ImageImageImage

Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs)

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, sixers hoops, CoreyGallagher, Sixerscan, Foshan

BullyKing
Forum Mod - 76ers
Forum Mod - 76ers
Posts: 9,580
And1: 8,631
Joined: Jan 16, 2014

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#561 » by BullyKing » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:14 am

LloydFree wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
LloydFree wrote:I don't get the Rich Paul hate. Before him the same six, old money, agents ran the league and filled their pockets unchecked, but suddenly because a new guy gets a little power, he's a villain? SMH.


It's the LeJerk factor, plain and simple.

I don't see how LeBron James has done a thing to be labeled a jerk. He was the best HS player of the last 25 years. He sent his HS friends to school and helped them become successful, instead of giving his money to strangers like other athletes. He worked to be the best on the planet at his profession, and he's decided where he wants it play, instead of letting GMs control his career. Not one jerky thing in that list.


Agree with Lloyd here. He's also been a tremendous role model. Never been involved in an off the court issue of any kind and puts the money where his mouth is as an activist (read about the public school he opened). If you don't like the power he's managed to grab in how the teams he is on are run, blame the owners/GMs that permitted it, not the guy who is just trying to take as much control over his career as others are allowing.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 19,382
And1: 2,838
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#562 » by youngcrev » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:59 pm

If the Lakers do end up with that smaller cap number as reported, would they be able to absorb a large expiring contract and then flip that for a player at a larger cap figure? Because future be damned, Chris Paul very much feels like a potential Lebron target
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,441
And1: 11,830
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#563 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:14 pm

youngcrev wrote:If the Lakers do end up with that smaller cap number as reported, would they be able to absorb a large expiring contract and then flip that for a player at a larger cap figure? Because future be damned, Chris Paul very much feels like a potential Lebron target


Yeah if they wanted they could trade for a contract that’s 120% of their cap space, then trade that for salaries that are 120% of that, and keep doing that.

Feel like they’re just gonna sign free agents though. The thing is they don’t have any assets left to trade with the expirings so the guys they would be trading for would probably be close to negative assets. Unless Paul just forces his way to LA as you said.
Eyeamok
Veteran
Posts: 2,744
And1: 1,225
Joined: Mar 02, 2006

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#564 » by Eyeamok » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:43 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Lakers should be the most hated in the league now. This situation with Rich Paul making the league bend to his will is absurd.

I don't get the Rich Paul hate. Before him the same six, old money, agents ran the league and filled their pockets unchecked, but suddenly because a new guy gets a little power, he's a villain? SMH.


100% agree. Part of the problem. A large part of the problem, is Rich Paul has come up in the internet age. Where everyone has a voice and any news is blasted via, facebook, twttter and the internets (the bings, the googles, the firefoxes the chromes you take your pick). So he is easy to paint as the villain. And of course let's not forget about his association with the King too.

But Paul and Lebron will make an already wide open race for a title even better because every good story need a strong bad guy and now we have 3. Paul, Lebron and AD. All we need is for Lebron to hold a per-championshp rally and spout that immortal phrase.

You want it to be one way....but it's the other way.

Marlo

“People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.”

Andrew Smith
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,441
And1: 11,830
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#565 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:53 pm

Eyeamok wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Lakers should be the most hated in the league now. This situation with Rich Paul making the league bend to his will is absurd.

I don't get the Rich Paul hate. Before him the same six, old money, agents ran the league and filled their pockets unchecked, but suddenly because a new guy gets a little power, he's a villain? SMH.


100% agree. Part of the problem. A large part of the problem, is Rich Paul has come up in the internet age. Where everyone has a voice and any news is blasted via, facebook, twttter and the internets (the bings, the googles, the firefoxes the chromes you take your pick). So he is easy to paint as the villain. And of course let's not forget about his association with the King too.

But Paul and Lebron will make an already wide open race for a title even better because every good story need a strong bad guy and now we have 3. Paul, Lebron and AD. All we need is for Lebron to hold a per-championshp rally and spout that immortal phrase.



Well that’s fair, but it also goes hand in hand with him exploiting the Internet age to promote himself and his clients.

I respect the hell out of him as a business man, but at the same time as a basketball fan I’m not exactly into all the side shows and stuff that’s not directly about the sport.

