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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:07 am
by youngcrev
phifans wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
phifans wrote:Which alternative will you choose if we say , you could get Marcus Morris , Patrick Beverley and ED Davis with the money you hand to Tobi ?

I mean I'm all for go all in chasing star players but the problem is ... Tobi is not the "star" we are talking about ... if he wants max let those mediocre team make it and he'll be a decent 2nd choice for a non-playoff team.


That's not how it works. Not signing Harris is worth $22 million in cap space, regardless of what you sign him for. Also means you can't go over the cap to sign Redick or Scott or use the MLE

Harris + Redick + Scott +MLE > $22 million in cap space + room exception


JJ Redick would certainly cost a lot less than his cap hold so you may have like $30 million cap space with resigning Redick first . Losing MLE hurts a little bit but you could get three solid rotation guys with the money you retain Tobi so it won't be that matters.


You're pretty far off on your cap projections. You'd have 29.2M in cap space if you renounced everyone but Butler. So it would be more like 20M after re-signing JJ.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:18 pm
by NoDopeOnSundays
phifans wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
phifans wrote:Which alternative will you choose if we say , you could get Marcus Morris , Patrick Beverley and ED Davis with the money you hand to Tobi ?

I mean I'm all for go all in chasing star players but the problem is ... Tobi is not the "star" we are talking about ... if he wants max let those mediocre team make it and he'll be a decent 2nd choice for a non-playoff team.




All of those guys are 30 and up (At least when next season starts), not sure why you'd want to build a team like that.


It's better to have a star like Harris and build the bench the next couple of seasons through draft picks and getting good deals on undervalued players who are between 25-28 right now.


All those guys are on the same pace on age with Jimmy Butler. Would you prefer retain Tobi over Jimmy ?

We have one of the youngest core pieces in this league I don't know whats the problem on surrounding them with some older/more experienced vets as long as they are useful.

And again I'm not against go for real star players. But for Tobi ... he is a fake star at most to me and he wants star money. Those are the type of guys a contender usually try their best to avoid.



You can retain both, there's no reason to get rid of Harris for a platoon of decent role players when you can just spend the next few years developing younger players to fill in those roles, or signing undervalued guys. Harris is a nice bridge between Butler and Embiid/Simmons because he's still just 26 years old. There's nothing wrong with getting more experienced players, but not at the expense of an all-star caliber player.

Harris is overqualified to be the 4th option but he's also a great insurance plan if Butler regresses as he gets older, and his game does fit with Embiid and Simmons. Considering all you gave up to get him I'm not sure why you'd want Morris/Beverly over him, especially when you'll get a full training camp for him and Butler. You have to run it back, KD being out next year and how close you were with the Raptors....why break up the team?

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:20 pm
by phillynative
Will he play for team USA if hes chosen?

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:23 am
by FlyingArrow
Considering what we gave up for Tobias, if we don't re-sign him, it's almost a fireable offense all by itself.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:02 am
by PhilasFinest
FlyingArrow wrote:Considering what we gave up for Tobias, if we don't re-sign him, it's almost a fireable offense all by itself.


Oh cmon man.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:17 am
by FlyingArrow
You can debate whether several years of Tobias is worth what we gave up for him. But giving up all that for a few months of Tobias would be worse than the trade up to draft Fultz.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:38 am
by Foshan
FlyingArrow wrote:You can debate whether several years of Tobias is worth what we gave up for him. But giving up all that for a few months of Tobias would be worse than the trade up to draft Fultz.

There is a point at which all trades are gambles. GM's who make bad gambles and fail usually get fired. That said, looking at the 'what could have been' I just don't see Brand taking much blow back from the Harris deal. In hindsight, he was right, this was the year to cash in trade chips and try to win it all. And, quite frankly, it looks like next year might be a similar window (Durant/Klay injured), superstars shuffling teams. If Brand can 'run it back' I think that buys him time and makes it look less a mistake.

Now if we lose everyone and are left in a rebuild or what do we do phase, he probably takes all the blame.

Personally, I run it back, whatever the cost. If we can't win it next year (I really think we could be a favourite), then I think we look to move Bulter/Harris the following year (while they still have a couple years left), I think there could be positive return there. (Similar to how Boston moved on from its big 3 as they aged, though obviously with no King around, we won't get as good a return).

