Who could replace Brett Brown?

[TTP]

Your argument completely lacks critical thinking. You value Lue because he has won a championship and has been to three finals, but you don't really have a reason for why he would be a better coach than Brett Brown. The bolded in particular is absolutely comical because you're using it to criticize Brown, yet it's the entire reason for Ty Lue's success.

"Don't have a reason?" WHAT? I said the man HAS DONE WHAT WE WANT I.E HE'S GOTTEN TO THE EAST FINALS, GOTTEN OUT OF THE EAST MULTIPLE TIMES AND HAS WON A TITLE. You might see being Pops assistant and being a losing coach for several years as a better resume, but most folks with common sense don't, sorry.

You said "he knows what it takes to get where we want to go". Do you have a more specific explanation for what you mean there and how he could apply that to the Sixers? As far as I can see, "what it took" to get to the finals in Lue's case was LeBron, and there's no way he can bring LeBron here. Ty Lue's primary value was being someone that LeBron could control. If the Cavs thought he was a good coach, they wouldn't have fired him 6 games into their first season without LeBron.

LOL now we're gonna play the "he had Lebron" game are we? OK THEN. Phill Jackson had Jordan, Pippin, Rodman, Shak, Kobi etc during the times he won his titles. So should we take away his achievements? Hows about Pop? He's had Duncan, Kawhi, Parker, Manu etc, quality players. Should we take away his achievements too? Oh, and Pat Riley had a few players you might have heard of called Magic Johnson, Kareem, Worthy etc. So the "Lebron" argument doesn't hold weight at all unless you're prepared to use those same excuses against guys who are considered the "greatest NBA coaches" In history too.

I feel like your post is emblematic of the greater issue that I constantly see here. You assign success and failure based on results without thinking critically and considering the context. You put Lue on a pedestal for his success in a situation that was nearly impossible to fail and you scorn Brown for his failure during his first few seasons in a situation that was nearly impossible to succeed.

Again this is nonsense. Firstly how many average players has Brown really developed into decent players during his time here? Cov and? Even when you take away the poor results, his record when it comes to player development isn't that great at all. Then we can talk about his tactics where he can be slow at making adjustments as we've seen against Brad Stephens on several occasions. This all plays a part In my judgement of him too, not just the results. Lastly are you really telling me that the roster Ty Lue had last season wasn't flawed? Boston had all the talent and momentum on their side, had home court advantage and the "next great coach", and yet Ty Lue got out of the east with Lebron and a bunch of guys. And you don't think he deserves credit for that?

You mentioned before about Brown being a losing coach for years and being skeptical about a losing coach becoming a title winner.
As I said before, there is no analogous situation in the NBA but there are plenty in the real world. It's important to distinguish that Brown, Hinkie, and the Process era Sixers were failing to win but not failing at their goals. They were designed to lose in the short-term to prosper in the long-run. It's analogous to Jeff Bezos with Amazon, who didn't expect to profit for the first five years (I think it took 7?), but would end up as the richest man in the world. There is a big difference between losing (money or wins) due to ineptitude and losing due to design, but it takes critical thinking ability to recognize it.

Ok then well it's time for Brett to cash In now. He has a starting five that can rival Golden State and some decent pieces on the bench to play with. Let's see what he does now. Failing to reach the east finals would be a failure imo and a change should seriously be considered. But still, if we do reach the east finals and he gets outcoached again, then I'd still consider a change as well because it would be the second year In a row where that has happened. If Brown can show that he's grown as a coach and takes us further than we went last year, then fair enough. But if he doesn't, then I don't think we should waste time holding onto him. That's just my opinion.

Based on your first paragraph, it seems that you think winning a championship or making a few finals is enough to qualify someone as a good coach. That's incredibly shallow thinking and typing it in all caps doesn't change that. There are plenty of good coaches who have never been to the finals, and plenty of not so good coaches that have.

