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Brett Brown : Not Today!

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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#261 » by youngcrev » Tue May 14, 2019 2:03 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Continuity is good, but the combination of our personnel and coaching makes it impossible to execute in crunchtime possessions in games that matter.


I get that those 3 bad turnovers stand out (though Jo passed up an open shot late in the shot clock of one and Jimmy had a Gasol switch with 6 seconds on the shot clock in another), but they did score on their final 3 possessions and tied the game up in improbable fashion. The Sixers were not a bad team in the clutch once they added Jimmy. Weird what a guy that can score off the bounce at all 3 levels can do for you.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#262 » by Eyeamok » Tue May 14, 2019 2:57 pm

Just like the team Brett Brown is a coach in progress. Yes you can blame the 3 botched plays at the end of the game on him. But one of the best ways to lean is to make mistakes and learn from them. He was brought in as a coach to deal with a tanking. He kept the team together through bad times and ugly times. Under him they got to 50 a win season and then another. In that time he had to deal with changing the way he coaches because now the expectations have changed. He had to deal with a GM that did not want him there and he had to produce and change the results he was getting.

Change is hard, changing how you coach and do things is extremely hard. Don't believe me start going a different way to work tomorrow. Now imagine you have 15 guys telling you hey that's not the way we go why are we doing things this way. You get most of these guys to buy into the new way of getting to work, then boom you have to let a few of your best passengers off and let new guys on. Just as you got basically everyone used to the new way of getting to work (yes it's a big car) now you have new guys who are like coach I want to sit up front because this is how you should drive the car. Forget the route. They want to be driven a certain way. It is not easy. Change for the team and the coach does not happen 1,2,3. It's an ever evolving process. Coach Brown has has earned another season good for him and the team.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#263 » by VDT » Tue May 14, 2019 3:26 pm

People pay too much attention to coaches. Unless you have a legendary coach or a horrific coach it will not make much difference in the playoffs. Stevens was viewed as a prodigy last year and this year he failed miserably. The opposite for Rivers and the Clippers.

If anything Brown should be praised for having the team so close to the ecf finals against a team that was the favourite and with his best player sick/ injured/ generally playing poorly.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#264 » by hookshot199 » Tue May 14, 2019 3:28 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:Updated thread title for all the haters.



Stop being a jerk. People are entitled to their opinions without you sniping. You are a mod, by the way.

So clearly his players want him back - and had his back - including even Jimmy apparently. And if Jimmy's going to be our "coach" on the floor, I can live with that.

As a fan who doesn't think Brown is a good coach (it doesn't make me a "hater" any more than you a "lover" if I want to be pejorative), you made very good arguments for keeping him - the biggest being fairness (he only had his new personnel for around 25 games and Embiid missed half of those).

And secondly, I have my doubts about whether there was anyone in the wings. I'm against retreads - Thibodeau, Lue and Van Gundy - as much as most of us. And this isn't the time to bring in a newbie.

Although I was intrigued by the number of references to Jay Wright in some of the media reports, including one by The Associated Press, I suspect neither Brand nor Harris had any sort of commitment from Wright if they even broached the subject.

So in the end, I think Harris and Brand made the right decision. But before buying into it completely, I hope to see less JJ, less Embiid out at the top of the key, less Embiid shooting 3's, and more Ben learning to shoot a short jump shot. And of course: Brown practicing "load management" for Embiid and not just talking about it.


I think you took an innocuous comment not directed at you a little too personally here. It’s not that serious.


I did.

So moving on: This is twice in two years we've been outcoached in the decisive game. We didn't prepare for Ibaka. We got clobbered on the offensive boards, particularly in the second half when we played our bench (Scott and Ennis) a combined 6 minutes. We started the game with Embiid shooting four jump shots including two 3's rather than establish some sort of presence in the low post.

There is no excuse for the game coming down to a final shot. "+/-" doesn't tell about opportunities lost. Those shot clock violations at the end were, as someone pointed out, the result of trying to save a timeout if we needed it. What the poster didn't say is that we used our timeouts in an effort to play our starters only. That was the game plan.

