The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III

[snoopdogg88]

this "Simmons didn't work hard last summer" is such revisionist history nonsense.

we saw just as many sweaty workout videos and whispers of "he's actually working on his jumper" last summer too.

i'll believe it when I see it.

[PhillyPhilly]

Well Ben did work on his game last summer but the problem was he was reluctant to work with shooting coaches and Stephen A Smith suggested that any coach the organisation sent to him to help his shot he would give them an hour and send them away. Stephen also said that Ben was embarrassed to practice shooting around people hence the reason why he appointed his brother as his coach. Looks like his done a complete 180 this summer though by working closely with coach Johnson and also THIS is very encouraging as well. I think Wade may be the first pro that Ben has worked with one to one so hopefully Dwayne doesn't beat around the bush and just tells Ben what he needs to hear. Just looking at his insta page and he posted this

And he's still shooting left handed but the form looks a lot cleaner compared to how it normally looks...

IF he gets his form and release sorted out then maybe we might see the jumper he had in his rookie season...

Watch on YouTube

[USWAY]

Watching the video above is insane. Makes me a little sick thinking about about how unguardable he'd be if he could shoot and that last year was seemingly a regression. The speed/size/passing IQ combination with an ability to hit a 15-foot jumpshot would immediately make him top 20

[76ciology]

I think he will be able to shoot spot up that will allow him to be in games when the game needs a 3. Kind of like how Draymond started shooting early on.

I dont expect him to be shooting off the dribble. Still not fluid enough for him to pull that off

[Ericb5]

Stephen A said he was told by Rich Paul that Ben is working "very very hard, which was not the case last year." I normally don't give SAS much credibility but this jives too much with what we heard last year and what we saw last year.

Hope Ben's finally realized he can't coast anymore on just his physical gifts. Maybe Brown abandoning him for Jimmy in the playoffs was the kick in the a** he needed.

He said he was working very hard on his shot, which wasn’t the case last year. He always works hard, but they didn’t make his shot to primary focus last year.


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[Ericb5]

Stephen A said he was told by Rich Paul that Ben is working "very very hard, which was not the case last year." I normally don't give SAS much credibility but this jives too much with what we heard last year and what we saw last year.

Hope Ben's finally realized he can't coast anymore on just his physical gifts. Maybe Brown abandoning him for Jimmy in the playoffs was the kick in the a** he needed.

SAS said he didn’t work much last year, not because he’s not a hard worker, but because he’s so embarrassed about his jump shot he didn’t want anyone watching how much he struggles with it. Not even sure what to say about that, it’s so bizarre - but at least he has gotten past it at the moment.

That's not what he said. He added that the reason Simmons rejected help/coaching is bc he didnt want anyone to see how bad his shot was.

We all know he spent last summer cavorting with Jenner.

You guys are misrepresenting what he said.

He was reporting the information about him working on his shot more this year. He was speculating about the idea of him being so embarrassed about his shot that he didn’t want anyone to see it.

He certainly wasn’t reporting that Simmons didn’t want anyone to see him shoot.


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[Sixerscan]

Ben Simmons spends all of pregame and halftime warmups shooting jump shots. If he’s willing to practice them in front of an arena full of people I’m guessing he’s ok with doing it in front of a few coaches.

[sixers hoops]

Ben Simmons spends all of pregame and halftime warmups shooting jump shots. If he’s willing to practice them in front of an arena full of people I’m guessing he’s ok with doing it in front of a few coaches.

People equate the amount of time he puts into working on his shot, to the amount of progress they see. It’s not like losing weight where hard work generally produces results. Changing muscle memory is more like studying for a test where you can put in the hard work yet not produce the desired results.

I think Hanlon had the right idea with Fultz and it still didn’t work. Ben wants to consistently reproduce an effective shooting form without conscious thought. That take thousands of repetitions using the correct form, as his brain is trying to produce the form it has been previously taught.

First they need to teach Ben the mechanics of the form they are attempting to implement. Then he really shouldn’t be shooting a basketball unless his trainer is verifying that every attempt is using the correct mechanics of that form. Then he needs to continuously take thousands of shots until he is reproducing that form subconsciously.

