Re: Welcome Tobias Harris
Posted: Sat Feb 9, 2019 12:45 pm
Get ready for 5 more years of Tobias Harris Philly. Not mad
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LloydFree wrote:This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.
Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.
LloydFree wrote:This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.
Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.
Kobblehead wrote:I'd offer Jimmy 2 years, $60m.
Any longer than that, and we're willingly walking into term that will set us back as a franchise. Jimmy won't space for our homegrown stars, he's difficult to deal with, and he's going to deteriorate in his 30s. I honestly wouldn't mind him exiting the organization at the end of the year. And I don't dislike his game or impact. Dude is really really really good. Just not a fit in a lot of ways.
Arsenal wrote:LloydFree wrote:This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.
Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.
At this point we can't let Butler walk. Like someone else said, I say we go up to the 4 year MAX via Bird Rights, which is more than any other team can pay (8% annual raises from us versus 5% from anyone else).
I would still expect us to throw our entire midlevel this summer at a guy like Danny Green even after resigning Butler, Harris, and Redick via Bird Rights. I believe we can do that and still come in under the luxury tax line, which will be key.
LloydFree wrote:Arsenal wrote:LloydFree wrote:This Tobias Harris acquisition just ended any chance Jimmy Butler had at getting 35 million per year from the 76ers. Elton Brand is saying all the right things, but there is no chance on Earth the 76ers are going to pay 4 players 30+ million each for the next 5 years.
Unless the 76ers win the Championship, Im going to predict the 76ers will make offers to Malcolm Brogden and/or Danny Green with Butler's money in the off-season. They'll over pay Tobias Harris to keep him, because he's the better fit.
At this point we can't let Butler walk. Like someone else said, I say we go up to the 4 year MAX via Bird Rights, which is more than any other team can pay (8% annual raises from us versus 5% from anyone else).
I would still expect us to throw our entire midlevel this summer at a guy like Danny Green even after resigning Butler, Harris, and Redick via Bird Rights. I believe we can do that and still come in under the luxury tax line, which will be key.
Interesting. Why not?
Arsenal wrote:LloydFree wrote:Interesting. Why not?
I mean we can, but I'd rather not. We're better off operating as an over the cap team this summer. In your scenario of letting him walk, we may have enough for Brogdan and Green, but we'd end up losing Redick also unless he agrees to come back for the minimum or the room exception for 1 year. He may do that but I wouldn't count on it. We'd also lose Bird rights to all our other free agents.
Obviously though, in negotiations with Jimmy we should leverage the threat of letting him walk to make him sign a more favorable deal.
LloydFree wrote:Arsenal wrote:LloydFree wrote:Interesting. Why not?
I mean we can, but I'd rather not. We're better off operating as an over the cap team this summer. In your scenario of letting him walk, we may have enough for Brogdan and Green, but we'd end up losing Redick also unless he agrees to come back for the minimum or the room exception for 1 year. He may do that but I wouldn't count on it. We'd also lose Bird rights to all our other free agents.
Obviously though, in negotiations with Jimmy we should leverage the threat of letting him walk to make him sign a more favorable deal.
No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).
ProcessDoctor wrote:Meh, I still think Jimmy gets at least a 4-year max offer from us.
Tobias might be the personality/player willing to take less than the max. He's an offensive stud, but because he's been so open about liking it here and the 4th-best talent, I could see him losing some leverage. I could see 5-year, $150-160 mil with a PO instead of the $187 mil full max.
Arsenal wrote:LloydFree wrote:[
No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).
The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.
Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.
LloydFree wrote:Arsenal wrote:LloydFree wrote:[
No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).
The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.
Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.
The 76ers wouldn't necessarily be over the tax next year, but they would be paying exorbitant tax bills the following 4 years in row. That's dumb and it's poor planning, with no way of improving and no guarantee that this is a Championship team. You don't put together a team and lock yourself into 140 million in salary to 4 players for 4 years. Jimmy would instantly become un-trade-able. And then there is no way to significantly improve going forward.
LloydFree wrote:Arsenal wrote:LloydFree wrote:[
No we wouldn't. That's where moving that bum Fultz helps. When they decline Jonatan Simmons' Option, they'll only have about 62 million in salary committed for next year. Tobias Harris' cap hold is only 22 million. If you just re-sign Redick for 2 years 20-22 million you'd still have over 15 million in cap space, the minute you renounce Butler to sign his replacement (Brogdon or Green).
The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.
Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.
The 76ers wouldn't necessarily be over the tax next year, but they would be paying exorbitant tax bills the following 4 years in row. That's dumb and it's poor planning, with no way of improving and no guarantee that this is a Championship team. You don't put together a team and lock yourself into 140 million in salary to 4 players for 4 years. Jimmy would instantly become un-trade-able. And then there is no way to significantly improve going forward.
Sixerscan wrote:LloydFree wrote:Arsenal wrote:
The only thing accomplished here is saving our owners' money. You're basically trading Butler + whoever we can get for the full midlevel + whoever we get for the lowlevel for Brogdon + whoever we get for the room exception.
Since we can keep Butler and Harris and Redick next year and still not go over the luxury tax line, that's what we need to do if we're seriously trying to contend.
The 76ers wouldn't necessarily be over the tax next year, but they would be paying exorbitant tax bills the following 4 years in row. That's dumb and it's poor planning, with no way of improving and no guarantee that this is a Championship team. You don't put together a team and lock yourself into 140 million in salary to 4 players for 4 years. Jimmy would instantly become un-trade-able. And then there is no way to significantly improve going forward.
Like 5 teams would offer Jimmy 4/140 this summer. It's not untradeable. You could probably get more for him than the Clippers got for Blake.
All of the other projected top teams in the league are going to be in the tax next year. It's part of the deal. The Sixers will not win a championship if they are not committed to paying the luxury tax more often than not over the next 5 years.
Arsenal wrote:There's no way he takes that and no way that is all the team offers. Just not happening.
Worst case we take the Blake approach. Resign him now then trade him for the best offer we get next year.