I'm not taking away coaches' achievements simply because they had good players and never suggested that. Those coaches you listed had great achievements but for the most part, they had tangible qualities that made them good coaches. Popovich isn't an incredible coach because he had Tim Duncan or because he won a lot of championships. He's a great coach because of his offensive and defensive schemes, his incredibly progressive mindset towards international players, staggering players (who else is bringing a hall of famer off the bench for most of his career?), his ability to get all of his players to buy in to his system of unselfishness, etc. I'm saying that specifically in Lue's case, I don't think there is anything remarkable about him and that he wouldn't be viewed as a successful coach in different circumstances.

Not sure why you're bringing up player development in a discussion where you're trying to argue in favor of Lue over Brown. Has Lue developed anyone? His organization clearly didn't trust him to develop the future given that he was fired 6 games into the post-LeBron era.

Boston had all the talent and momentum on their side? What does that mean? Lue had the most talented player in the world, a player that had 7 straight NBA finals worth of momentum heading into that series. No one on the Celtics had close to his level of talent or experience. By momentum do you mean the Celtics won all their playoff series up to that point? Because the Cavs did that too.

[PhillyPhilly]

Based on your first paragraph, it seems that you think winning a championship or making a few finals is enough to qualify someone as a good coach. That's incredibly shallow thinking and typing it in all caps doesn't change that. There are plenty of good coaches who have never been to the finals, and plenty of not so good coaches that have.

I'm not taking away coaches' achievements simply because they had good players and never suggested that. Those coaches you listed had great achievements but for the most part, they had tangible qualities that made them good coaches. Popovich isn't an incredible coach because he had Tim Duncan or because he won a lot of championships. He's a great coach because of his offensive and defensive schemes, his incredibly progressive mindset towards international players, staggering players (who else is bringing a hall of famer off the bench for most of his career?), his ability to get all of his players to buy in to his system of unselfishness, etc. I'm saying that specifically in Lue's case, I don't think there is anything remarkable about him and that he wouldn't be viewed as a successful coach in different circumstances.

Not sure why you're bringing up player development in a discussion where you're trying to argue in favor of Lue over Brown. Has Lue developed anyone? His organization clearly didn't trust him to develop the future given that he was fired 6 games into the post-LeBron era.

Boston had all the talent and momentum on their side? What does that mean? Lue had the most talented player in the world, a player that had 7 straight NBA finals worth of momentum heading into that series. No one on the Celtics had close to his level of talent or experience. By momentum do you mean the Celtics won all their playoff series up to that point? Because the Cavs did that too.

Smh more dribble I'm a affraid

1. "Few finals" Hows about FOUR IN A ROW? And newsflash, IT IS A COACHES JOB TO WIN GAMES AND WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. If you're content with having a "good coach" who cannot achieve success, then more fool you. I simply want more for my team thank you,

2. Yes pop is a special case, But what about Jackson and Riley? What about Kerr right now? You simply cannot downplay Ty's achievements and then praise those three coaches. As all you'd be doing is exposing your bias.

3. So you judge Ty for what the Cavs decided to do in terms of the players on the roster, but at the same time you make excuses for Brown for what Hinkie decided to do with the Sixers? SMH.

4. Boston had the better roster, home court advantage and a "super coach". What did Ty have? Lebron and a bunch guys that had barely played together. Please do the maths as all you've got to do is look at what the Cavs are doing this season to see what Ty was working with.

And in closing, once again your friend Brett came up short tactically tonight. But no doubt you'll blame Ty Lue for that

[sixers hoops]

Your argument completely lacks critical thinking. You value Lue because he has won a championship and has been to three finals, but you don't really have a reason for why he would be a better coach than Brett Brown. The bolded in particular is absolutely comical because you're using it to criticize Brown, yet it's the entire reason for Ty Lue's success.

"Don't have a reason?" WHAT? I said the man HAS DONE WHAT WE WANT I.E HE'S GOTTEN TO THE EAST FINALS, GOTTEN OUT OF THE EAST MULTIPLE TIMES AND HAS WON A TITLE. You might see being Pops assistant and being a losing coach for several years as a better resume, but most folks with common sense don't, sorry.

You said "he knows what it takes to get where we want to go". Do you have a more specific explanation for what you mean there and how he could apply that to the Sixers? As far as I can see, "what it took" to get to the finals in Lue's case was LeBron, and there's no way he can bring LeBron here. Ty Lue's primary value was being someone that LeBron could control. If the Cavs thought he was a good coach, they wouldn't have fired him 6 games into their first season without LeBron.

