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Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath

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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#261 » by sodmoraes » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:09 pm

I would rather have fultz than Simmons, even if he doesnt regain his 3 pt ball. Simmons ceiling may be way higher, but is very unlikely he will ever reach it. I´m tired of having a pg without pg skills. Simmons, even if he starts shooting like a normal person( big if), can´t act like a real pg: he can´t break a defense in the halfcourt and find an easy shot for other players. Fultz can break the defense, and his shot is improving.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#262 » by XtremeDunkz » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:11 pm

sodmoraes wrote:I would rather have fultz than Simmons, even if he doesnt regain his 3 pt ball. Simmons ceiling may be way higher, but is very unlikely he will ever reach it. I´m tired of having a pg without pg skills. Simmons, even if he starts shooting like a normal person( big if), can´t act like a real pg: he can´t break a defense in the halfcourt and find an easy shot for other players. Fultz can break the defense, and his shot is improving.
I agree, but I also don't blame the team for cutting ties with him. Fultz was a nutcase here.

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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#263 » by CastorRay » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:00 pm

Wow what an indictment on Brett Brown. I hope ownership is paying attention to this players just seem to never get any better under Browns leader ship
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#264 » by JojoSlimbiid » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:09 pm

CastorRay wrote:Wow what an indictment on Brett Brown. I hope ownership is paying attention to this players just seem to never get any better under Browns leader ship



This is true is some respects but in Fultz specific case nah. The majority of the blame should really fall to the folks that advised him to switch up his shooting motion so drastically. He deserves some blame as well for over indexing on repetition of bad mechanics so much so that it seemed to have caused him pain but those same trainers just got him drafted #1. Outside of that how do you blame anyone else really?

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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#265 » by kuclas » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:22 pm

sodmoraes wrote:I would rather have fultz than Simmons, even if he doesnt regain his 3 pt ball. Simmons ceiling may be way higher, but is very unlikely he will ever reach it. I´m tired of having a pg without pg skills. Simmons, even if he starts shooting like a normal person( big if), can´t act like a real pg: he can´t break a defense in the halfcourt and find an easy shot for other players. Fultz can break the defense, and his shot is improving.


Problem is fultz would really need to play 20-25 minutes a game to get into game flow. And they tried it philly.

But with simmons playing 35-37 minutes. That only leaves 10-12 minute at the point guard.

Both are not catch and shoot guys.

Not compatible.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#266 » by agiaco » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:46 pm

kuclas wrote:
sodmoraes wrote:I would rather have fultz than Simmons, even if he doesnt regain his 3 pt ball. Simmons ceiling may be way higher, but is very unlikely he will ever reach it. I´m tired of having a pg without pg skills. Simmons, even if he starts shooting like a normal person( big if), can´t act like a real pg: he can´t break a defense in the halfcourt and find an easy shot for other players. Fultz can break the defense, and his shot is improving.


Problem is fultz would really need to play 20-25 minutes a game to get into game flow. And they tried it philly.

But with simmons playing 35-37 minutes. That only leaves 10-12 minute at the point guard.

Both are not catch and shoot guys.

Not compatible.


Yeah Fultz is too similar to Simmons in that he can't shoot well. It doesn't help to have him stepping in behind Simmons. It's unfortunate things did not work out.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#267 » by Kobblehead » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:01 pm

If Wade and James can play together, any skillsets can make it work.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#268 » by KL78192020 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:29 pm

sodmoraes wrote:I would rather have fultz than Simmons, even if he doesnt regain his 3 pt ball. Simmons ceiling may be way higher, but is very unlikely he will ever reach it. I´m tired of having a pg without pg skills. Simmons, even if he starts shooting like a normal person( big if), can´t act like a real pg: he can´t break a defense in the halfcourt and find an easy shot for other players. Fultz can break the defense, and his shot is improving.


Fultz could end up bet than Simmons. Simmons has zero improvement in his shot, Fultz is actually improving considering hes missed 2 years with injury.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#269 » by phifans » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:40 pm

agiaco wrote:
kuclas wrote:
sodmoraes wrote:I would rather have fultz than Simmons, even if he doesnt regain his 3 pt ball. Simmons ceiling may be way higher, but is very unlikely he will ever reach it. I´m tired of having a pg without pg skills. Simmons, even if he starts shooting like a normal person( big if), can´t act like a real pg: he can´t break a defense in the halfcourt and find an easy shot for other players. Fultz can break the defense, and his shot is improving.