So now we've got Brett back. Without Plan B we had no choice. so I think we made the right decision. Nevertheless, I think Brown is second tier and he's not going to change. I hope Brand promised him a top assistant. I hope Brett listens to that assistant. I also hope that Brand hires someone who can step in if things turn southward.

Home court advantage is important, but having your stars healthy is far more important. Also: developing a bench and using it. Even Toronto played its two reserves 44 minutes. Scott and Ennis played a combined 25. Hm.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#265 » by Sixerscan » Tue May 14, 2019 4:13 pm

hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:

Stop being a jerk. People are entitled to their opinions without you sniping. You are a mod, by the way.

So clearly his players want him back - and had his back - including even Jimmy apparently. And if Jimmy's going to be our "coach" on the floor, I can live with that.

As a fan who doesn't think Brown is a good coach (it doesn't make me a "hater" any more than you a "lover" if I want to be pejorative), you made very good arguments for keeping him - the biggest being fairness (he only had his new personnel for around 25 games and Embiid missed half of those).

And secondly, I have my doubts about whether there was anyone in the wings. I'm against retreads - Thibodeau, Lue and Van Gundy - as much as most of us. And this isn't the time to bring in a newbie.

Although I was intrigued by the number of references to Jay Wright in some of the media reports, including one by The Associated Press, I suspect neither Brand nor Harris had any sort of commitment from Wright if they even broached the subject.

So in the end, I think Harris and Brand made the right decision. But before buying into it completely, I hope to see less JJ, less Embiid out at the top of the key, less Embiid shooting 3's, and more Ben learning to shoot a short jump shot. And of course: Brown practicing "load management" for Embiid and not just talking about it.


I think you took an innocuous comment not directed at you a little too personally here. It’s not that serious.


I did.

So moving on: This is twice in two years we've been outcoached in the decisive game. We didn't prepare for Ibaka. We got clobbered on the offensive boards, particularly in the second half when we played our bench (Scott and Ennis) a combined 6 minutes. We started the game with Embiid shooting four jump shots including two 3's rather than establish some sort of presence in the low post.

There is no excuse for the game coming down to a final shot. "+/-" doesn't tell about opportunities lost. Those shot clock violations at the end were, as someone pointed out, the result of trying to save a timeout if we needed it. What the poster didn't say is that we used our timeouts in an effort to play our starters only. That was the game plan.

So now we've got Brett back. Without Plan B we had no choice. so I think we made the right decision. Nevertheless, I think Brown is second tier and he's not going to change. I hope Brand promised him a top assistant. I hope Brett listens to that assistant. I also hope that Brand hires someone who can step in if things turn southward.

Home court advantage is important, but having your stars healthy is far more important. Also: developing a bench and using it. Even Toronto played its two reserves 44 minutes. Scott and Ennis played a combined 25. Hm.


I think most obvious sign of bias is how every time they lose the same people always point to the coach for things that were bad and ignoring any impact he may have had on the good things. It was a one possession game on the road against a 58 win team that had the best player. You don’t get to that point with an incompetent coach screwing up all game, indeed you don’t get there without a fairly strong (not perfect obviously) game plan. But all of that is extremely secondary to the players on the court making or not making plays.

You so profoundly don’t see my point when it comes to the coach and his impact on the game that I dont see the point of debating with you.

Rather than get into the weeds with this, I would just recommend that anyone that would like a good breakdown of the various things that happened at the end of the game to listen to Zach Lowe’s most recent podcast.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#266 » by hookshot199 » Tue May 14, 2019 5:06 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
I think you took an innocuous comment not directed at you a little too personally here. It’s not that serious.


I did.

So moving on: This is twice in two years we've been outcoached in the decisive game. We didn't prepare for Ibaka. We got clobbered on the offensive boards, particularly in the second half when we played our bench (Scott and Ennis) a combined 6 minutes. We started the game with Embiid shooting four jump shots including two 3's rather than establish some sort of presence in the low post.

There is no excuse for the game coming down to a final shot. "+/-" doesn't tell about opportunities lost. Those shot clock violations at the end were, as someone pointed out, the result of trying to save a timeout if we needed it. What the poster didn't say is that we used our timeouts in an effort to play our starters only. That was the game plan.