LOL now we're gonna play the "he had Lebron" game are we? OK THEN. Phill Jackson had Jordan, Pippin, Rodman, Shak, Kobi etc during the times he won his titles. So should we take away his achievements? Hows about Pop? He's had Duncan, Kawhi, Parker, Manu etc, quality players. Should we take away his achievements too? Oh, and Pat Riley had a few players you might have heard of called Magic Johnson, Kareem, Worthy etc. So the "Lebron" argument doesn't hold weight at all unless you're prepared to use those same excuses against guys who are considered the "greatest NBA coaches" In history too.

I feel like your post is emblematic of the greater issue that I constantly see here. You assign success and failure based on results without thinking critically and considering the context. You put Lue on a pedestal for his success in a situation that was nearly impossible to fail and you scorn Brown for his failure during his first few seasons in a situation that was nearly impossible to succeed.

Again this is nonsense. Firstly how many average players has Brown really developed into decent players during his time here? Cov and? Even when you take away the poor results, his record when it comes to player development isn't that great at all. Then we can talk about his tactics where he can be slow at making adjustments as we've seen against Brad Stephens on several occasions. This all plays a part In my judgement of him too, not just the results. Lastly are you really telling me that the roster Ty Lue had last season wasn't flawed? Boston had all the talent and momentum on their side, had home court advantage and the "next great coach", and yet Ty Lue got out of the east with Lebron and a bunch of guys. And you don't think he deserves credit for that?

You mentioned before about Brown being a losing coach for years and being skeptical about a losing coach becoming a title winner.
As I said before, there is no analogous situation in the NBA but there are plenty in the real world. It's important to distinguish that Brown, Hinkie, and the Process era Sixers were failing to win but not failing at their goals. They were designed to lose in the short-term to prosper in the long-run. It's analogous to Jeff Bezos with Amazon, who didn't expect to profit for the first five years (I think it took 7?), but would end up as the richest man in the world. There is a big difference between losing (money or wins) due to ineptitude and losing due to design, but it takes critical thinking ability to recognize it.

Ok then well it's time for Brett to cash In now. He has a starting five that can rival Golden State and some decent pieces on the bench to play with. Let's see what he does now. Failing to reach the east finals would be a failure imo and a change should seriously be considered. But still, if we do reach the east finals and he gets outcoached again, then I'd still consider a change as well because it would be the second year In a row where that has happened. If Brown can show that he's grown as a coach and takes us further than we went last year, then fair enough. But if he doesn't, then I don't think we should waste time holding onto him. That's just my opinion.

Based on your first paragraph, it seems that you think winning a championship or making a few finals is enough to qualify someone as a good coach. That's incredibly shallow thinking and typing it in all caps doesn't change that. There are plenty of good coaches who have never been to the finals, and plenty of not so good coaches that have.

I'm not taking away coaches' achievements simply because they had good players and never suggested that. Those coaches you listed had great achievements but for the most part, they had tangible qualities that made them good coaches. Popovich isn't an incredible coach because he had Tim Duncan or because he won a lot of championships. He's a great coach because of his offensive and defensive schemes, his incredibly progressive mindset towards international players, staggering players (who else is bringing a hall of famer off the bench for most of his career?), his ability to get all of his players to buy in to his system of unselfishness, etc. I'm saying that specifically in Lue's case, I don't think there is anything remarkable about him and that he wouldn't be viewed as a successful coach in different circumstances.

Not sure why you're bringing up player development in a discussion where you're trying to argue in favor of Lue over Brown. Has Lue developed anyone? His organization clearly didn't trust him to develop the future given that he was fired 6 games into the post-LeBron era.

Boston had all the talent and momentum on their side? What does that mean? Lue had the most talented player in the world, a player that had 7 straight NBA finals worth of momentum heading into that series. No one on the Celtics had close to his level of talent or experience. By momentum do you mean the Celtics won all their playoff series up to that point? Because the Cavs did that too.

True, but all caps, followed by a SMH, then a laughing emoji, and capped off with an Lol is an indisputable checkmate.