Problem is fultz would really need to play 20-25 minutes a game to get into game flow. And they tried it philly.

But with simmons playing 35-37 minutes. That only leaves 10-12 minute at the point guard.

Both are not catch and shoot guys.

Not compatible.


Yeah Fultz is too similar to Simmons in that he can't shoot well. It doesn't help to have him stepping in behind Simmons. It's unfortunate things did not work out.


Can't shoot is the only similarity they have.

Markelle is always a vocal point guard and Ben has no real position on the court. He shouldn't be put on the same position as Fultz from the very beginning. We paid deep price for that wrong decision.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#270 » by Mik317 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:51 pm

Fultz needed a new start.

He also needed less pressure.

Orlando gives him both of those things.

He needs a situation in which he could find himself at his own pace. We are on the verge of running every player out of the city after every bad possession....not the best place for a dude like Fultz atm.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#271 » by KL78192020 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:05 am

phifans wrote:
agiaco wrote:
kuclas wrote:
Problem is fultz would really need to play 20-25 minutes a game to get into game flow. And they tried it philly.

But with simmons playing 35-37 minutes. That only leaves 10-12 minute at the point guard.

Both are not catch and shoot guys.

Not compatible.


Yeah Fultz is too similar to Simmons in that he can't shoot well. It doesn't help to have him stepping in behind Simmons. It's unfortunate things did not work out.


Can't shoot is the only similarity they have.

Markelle is always a vocal point guard and Ben has no real position on the court. He shouldn't be put on the same position as Fultz from the very beginning. We paid deep price for that wrong decision.


Fultz is actually a much better shooter than Ben, hes shooting 74% from the FT line in his first real season. So much went wrong in Philly for him, and he only played about 30 games in two years. Hes already played more games so far, Bens FT percentage is stuck under 60%. Hes also been hitting the mid-rage consistently.

Maybe his super weird injury was actually much more real and no one really knew what it was in reality.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#272 » by kuclas » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:07 am

The simple fact is fultz was due 10 million. If Z Smith were due 10 million next year. I doubt the sixers would keep him as well. But at 2 million smith is easier to just suck it up and hope he gets better.

We just didn’t have 10 million to keep investing in fultz.

I know the team says the right things about fultz. But who knows what exactly was going behind the scenes with fultz and his team. So a combination of fultz team and sixers front office just having enough lead to fultz being essentially a salary dump.

An expensive salary dump considering we all knew he could play and contribute. I’d take “inefficient fultz mid range” plus breaking down a defense in half court set to distribute the ball to other players in better shooting position than Simmons half court game at this time

Ben is the better overall player than fultz (defense, overall player) right now but sometimes less is more. We have enough big bodies who can play defense. We need guys who can break down half court defenses. And Simmons can’t.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#273 » by phifans » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:35 am

kuclas wrote:The simple fact is fultz was due 10 million. If Z Smith were due 10 million next year. I doubt the sixers would keep him as well. But at 2 million smith is easier to just suck it up and hope he gets better.

We just didn’t have 10 million to keep investing in fultz.

I know the team says the right things about fultz. But who knows what exactly was going behind the scenes with fultz and his team. So a combination of fultz team and sixers front office just having enough lead to fultz being essentially a salary dump.

An expensive salary dump considering we all knew he could play and contribute. I’d take “inefficient fultz mid range” plus breaking down a defense in half court set to distribute the ball to other players in better shooting position than Simmons half court game at this time

Ben is the better overall player than fultz (defense, overall player) right now but sometimes less is more. We have enough big bodies who can play defense. We need guys who can break down half court defenses. And Simmons can’t.


I would take a chance to develop Fultz at 10m over paying Horford 4/100m. What typical shortsighted moves ! Good job Elton !
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#274 » by 76ciology » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:09 pm

Its more than the spurts of good games. Watch the games.

Fultz is single handedly running the entire magic offense. His skillset and body type is made for the PnR. He will continue to be better and eventually surpass Mitchell and most likely, Tatum.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#275 » by 76ciology » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:11 pm

phifans wrote:
kuclas wrote:The simple fact is fultz was due 10 million. If Z Smith were due 10 million next year. I doubt the sixers would keep him as well. But at 2 million smith is easier to just suck it up and hope he gets better.

We just didn’t have 10 million to keep investing in fultz.