So now we've got Brett back. Without Plan B we had no choice. so I think we made the right decision. Nevertheless, I think Brown is second tier and he's not going to change. I hope Brand promised him a top assistant. I hope Brett listens to that assistant. I also hope that Brand hires someone who can step in if things turn southward.

Home court advantage is important, but having your stars healthy is far more important. Also: developing a bench and using it. Even Toronto played its two reserves 44 minutes. Scott and Ennis played a combined 25. Hm.


I think most obvious sign of bias is how every time they lose the same people always point to the coach for things that were bad and ignoring any impact he may have had on the good things. It was a one possession game on the road against a 58 win team that had the best player. You don’t get to that point with an incompetent coach screwing up all game, indeed you don’t get there without a fairly strong (not perfect obviously) game plan. But all of that is extremely secondary to the players on the court making or not making plays.

You so profoundly don’t see my point when it comes to the coach and his impact on the game that I dont see the point of debating with you.

Rather than get into the weeds with this, I would just recommend that anyone that would like a good breakdown of the various things that happened at the end of the game to listen to Zach Lowe’s most recent podcast.


What is it with you, Sixerscan? First you call people who disagree with you "haters", then "biased". Look in a mirror.

I saw what I saw and don't need Zach Lowe to tell me what I saw.

I saw a team that didn't adjust to two defensive bigs and then got tired because we played our bench a combined six minutes in the second half. We should have had a 10-point lead given that Siakam was a no show and Lowry was playing injured.

Anyway, I don't want to get into the weeds with you because you're profoundly "biased" in my opinion - i.e., you see what you want to see and put blinders on what you don't want to see.

Enjoy your day.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#267 » by Bum Adebayo » Tue May 14, 2019 5:33 pm

When one is biased but negatively against someone on the team then it is a bad thing. When one is biased in favour of the team, then nothing wrong with it. Is this how it works? because I admit I am biased against Brett, can't stand him, but then many are biased here praising Embiid or Simmons, or when some criticize other team players for flopping but say nothing when Embiid does it, for example, or posting on/off numbers for Simmons when they are positive but then not doing it when they are negative like against Raptors.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#268 » by Sixerscan » Tue May 14, 2019 5:55 pm

hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
I did.

So moving on: This is twice in two years we've been outcoached in the decisive game. We didn't prepare for Ibaka. We got clobbered on the offensive boards, particularly in the second half when we played our bench (Scott and Ennis) a combined 6 minutes. We started the game with Embiid shooting four jump shots including two 3's rather than establish some sort of presence in the low post.

There is no excuse for the game coming down to a final shot. "+/-" doesn't tell about opportunities lost. Those shot clock violations at the end were, as someone pointed out, the result of trying to save a timeout if we needed it. What the poster didn't say is that we used our timeouts in an effort to play our starters only. That was the game plan.

So now we've got Brett back. Without Plan B we had no choice. so I think we made the right decision. Nevertheless, I think Brown is second tier and he's not going to change. I hope Brand promised him a top assistant. I hope Brett listens to that assistant. I also hope that Brand hires someone who can step in if things turn southward.

Home court advantage is important, but having your stars healthy is far more important. Also: developing a bench and using it. Even Toronto played its two reserves 44 minutes. Scott and Ennis played a combined 25. Hm.


I think most obvious sign of bias is how every time they lose the same people always point to the coach for things that were bad and ignoring any impact he may have had on the good things. It was a one possession game on the road against a 58 win team that had the best player. You don’t get to that point with an incompetent coach screwing up all game, indeed you don’t get there without a fairly strong (not perfect obviously) game plan. But all of that is extremely secondary to the players on the court making or not making plays.

You so profoundly don’t see my point when it comes to the coach and his impact on the game that I dont see the point of debating with you.

Rather than get into the weeds with this, I would just recommend that anyone that would like a good breakdown of the various things that happened at the end of the game to listen to Zach Lowe’s most recent podcast.


What is it with you, Sixerscan? First you call people who disagree with you "haters", then "biased". Look in a mirror.

I saw what I saw and don't need Zach Lowe to tell me what I saw.

