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Welcome Tobias Harris

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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#81 » by Kobblehead » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:38 pm

the_process wrote:Don't forget that this was a guy having a career year for the Clips... and they had zero interest in re-signing him. Zero.


It's not like he's a guy they didn't want to retain.

They tried to get him on a 4 year, $20m per year contract just 7 months ago.

They just wanted to clear the decks for superstars.

If they get Kawhi but nobody else, there's no doubt in my mind that Jerry West would feel a little regret about not having Tobias on a max in L.A.

He just thinks it's worth it to roll the dice on getting another bonafide star to join Kawhi.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#82 » by youngcrev » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:44 pm

the_process wrote:
NBA Moses wrote:Dodged a bullet with LA strong arming 34 y.o. Lebron from us in the summer. You can see he's starting to breakdown/slowdown leaving the unlikely opportunity of Sixers trading for 26 y.o. Tobias Harris heading into prime of his career.

This guy looks like Grant friggin Hill. And you still have these radio mouthbreathers on WIP + 97.5 whining about giving up a pick and Shamet. :banghead: :banghead:


Woah there nelley. Just because Harris has looked better with more room to operate surrounded by stars doesn't forgive the Sixers for overpaying. Don't forget that this was a guy having a career year for the Clips... and they had zero interest in re-signing him. Zero.

That being said, he does look improved just by being surrounded with better talent. And he obviously fits very well.


I think if they had zero interest in re-signing him, it wouldn't of cost so much to get him. They've clearly got their eyes set on bigger fish, but if that didn't work out I'm sure they would of loved to have him back. I agree that it felt like a definite overpay (particularly compared to some of the other deals made), but there's no indication they could of gotten him for less.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#83 » by Samson » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:40 pm

As far as "over-paying" and whether we made a good deal-

I would suggest, it's much better to have given up -- perhaps -- extra draft picks and the idea of sacrificing future draft capital in a pick or two "too much" in order to acquire Tobias Harris, a 'boderline AllStar' and potential 4-5 year AllStar, Championship-lineup caliber starting player whom slots into a position of our greatest need and is perhaps the absolutely ideal complimentary player to the other 4 starters <----> than it would have been to "overpay" for say Anthony Davis, and give up Ben Simmons, Markelle Fultz, perhaps Zhaire Smith AND 4 future 1st round picks .... and we get a "Super SuperStar" who doesn't want to be on our team, tries to get out as soon as possible, and in a year or two we're down to Joel and that's it....

whereas, yes, we gave up valuable capital to get Tobias Harris, no one will deny -- but we gave up REASONABLE ASSETS in a REASONABLE TRADE for a REASONABLY CERTAIN Long-Term All_Star at our position of greatest need and with an absolutely perfect combination of size, skill-set, talent, & athleticism in comparison with and with compliments to our lineup.


In my humble opinion, "it takes money to make money" .... I said it before and I'll say it again ... You can't fleece everyone every time. We didn't pull off a trade of Markelle Fultz for Anthony Davis + an unprotected 1st round pick. That was unlikely. We did however make a very fair trade with *outstanding* long-term potential.

5+ years of Joel Embiid, Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, Ben Simmons, with Zhaire Smith yet to be set loose on the league and the possibly of JJ Redick sticking around to form a dynastic superteam of our own... To paraphrase the OOmpa LOOmpas, I like the looks of it!
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#84 » by HotelVitale » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:17 pm

youngcrev wrote:
the_process wrote:
NBA Moses wrote:Dodged a bullet with LA strong arming 34 y.o. Lebron from us in the summer. You can see he's starting to breakdown/slowdown leaving the unlikely opportunity of Sixers trading for 26 y.o. Tobias Harris heading into prime of his career.
Woah there nelley. Just because Harris has looked better with more room to operate surrounded by stars doesn't forgive the Sixers for overpaying. Don't forget that this was a guy having a career year for the Clips... and they had zero interest in re-signing him. Zero. hat being said, he does look improved just by being surrounded with better talent. And he obviously fits very well.
I think if they had zero interest in re-signing him, it wouldn't of cost so much to get him. They've clearly got their eyes set on bigger fish, but if that didn't work out I'm sure they would of loved to have him back. I agree that it felt like a definite overpay (particularly compared to some of the other deals made), but there's no indication they could of gotten him for less.