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:53 am
by Kova
If he is looking to go, we need to make it a s&t scenario. Can't lose him for nothing after all we gave up for him.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:24 am
by nurseryc
Happy to let him walk tbh

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:38 am
by sixers4real
nurseryc wrote:Happy to let him walk tbh

Why? We do not have money to replace him.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:06 pm
by rzzzzz
FlyingArrow wrote:You can debate whether several years of Tobias is worth what we gave up for him. But giving up all that for a few months of Tobias would be worse than the trade up to draft Fultz.


c'mon. look at the gamble Ujiri made. was that short term foolishness? (supposedly DC has made him an offer of $10 million a year plus stock to come and breathe life into the Wiz.) and we were a couple of flu bugs and 4 bounces on the rim away from taking on the Bucks, who we matched up a whole lot better with than facing the Raptors. and we would have killed GSW in the post. Elton chose going for it all over playing it safe. all power to him for having the guts.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:39 pm
by 76ciology
I dont mind taking risks if the reward is high. And I hate when a fanbase criticizes a team whenever a gamble didnt pay off. This is one of the reason why teams stay mediocre, when they asks a team to play safe and dont take risks.

Tobias, Mike Scott and Bobi were a great return to the MLE to future MLE type players we gave up.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:40 pm
by FlyingArrow
Toronto didn't take nearly as much of a gamble. They knew what they had and they knew it wasn't ever going to add up to a championship. They didn't sell their future to go for it for one year - they just gave up on their past (which had already played out anyway).

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:41 pm
by 76ciology
...and btw with Klay and KD most likely not being able to play next season were a win for the Jimmy and Tobi deals. Suddenly, Jimmy and Tobi are one of the top FAs out there and we have every advantage to sign them.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:43 pm
by Negrodamus
76ciology wrote:...and btw with Klay and KD most likely not being able to play next season were a win for the Jimmy and Tobi deals. Suddenly, Jimmy and Tobi are one of the top FAs out there and we have every advantage to sign them.


However, it could motivate the Nets to throw the max at him and ditch the Durant plan. If I read it correctly, they'd need to shed salary to get Kyrie, Durant, and Harris.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:03 pm
by Sixerscan
Negrodamus wrote:
76ciology wrote:...and btw with Klay and KD most likely not being able to play next season were a win for the Jimmy and Tobi deals. Suddenly, Jimmy and Tobi are one of the top FAs out there and we have every advantage to sign them.


However, it could motivate the Nets to throw the max at him and ditch the Durant plan. If I read it correctly, they'd need to shed salary to get Kyrie, Durant, and Harris.


Harris and Butler are already gonna get 4 year max offers. They can be as motivated as they want, unless they can figure out a way to offer more money I'm not sure how much it really matters.

Guys like Brogdon or Gasol or Horford or even Redick are the guys that could see money open up for.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:07 pm
by the_process
IMO the debate is over in the FO. Both Tobias and Jimmy are getting their 5 year maxes and any repercussions will be worried about later.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:00 pm
by FlyingArrow
the_process wrote:IMO the debate is over in the FO. Both Tobias and Jimmy are getting their 5 year maxes and any repercussions will be worried about later.


I think you're right. I hope both say yes.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:16 am
by the_process
FlyingArrow wrote:
the_process wrote:IMO the debate is over in the FO. Both Tobias and Jimmy are getting their 5 year maxes and any repercussions will be worried about later.


I think you're right. I hope both say yes.


Jimmy has always wanted the really big money. And there’s no way that Tobias can ever make up the 49M he’d be leaving on the table because he’s not an auto max guy, he’s just benefitting from the situation.

Re: Welcome Tobias Harris

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:44 pm
by Black Mage
Did Tobias play up to expectations? No.

But he still gave us a Top 4 that allowed the rest of the guys to get easier looks and forced opposing teams to play us honest without having any place to "hide" a weak defender. That has value and I'm willing to bet his shooting numbers stabilize.

The only reason this team struggled in the playoffs was because we didn't have a backup center and we lacked depth. There's no reason this can't be appropriately corrected while running it all back and using our draft picks wisely to provide second unit depth.