I saw a team that didn't adjust to two defensive bigs and then got tired because we played our bench a combined six minutes in the second half. We should have had a 10-point lead given that Siakam was a no show and Lowry was playing injured.

Anyway, I don't want to get into the weeds with you because you're profoundly "biased" in my opinion - i.e., you see what you want to see and put blinders on what you don't want to see.

Enjoy your day.


I say you’re biased because anyone that is unbiased would be able to come up with a rational reason why he decided that he had to play his starters that much in that game, and that that is one of a million decisions and choices by the Sixers and Raptors players and coaches that decided that game. You’re so obviously starting with “the coach is why they lost” and reverse engineering the reason why that is.

There was a 0% chance of you not blaming the coach so I’m not sure why I have to take the time to poke holes in your bad faith arguments just because you responded with a long rant to an innocuous post of mine that wasn’t directed at you.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#269 » by hookshot199 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:51 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
I think most obvious sign of bias is how every time they lose the same people always point to the coach for things that were bad and ignoring any impact he may have had on the good things. It was a one possession game on the road against a 58 win team that had the best player. You don’t get to that point with an incompetent coach screwing up all game, indeed you don’t get there without a fairly strong (not perfect obviously) game plan. But all of that is extremely secondary to the players on the court making or not making plays.

You so profoundly don’t see my point when it comes to the coach and his impact on the game that I dont see the point of debating with you.

Rather than get into the weeds with this, I would just recommend that anyone that would like a good breakdown of the various things that happened at the end of the game to listen to Zach Lowe’s most recent podcast.


What is it with you, Sixerscan? First you call people who disagree with you "haters", then "biased". Look in a mirror.

I saw what I saw and don't need Zach Lowe to tell me what I saw.

I saw a team that didn't adjust to two defensive bigs and then got tired because we played our bench a combined six minutes in the second half. We should have had a 10-point lead given that Siakam was a no show and Lowry was playing injured.

Anyway, I don't want to get into the weeds with you because you're profoundly "biased" in my opinion - i.e., you see what you want to see and put blinders on what you don't want to see.

Enjoy your day.


I say you’re biased because anyone that is unbiased would be able to come up with a rational reason why he decided that he had to play his starters that much in that game, and that that is one of a million decisions and choices by the Sixers and Raptors players and coaches that decided that game. You’re so obviously starting with “the coach is why they lost” and reverse engineering the reason why that is.

There was a 0% chance of you not blaming the coach so I’m not sure why I have to take the time to poke holes in your bad faith arguments just because you responded with a long rant to an innocuous post of mine that wasn’t directed at you.



What's your problem, Sixerscan? It's an opinion board and you've got a problem with people who have
a different opinion than yours.

Truth be told, I get almost as much pleasure from a root canal than reading your blind defense of Brown.
No, I don't believe there are "rational" reasons for not using your bench - when you've already cut it to two.
And then talk nice about the two guys you didn't play.

I don't believe there are "rational" reasons for not developing a bench or for failing to get a shot off three
times toward the end of the game. But that's not new. We ranked 27th in the league in turnovers during
the regular season.

You're right. There are thousands of decisions (perhaps millions, but I don't know how to count them)
that players and coaches make during a game. The ones I pointed out - not playing your bench, letting
Embiid shoot 30% of your non-Redick 3's, and not managing your timeouts so that you can call one when
you need one - involve game strategy and game management, thus are on the coach.

Let's see if Brown becomes a better coach - X's and O's, fewer turnovers, better "load management" of
your star's minutes, etc.

I'm open-minded, but not optimistic.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#270 » by Mik317 » Tue May 14, 2019 8:08 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:When one is biased but negatively against someone on the team then it is a bad thing. When one is biased in favour of the team, then nothing wrong with it. Is this how it works? because I admit I am biased against Brett, can't stand him, but then many are biased here praising Embiid or Simmons, or when some criticize other team players for flopping but say nothing when Embiid does it, for example, or posting on/off numbers for Simmons when they are positive but then not doing it when they are negative like against Raptors.


because that negativity is all a lot of those posters bring to the table.