I think you all are asking the wrong question--it's not about how much they planned to re-sign him but rather about how motivated they were to move him now, and it seems pretty obvious that the Clippers needed serious convincing to let him go. They're not trying to tank this season away, for one, and maybe the thought is that a run to the playoffs helps convince big time FAs that the team's not a joke or anything. Also, while they're clearly prioritizing signing superstar FAs (as anyone would has a realistic shot at one), having Harris' bird and 5-year max rights was a solid backup plan in the (very possible) event that Kawhi, KD, Klay, and others end up staying where they're at or moving somewhere else.

It's clear that Harris wasn't available in the same way that, say Mirotic or even M Gasol was. Those guys were both expiring contracts on bad teams that were packing up this season and planning on a rebuild, hence they were available to the highest bidder. Harris wasn't in that boat, and I think the Clippers would've been happy to hang on for less than a strong offer. (Though maybe they could've kept Shamet or something, who knows.)
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#85 » by Wilfried » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:18 pm

I really think Tobias' playmaking and decisionmaking is underrated.

Offensively he seems the total package of a modern hybrid forward
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#86 » by LloydFree » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:41 pm

the_process wrote:
NBA Moses wrote:Dodged a bullet with LA strong arming 34 y.o. Lebron from us in the summer. You can see he's starting to breakdown/slowdown leaving the unlikely opportunity of Sixers trading for 26 y.o. Tobias Harris heading into prime of his career.

This guy looks like Grant friggin Hill. And you still have these radio mouthbreathers on WIP + 97.5 whining about giving up a pick and Shamet. :banghead: :banghead:


Woah there nelley. Just because Harris has looked better with more room to operate surrounded by stars doesn't forgive the Sixers for overpaying. Don't forget that this was a guy having a career year for the Clips... and they had zero interest in re-signing him. Zero.

That being said, he does look improved just by being surrounded with better talent. And he obviously fits very well.

Overpay? The 76ers turned Mikal Bridges, Landry Shamet and Kyri Thomas into Tobias Harris, Mike Scott and Boban.

Crying about a 2021 pick that's likely to be a late lottery pick, at best, over a chance to win a championship seems like missing the forest for the trees.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#87 » by FlightBrothers » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:19 pm

Woah there nelley. Just because Harris has looked better with more room to operate surrounded by stars doesn't forgive the Sixers for overpaying. Don't forget that this was a guy having a career year for the Clips... and they had zero interest in re-signing him. Zero.

That being said, he does look improved just by being surrounded with better talent. And he obviously fits very well.[/quote]


That is just flat out not true. He was offered a contract, a big one too by the Clippers, they just wanted to keep the space open as an added benefit to bring in a top 5 player (Kawhi) allowing that player a luxury to bring with him a "friend"

Tobias was probably the Clippers plan B so we had to overpay to alter that thinking.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#88 » by rzzzzz » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:51 pm

hard to imagine too many guys better suited to opening things up for Embiid in the paint. anything that makes Embiid even more dominant than he already is makes us that much more of a contender.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#89 » by kuclas » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:35 pm

Think sixers hedge their bets. If butler wants. They retain Harris. So in the end. I’d rather have Harris due to him being 3 years younger and less “known” knee problems. Sure losing butler would hurt. But Covington and Saric were replaceable anyways.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#90 » by USWAY » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:22 pm

kuclas wrote:Think sixers hedge their bets. If butler wants. They retain Harris. So in the end. I’d rather have Harris due to him being 3 years younger and less “known” knee problems. Sure losing butler would hurt. But Covington and Saric were replaceable anyways.

Pretty much this. Cov on that contract was awesome, but Saric is definitely someone you wanted to move on from eventually. If Jimmy doesn't sign you get $30m more in cap room to fill the team out around Jojo, Ben, and Tobias.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#91 » by LloydFree » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:31 pm

USWAY wrote:
kuclas wrote:Think sixers hedge their bets. If butler wants. They retain Harris. So in the end. I’d rather have Harris due to him being 3 years younger and less “known” knee problems. Sure losing butler would hurt. But Covington and Saric were replaceable anyways.

