Around the League Discussion - 2018-2019 (Playoffs)

[Ben]

99% of Ujiri’s career is building a mediocre team such as what Ed Stefanski did.

...then he got lucky with Kawhi.

What he did was mostly finding role players to surround the core guys that his predecessor added.

Aside from everything else, how could trading for Kawhi Leonard possibly be considered luck? They gave up a lot on paper while also ridding themselves of a highly paid player whose supposed superstar appeal I could never quite understand (DeRozan)-- so in other words, they (Ujiri) consolidated their talent. And they put a sufficiently winning team and culture around Kawhi that it's not ridiculous to suppose he'll re-sign there. What's lucky about that?

[ProcessDoctor]

Dame time! Love watching this dude play.

[djsunyc]

You are looking at it the wrong way. Toronto has had the most success in their short history and this year they have a very good chance to reach the finals. That is better than most teams can show in the last couple decades. Even if Kwahi leaves next year Masai's tenure is still (well) above average.

His manoeuvring of existing pieces to shape them into something workable is really good. But hasn't built anything in either or his stops. And this Kawhi thing is a house of cards that will end with him being left with nothing.

what do you mean when you say he "hasn't built anything"?

and what is your criteria for evaluating gm's? w/l? championships? what are your parameters for critique?

[djsunyc]

99% of Ujiri’s career is building a mediocre team such as what Ed Stefanski did.

...then he got lucky with Kawhi.

What he did was mostly finding role players to surround the core guys that his predecessor added.

Aside from everything else, how could trading for Kawhi Leonard possibly be considered luck? They gave up a lot on paper while also ridding themselves of a highly paid player whose supposed superstar appeal I could never quite understand (DeRozan)-- so in other words, they (Ujiri) consolidated their talent. And they put a sufficiently winning team and culture around Kawhi that it's not ridiculous to suppose he'll re-sign there. What's lucky about that?

luck is part of being successful in the nba. it should not be discounted or disregarded. luck got gsw durant and 2 more titles (maybe 3). you can't win big in this league w/o luck of varying degrees.

lowry + dd + casey ran it's course. toronto is not a hotbed for UFA's and the only way to get a caliber of player like kawhi is when something like this happens. trading derozan was not an easy choice - especially considering there were no guarantees w/ kawhi's health or how he was going to approach this mentally. it was a super gutsy move to part with a fan, organizational and city favorite all star in derozan for someone that's 99% a one and done. okc's gamble paid off with george so making the kawhi move wasn't an all in type of situation - it was more a let's take a swing and see what happens.

and there are no unrealistic expectations going forward. you bring the guy in house, show them the quality of your organization and what the team is all about and see if he wants to re-sign or not. whereas you may not even get a sitdown in free agency or only have a few hours to sell him on your franchise. outside of signing someplace with KD, there's really no other hands down definite better basketball situation than in toronto. i think everyone realizes that his decision to leave, as he's said numerous times, is going to be based on what's best for him and his family. all realistically thinking raptor fans believe he's leaving regardless of what happens this year. and that's OK b/c that just shifts our retool/rebuild from 2 years away (derozan's expiration) to next year as lowry + ibaka + gasol also expire...which allows us to go in many different directions w/o any long term handcuffs.

[76ciology]

Celts starting unit has negative netrtg. Its their bench units that have been killing the pacers. I want to say that they have the dna of weak playoff team but you know how they can become a superteam if they face us. Idont see them beating the bucks, on paper

[itsme23]

Raps have been one of the most successful teams in the NBA the last five years. Only one team can win a championship each year and it’s usually a super stacked team.

Regardless Ujiri has done a masterful job in Toronto and Philly will definitely have their hands full with that squad.

[Kobblehead]

Raps have been one of the most successful teams in the NBA the last five years..

With Colangelo's building blocks and coaching staff.

[itsme23]

As you seen in Philly Colangelo is not the greatest GM. Yes some of the pieces were Colangelos but his genius idea was pairing Demar Rudy and Bargnani as his deadly trio. As well he was bigger on Calderon than Lowry.

Additionally he gave out first round picks like it was hot cakes. If he never did that Giannis would be in Toronto as Ujiri had a massive hard on for Giannis and was desperately trying to make a trade that year to get a first round pick so he could take Giannis.

[Kobblehead]

I feel bad for Donovan Mitchell. This Utah team is sooooo talent-less.

I don't want to see Rudy Gobert complaining about not making an all-star team and he better not sniff an all-NBA team ever again. Dude is the definition of just a good starter. There's nothing special or difference-making about him.

I've never seen such a toothless 50-win team before.