Brett pissed me off a lot last year too. But not everything is his fault and not every little issue needs to be morphed into the 30000th time of why Brett needs to be fired. Its all a self fulfilling prophecy with some of all. Embiid does a bad thing suddenly turns into "see this is why we shouldn't build around him". This might be just but sometimes after the smoke clears its helpful to take a step back and look at the context of everything. There is more nuance to these things than people realize. And I get it. In the moment, you are mad and upset that your team doesn't just **** play the right way..and I am often right there with you on the rage train in those moments. But again after the smoke clears, I don't see the point in repeating "so and so should be fired". That conversation doesn't really go anywhere honestly..whereas looking into how and why things happen beyond "this guy am suck" does IMO. I think this board, myself included, is often too reactionary and set in their ways at times.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#271 » by Wilfried » Tue May 14, 2019 8:14 pm

Just like our player, Brett is still developing as a coach too. He did a very good job and has all the right to a chance to have a team a full year under his wing.

We pushed the much more experienced Raptors to game 7 and I don't think his game plan was to allow so much offensive rebounds or to's at the end of the game.

That being said, next season there's probably no excuse for him anymore too.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#272 » by Ben » Tue May 14, 2019 8:30 pm

VDT wrote:People pay too much attention to coaches. Unless you have a legendary coach or a horrific coach it will not make much difference in the playoffs. Stevens was viewed as a prodigy last year and this year he failed miserably. The opposite for Rivers and the Clippers.

If anything Brown should be praised for having the team so close to the ecf finals against a team that was the favourite and with his best player sick/ injured/ generally playing poorly.


I've heard this many times from people whose insights I generally admire, so I do take it seriously. But it doesn't mesh with what I've seen over many years. Even if you just want to say that coaching adjustments (and practice... yeah, we talking 'bout practice) makes a difference at the margins, those margins can be the difference between advancing in the playoffs or going home.

I'm not saying that there's an available coach that'll be better for the Sixers next year than Brown. I did say that the other night after the game 7 loss, and while I don't think that the dismissive and derisive criticism I got was warranted, I take the point that just about any move the team might make would carry risks and wouldn't be an obvious home run. I would love to have a number of guys who aren't available and won't come here-- Carlisle, Riley, Kerr, Rivers-- but that's irrelevant. I love Thibs, but after the Minnesota debacle I can't be sure that he'd be a sure thing. (I would love him as an assistant, but that doesn't seem likely.) I like Dave Joerger a lot and think that he his teams have consistently outperformed what you'd expect given their talent. But changing to him wouldn't be an obvious home run. I like Jeff Van Gundy, too-- hated him when I hated his Knick team, but respected him a lot-- but I don't know that he's returning to coaching soon.

For all that: just because there might not be an obvious home-run replacement for Brown doesn't mean that one has to like his chances of winning a title here. It just is what it is. Probably the best thing he can do to improve his chances is to persuade Ben Simmons to spend 2 years working exclusively on his shooting. For Pete's sake, even power forwards and centers routinely shoot 3s these days. If he can do that then that will be the marginal difference, and it won't even have come during in-game situations.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#273 » by Stanford » Tue May 14, 2019 8:47 pm

Is the Brett presser available online somewhere?
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#274 » by XDevilBoiX » Tue May 14, 2019 8:55 pm

Stanford wrote:Is the Brett presser available online somewhere?

https://www.facebook.com/6abcActionNews/videos/1259097450937803?s=100000711911936&v=e&sfns=mo
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#275 » by Stanford » Tue May 14, 2019 8:55 pm

XDevilBoiX wrote:
Stanford wrote:Is the Brett presser available online somewhere?

https://www.facebook.com/6abcActionNews/videos/1259097450937803?s=100000711911936&v=e&sfns=mo


My new best friend, folks

I don't think I've ever seen Brett with as much confidence as he showed in this.

lol at snapping at Howard Eskin.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#276 » by PhilaOwnsBoston » Tue May 14, 2019 9:57 pm

I listened to some of the presser earlier today. Not all of it. He went on and on about passing passing passing again. He thinks it's the most important part of an offense. It's something I'll always fundamentally disagree with him on. Especially in the playoffs, I think iso ball is important. Passing will always be important, but I think sometimes preaching passing to the extremes he does causes guys to pass up clean looks when they don't have to.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#277 » by VDT » Tue May 14, 2019 10:01 pm

Ben wrote:
VDT wrote:People pay too much attention to coaches. Unless you have a legendary coach or a horrific coach it will not make much difference in the playoffs. Stevens was viewed as a prodigy last year and this year he failed miserably. The opposite for Rivers and the Clippers.