I know the team says the right things about fultz. But who knows what exactly was going behind the scenes with fultz and his team. So a combination of fultz team and sixers front office just having enough lead to fultz being essentially a salary dump.

An expensive salary dump considering we all knew he could play and contribute. I’d take “inefficient fultz mid range” plus breaking down a defense in half court set to distribute the ball to other players in better shooting position than Simmons half court game at this time

Ben is the better overall player than fultz (defense, overall player) right now but sometimes less is more. We have enough big bodies who can play defense. We need guys who can break down half court defenses. And Simmons can’t.


I would take a chance to develop Fultz at 10m over paying Horford 4/100m. What typical shortsighted moves ! Good job Elton !


Sure in a nutshell.

But if you consider how we were very close of making the finals, how the league is wide open now and the fit of Ben and Fultz then the Al Horford signing makes more sense than Fultz. And this is coming from a big believer in Fultz.

In the end, I’d say we’re “all in” on winning one championship this year and maybe the next 2 years then we’re also “all in” with Ben.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#276 » by kuclas » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:36 pm

76ciology wrote:
phifans wrote:
kuclas wrote:The simple fact is fultz was due 10 million. If Z Smith were due 10 million next year. I doubt the sixers would keep him as well. But at 2 million smith is easier to just suck it up and hope he gets better.

We just didn’t have 10 million to keep investing in fultz.

I know the team says the right things about fultz. But who knows what exactly was going behind the scenes with fultz and his team. So a combination of fultz team and sixers front office just having enough lead to fultz being essentially a salary dump.

An expensive salary dump considering we all knew he could play and contribute. I’d take “inefficient fultz mid range” plus breaking down a defense in half court set to distribute the ball to other players in better shooting position than Simmons half court game at this time

Ben is the better overall player than fultz (defense, overall player) right now but sometimes less is more. We have enough big bodies who can play defense. We need guys who can break down half court defenses. And Simmons can’t.


I would take a chance to develop Fultz at 10m over paying Horford 4/100m. What typical shortsighted moves ! Good job Elton !


Sure in a nutshell.

But if you consider how we were very close of making the finals, how the league is wide open now and the fit of Ben and Fultz then the Al Horford signing makes more sense than Fultz. And this is coming from a big believer in Fultz.

In the end, I’d say we’re “all in” on winning one championship this year and maybe the next 2 years then we’re also “all in” with Ben.


I think we all need to stop thinking about “almost”‘making it to the finals when we still could have lost the game 7 in overtime in the second round. Worst case for Toronto is if Leonard misses shot is we go to overtime.

Yes. Agree. Fultz and Ben just not fitting and horford right now is the more valuable player for the next 2 years in our window to win a title.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#277 » by Eyeamok » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:55 pm

KL78192020 wrote:
phifans wrote:
agiaco wrote:
Yeah Fultz is too similar to Simmons in that he can't shoot well. It doesn't help to have him stepping in behind Simmons. It's unfortunate things did not work out.


Can't shoot is the only similarity they have.

Markelle is always a vocal point guard and Ben has no real position on the court. He shouldn't be put on the same position as Fultz from the very beginning. We paid deep price for that wrong decision.


Fultz is actually a much better shooter than Ben, hes shooting 74% from the FT line in his first real season. So much went wrong in Philly for him, and he only played about 30 games in two years. Hes already played more games so far, Bens FT percentage is stuck under 60%. Hes also been hitting the mid-rage consistently.

Maybe his super weird injury was actually much more real and no one really knew what it was in reality.


No one but his agent, who is not a medical doctor, who never attended PT school or nursing school, knew what the injury was. He correctly diagnosed it and got him the help that he needed. What an agent. All the doctors that Fultz saw, not one of them were able to diagnose it correctly. But his agent did. Weird injury my behind. Fultz may have had something physically wrong. But he had a lot of mental things going on as well a lot of them.

Philly sent him to ever doctor possible. Let him work on his own time table. Even allowed him to deliver donuts and and do handsprings and flips. But it was not enough. The guy needed a change of environment and some intensive therapy. It seems he got both even though he is still not the prospect people thought he would be.

Ben could and should be a much better player than he is today. A better PG if you will, he just has not done enough work on his game. He too might have a mental issue.