You can compare him to other guys in the past when they were breaking into mega agent status like Scott Boras or Drew Rosenhaus, but I think most people would say they found them annoying and a distraction back then too.
Negrodamus
RealGM
Posts: 12,177
And1: 4,809
Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#566 » by Negrodamus » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:35 pm

BullyKing wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
It's the LeJerk factor, plain and simple.

I don't see how LeBron James has done a thing to be labeled a jerk. He was the best HS player of the last 25 years. He sent his HS friends to school and helped them become successful, instead of giving his money to strangers like other athletes. He worked to be the best on the planet at his profession, and he's decided where he wants it play, instead of letting GMs control his career. Not one jerky thing in that list.


Agree with Lloyd here. He's also been a tremendous role model. Never been involved in an off the court issue of any kind and puts the money where his mouth is as an activist (read about the public school he opened). If you don't like the power he's managed to grab in how the teams he is on are run, blame the owners/GMs that permitted it, not the guy who is just trying to take as much control over his career as others are allowing.


I also agree. I applauded him for leaving the nightmare situation in Cleveland to go finally win a championship in Miami. He was making a great business decision. I also think what he and Rich are doing in LA is smart. I just don't think it's great for the league.

After spending some time reflecting on the trade, especially on the heels of what happened to the Warriors in the Finals, it's pretty clear that the Lakers are still incompetent. If LeBron or AD go down with a substantial injury, they are in complete disarray. More than anything, they need to keep AD healthy for the foreseeable future because as long as he's there, they will always be able to attract top free agents. The draft picks were a lot, but lets be honest, the Lakers have been atrocious drafting over the past 5-6 years. They would have botched those pick anyway.
Negrodamus
RealGM
Posts: 12,177
And1: 4,809
Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#567 » by Negrodamus » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:46 pm

I'm very curious what the Pelicans will do with the 4th pick. I mentioned how fun Zion and Lonzo will be, but they will be absolutely electrifying. I would say a Nash/Amare lite, but Ball isn't much of a PnR player. They should be able to put up huge numbers though.

They could add De'Andre Hunter and have crazy switchability between Zion and Hunter in the frontcourt, maybe grab Nerlens and put together one of the best fastbreak defensive teams in the league.

Could be insanely fun.
User avatar
LloydFree
RealGM
Posts: 12,877
And1: 8,904
Joined: Aug 20, 2012
Location: Somewhere near the Jersey Turnpike, between exit 4 and 15E

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#568 » by LloydFree » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:15 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I'm very curious what the Pelicans will do with the 4th pick. I mentioned how fun Zion and Lonzo will be, but they will be absolutely electrifying. I would say a Nash/Amare lite, but Ball isn't much of a PnR player. They should be able to put up huge numbers though.

They could add De'Andre Hunter and have crazy switchability between Zion and Hunter in the frontcourt, maybe grab Nerlens and put together one of the best fastbreak defensive teams in the league.

Could be insanely fun.

If they don't flip Lonzo, I think they select Cam Redish. If they plan on moving Lonzo to Chicago or Phoenix, I'd say they select Garland.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
hookshot199
Veteran
Posts: 2,938
And1: 605
Joined: Jun 16, 2014
   

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#569 » by hookshot199 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:42 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Read on Twitter


Uhh this changes things alot. They're not gonna have the space to get a 3rd guy unless it's Russell or one of the 30% guys takes a discount.


People on the Lakers board, including their mods, are disputing Woj's report. There seems to be
some question about why the rush to July 6 rather than wait 30 days. Something about a "moratorium".
If they were to wait 30 days, according to my paraphrase, their cap number could go up to $32 mil,
thus giving them a better shot a quality free agent.

Does this make any sense to you? It impacts us because Jimmy, theoretically, could accept a slightly
lower offer (not that he will), thus be in play for the Lakers. Ditto I suppose for Kemba Walker, Kyrie
and Kawhi.

Thanks.


Yeah if they can wait until the 30 days they’re fine, which is what everyone assumed was happening when this first came out, and why that woj report was surprising.

There’s no rush from the Lakers standpoint, but the Pelicans have reasons to want to get it done ASAP. They get a larger trade exception, if they want to trade #4 then the team trading for it might not like having to delay a month getting that guy in house.

