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Welcome Tobias Harris

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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#21 » by gdog2004 » Sat Feb 9, 2019 12:45 pm

Get ready for 5 more years of Tobias Harris Philly. Not mad :)
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#22 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sat Feb 9, 2019 4:14 pm

I have yet to comment on this, but I think we hit the jackpot with him! What a smooth player, he has just improved so much over the years from the very first time I saw him play at UT till now. I can't believe he's on our team, and I honestly did not realize how much better he's gotten until watching him last night. Offensively he reminds me of Carmelo Anthony in his prime which is scary. I think a guy like Harris can put up 30 in his sleep if he was asked to do it. So much talent on this team right now, BB gonna have the challenge of making it flow.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#23 » by LloydFree » Sat Feb 9, 2019 4:38 pm

This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.

Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#24 » by SixthStreet » Sat Feb 9, 2019 5:30 pm

I watched some Clippers games I had on the DVR and last nights game and have come away impressed. There’s pretty much nothing he can’t do well on offense.

He’s a good rebounder who’s a grab and go forward, can shoot off the dribble and catch and shoot, score in the post, run an effective PnR, ISO, punish close outs and switches, and has instincts for cutting off ball. He’s a professional scorer. He’s also sneaky good on the offensive glass, especially when he’s got a smaller guy switched on him. He does all of this without being a ball stopper which is critical for this roster.

In the Clipper games I watched the only small complaint I had was he wasn’t high effort all the time. He definitely takes possessions off where he doesn’t do much off the ball. I think that’s why his raw scoring numbers were not as high as I’d expect for someone with his toolkit.

Impressed.


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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#25 » by Ben Simmons » Sat Feb 9, 2019 5:34 pm

also i think Harris will receive more open looks here than he did in LA :nod:
Ben Simmons wrote:Even if the Clippers don't have a star for him, he should sign with Clippers because they've got Jerry West so its very likely he'll get Kawhi a star at some point this year
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#26 » by FlyingArrow » Sat Feb 9, 2019 5:35 pm

LloydFree wrote:This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.

Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.


Depends on how much the owners are willing to spend. I think Butler gets max for 4 years instead of 5. And he'll take it instead of walking.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#27 » by Arsenal » Sat Feb 9, 2019 5:40 pm

LloydFree wrote:This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.

Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.


At this point we can't let Butler walk. Like someone else said, I say we go up to the 4 year MAX via Bird Rights, which is more than any other team can pay (8% annual raises from us versus 5% from anyone else).

I would still expect us to throw our entire midlevel this summer at a guy like Danny Green even after resigning Butler, Harris, and Redick via Bird Rights. I believe we can do that and still come in under the luxury tax line, which will be key.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#28 » by Kobblehead » Sat Feb 9, 2019 5:55 pm

I'd offer Jimmy 2 years, $60m.

Any longer than that, and we're willingly walking into term that will set us back as a franchise. Jimmy won't space for our homegrown stars, he's difficult to deal with, and he's going to deteriorate in his 30s. I honestly wouldn't mind him exiting the organization at the end of the year. And I don't dislike his game or impact. Dude is really really really good. Just not a fit in a lot of ways.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#29 » by Arsenal » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:05 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I'd offer Jimmy 2 years, $60m.

Any longer than that, and we're willingly walking into term that will set us back as a franchise. Jimmy won't space for our homegrown stars, he's difficult to deal with, and he's going to deteriorate in his 30s. I honestly wouldn't mind him exiting the organization at the end of the year. And I don't dislike his game or impact. Dude is really really really good. Just not a fit in a lot of ways.


There's no way he takes that and no way that is all the team offers. Just not happening.

Worst case we take the Blake approach. Resign him now then trade him for the best offer we get next year.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#30 » by LloydFree » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:06 pm

Arsenal wrote:
LloydFree wrote:This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.

Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.


At this point we can't let Butler walk. Like someone else said, I say we go up to the 4 year MAX via Bird Rights, which is more than any other team can pay (8% annual raises from us versus 5% from anyone else).

I would still expect us to throw our entire midlevel this summer at a guy like Danny Green even after resigning Butler, Harris, and Redick via Bird Rights. I believe we can do that and still come in under the luxury tax line, which will be key.

Interesting. Why not?
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#31 » by Arsenal » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:12 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
LloydFree wrote:This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.

Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.


At this point we can't let Butler walk. Like someone else said, I say we go up to the 4 year MAX via Bird Rights, which is more than any other team can pay (8% annual raises from us versus 5% from anyone else).

I would still expect us to throw our entire midlevel this summer at a guy like Danny Green even after resigning Butler, Harris, and Redick via Bird Rights. I believe we can do that and still come in under the luxury tax line, which will be key.

Interesting. Why not?


I mean we can, but I'd rather not. We're better off operating as an over the cap team this summer. In your scenario of letting him walk, we may have enough for Brogdan and Green, but we'd end up losing Redick also unless he agrees to come back for the minimum or the room exception for 1 year. He may do that but I wouldn't count on it. We'd also lose Bird rights to all our other free agents.