If anything Brown should be praised for having the team so close to the ecf finals against a team that was the favourite and with his best player sick/ injured/ generally playing poorly.


I've heard this many times from people whose insights I generally admire, so I do take it seriously. But it doesn't mesh with what I've seen over many years. Even if you just want to say that coaching adjustments (and practice... yeah, we talking 'bout practice) makes a difference at the margins, those margins can be the difference between advancing in the playoffs or going home.

I'm not saying that there's an available coach that'll be better for the Sixers next year than Brown. I did say that the other night after the game 7 loss, and while I don't think that the dismissive and derisive criticism I got was warranted, I take the point that just about any move the team might make would carry risks and wouldn't be an obvious home run. I would love to have a number of guys who aren't available and won't come here-- Carlisle, Riley, Kerr, Rivers-- but that's irrelevant. I love Thibs, but after the Minnesota debacle I can't be sure that he'd be a sure thing. (I would love him as an assistant, but that doesn't seem likely.) I like Dave Joerger a lot and think that he his teams have consistently outperformed what you'd expect given their talent. But changing to him wouldn't be an obvious home run. I like Jeff Van Gundy, too-- hated him when I hated his Knick team, but respected him a lot-- but I don't know that he's returning to coaching soon.

For all that: just because there might not be an obvious home-run replacement for Brown doesn't mean that one has to like his chances of winning a title here. It just is what it is. Probably the best thing he can do to improve his chances is to persuade Ben Simmons to spend 2 years working exclusively on his shooting. For Pete's sake, even power forwards and centers routinely shoot 3s these days. If he can do that then that will be the marginal difference, and it won't even have come during in-game situations.



Well Popovic is arguably the GOAT coach and he got eliminated in the first round by a green team like the Nuggets who is not some juggernaught and while he had an all star in Aldridge and a 4 time in prime/peak former all star in Derozan. I already mentioned Stevens who i believe is a very good coach but who failed miserably this year. On the other hand Tyron Lue won a title. Walton had a 39-4 record with the Warriors yet he was fired by the Lakers.

What i am trying to say is that coaching, within reason, is way down in the list of things that determine which team wins the title. The FO and the roster talent are far more important. Apart from that i think the coach's main influence is through the culture he creates and having the stars buy into what he is doing. Secondarily, also through the system he is running but that also largely depends on the stars of the team and is also influenced by the assistant coaches. His in-game decisions, that most people complain about, is probably the least important aspect, again within reason. Every coach is going to make decisions that turned out good or bad and probably every fanbase, including the Spurs, complains about that.

Regarding Brown, i think he has fared good during the tanking years, never lost the team, developed some players and had the team play with a system. I dont think one can really ask for more. Then last year the team overachieved in the regular season but probably underachieved during the playoffs. Was it Brown though that underachieved or was it Simmons/Embiid that underachieved compared to the expectations? This year i think it was the opposite, the Sixers underachieved in the regular season and imo overachieved in the playoffs. But again was it Brown? Because to me the lack of chemistry, expected for a newly formed team, the questionable fit, Simmons stagnation as a player and Embiid's injury/bad performance in the playoffs were much more important in the end results than Brown who i think was pretty good in the playoffs. I think he still doesnt have an idea how the offense should look like, but that has more to do with the roster than anything else. In the end he almost reached the ecf against a team that most people expected to beat us easily and with his best player playing quite bad relative to the regular season. Again i dont think Brown is some coaching genius but he is not that bad that he could negatively impact a team. If we can find a better replacement or he loses the team (which i think is quite possible next year due to the questionable fit of the team) then we should fire him. But right now with no coach to hire who would be a significant upgrade (or even an upgrade) it makes no sense to risk destroying the team's culture and chemistry.