If they really agreed to that timing (or the Pelicans thought they had) then I imagine the Lakers would have to give some more compensation for waiting. Either way it seems pretty sloppy by the Lakers to not make this clear before it was leaked.



I just received this cap analysis from a Lakers fan (Dr. Aki) on the general board. So it appears, if the Sham Sports capulator is correct, the Lakers can offer Leonard, Jimmy or Kemba $32 mil if they do it on or before July 6. So our sales pitch, I suppose, is five years and an additional $35-$40 mil for the fifth year.

Is the capulation (sic) reliable?

Thanks

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=15139601345d07a060de9de773882579
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,441
And1: 11,830
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#570 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:04 pm

hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
People on the Lakers board, including their mods, are disputing Woj's report. There seems to be
some question about why the rush to July 6 rather than wait 30 days. Something about a "moratorium".
If they were to wait 30 days, according to my paraphrase, their cap number could go up to $32 mil,
thus giving them a better shot a quality free agent.

Does this make any sense to you? It impacts us because Jimmy, theoretically, could accept a slightly
lower offer (not that he will), thus be in play for the Lakers. Ditto I suppose for Kemba Walker, Kyrie
and Kawhi.

Thanks.


Yeah if they can wait until the 30 days they’re fine, which is what everyone assumed was happening when this first came out, and why that woj report was surprising.

There’s no rush from the Lakers standpoint, but the Pelicans have reasons to want to get it done ASAP. They get a larger trade exception, if they want to trade #4 then the team trading for it might not like having to delay a month getting that guy in house.

If they really agreed to that timing (or the Pelicans thought they had) then I imagine the Lakers would have to give some more compensation for waiting. Either way it seems pretty sloppy by the Lakers to not make this clear before it was leaked.



I just received this cap analysis from a Lakers fan (Dr. Aki) on the general board. So it appears, if the Sham Sports capulator is correct, the Lakers can offer Leonard, Jimmy or Kemba $32 mil if they do it on or before July 6. So our sales pitch, I suppose, is five years and an additional $35-$40 mil for the fifth year.

Is the capulation (sic) reliable?

Thanks

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=15139601345d07a060de9de773882579


They can only have max cap space to sign someone if they wait to do the AD trade until after they use the cap space, and can use the #4 pick’s salary are part of matching AD’s contract in the trade, which can happen on 7/30 at the earliest.

If the trade happens on 7/6 as reported, they won’t have enough space to sign someone.
hookshot199
Veteran
Posts: 2,938
And1: 605
Joined: Jun 16, 2014
   

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#571 » by hookshot199 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:43 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Yeah if they can wait until the 30 days they’re fine, which is what everyone assumed was happening when this first came out, and why that woj report was surprising.

There’s no rush from the Lakers standpoint, but the Pelicans have reasons to want to get it done ASAP. They get a larger trade exception, if they want to trade #4 then the team trading for it might not like having to delay a month getting that guy in house.

If they really agreed to that timing (or the Pelicans thought they had) then I imagine the Lakers would have to give some more compensation for waiting. Either way it seems pretty sloppy by the Lakers to not make this clear before it was leaked.



I just received this cap analysis from a Lakers fan (Dr. Aki) on the general board. So it appears, if the Sham Sports capulator is correct, the Lakers can offer Leonard, Jimmy or Kemba $32 mil if they do it on or before July 6. So our sales pitch, I suppose, is five years and an additional $35-$40 mil for the fifth year.

Is the capulation (sic) reliable?

Thanks

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=15139601345d07a060de9de773882579



They can only have max cap space to sign someone if they wait to do the AD trade until after they use the cap space, and can use the #4 pick’s salary are part of matching AD’s contract in the trade, which can happen on 7/30 at the earliest.

If the trade happens on 7/6 as reported, they won’t have enough space to sign someone.


Thank you. My interest of course extends beyond whether we lose Butler. I'm resigned to giving him
his big pay despite the fact he turns 30 in September. But the possibility of creating another super
team is disheartening.

I don't believe Griffin "owes" the Lakers anything. But it does come down to what he agreed regarding
July 6. But unless some of those future unprotected picks/swaps were conditional on consummating
the trade on July 30, then there's no rational self interest for Griffin to be an enabler to create another
super team, one that the Pelicans will have to play three times a year.

