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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1501 » by LloydFree » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:28 pm

youngcrev wrote:Prime Rondo vs Zach LaVine, who you got?

Prime Rondo almost singlehandedly won the 2010 finals against a stacked Kobe-Lakers team, with an injured Celtics team. Zach Lavine nearly led a team to 30 wins once.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1502 » by 76ciology » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:16 pm

LloydFree wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Prime Rondo vs Zach LaVine, who you got?

Prime Rondo almost singlehandedly won the 2010 finals against a stacked Kobe-Lakers team, with an injured Celtics team. Zach Lavine nearly led a team to 30 wins once.


Well to be fair. There’s a big gap between Bobby Portis and Kevin Garnett
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1503 » by ankle420breaker » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:18 pm

Prime Rondo was better, but it's tough to judge Lavine on his body of work considering he's only played for scrub teams. He's gradually improved since his rookie year. Not a complete player, but the man is becoming one of the league's premier wing scorers.

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1504 » by Bum Adebayo » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:47 pm

Kobble is heavily biased towards scoring, nothing wrong with that, it's just that there is more to the game than just that. Ricky Rubio has improved Suns, he is a winning player, because it is not all about PPG.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1505 » by 76ciology » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:15 pm

Yeah. Prime rondo needs 2-3 top tier allstars to win. So does Ben.

Too bad. What we need is a Paul Pierce.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1506 » by eagereyez » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:22 pm

youngcrev wrote:
Ayman78 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
The rational ones wouldn't consider it. But there's quite a few that would.

The only rational for 76ers is that they need a player who can be a legit number 2 scorer to play off Joel Embied. The better options for the 76ers for Simmons would be either D'Angelo Russell or Bradley Beal would likely to be a straight up player for player swope. Whereas the Bulls would likely have to include additional assets to make up a rational trade offer. Plus if you look at the numbers Lavine, Beal and Russell have similar offensive stat lines.


Trading Simmons for any of those guys lowers the ceiling of the team. Beal probably makes you immediately a little better, Russell about the same (just different), and LaVine makes you worse. Ben's just gotta shoot the damn ball. Only way he gets moved is if a legit star wants out.
Okay, say Simmons starts shooting. He currently averages <60% from the line, there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that he is shooting with the wrong hand, and he is a career 0/17 from 3 (although a lot of those are heaves). What do you realistically expect to happen? Because all of these things suggest that if/when Simmons decides to shoot 3s, he is going to miss. A lot. And if someone sucks at shooting 3s, don't you think opposing defenses will want that person to shoot more 3s?

I just don't see how Simmons shooting is going to help the team, unless he is good at it.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1507 » by Negrodamus » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:24 pm

I wish our issue wasn't scoring so we didn't have to talk about it so much, but overwhelmingly every championship team has had an elite scorer or at least elite efficiency from said scorer. And that scope has gotten even more narrower in today's NBA with the scorers largely coming from the perimeter.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1508 » by phillynative » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:06 pm

76ciology wrote:Yeah. Prime rondo needs 2-3 top tier allstars to win. So does Ben.

Too bad. What we need is a Paul Pierce.


Or a Ray Allen?
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1509 » by youngcrev » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:56 pm

eagereyez wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Ayman78 wrote:The only rational for 76ers is that they need a player who can be a legit number 2 scorer to play off Joel Embied. The better options for the 76ers for Simmons would be either D'Angelo Russell or Bradley Beal would likely to be a straight up player for player swope. Whereas the Bulls would likely have to include additional assets to make up a rational trade offer. Plus if you look at the numbers Lavine, Beal and Russell have similar offensive stat lines.


Trading Simmons for any of those guys lowers the ceiling of the team. Beal probably makes you immediately a little better, Russell about the same (just different), and LaVine makes you worse. Ben's just gotta shoot the damn ball. Only way he gets moved is if a legit star wants out.
Okay, say Simmons starts shooting. He currently averages <60% from the line, there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that he is shooting with the wrong hand, and he is a career 0/17 from 3 (although a lot of those are heaves). What do you realistically expect to happen? Because all of these things suggest that if/when Simmons decides to shoot 3s, he is going to miss. A lot. And if someone sucks at shooting 3s, don't you think opposing defenses will want that person to shoot more 3s?

I just don't see how Simmons shooting is going to help the team, unless he is good at it.