I think a lot of the complaints about Brown stem from people over-rating our players, especially Embiid and Simmons who maybe excellent talents but they are not excellent players atm (particularly Simmons). In addition they dont particularly fit together and in addition his best player's game goes against the current trend. All these issues are going to be here even if Brown gets fired and i am not really sure how his successor will be able to deal with them in a significantly better way.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#278 » by Ben » Tue May 14, 2019 10:53 pm

VDT wrote:Well Popovic is arguably the GOAT coach and he got eliminated in the first round by a green team like the Nuggets who is not some juggernaught and while he had an all star in Aldridge and a 4 time in prime/peak former all star in Derozan. I already mentioned Stevens who i believe is a very good coach but who failed miserably this year. On the other hand Tyron Lue won a title. Walton had a 39-4 record with the Warriors yet he was fired by the Lakers.

What i am trying to say is that coaching, within reason, is way down in the list of things that determine which team wins the title. The FO and the roster talent are far more important. Apart from that i think the coach's main influence is through the culture he creates and having the stars buy into what he is doing. Secondarily, also through the system he is running but that also largely depends on the stars of the team and is also influenced by the assistant coaches. His in-game decisions, that most people complain about, is probably the least important aspect, again within reason. Every coach is going to make decisions that turned out good or bad and probably every fanbase, including the Spurs, complains about that.

Regarding Brown, i think he has fared good during the tanking years, never lost the team, developed some players and had the team play with a system. I dont think one can really ask for more. Then last year the team overachieved in the regular season but probably underachieved during the playoffs. Was it Brown though that underachieved or was it Simmons/Embiid that underachieved compared to the expectations? This year i think it was the opposite, the Sixers underachieved in the regular season and imo overachieved in the playoffs. But again was it Brown? Because to me the lack of chemistry, expected for a newly formed team, the questionable fit, Simmons stagnation as a player and Embiid's injury/bad performance in the playoffs were much more important in the end results than Brown who i think was pretty good in the playoffs. I think he still doesnt have an idea how the offense should look like, but that has more to do with the roster than anything else. In the end he almost reached the ecf against a team that most people expected to beat us easily and with his best player playing quite bad relative to the regular season. Again i dont think Brown is some coaching genius but he is not that bad that he could negatively impact a team. If we can find a better replacement or he loses the team (which i think is quite possible next year due to the questionable fit of the team) then we should fire him. But right now with no coach to hire who would be a significant upgrade (or even an upgrade) it makes no sense to risk destroying the team's culture and chemistry.

I think a lot of the complaints about Brown stem from people over-rating our players, especially Embiid and Simmons who maybe excellent talents but they are not excellent players atm (particularly Simmons). In addition they dont particularly fit together and in addition his best player's game goes against the current trend. All these issues are going to be here even if Brown gets fired and i am not really sure how his successor will be able to deal with them in a significantly better way.


Good response. I just want to reiterate -- and it seems as if you might agree here-- that the effect of coaching is not negligible, even if it affects performance at the margins. We used to have these debates in Chicago, when Jerry Krause apparently tried to take more credit for the dynasty Bulls than many of us thought he deserved. Most of us were pretty insistent that the players were far, far more important than the GM or even the coach, although many also thought that Phil Jackson was pretty darned important in defining the crucial margins in some of the tighter playoffs and finals. And of course Krause did some very important things, too, most notably getting Pippen. Did a lot of mediocre and crappy things, too.

In other words: The Bulls never would have been in the dynasty conversation were it not for the players. But during some of those years, with some personality conflicts and warring egos, it's possible that the team might not have won all six of the titles that they did if they hadn't had Jackson calming things down and keeping it together. (He coached the MJ-less team that came within one Hue Hollins phantom foul call on Scottie Pippen of advancing to the 1994 NBA Finals.) Was Krause's contribution negligible? I'm sure that it wasn't. But we never got to see a counterfactual in which some other GM assembled the team around Jordan. We did kind of get to see a Jackson counterfactual in 1994: the Bulls were good enough to have made the NBA Finals without MJ and with Jackson. Jackson in those days was a badass.