[Bum Adebayo]

I feel bad for Donovan Mitchell. This Utah team is sooooo talent-less.

I don't want to see Rudy Gobert complaining about not making an all-star team and he better not sniff an all-NBA team ever again. Dude is the definition of just a good starter. There's nothing special or difference-making about him.

I've never seen such a toothless 50-win team before.

Gobert should just stop focusing on being a great defender and improve massively his offensive game, it is where the game is headed, stop caring about defense and work your ass off trying to improve your jumpshot and scoring arsenal.

[durka]

99% of Ujiri’s career is building a mediocre team such as what Ed Stefanski did.

...then he got lucky with Kawhi.

What he did was mostly finding role players to surround the core guys that his predecessor added.

He sat on his hands a lot with DD and Casey, definitely, but he also put a development system in place that consistently turns late round picks into serviceable rotation players and has built a culture of consistent success for these young players to grow in. Literally the only first round pick he's made since being in Toronto who hasnt played meaningful rotation minutes is Bruno, who after spending 4 years developing in the raps system went to the Grizzlies this season and put up pretty decent numbers.

You can look at every draft and find a couple diamonds in the rough who turn into stars (which Masai found one of), but the fact is once you get out of the lottery just finding serviceable NBA players to burn minutes on low salaries is the goal and Masai has done that consistently. Poeltl was the only lottery pick at 9 and he went safe with him and ended up tacking him on with DD to get a top 5 player in the league.

Between 2015-2017 he got the players who have all been rotation contributors:

Delon Wright - 20
Norm Powell - 46
Pascal Siakam - 27
Fred Van Vleet - Undrafted
OG Anunoby - 23

None of those players are huge steals other than Siakam, but they have all played a roll in the Raps being considered one of the deepest teams in the league for the past couple years and all have the same low maintenance, high work ethic type of personality that has seen all of them make improvements in their games as well as building a strong team camraderie. Hard for me to consider that luck. Luck is Bryan Colangelo making 3 number 1 overall picks in 11 years and he could only find 1 star out of those picks (also a touchy subject for us Raps fans )

[Kobblehead]

As you seen in Philly Colangelo is not the greatest GM. Yes some of the pieces were Colangelos but his genius idea was pairing Demar Rudy and Bargnani as his deadly trio. As well he was bigger on Calderon than Lowry.

Additionally he gave out first round picks like it was hot cakes. If he never did that Giannis would be in Toronto as Ujiri had a massive hard on for Giannis and was desperately trying to make a trade that year to get a first round pick so he could take Giannis.

My whole point is that the transition points tell a lot about the job a particular GM does during his tenure.

From Ujiri to Connelly in Denver: Barren wasteland. Tim had to acquire every single building block that they currently have. Ujiri left him nothing.

From Colangelo to Ujiri: Fully-stocked cupboard. Ujiri coasted FOR YEARS on the player and coaching personnel that Colangelo had in place. It was only until last summer that he finally attempted to put his own fingerprints on this team. The Kawhi trade. Which is likely to end in no championship and no re-signing. So he'll wind up getting nothing out of that.

So if he were to leave for the Lakers job or get fired this summer and the next guy takes over, Pascal Siakam will be the only thing in place for the next guy.

He doesn't build anything in any of his stops. Just a highly overrated GM, in my opinion.

[Kobblehead]

Gobert should just stop focusing on being a great defender and improve massively his offensive game, it is where the game is headed, stop caring about defense and work your ass off trying to improve your jumpshot and scoring arsenal.

Great "defender" is overselling him. He's a great rim protector and shot blocker. Have you seen him in space? He gets eaten alive.

[Bum Adebayo]

Gobert should just stop focusing on being a great defender and improve massively his offensive game, it is where the game is headed, stop caring about defense and work your ass off trying to improve your jumpshot and scoring arsenal.

Great "defender" is overselling him. He's a great rim protector and shot blocker. Have you seen him in space? He gets eaten alive.

Yeah but it doesn't really matter, defense is overrated, all you have to do is outscore your opponent. So Gobert has the wrong approach.

[Kobblehead]

Gobert didn't become a defensive player based on the approach he decided to take. He just has freakishly long arms, bro.

He doesn't have the actual talent to make a difference on the basketball court without his long arms blocking balls.

He's not in the same class as talented bigs like Embiid, Davis, Cousins, Towns, Jokic, Ayton, Vucevic, etc.

Yet he thinks he should achieve the same accolades as them. I don't get it.

[Bum Adebayo]

Gobert didn't become a defensive player based on the approach he decided to take. He just has freakishly long arms, bro.