This whole Fultz situation rubs me the wrong way. Stupid BC making stupid trades wasting valuable assets. As a fan I thank goodness every day for his wife. The only thing that makes this right is if we go out and get Dennis Smith Jr. in the off season and turn him into a capable player.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#278 » by rzzzzz » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:27 pm

Eyeamok wrote:No one but his agent, who is not a medical doctor, who never attended PT school or nursing school, knew what the injury was. He correctly diagnosed it and got him the help that he needed. What an agent. All the doctors that Fultz saw, not one of them were able to diagnose it correctly. But his agent did. Weird injury my behind. Fultz may have had something physically wrong. But he had a lot of mental things going on as well a lot of them.

Philly sent him to ever doctor possible. Let him work on his own time table. Even allowed him to deliver donuts and and do handsprings and flips. But it was not enough. The guy needed a change of environment and some intensive therapy. It seems he got both even though he is still not the prospect people thought he would be.

Ben could and should be a much better player than he is today. A better PG if you will, he just has not done enough work on his game. He too might have a mental issue.

This whole Fultz situation rubs me the wrong way. Stupid BC making stupid trades wasting valuable assets. As a fan I thank goodness every day for his wife. The only thing that makes this right is if we go out and get Dennis Smith Jr. in the off season and turn him into a capable player.


my unsubstantiated conjecture is some sort of shoulder compression injury (the most common cause of TOS), maybe from activity restricted in his rookie contract, such as his favorite childhood sports activity outside of basketball. with no one associated with him allowed to address it directly adding to the strangeness of the situation. totally agree on DSJ, IF we had staff with a good track record of player development.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#279 » by Eyeamok » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:40 pm

rzzzzz wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:No one but his agent, who is not a medical doctor, who never attended PT school or nursing school, knew what the injury was. He correctly diagnosed it and got him the help that he needed. What an agent. All the doctors that Fultz saw, not one of them were able to diagnose it correctly. But his agent did. Weird injury my behind. Fultz may have had something physically wrong. But he had a lot of mental things going on as well a lot of them.

Philly sent him to ever doctor possible. Let him work on his own time table. Even allowed him to deliver donuts and and do handsprings and flips. But it was not enough. The guy needed a change of environment and some intensive therapy. It seems he got both even though he is still not the prospect people thought he would be.

Ben could and should be a much better player than he is today. A better PG if you will, he just has not done enough work on his game. He too might have a mental issue.

This whole Fultz situation rubs me the wrong way. Stupid BC making stupid trades wasting valuable assets. As a fan I thank goodness every day for his wife. The only thing that makes this right is if we go out and get Dennis Smith Jr. in the off season and turn him into a capable player.


my unsubstantiated conjecture is some sort of shoulder compression injury (the most common cause of TOS), maybe from activity restricted in his rookie contract, such as his favorite childhood sports activity outside of basketball. with no one associated with him allowed to address it directly adding to the strangeness of the situation. totally agree on DSJ, IF we had staff with a good track record of player development.


Teams can afford to employ the best of the best investigators to investigate their players if they have violated their contract. It seems very unlikely that Fultz injured his shoulder doing his favorite childhood sport activity. An injury that server would require medical attention. His agent would have had to bribe hospital staff not to use Fultz's real name on any medical or admittance forms. When Fultz was seen by doctors from the 76ers or the doctors that he visited, each and everyone of them would have had to miss signs of a fracture/break or trauma in the shoulder area severe enough to disrupt his shooting patterns. I think that is very unlikely. Fultz agent went with a diagnosis that could not be seen on any scan. I still think it was mostly if not all mental.
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Re: Markelle Fultz VIII: The Aftermath 

Post#280 » by rzzzzz » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:57 pm

Eyeamok wrote:
Teams can afford to employ the best of the best investigators to investigate their players if they have violated their contract. It seems very unlikely that Fultz injured his shoulder doing his favorite childhood sport activity. An injury that server would require medical attention. His agent would have had to bribe hospital staff not to use Fultz's real name on any medical or admittance forms. When Fultz was seen by doctors from the 76ers or the doctors that he visited, each and everyone of them would have had to miss signs of a fracture/break or trauma in the shoulder area severe enough to disrupt his shooting patterns. I think that is very unlikely. Fultz agent went with a diagnosis that could not be seen on any scan. I still think it was mostly if not all mental.


i don't think it's worth teams' while to violate the contract at the front end of a rookie deal. hassling the players union. chump change in the grand scheme. but if there's some other reason why Markelle refused to address the issue on camera, and his agent went back and forth about fluid being taken out vs a shot going in (probably both) and Drew getting fired after admitting that his "injury" still hasn't healed, i'd like to hear it.

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