[Sixerscan]

Ty Lue's record speaks for itself. He's been to several eastern and nba finals and knows what it takes to get to where we want to go. He also has experience when it comes to dealing with star players which we obviously have. As for your last point. When someone is used to losing and doing the same thing for so long, and then strikes gold with this roster, it's hard to know if they are a good coach or if it's the talent that is carrying said coach. Imo a good coach is able to over achieve at some point during their career. Ty Lue did that last year imo when you consider the issues the Cavs had. Brown on the other hand hasn't proven he can do that yet.

Yeah I'm sure you had the Sixers winning 52 games and a playoff round before last year lol.

Let's be honest now, a team with Simmons, Embiid, Redick, Saric, Covington as a starting five, plus Ersan, Belli etc coming off the bench was a damn good hand to play with. IMO doing what Utuh did last season was over achieving more than what we did.

Lol you clearly weren't even a fan of the team before last year. Please let me updated your bandwagon takes.

Crazy how the best starting 5 in the NBA last year worked. After all the haters WHINED about how Ben and Dario were a horrible fit. I can only assume that was something you were all about.

[hookshot199]

Josh Harris has now said he would be "very, very disppointed at a first round exit" this year regardless of whether we play Boston or not. Obviously, that's no surprise. But when you couple these latest comments with the comments Elton Brand made when we got Tobias ("we would be very disappointed if we don't make the Eastern final"), then I think it's as clear as day that the pressure is very much on Brown. And with the talent he has In his hands, how could he not be?

And as far as replacements are concerned. Jarron Collins from Golden State looks like a very impressive candidate imo. I believe we should either get someone from the best system like Collins, or someone who has won a title and knows the East like the back of his hand like Ty Lue.

How many nba coaches have been a losing coach for years and then suddenly have tons of success and win titles? I know the tanking wasn't Brett's fault, but the record is the record and I just wonder how many other coaches In his situation have gone on to win titles?

I think Josh Harris is letting Brett Brown know that he has to up his game. I don't know who we should consider to replace him, but I would prefer a guy like Jay Wright. Throw him $6-$7/milyear. Make him an offer he can't refuse.

That said, I would hope they could find a position - perhaps president of basketball operations - to keep him in the organization.

[PhillyPhilly]

Yeah I'm sure you had the Sixers winning 52 games and a playoff round before last year lol.

Let's be honest now, a team with Simmons, Embiid, Redick, Saric, Covington as a starting five, plus Ersan, Belli etc coming off the bench was a damn good hand to play with. IMO doing what Utuh did last season was over achieving more than what we did.

Lol you clearly weren't even a fan of the team before last year. Please let me updated your bandwagon takes.

Crazy how the best starting 5 in the NBA last year worked. After all the haters WHINED about how Ben and Dario were a horrible fit. I can only assume that was something you were all about.

Well firstly I don't appreciate that first statement, I used to post on the other sixers forum back then, not here. And doesn't us having statistically the best starting five last season prove my point that Brett didn't over achieve last season? All I'm saying is he had a decent hand to play with just like he does now. Imo both us and Boston had better rosters than the Cavs but yet Ty Lue found a way out of the east .

[ivysixer2000]

Let's be honest now, a team with Simmons, Embiid, Redick, Saric, Covington as a starting five, plus Ersan, Belli etc coming off the bench was a damn good hand to play with. IMO doing what Utuh did last season was over achieving more than what we did.

Lol you clearly weren't even a fan of the team before last year. Please let me updated your bandwagon takes.

Crazy how the best starting 5 in the NBA last year worked. After all the haters WHINED about how Ben and Dario were a horrible fit. I can only assume that was something you were all about.

Well firstly I don't appreciate that first statement, I used to post on the other sixers forum back then, not here. And doesn't us having statistically the best starting five last season prove my point that Brett didn't over achieve last season? All I'm saying is he had a decent hand to play with just like he does now. Imo both us and Boston had better rosters than the Cavs but yet Ty Lue found a way out of the east .

Dude, I'm not the biggest Brett fan of course, but Ty Lue would be an awful choice.