Its likely to be an inefficient shot, but defenses still react to bad shooters. And he's not going to get any better at it by continuing to not shoot it. Seems like he actively avoids even standing in that corner 3 spot, as well as avoids contact on drives because he doesnt want to go to the line.

It's more just a lack of aggressiveness than anything.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1510 » by Bum Adebayo » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:00 pm

The rationale of the "experts" is that you don't need to shoot in games, you get better just practicing jump shots. Then after 5 or 6 years, you play a game and then bam, start draining jumpers, no need to shoot in 6 years before that.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1511 » by 76ciology » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:04 pm

phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:Yeah. Prime rondo needs 2-3 top tier allstars to win. So does Ben.

Too bad. What we need is a Paul Pierce.


Or a Ray Allen?


We already have that in Korkmaz. Please dont disrespect the korklord.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1512 » by youngcrev » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:21 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:The rationale of the "experts" is that you don't need to shoot in games, you get better just practicing jump shots. Then after 5 or 6 years, you play a game and then bam, start draining jumpers, no need to shoot in 6 years before that.


He's just got to do it. The longer he waits the worse the pressure is going to become. LeBron shot 29% on 2.7 attempts per game his rookie year. Giannis shot 25.6% on 2.8 attempts last year. You don't have to perfect. The defense is still going to play you to take the shot. But they'll at least pay some level of attention to you.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1513 » by Wilfried » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:59 pm

You can't master something if you don't practice ...

The only thing I can say about this situation
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1514 » by Kobblehead » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:05 pm

youngcrev wrote:Prime Rondo vs Zach LaVine, who you got?

Us rational folk would take Zach, amirite?
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1515 » by VDT » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:10 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:The rationale of the "experts" is that you don't need to shoot in games, you get better just practicing jump shots. Then after 5 or 6 years, you play a game and then bam, start draining jumpers, no need to shoot in 6 years before that.



I think the argument is that if you are a bad shooter during the practice, where you are not tired, noone is guarding and you have the luxury of shooting multiple times from the same spot then chances are you are going to be a terrible in game shooter. I think in practice Dwight was like an 80 per cent ft shooter.

Generally you first become good in practice and then try to see how much this translates in actual games.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1516 » by Kobblehead » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:14 pm

76ciology wrote:Yeah. Prime rondo needs 2-3 top tier allstars to win. So does Ben.

Too bad. What we need is a Paul Pierce.


Prime Rondo wasn't even a factor into whether or not the Celtics won. He was just there for the ride.

Would the Celtics be any different if you transported Ricky Rubio, Lonzo Ball or Elfrid Payton onto those late-2000s squads? Definitely not.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1517 » by Kobblehead » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:15 pm

Wilfried wrote:You can't master something if you don't practice ...

The only thing I can say about this situation

This. Just start shooting them. Do what Aaron Gordon did. Eventually you may approach mid-30s percentages and you're fine.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1518 » by Kobblehead » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:29 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:Kobble is heavily biased towards scoring, nothing wrong with that, it's just that there is more to the game than just that. Ricky Rubio has improved Suns, he is a winning player, because it is not all about PPG.

Because I want to win a championship. Nobody in NBA history won a championship without a guy that can go on the ball and score from multiple levels in the halfcourt.

I threw the towel in on us getting a complete player that can score from all levels, defend, pass and rebound. That ship sailed when Paul George and Kawhi Leonard didn't show interest. And when we passed on Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in favor of one of Kevin Knox, Mikal Bridges and Zhaire Smith on draft night.

Now I just want an all-level scorer that we can pair with Embiid to give us a reasonable shot at a championship. So a Zach Lavine, Collin Sexton or C.J. McCollum has become our last chance. Give Embiid a shot, man. He has no shot right now. Even Giannis at least has an Eric Bledsoe. We have nobody.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1519 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:30 pm

phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:Yeah. Prime rondo needs 2-3 top tier allstars to win. So does Ben.

Too bad. What we need is a Paul Pierce.


Or a Ray Allen?


Or a Jimmy Butler? Oh, wait...
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#1520 » by dc » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:30 am

Wilfried wrote:You can't master something if you don't practice ...

The only thing I can say about this situation


Actually, Simmons has practiced PLENTY. I'm pretty sure he's devoted entire offseasons to practicing his shot. That's not his problem. His problem is that he won't even attempt anything during a game.
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