Rebuilding a jumpshot is hard work. Especially when you’re not just tweaking the elbow placement, a release point, moving the guide hand, etc. With Ben they likely are teaching the entire mechanics of a new shot.

[Sixerscan]

Ben Simmons spends all of pregame and halftime warmups shooting jump shots. If he’s willing to practice them in front of an arena full of people I’m guessing he’s ok with doing it in front of a few coaches.

People equate the amount of time he puts into working on his shot, to the amount of progress they see. It’s not like losing weight where hard work generally produces results. Changing muscle memory is more like studying for a test where you can put in the hard work yet not produce the desired results.

I think Hanlon had the right idea with Fultz and it still didn’t work. Ben wants to consistently reproduce an effective shooting form without conscious thought. That take thousands of repetitions using the correct form, as his brain is trying to produce the form it has been previously taught.

First they need to teach Ben the mechanics of the form they are attempting to implement. Then he really shouldn’t be shooting a basketball unless his trainer is verifying that every attempt is using the correct mechanics of that form. Then he needs to continuously take thousands of shots until he is reproducing that form subconsciously.

Rebuilding a jumpshot is hard work. Especially when you’re not just tweaking the elbow placement, a release point, moving the guide hand, etc. With Ben they likely are teaching the entire mechanics of a new shot.

Yeah he needs to rebuild the fundamentals of his shot. I also think he should develop some sort of actual pre game routine rather than just indiscriminately hoisting jumpers. (At least as far as I can tell, maybe there's some method to it I'm missing, but I doubt it)

Obviously I can't speak to what he does outside the view of the general public, which is probably much more important.

But for anyone that says he's like, scared to practice shooting jump shots in front of people or whatever, it just tells me that that person doesn't go to games or pay attention during warmups or whatever.

[snoopdogg88]

if Ben takes his game to the next level (aka starts developing a shot), next season then the Sixers are championship contenders.

if it's more of the same, our ceiling is the same. 2nd round exit, maybe a CF appearence.

everything else is filler.

[sixers hoops]

Ben Simmons spends all of pregame and halftime warmups shooting jump shots. If he’s willing to practice them in front of an arena full of people I’m guessing he’s ok with doing it in front of a few coaches.

People equate the amount of time he puts into working on his shot, to the amount of progress they see. It’s not like losing weight where hard work generally produces results. Changing muscle memory is more like studying for a test where you can put in the hard work yet not produce the desired results.

I think Hanlon had the right idea with Fultz and it still didn’t work. Ben wants to consistently reproduce an effective shooting form without conscious thought. That take thousands of repetitions using the correct form, as his brain is trying to produce the form it has been previously taught.

First they need to teach Ben the mechanics of the form they are attempting to implement. Then he really shouldn’t be shooting a basketball unless his trainer is verifying that every attempt is using the correct mechanics of that form. Then he needs to continuously take thousands of shots until he is reproducing that form subconsciously.

Rebuilding a jumpshot is hard work. Especially when you’re not just tweaking the elbow placement, a release point, moving the guide hand, etc. With Ben they likely are teaching the entire mechanics of a new shot.

Yeah he needs to rebuild the fundamentals of his shot. I also think he should develop some sort of actual pre game routine rather than just indiscriminately hoisting jumpers. (At least as far as I can tell, maybe there's some method to it I'm missing, but I doubt it)

Obviously I can't speak to what he does outside the view of the general public, which is probably much more important.

But for anyone that says he's like, scared to practice shooting jump shots in front of people or whatever, it just tells me that that person doesn't go to games or pay attention during warmups or whatever.

Yeah. I believe he is working with another shooting coach this summer as well. I question his choice of his brother as his shooting coach. I think his brother is likely qualified to be a basketball coach; however, rebuilding a jumpshot is a complicated process, and I would like to see someone with a track record of effective strategies.

Ben is one of the most unique shooting reclamation prospects in the history of the game. I would like the best available coaches on the job.

[Bum Adebayo]

if Ben takes his game to the next level (aka starts developing a shot), next season then the Sixers are championship contenders.

if it's more of the same, our ceiling is the same. 2nd round exit, maybe a CF appearence.

everything else is filler.