Also, it is not possible to put myself into how Leonard, Butler, Walker Irving think about four-year vs
five-year contract, but my sense is that they don't want to be underpaid by $35 mil plus or minus.

As for Leonard, he doesn't have to prove anything unlike KD and LeBron (when LeBron went to Miami).
He won his championship. He's now at the top of the world.

Again, thank you for your explanation.
VDT
Senior
Posts: 551
And1: 323
Joined: Oct 13, 2018

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#572 » by VDT » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:20 pm

It's remarkablehow much difference even a year makes in the NBA.

A year ago the Warriors were the undisputed favorites for the title, this year most people have written them off already.

Celtics were the big favorites to win the East and now they are going nowhere and hope that Brown and Tatum will develop into something.

Conversely the Raptors were seen as the treadmill team par excellence and now they are champions. Similarly for the Bucks who had just finished a disappointing year and turned it completely around.

It goes to show how futile it is to make long term predictions and how nothing is certain in the NBA.
djsunyc
RealGM
Posts: 56,086
And1: 29,178
Joined: Dec 28, 2003

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#573 » by djsunyc » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:04 am

Eyeamok wrote:The stars are aligned for the 76ers to make their best push ever next season. Hakeem Olajuwon capitalized on his opportunity when MJ was out of the league. Embiid needs to lead the team and capitalize on the opportunity in front of him and them.

Anyone in the know. Can Kawhi Leonard sign a 1+1 contract this off season. Would their be any advantages for him doing that besides having a chance to repeat?

And I wonder how the Spurs are feeling right about now.


1 + 1 doesn't maximize his potential salary if he leaves toronto. 1 + 1 only benefits him in toronto. he would have to do a 1+1 then opt out and sign another 1+1 like durant did to get his supermax.
djsunyc
RealGM
Posts: 56,086
And1: 29,178
Joined: Dec 28, 2003

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#574 » by djsunyc » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:07 am

VDT wrote:Well that was a bit disappointing. You usually need luck to win a title and we didnt have any.

The Raptors were lucky they were able to capitalize on the Leonard situation and they were lucky with the injuries their opponent faced. That was enough to win the title despite not being the best team.

This win should give hope to any treadmill team in the league.


going from bad to mediocre isn't that tough.
going from mediocre to good isn't that easy.
going from good to great is really tough.
going from great to elite is almost impossible.

raptors were a great team prior to this season but the kawhi deal pushed them to elite.

sixers right now are almost great. a full season with butler/harris may prove for them to be great. either ben simmons will have to learn to shoot or you acquire a pg that can shoot will be the difference between great and elite.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,441
And1: 11,830
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#575 » by Sixerscan » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:19 am

djsunyc wrote:
VDT wrote:Well that was a bit disappointing. You usually need luck to win a title and we didnt have any.

The Raptors were lucky they were able to capitalize on the Leonard situation and they were lucky with the injuries their opponent faced. That was enough to win the title despite not being the best team.

This win should give hope to any treadmill team in the league.


going from bad to mediocre isn't that tough.
going from mediocre to good isn't that easy.
going from good to great is really tough.
going from great to elite is almost impossible.

raptors were a great team prior to this season but the kawhi deal pushed them to elite.

sixers right now are almost great. a full season with butler/harris may prove for them to be great. either ben simmons will have to learn to shoot or you acquire a pg that can shoot will be the difference between great and elite.


We should figure out a different word than treadmill for that the Raptors were. When I think treadmill I think the Pistons now or the Sixers preprocess. A team that's winning 50+ year after year isn't on the treadmill.
mjkvol
Ballboy
Posts: 39
And1: 21
Joined: Apr 13, 2019
     

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#576 » by mjkvol » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:59 am

BullyKing wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
It's the LeJerk factor, plain and simple.

I don't see how LeBron James has done a thing to be labeled a jerk. He was the best HS player of the last 25 years. He sent his HS friends to school and helped them become successful, instead of giving his money to strangers like other athletes. He worked to be the best on the planet at his profession, and he's decided where he wants it play, instead of letting GMs control his career. Not one jerky thing in that list.