Obviously though, in negotiations with Jimmy we should leverage the threat of letting him walk to make him sign a more favorable deal.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#32 » by LloydFree » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:26 pm

Arsenal wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Interesting. Why not?


I mean we can, but I'd rather not. We're better off operating as an over the cap team this summer. In your scenario of letting him walk, we may have enough for Brogdan and Green, but we'd end up losing Redick also unless he agrees to come back for the minimum or the room exception for 1 year. He may do that but I wouldn't count on it. We'd also lose Bird rights to all our other free agents.

Obviously though, in negotiations with Jimmy we should leverage the threat of letting him walk to make him sign a more favorable deal.


No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#33 » by Arsenal » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:33 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Interesting. Why not?


I mean we can, but I'd rather not. We're better off operating as an over the cap team this summer. In your scenario of letting him walk, we may have enough for Brogdan and Green, but we'd end up losing Redick also unless he agrees to come back for the minimum or the room exception for 1 year. He may do that but I wouldn't count on it. We'd also lose Bird rights to all our other free agents.

Obviously though, in negotiations with Jimmy we should leverage the threat of letting him walk to make him sign a more favorable deal.


No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).


The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.

Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#34 » by ProcessDoctor » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:42 pm

Meh, I still think Jimmy gets at least a 4-year max offer from us.

Tobias might be the personality/player willing to take less than the max. He's an offensive stud, but because he's already been so open about liking it here and is the 4th-best talent IMO, I could see him taking less. Maybe 5-year, $150-160 mil with a PO instead of the $187 mil full max.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#35 » by Arsenal » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:45 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:Meh, I still think Jimmy gets at least a 4-year max offer from us.

Tobias might be the personality/player willing to take less than the max. He's an offensive stud, but because he's been so open about liking it here and the 4th-best talent, I could see him losing some leverage. I could see 5-year, $150-160 mil with a PO instead of the $187 mil full max.


I'm happy with 5/$150M for Tobias assuming there is no player option. Declining or flat would be good too considering we're going to have luxury tax issues to contend with after Ben's MAX extension kicks in.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#36 » by LloydFree » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:45 pm

Arsenal wrote:
LloydFree wrote:[
No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).


The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.

Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.


The 76ers wouldn't necessarily be over the tax next year, but they would be paying exorbitant tax bills the following 4 years in row. That's dumb and it's poor planning, with no way of improving and no guarantee that this is a Championship team. You don't put together a team and lock yourself into 140 million in salary to 4 players for 4 years. Jimmy would instantly become un-trade-able. And then there is no way to significantly improve going forward.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#37 » by Sixerscan » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:50 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
LloydFree wrote:[
No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).


The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.

Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.


The 76ers wouldn't necessarily be over the tax next year, but they would be paying exorbitant tax bills the following 4 years in row. That's dumb and it's poor planning, with no way of improving and no guarantee that this is a Championship team. You don't put together a team and lock yourself into 140 million in salary to 4 players for 4 years. Jimmy would instantly become un-trade-able. And then there is no way to significantly improve going forward.


Like 5 teams would offer Jimmy 4/140 this summer. It's not untradeable. You could probably get more for him than the Clippers got for Blake.

All of the other projected top teams in the league are going to be in the tax next year. It's part of the deal. The Sixers will not win a championship if they are not committed to paying the luxury tax more often than not over the next 5 years.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#38 » by ProcessDoctor » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:50 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
LloydFree wrote:[
No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).


The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.

Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.


The 76ers wouldn't necessarily be over the tax next year, but they would be paying exorbitant tax bills the following 4 years in row. That's dumb and it's poor planning, with no way of improving and no guarantee that this is a Championship team. You don't put together a team and lock yourself into 140 million in salary to 4 players for 4 years. Jimmy would instantly become un-trade-able. And then there is no way to significantly improve going forward.


Not sure why you're assuming Butler's production is going to fall off a cliff. He's a very skilled, high IQ player that doesn't rely too much on athleticism. He will still be a very effective player at 33-34. Think Paul Pierce pre-Brooklyn.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#39 » by Arsenal » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:54 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.

Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.


The 76ers wouldn't necessarily be over the tax next year, but they would be paying exorbitant tax bills the following 4 years in row. That's dumb and it's poor planning, with no way of improving and no guarantee that this is a Championship team. You don't put together a team and lock yourself into 140 million in salary to 4 players for 4 years. Jimmy would instantly become un-trade-able. And then there is no way to significantly improve going forward.


Like 5 teams would offer Jimmy 4/140 this summer. It's not untradeable. You could probably get more for him than the Clippers got for Blake.

All of the other projected top teams in the league are going to be in the tax next year. It's part of the deal. The Sixers will not win a championship if they are not committed to paying the luxury tax more often than not over the next 5 years.


This. Worst case we can just trade Butler next year like the Clippers did with Blake. There will be a market for him. We're better off doing that than letting him walk.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#40 » by Kobblehead » Sat Feb 9, 2019 6:59 pm

Arsenal wrote:There's no way he takes that and no way that is all the team offers. Just not happening.

Worst case we take the Blake approach. Resign him now then trade him for the best offer we get next year.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if my offer pissed him off and sent him to the open market.

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