Yeah, pretty much, next season we will see how much Ben wants it, if he is made for the big moments or not. Hopefully he is not a liability next year in playoffs.

[Ericb5]

if Ben takes his game to the next level (aka starts developing a shot), next season then the Sixers are championship contenders.

if it's more of the same, our ceiling is the same. 2nd round exit, maybe a CF appearence.

everything else is filler.

I agree with the first paragraph, but not the second. If it’s more of the same we are still the first or second team in the east, which means that the finals are possible.

If\when he gets a credible jump shot he will become an mvp candidate, and as long as Embiid stays healthy we will contend for titles for a long time.

I just want to see SOME improvement both at the line and on a mid range jump shots.


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[kuclas]

Watching the video above is insane. Makes me a little sick thinking about about how unguardable he'd be if he could shoot and that last year was seemingly a regression. The speed/size/passing IQ combination with an ability to hit a 15-foot jumpshot would immediately make him top 20

A 15 foot jump shot even shooting 35% would make Simmons a top 6-7 player in the league. We don’t even need him to shoot well. We just need him to shoot below average just to open up space for embiid down low.

[DaSixers]

if Ben takes his game to the next level (aka starts developing a shot), next season then the Sixers are championship contenders.

if it's more of the same, our ceiling is the same. 2nd round exit, maybe a CF appearence.

everything else is filler.

even if ben doesnt get a shot, we arent losing until the ECF at worse

[deep6er]

if Ben takes his game to the next level (aka starts developing a shot), next season then the Sixers are championship contenders.

if it's more of the same, our ceiling is the same. 2nd round exit, maybe a CF appearence.

everything else is filler.

even if ben doesnt get a shot, we arent losing until the ECF at worse

A little off topic, but let's not get into this smug over-confidence. We're not Celtics fans FFS. Anything can happen in the playoffs and having the best squad doesn't guarantee you anything.

I also disagree with your main point. This team isn't constructed like last years and without Butler and JJ, if Ben can't keep defenses honest by at least taking jumpers, we might have some real problems scoring, especially in the playoffs.

[smittybanton]

Ben Simmons Will Shoot 36% from 3pt by Age 25. I Have Time to Wait….

Because of his unique court vision and ballhandling as well as defense on one hand, coupled with his size and strength and speed and explosion on the other, Ben Simmons is a combination of Rajon Rondo and Blake Griffin, both of whom came into the league as horrible shooters and both of whom shot 36% from 3pt last year, on a healthy 3.1 and a whopping 7.1 attempts per game, respectively.

Rajon Rondo did not start hitting 3pointers at a normal clip until he turned 28 years old, hitting 35%. His career high is .376. But his first 8 years in the league, he shot plenty of three pointers and mid-range shots when he should not have, put his ego aside and passed the ball to others like Ben does.

Rondo shot .207 from 3pt as a rookie, and for years thereafter (.207, .263, .313, .213, .233, .238, .240, .289, .314, .250). Analytics suggest his teams would’ve scored more points had he not shot any during that time period. Rondo was neither a good mid-range shooter when he entered the league, hitting only .356 from 10-16ft and .279 from 16-24ft his rookie year. By comparison, Ben Simmons hit .316 from 10-16ft and .393 from 16-24ft his rookie year. So, unless the 24 second clock is expiring, both Ben Simmons and Rajon Rondo should attack the rim or pass to someone else instead of shooting a midrange shot. In fact, hardly anyone in the league is shooting mid-range shots anymore. So let’s stop asking and begging and pleading for Ben to shoot them.

Let’s also note that Rajon Rondo has become a decent 3pt shooter without being a good free throw shooter. Although Rondo’s .647 FT% as a rookie is better than Ben’s 56% as well as his 60% mark in his second year, Rondo never shot that “well” again in his career. He hit .638 last year, and bottomed out at .333 some years ago. Ben Simmons has not regressed. He improved from 56% to 60% from the free throw line. And he improved ever so slightly on floaters from 3-10ft, inching up from .417 to .422.