Pretty much this. Cov on that contract was awesome, but Saric is definitely someone you wanted to move on from eventually. If Jimmy doesn't sign you get $30m more in cap room to fill the team out around Jojo, Ben, and Tobias.

I think the only way they can get to 30 million if Jimmy leaves is to renounce Redick. Redick's cap hold is 20 million. I don't think they want to renounce Redick and if they sign him, they cut into the 30 million.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#92 » by FlyingArrow » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 pm

USWAY wrote:
kuclas wrote:Think sixers hedge their bets. If butler wants. They retain Harris. So in the end. I’d rather have Harris due to him being 3 years younger and less “known” knee problems. Sure losing butler would hurt. But Covington and Saric were replaceable anyways.

Pretty much this. Cov on that contract was awesome, but Saric is definitely someone you wanted to move on from eventually. If Jimmy doesn't sign you get $30m more in cap room to fill the team out around Jojo, Ben, and Tobias.


If Jimmy does sign, you can re-sign all the other free agents and go over the cap. A much better result that way.

I hope we keep Tobias, Butler, Boban, JJ, and TJ. And hopefully at least one of JSimmons, Ennis, and Mike Scott works in this system and is worth re-signing, too. If we can sign all of those guys without using an exception, we should be in good shape next year.

If Butler walks, our options are
* try to sign a max player (long shot) and then sign JJ as an exception (if he'll take it)
* try to sign JJ and one other "pretty good" player using cap space, then get a third one as an exception

In either case, we'll have to renounce all other free agents and our bench is going to be worse than this year. Unless the bench improves via internal growth (Zhaire/Bolden take a step forward and/or we strike gold in the draft).
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#93 » by FlyingArrow » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:36 pm

I'm not convinced that Tobias is our 4th best player. Time will tell, of course, but after 2 games, he's #2 after Embiid. Then again - if we're winning does it really matter?
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#94 » by Winejk » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:01 pm

LloydFree wrote:
the_process wrote:
NBA Moses wrote:Dodged a bullet with LA strong arming 34 y.o. Lebron from us in the summer. You can see he's starting to breakdown/slowdown leaving the unlikely opportunity of Sixers trading for 26 y.o. Tobias Harris heading into prime of his career.

This guy looks like Grant friggin Hill. And you still have these radio mouthbreathers on WIP + 97.5 whining about giving up a pick and Shamet. :banghead: :banghead:


Woah there nelley. Just because Harris has looked better with more room to operate surrounded by stars doesn't forgive the Sixers for overpaying. Don't forget that this was a guy having a career year for the Clips... and they had zero interest in re-signing him. Zero.

That being said, he does look improved just by being surrounded with better talent. And he obviously fits very well.

Overpay? The 76ers turned Mikal Bridges, Landry Shamet and Kyri Thomas into Tobias Harris, Mike Scott and Boban.

Crying about a 2021 pick that's likely to be a late lottery pick, at best, over a chance to win a championship seems like missing the forest for the trees.



Here's another way to look at it.

If we look at it in aggregate, we upgraded from Roco to Butler and Saric to Tobias. Then we shuffled some bench players. And all we had to give up were Shamet and some draft picks - Philly 1rst, Miami 2021 1rst and two Detroit 2nds.

Roco ---------> Butler
Saric ---------> Tobias
Chandler ----> Boban
Muscala -----> Scott

Shamet
Philly 1rst
2021 Miami 1rst
two Detroit 2nd round picks

Granted Butler and Tobias are UFA at the end of the season, but going from Roco/Saric to one top 15-20 player and another top 25-30 player while basically giving up a bench player, two 1rsts and two 2nds is pretty impressive.

The main thing is the trades are paying immediate dividends. Philly looks like a legit contender with these new players.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#95 » by bondom34 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:45 pm

Not sure what thread this fits in but Brand is awesome:

https://theathletic.com/813759/2019/02/12/sixers-take-a-desperate-but-calculated-risk-to-give-the-people-what-they-want/

Brand usually spends the first half of home games at Wells Fargo Center seated amongst media members and advance scouts in the lower bowl behind the basket closest to the visitors’ bench. The seat choice presents Brand as one of the league’s most accessible executives. It’s rather routine for fans to stop by, shake hands with or chat with the man who is running the show only three years after he snared his last board for the 76ers.