Agree with Lloyd here. He's also been a tremendous role model. Never been involved in an off the court issue of any kind and puts the money where his mouth is as an activist (read about the public school he opened). If you don't like the power he's managed to grab in how the teams he is on are run, blame the owners/GMs that permitted it, not the guy who is just trying to take as much control over his career as others are allowing.


I hear you guys. I completely respect the way he has helped his friends, worked hard and earned everything he has gotten, although I won't go so far as to pat someone on the back for 'staying out of trouble'.

I just don't like the whole 'superteam' thing that he started, the fact that he's allowed to essentially run the franchises he plays for (while understanding that it's the teams that let this happen), and how incredibly self absorbed he is. Great player? Undoubtedly, but one I don't enjoy watching.
User avatar
Mik317
RealGM
Posts: 27,013
And1: 8,523
Joined: May 31, 2005
Location: In your head....you have issues breh
       

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#577 » by Mik317 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:07 am

Superteams have existed since the league was formed. The main difference was that the GMs set it up, whereas now its the players.

People need to realize that when you **** on players for not winning, they will attempt to win by any means. LeBron getting called a choke artist more than likely led to him joining Wade in Miami. Same w/ KD.

Gotta hope Kawhii winning leads to a shift in perception.

also we as Sixers fans damn sure cannot be mad at Superteams since that was legit the whole point of the process in a way.
#NeverGonnaBeGood
mjkvol
Ballboy
Posts: 39
And1: 21
Joined: Apr 13, 2019
     

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#578 » by mjkvol » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:28 am

Mik317 wrote:Superteams have existed since the league was formed. The main difference was that the GMs set it up, whereas now its the players.

People need to realize that when you **** on players for not winning, they will attempt to win by any means. LeBron getting called a choke artist more than likely led to him joining Wade in Miami. Same w/ KD.

Gotta hope Kawhii winning leads to a shift in perception.

also we as Sixers fans damn sure cannot be mad at Superteams since that was legit the whole point of the process in a way.


My reference to 'superteams' was star players meeting in hotel rooms plotting to sign together someplace. The Process was nothing like that, it was sacrificing short term results in order to accumulate assets to hopefully build a championship contender.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 40,212
And1: 12,752
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#579 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:55 am

I believe, the Lakers did the trade so they can have enough cap space before the trade to sign their third star.

Are they targeting Jimmy? Who knows. All i can say is we put ourselves the best position with a 5th year max contract. It’s a risk worth taking even if Jimmy walks away from that.

In the end, most here are realistic or mature enough to realize that we need a 5 year max deal to retain jimmy. And maybe Tobias.

If we play like a superteam. Like the most talented team in the league. I dont have any problems with that.

Our ownership is probably the most committed in the entire league and they can show it by taking that risk by overpaying both Jimmy and Tobias. It’s a much better proposition that overpaying guys like Greg Buckner and etc. like during the olden days
Twitter: Pjeffersonlim| S i x e r s |
¨Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.¨
- Marcus Aurelius
Eyeamok
Veteran
Posts: 2,744
And1: 1,225
Joined: Mar 02, 2006

Re: Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs) 

Post#580 » by Eyeamok » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:05 pm

mjkvol wrote:
Mik317 wrote:Superteams have existed since the league was formed. The main difference was that the GMs set it up, whereas now its the players.

People need to realize that when you **** on players for not winning, they will attempt to win by any means. LeBron getting called a choke artist more than likely led to him joining Wade in Miami. Same w/ KD.

Gotta hope Kawhii winning leads to a shift in perception.

also we as Sixers fans damn sure cannot be mad at Superteams since that was legit the whole point of the process in a way.


My reference to 'superteams' was star players meeting in hotel rooms plotting to sign together someplace. The Process was nothing like that, it was sacrificing short term results in order to accumulate assets to hopefully build a championship contender.


The Process has many forms and shapes. What we witnessed was the tear down and building stage. When Joel goes to the all star game and tells Antetokounmpo, you should sign with the 76ers. That is just the "joke" icing on the cake. But you best believe the star players are talking to one another about the possibility of teaming up and "one day" and seeing who likes who. Players share agents and trainers they talk all the time. It's the part of the process we don't see on a daily basis but it happens.
You want it to be one way....but it's the other way.

Marlo

“People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.”

Andrew Smith

Return to Philadelphia 76ers