He doesn't have the actual talent to make a difference on the basketball court without his long arms blocking balls.

He's not in the same class as talented bigs like Embiid, Davis, Cousins, Towns, Jokic, Ayton, Vucevic, etc.

Yet he thinks he should achieve the same accolades as them. I don't get it.

I do, he thinks he is still in the 90's where defensive inmobile bigs are superstars, he thinks by just roaming in the paint and blocking many shots he is a top 5 player, when the reality is, you are nothing in today's game if you are not bombing 3pt shots left and right and scoring tons of points, and worse if you can't defend in space. He still thinks defense is as important as offense ROFL
He should learn from Devin Booker and Towns how to truly play the game, you just focus on being a beast offensively and don't give a **** about defense, it is a waste of time better invested in learning to shoot and improve scoring arsenal.

[76ciology]

99% of Ujiri’s career is building a mediocre team such as what Ed Stefanski did.

...then he got lucky with Kawhi.

What he did was mostly finding role players to surround the core guys that his predecessor added.

He sat on his hands a lot with DD and Casey, definitely, but he also put a development system in place that consistently turns late round picks into serviceable rotation players and has built a culture of consistent success for these young players to grow in. Literally the only first round pick he's made since being in Toronto who hasnt played meaningful rotation minutes is Bruno, who after spending 4 years developing in the raps system went to the Grizzlies this season and put up pretty decent numbers.

You can look at every draft and find a couple diamonds in the rough who turn into stars (which Masai found one of), but the fact is once you get out of the lottery just finding serviceable NBA players to burn minutes on low salaries is the goal and Masai has done that consistently. Poeltl was the only lottery pick at 9 and he went safe with him and ended up tacking him on with DD to get a top 5 player in the league.

Between 2015-2017 he got the players who have all been rotation contributors:

Delon Wright - 20
Norm Powell - 46
Pascal Siakam - 27
Fred Van Vleet - Undrafted
OG Anunoby - 23

None of those players are huge steals other than Siakam, but they have all played a roll in the Raps being considered one of the deepest teams in the league for the past couple years and all have the same low maintenance, high work ethic type of personality that has seen all of them make improvements in their games as well as building a strong team camraderie. Hard for me to consider that luck. Luck is Bryan Colangelo making 3 number 1 overall picks in 11 years and he could only find 1 star out of those picks (also a touchy subject for us Raps fans )

I get what you mean. He’s good. But he’s not THAT good. We saw hundreds of role players you mentioned for the last decade. We are used to it that personally i dont appreciate the “achievement” in acquiring them. For instance, last season BC got us JJ, Beli and Ilya. 3 guys who are huge for our team. Maybe top 2-4 guys in our playoff run. But its just normal to us.

[76ciology]

Gobert should just stop focusing on being a great defender and improve massively his offensive game, it is where the game is headed, stop caring about defense and work your ass off trying to improve your jumpshot and scoring arsenal.

Great "defender" is overselling him. He's a great rim protector and shot blocker. Have you seen him in space? He gets eaten alive.

Yeah but it doesn't really matter, defense is overrated, all you have to do is outscore your opponent. So Gobert has the wrong approach.

Right approach if he plays to his DNA which is a role player.

[Sixerscan]

The Jazz are averaging like 95 ppg I'm not sure if Gobert's defense is really the problem. Yeah he's not a 2nd option but I don't think he should have to be.

The Jazz have the same issue the Sixers had with Iverson post 01 only Mitchell isn't as good. They need to find someone else that can create efficiently while not taking much away from their defense. I don't think Tobias is going anywhere but he would be great for them.

[cool93]

Gobert didn't become a defensive player based on the approach he decided to take. He just has freakishly long arms, bro.

He doesn't have the actual talent to make a difference on the basketball court without his long arms blocking balls.

He's not in the same class as talented bigs like Embiid, Davis, Cousins, Towns, Jokic, Ayton, Vucevic, etc.

Yet he thinks he should achieve the same accolades as them. I don't get it.

I do, he thinks he is still in the 90's where defensive inmobile bigs are superstars, he thinks by just roaming in the paint and blocking many shots he is a top 5 player, when the reality is, you are nothing in today's game if you are not bombing 3pt shots left and right and scoring tons of points, and worse if you can't defend in space. He still thinks defense is as important as offense ROFL
He should learn from Devin Booker and Towns how to truly play the game, you just focus on being a beast offensively and don't give a **** about defense, it is a waste of time better invested in learning to shoot and improve scoring arsenal.

Everyone should learn from Booker and Towns. Those are true winners!!

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