Dugan was too far away to make his request face-to-face with Brand, but knew he was close enough for his screams to reach him, so he spent the rest of the half playfully shouting his demands in Brand’s direction. If the 76ers couldn’t get Davis, Dugan suggested they pluck other pieces from the New Orleans Pelicans roster, like Nikola Mirotic. After the Raptors grabbed another carom off the offensive glass, Dugan checked his cellphone for Mirotic’s stats and told Brand, “Mirotic averages eight rebounds!”

Looking somewhat annoyed, Brand glanced up at Dugan, gave him one of those phony, picture-taking grins and nodded, hoping the guy would go back to being quiet. Which he did. But as the second quarter neared its conclusion, Brand stood up and started buttoning his suit jacket to watch the rest of the game elsewhere.

“Make a move, Elton,” Dugan shouted.

“I got you,” Brand shouted back and walked through a tunnel toward the back
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#96 » by Bum Adebayo » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:06 pm

FlyingArrow wrote:I'm not convinced that Tobias is our 4th best player. Time will tell, of course, but after 2 games, he's #2 after Embiid. Then again - if we're winning does it really matter?


Tobias is better than Butler. So this would mean he is our 3rd best player, behind Simmons and Embiid.
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#97 » by notericjr » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:04 am

FlyingArrow wrote:I'm not convinced that Tobias is our 4th best player. Time will tell, of course, but after 2 games, he's #2 after Embiid. Then again - if we're winning does it really matter?

he could be 4th, but he could also be 2nd best

best part about this whole thing is that even if one of our top guys has a off game, we've now got so much firepower that it doesn't matter anymore
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#98 » by AirP. » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:30 am

Here's an old story from 2015 on Tobias Harris and how he statistically was one of the better forwards (the author uses Versatile Forward) in the game at the time, so he's not just become good in the last year or 2, he's just getting more opportunities and recognition.

Hiding Among the Game’s Elite

Let’s see which NBA forwards have produced like a superstar VF this season. The elite VFs must be able to score and rebound. They must also be able to shoot 3s. This season, only six players averaged at least 15 points and 6 rebounds per game, while also shooting 35% (on at least two 3-point attempts per game). Only six VFs met these minimum requirements. They were Love, Millsap, Bosh, Durant, LeBron, and our mystery man.

Who might be missing? This grossly undervalued NBA player is not only among the NBA’s elite VFs, but also the youngest by four years to make the list.

This player is only the 4th player in the last five seasons to meet the minimum requirements outlined above while still 22 years old or younger. The others were Love, Durant and George.

The NBA’s most underrated player is Tobias Harris.


The numbers suggest that Tobias Harris is one of the better VFs in the NBA today. Statistically, he stands among some of the game’s biggest stars. He is only 22 years old and has been praised for his character and work ethic. Harris is certain to improve on his already first-class ability. Tobias Harris is the most underrated player in the NBA, but it won’t be long before he gets the credit he deserves.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2015/05/06/the-nbas-most-underrated-player/

Also, another story I just saw from 2015 by Zach Lowe wrote a story on Tobias Harris he called... The Good, the Bad, and the Tobias
Kick him the ball against a scrambled defense and Harris is deadly. He’s also a quick decision-maker. He has the reputation of a ball-stopper, but Harris mostly keeps the offense moving. He’s not Carmelo Anthony, stalling out the offense with endless jab steps, and that bodes well for his ability to fit in a modern NBA offense:

That’s in part up to Harris. He has his warts, but look closely, and you can see the profile of a player who could flourish in the modern NBA. The Magic were smart to wager on that upside. Now they and Harris must work together to bring it out.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-good-the-bad-and-the-tobias/
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#99 » by phifans » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:11 am

Do we have a chance to take Klay Thompson while keep Tobias and Jimmy ?
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Re: Welcome Tobias Harris 

Post#100 » by BullyKing » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:28 am

phifans wrote:Do we have a chance to take Klay Thompson while keep Tobias and Jimmy ?


No problem. Just need a double max sign and trade of him and Boban.
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