I'd rather have Brett, and thats saying alot for me. I like Brett as part of the organization, but as the game time coach, he just doesn't have the 'hes the guy' it factor. If anything, when it comes down to crutch time I'm sitting there hoping Brett doesn't screw it up instead of thinking we have a coach that will pull the game out.

Its a bad feeling really....but Ty would be worse.

[Sixerscan]

Let's be honest now, a team with Simmons, Embiid, Redick, Saric, Covington as a starting five, plus Ersan, Belli etc coming off the bench was a damn good hand to play with. IMO doing what Utuh did last season was over achieving more than what we did.

Lol you clearly weren't even a fan of the team before last year. Please let me updated your bandwagon takes.

Crazy how the best starting 5 in the NBA last year worked. After all the haters WHINED about how Ben and Dario were a horrible fit. I can only assume that was something you were all about.

Well firstly I don't appreciate that first statement, I used to post on the other sixers forum back then, not here. And doesn't us having statistically the best starting five last season prove my point that Brett didn't over achieve last season? All I'm saying is he had a decent hand to play with just like he does now. Imo both us and Boston had better rosters than the Cavs but yet Ty Lue found a way out of the east .

They didn't have the best starting 5 until he started them together.

Again, you have them winning 52 games and a round before the year started?

Ty Lue "found a way" by having the best player in the world on his team.

[PhillyPhilly]

Lol you clearly weren't even a fan of the team before last year. Please let me updated your bandwagon takes.

Crazy how the best starting 5 in the NBA last year worked. After all the haters WHINED about how Ben and Dario were a horrible fit. I can only assume that was something you were all about.

Well firstly I don't appreciate that first statement, I used to post on the other sixers forum back then, not here. And doesn't us having statistically the best starting five last season prove my point that Brett didn't over achieve last season? All I'm saying is he had a decent hand to play with just like he does now. Imo both us and Boston had better rosters than the Cavs but yet Ty Lue found a way out of the east .

They didn't have the best starting 5 until he started them together.

Again, you have them winning 52 games and a round before the year started?

Ty Lue "found a way" by having the best player in the world on his team.

So again, Phil Jackson wasn't a good coach then considering he had WAY MORE talent to work with than Ty ever has? And if it's soley about having Lebron, then why are the Lakers on the verge of not making the playoffs?

[Sixerscan]

Well firstly I don't appreciate that first statement, I used to post on the other sixers forum back then, not here. And doesn't us having statistically the best starting five last season prove my point that Brett didn't over achieve last season? All I'm saying is he had a decent hand to play with just like he does now. Imo both us and Boston had better rosters than the Cavs but yet Ty Lue found a way out of the east .

They didn't have the best starting 5 until he started them together.

Again, you have them winning 52 games and a round before the year started?

Ty Lue "found a way" by having the best player in the world on his team.

So again, Phil Jackson wasn't a good coach then considering he had WAY MORE talent to work with than Ty ever has? And if it's soley about having Lebron, then why are the Lakers on the verge of not making the playoffs?

Because he tore his groin and missed the most games of his career? If you want to make the point that Luke Walton isn't a great coach I won't have any arguments there.

Just gonna lay this out again. You said the Sixers need to overachieve for Brown to be a good coach. Did you think they were going to win 52 games and a round before the season last year?

[sixers hoops]

They didn't have the best starting 5 until he started them together.

Again, you have them winning 52 games and a round before the year started?

Ty Lue "found a way" by having the best player in the world on his team.

So again, Phil Jackson wasn't a good coach then considering he had WAY MORE talent to work with than Ty ever has? And if it's soley about having Lebron, then why are the Lakers on the verge of not making the playoffs?

Because he tore his groin and missed the most games of his career? If you want to make the point that Luke Walton isn't a great coach I won't have any arguments there.

Just gonna lay this out again. You said the Sixers need to overachieve for Brown to be a good coach. Did you think they were going to win 52 games and a round before the season last year?

I think it’s pretty obvious Lebron missing 18 games and playing in the west is the difference. The lakers 30 wins would currently have them in the 7th seed in the east. Lebron doesn’t miss those games, the Lakers are on pace to have a comparable east playoff seed to last year’s Cavs.

[PhillyPhilly]

They didn't have the best starting 5 until he started them together.