I believe Ben Simmons is very similar to Rajon Rondo as a shooter. So, I believe he will also become a good three point shooter, but in less time than it took Rondo. However, because I believe it will take Ben at least five years, I don’t expect him to shoot threes or midrange shots next year like a lot of fans are demanding. The Sixers would be lucky enough if Ben becomes as good a shooter as Blake Griffin, 36% on 7.1 attempts/gm. But even then, we should not expect to see it this season coming up.

After sitting out his rookie year just like Ben Simmons, Blake Griffin similarly had absolutely no shooting touch. Regressing from shooting .292 from 3pt his rookie year, Blake bricked 3pts for the next three years at an astoundingly bad rates, .125, .179, .273. Keep your gun in the holster, for the sake of the children! As rookies, Ben Simmons exhibited a better mid range jumper (.316, .393) than Blake (.298, .335). And Blake Griffin wasa still not a good mid range shooter even last year (.208, .333), so don’t do it.
Blake and Ben as rookies were in the same vicinity when it came to floaters (.432, Blake; .417, Ben). They were similarly bad free throw shooters their first two years: Blake shooting .642 as a rookie, and then dipping to .521 as a sophomore. Ben hit 56%, and then 60%. All together, that’s about 58% for both of them. So I don’t think it’s out of the question for Ben to improve his free throw and 3pt shooting at around the same rate as Blake Griffin. Griffin’s third year saw him make free throws at 66%, then 71.5%, 72.8%, 72.7%, finally breaking the 75% barrier his 7th year in the league (76%). His fifth year in the league, Blake broke through and shot 40% from the bean, followed by a more modest but still decent .333, .335, and .345 the following years. Last year, .362.

Therefore, if Ben’s shooting trajectory matches Blake Griffin’s, then we’re talking a 33+% 3pt shooter by year five. In the meantime, Ben Simmons must improve his ability to attack the rim off the dribble in half court. He must develop a much stronger right hand dribble. Before he switches to shooting with his right hand, like some fans want him to, I’d like him to dribble a lot better with it. Other teams have sniffed out his left hand dominance and have effectively taken him out of the playoffs the last two years because of it. Last summer he said he worked on his counter moves, and he must continue to do so. With the floor spread out by Joel and Tobi and Josh and Al Horford, Ben must also learn to dribble his man into the post and abuse him down low when the opposing defense is to constantly back off of him.

Ben, keep on working on your perimeter jimmy like you have been. But do not capitulate and take threes or mid-range jumpers until your performances in scrimmages and whatnot warrants it. Whether we have to wait until year five like with Blake Griffin or year eight like with Rajon Rondo, I have time to wait. Especially since the worse shooter of the two, Rondo, earned a championship ring off his defense while he was still a terrible shooter, because he had awesome teammates around him like Ben does this year and at least the next two thereafter.

[Simmons25]

Ben Simmons spends all of pregame and halftime warmups shooting jump shots. If he’s willing to practice them in front of an arena full of people I’m guessing he’s ok with doing it in front of a few coaches.

This is a fair point. It's one of the reasons why I don't buy the argument that he is "gutless" or "scared" to shoot.

I still think his basketball IQ was probably too high for his own good, in that he thinks if he can drive to the rim and score at 60% it makes no sense for him to take a lower percentage jumper. He is probably right on the surface in thinking that.... but of course we know this doesn't help the team in playoff basketball. Hopefully he understands that now.

Also team offense was not built around him shooting jumpers. He really was the 5th scoring option out there. It was about getting Redick open at the 3 point line and Embiid the ball in positions for him to shoot. Having Jimmy as well taking more shots in ISO. All of these plays took precedence over Ben taking a jumper. In fact there is no such thing as a play drawn up by Brett Brown for Ben to shoot a jumper. Maybe there should be if we are serious about him shooting jumpers for the sake of the team. Now with Redick and Jimmy gone perhaps putting pressure on Ben to become more of a shooter ends up becoming a good thing.

[76ciology]

At this point, he just needs to learn to shoot a stand still 3. To make him playable whenever we need a 3 or there’s a mismatch that Horford or Tobias needs to take advantage.

[51X3RF4N]

Yeah the whole "can't shoot 3s", in my mind is really more "won't shoot 3s". Who knows what his percentages would be?? He hasn't taken any. Once he consistently shoots them, we will know if he's a good shooter or not. The first step is to take them