Again, you have them winning 52 games and a round before the year started?

Ty Lue "found a way" by having the best player in the world on his team.

So again, Phil Jackson wasn't a good coach then considering he had WAY MORE talent to work with than Ty ever has? And if it's soley about having Lebron, then why are the Lakers on the verge of not making the playoffs?

Because he tore his groin and missed the most games of his career? If you want to make the point that Luke Walton isn't a great coach I won't have any arguments there.

Just gonna lay this out again. You said the Sixers need to overachieve for Brown to be a good coach. Did you think they were going to win 52 games and a round before the season last year?

What I meant by "overachieving" was showing that his coaching ability can be the difference in tough situations. So for example the Pacers have managed to hold us off for weeks since they lost their best player. They don't have any other stars to lean on so that to me is a coach showing his worth. Brown has had an incredible card to play with over the course of the last two years and I can't name many times where his coaching has made the difference in a positive way. Infact it's been the opposite when you consider how many blown leads we've had.

Also, Lebron may have missed games for the Lakers but in 2011 he started just 62 regular season games for Miami and ended up winning the title. Then in 2014 he started 69 and still went to the finals. So I'm not sure that excuse holds weight tbh. The Cavs team right now shows everyone the hand Ty Lue was working with.

[Sixerscan]

So again, Phil Jackson wasn't a good coach then considering he had WAY MORE talent to work with than Ty ever has? And if it's soley about having Lebron, then why are the Lakers on the verge of not making the playoffs?

Because he tore his groin and missed the most games of his career? If you want to make the point that Luke Walton isn't a great coach I won't have any arguments there.

Just gonna lay this out again. You said the Sixers need to overachieve for Brown to be a good coach. Did you think they were going to win 52 games and a round before the season last year?

What I meant by "overachieving" was showing that his coaching ability can be the difference in tough situations. So for example the Pacers have managed to hold us off for weeks since they lost their best player. They don't have any other stars to lean on so that to me is a coach showing his worth. Brown has had an incredible card to play with over the course of the last two years and I can't name many times where his coaching has made the difference in a positive way. Infact it's been the opposite when you consider how many blown leads we've had.

Also, Lebron may have missed games for the Lakers but in 2011 he started just 62 regular season games for Miami and ended up winning the title. Then in 2014 he started 69 and still went to the finals. So I'm not sure that excuse holds weight tbh. The Cavs team right now shows everyone the hand Ty Lue was working with.

They literally went on a long winning streak last year to pass the Pacers despite Embiid being hurt, heck they're hung tough over this recent stretch without Embiid while the Pacers have lost 3 of 4 to sub .500 teams... This year they've made several major trades and dealt with the Fultz stuff and the team has still consistently churned out wins. No idea what's you're talking about...

I assume you're referring to 2012, which was the 66 game lockout year... not sure what you're point is regardless, are you comparing Eric Spolestra David Blatt and Luke Walton now?

[rzzzzz]

Look, last nights denouement couldn't have made the problem any plainer. JJ has been struggling. He continued to struggle. It happens. Players have slumps and snap out of it. But one of the intrinsic jobs of coaching is handling games, each individual game. Generally you want to win these things. And it's not a bad message to the players that, no offense, but each night we're generally going to go with those players who give us the best chance to win that given game. Sure, there are always exceptions, and underlying considerations for the long haul, but last night, especially down the stretch, JJ couldn't score, and for sure he couldnt defend. And GSW were taking advantage to clog things up for the rest. A good coach has to be a game coach. Someone who makes adjustments from preconceived schemes to react to what's actually happening on the court. The most primal obligation of a coach is to recognize who is struggling, who has a hot hand, and if that isn't obvious, who at least has a fair chance of contributing something of value, rather than stubbornly give away a game for the sake of inalterable consistency.

[PhillyPhilly]

Because he tore his groin and missed the most games of his career? If you want to make the point that Luke Walton isn't a great coach I won't have any arguments there.

Just gonna lay this out again. You said the Sixers need to overachieve for Brown to be a good coach. Did you think they were going to win 52 games and a round before the season last year?

What I meant by "overachieving" was showing that his coaching ability can be the difference in tough situations. So for example the Pacers have managed to hold us off for weeks since they lost their best player. They don't have any other stars to lean on so that to me is a coach showing his worth. Brown has had an incredible card to play with over the course of the last two years and I can't name many times where his coaching has made the difference in a positive way. Infact it's been the opposite when you consider how many blown leads we've had.

Also, Lebron may have missed games for the Lakers but in 2011 he started just 62 regular season games for Miami and ended up winning the title. Then in 2014 he started 69 and still went to the finals. So I'm not sure that excuse holds weight tbh. The Cavs team right now shows everyone the hand Ty Lue was working with.

They literally went on a long winning streak last year to pass the Pacers despite Embiid being hurt, heck they're hung tough over this recent stretch without Embiid while the Pacers have lost 3 of 4 to sub .500 teams... This year they've made several major trades and dealt with the Fultz stuff and the team has still consistently churned out wins. No idea what's you're talking about...

I assume you're referring to 2012, which was the 66 game lockout year... not sure what you're point is regardless, are you comparing Eric Spolestra David Blatt and Luke Walton now?

SMH please read what I said again. I said the Pacers are doing it WITH NO OTHER STARS ON THEIR TEAM. Last season durung the late run against many poor teams Brown had THE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR, JJ, "all defense first team" COVINGTON, Saric, Belli and ERSAN. More than enough talent In a run against mostly poor sides. So the comparison Is apples and oranges imo.

You also continue to ignore my question. If Ty Lue isn't good enough does that mean Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Steve Kerr are not good/great coach's?

[Sixerscan]

What I meant by "overachieving" was showing that his coaching ability can be the difference in tough situations. So for example the Pacers have managed to hold us off for weeks since they lost their best player. They don't have any other stars to lean on so that to me is a coach showing his worth. Brown has had an incredible card to play with over the course of the last two years and I can't name many times where his coaching has made the difference in a positive way. Infact it's been the opposite when you consider how many blown leads we've had.

Also, Lebron may have missed games for the Lakers but in 2011 he started just 62 regular season games for Miami and ended up winning the title. Then in 2014 he started 69 and still went to the finals. So I'm not sure that excuse holds weight tbh. The Cavs team right now shows everyone the hand Ty Lue was working with.

They literally went on a long winning streak last year to pass the Pacers despite Embiid being hurt, heck they're hung tough over this recent stretch without Embiid while the Pacers have lost 3 of 4 to sub .500 teams... This year they've made several major trades and dealt with the Fultz stuff and the team has still consistently churned out wins. No idea what's you're talking about...

I assume you're referring to 2012, which was the 66 game lockout year... not sure what you're point is regardless, are you comparing Eric Spolestra David Blatt and Luke Walton now?

SMH please read what I said again. I said the Pacers are doing it WITH NO OTHER STARS ON THEIR TEAM. Last season durung the late run against many poor teams Brown had THE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR, JJ, "all defense first team" COVINGTON, Saric, Belli and ERSAN. More than enough talent In a run against mostly poor sides. So the comparison Is apples and oranges imo.

You also continue to ignore my question. If Ty Lue isn't good enough does that mean Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Steve Kerr are not good/great coach's?

I ignored it because you're all over the place. You understand the irony of saying Brown only wins games because of the talent on his roster while also trying to make this point, right? What is the "tough situation" Phil Jackson had to deal with? The only seasons he had fewer than 2 hall of famers his team lost in the first round. What is the "tough situation" that Ty Lue had to deal with? He got fired 6 games into not having the best player in the world on his team.

That point aside, I think it's pretty obvious that those guys were/are much better coaches than Lue. They're better than Brown too. If Kerr is interested let's bring him in. Not Lue though.

[PhillyPhilly]

I ignored it because you're all over the place. You understand the irony of saying Brown only wins games because of the talent on his roster while also trying to make this point, right? What is the "tough situation" Phil Jackson had to deal with? The only seasons he had fewer than 2 hall of famers his team lost in the first round. What is the "tough situation" that Ty Lue had to deal with? He got fired 6 games into not having the best player in the world on his team.

That point aside, I think it's pretty obvious that those guys were/are much better coaches than Lue. They're better than Brown too. If Kerr is interested let's bring him in. Not Lue though.

I think you missed the point. I'm not just saying "because of talent", that does play a huge role yes, but it's the fact that he's getting outcoached in big spots In the games that is the most alarming thing. How many twenty point leads did we give up last season? SIX? How many times did he fail to call a time out when it was most needed?

As for Lue, well IMO winning that game seven against Boston last season was massive. Coming back when down against the Pacers. And do I have to mention the series they played against GS to win the title? You can't say "it's all Lebron" with Lue, and not say the same when it pertains to Jackson, Kerr and Riley when they won their titles and the big reason is those coaches have had MORE stars on their respective teams than Lue has. So In a way what Lue achieved is more impressive. I'm not saying he should be the absolute favourite as I like Jarron Collins too, but to write off Lue is silly imo.

And In closing, Bill Belichick got fired from a Cleveland team too, I wonder what became of him In the end?

[Mik317]

Lue was LeBron's yes man. The moment Bron left he got fired. This is the guy who didn't play a Hot Korver because of Semi O.

You cannot cape for Lue and then expect to have a good point. Might as well just hire Mike Brown.

[PhillyPhilly]

Lue was LeBron's yes man. The moment Bron left he got fired. This is the guy who didn't play a Hot Korver because of Semi O.

You cannot cape for Lue and then expect to have a good point. Might as well just hire Mike Brown.

You do know that the Cavs want to tank this year right? So keeping Lue wouldn't make sense to their agenda.

[Sixerscan]

I ignored it because you're all over the place. You understand the irony of saying Brown only wins games because of the talent on his roster while also trying to make this point, right? What is the "tough situation" Phil Jackson had to deal with? The only seasons he had fewer than 2 hall of famers his team lost in the first round. What is the "tough situation" that Ty Lue had to deal with? He got fired 6 games into not having the best player in the world on his team.

That point aside, I think it's pretty obvious that those guys were/are much better coaches than Lue. They're better than Brown too. If Kerr is interested let's bring him in. Not Lue though.

I think you missed the point. I'm not just saying "because of talent", that does play a huge role yes, but it's the fact that he's getting outcoached in big spots In the games that is the most alarming thing. How many twenty point leads did we give up last season? SIX? How many times did he fail to call a time out when it was most needed?

As for Lue, well IMO winning that game seven against Boston last season was massive. Coming back when down against the Pacers. And do I have to mention the series they played against GS to win the title? You can't say "it's all Lebron" with Lue, and not say the same when it pertains to Jackson, Kerr and Riley when they won their titles and the big reason is those coaches have had MORE stars on their respective teams than Lue has. So In a way what Lue achieved is more impressive. I'm not saying he should be the absolute favourite as I like Jarron Collins too, but to write off Lue is silly imo.

And In closing, Bill Belichick got fired from a Cleveland team too, I wonder what became of him In the end?

I just think you're picking and choosing a lot of stuff. Like this idea that he always gets outcoached in big moments. They're 9-6 in games decided by 3 points or less this year. That's better than everyone in the league besides the Nuggets and Raptors. I'm not saying he's some sort of master end of game tactician, but they wouldn't be possible if he was as incompetent as you and a few other seem to indicate.

Between that, the blown leads, the timeouts thing (Brad Stevens went down 20 points in the first half today and waited for the TV mandated timeout, it's just something coaches do from time to time) It just seems pretty clear people are bending over backwards to not give the guy credit/blame him for everything bad that happens.

They blew their win projection last year out of the water, and this year despite two major trades, the Fultz thing, Jimmy Butler, the team has stayed together, is on pace for another 50+ win season and hasn't lost more than 2 games in a row all year. Compare this team's smooth sailing to the dumpster fire that's going up in Boston.

Re Lue: I don't think it was all Lebron, I think Lue was a fine replacement level NBA head coach which involves a lot of work on his part. Not saying he's Jason Kidd or anything. He's just not as good as Brown and certainly isn't any sort of guaranteed upgrade that makes ruining the current synergy that comes with uprooting a coaching staff. Those other coaches had better systems, Riley and Jackson did it in multiple places over a longer period of time ect.