Back to your points: flip the Spurs narrative. Popovich's Spurs almost beat the Western Conference's #1 seed, and they did so with a 33 year old Aldridge, a flawed scorer (Derozan) whose superstar appeal I could never quite understand (since he can't shoot), and a bunch of has-beens and scrubs. I don't know how you can possibly spin that as a knock against Pops.

Brad Stevens: again, I don't see how you're spinning this one. The Celtics don't have the talent that the Sixers or Raptors or Bucks have, yet they once again competed against all of them. They overachieved last year and probably were at their appropriate level this year, based on their talent. I don't see how you call the Sixers playoff overachievers this year, either. We have a better starting five than the Raptors.

I don't for a moment make Brown the goat of this past series. He did a lot to help us get there. But it was such a close series, so eminently winnable, that it's hard not to suspect that if Brown were a little better at making late-game adjustments-- just as if Embiid hadn't been quite so out of it for part of the series, or if... well, you know the what ifs-- they might have won one of game four or seven. And hence it's hard to wonder what might be if the team had a coach who could do the things that Brown can't or doesn't. That's all.

My 2 cents. You may feel overcharged.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#279 » by rzzzzz » Tue May 14, 2019 10:58 pm

Ben wrote:I don't for a moment make Brown the goat of this past series. He did a lot to help us get there. But it was such a close series, so eminently winnable, that it's hard not to suspect that if Brown were a little better at making late-game adjustments-- just as if Embiid hadn't been quite so out of it for part of the series, or if... well, you know the what ifs-- they might have won one of game four or seven. And hence it's hard to wonder what might be if the team had a coach who could do the things that Brown can't or doesn't. That's all.

My 2 cents. You may feel overcharged.


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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#280 » by Sixerscan » Tue May 14, 2019 11:06 pm

hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
What is it with you, Sixerscan? First you call people who disagree with you "haters", then "biased". Look in a mirror.

I saw what I saw and don't need Zach Lowe to tell me what I saw.

I saw a team that didn't adjust to two defensive bigs and then got tired because we played our bench a combined six minutes in the second half. We should have had a 10-point lead given that Siakam was a no show and Lowry was playing injured.

Anyway, I don't want to get into the weeds with you because you're profoundly "biased" in my opinion - i.e., you see what you want to see and put blinders on what you don't want to see.

Enjoy your day.


I say you’re biased because anyone that is unbiased would be able to come up with a rational reason why he decided that he had to play his starters that much in that game, and that that is one of a million decisions and choices by the Sixers and Raptors players and coaches that decided that game. You’re so obviously starting with “the coach is why they lost” and reverse engineering the reason why that is.

There was a 0% chance of you not blaming the coach so I’m not sure why I have to take the time to poke holes in your bad faith arguments just because you responded with a long rant to an innocuous post of mine that wasn’t directed at you.



What's your problem, Sixerscan? It's an opinion board and you've got a problem with people who have
a different opinion than yours.

Truth be told, I get almost as much pleasure from a root canal than reading your blind defense of Brown.
No, I don't believe there are "rational" reasons for not using your bench - when you've already cut it to two.
And then talk nice about the two guys you didn't play.

I don't believe there are "rational" reasons for not developing a bench or for failing to get a shot off three
times toward the end of the game. But that's not new. We ranked 27th in the league in turnovers during
the regular season.

You're right. There are thousands of decisions (perhaps millions, but I don't know how to count them)
that players and coaches make during a game. The ones I pointed out - not playing your bench, letting
Embiid shoot 30% of your non-Redick 3's, and not managing your timeouts so that you can call one when
you need one - involve game strategy and game management, thus are on the coach.

Let's see if Brown becomes a better coach - X's and O's, fewer turnovers, better "load management" of
your star's minutes, etc.

I'm open-minded, but not optimistic.


Im not blindly defending the guy I’m saying your arguments are bad and it’s because you are biased. Have whatever opinion you want, but there’s nothing saying I have to respond to them just because you quoted some random post I made that said nothing about this game you want to talk about.

There’s plenty of room for disagreement with the decisions that coaches make. There’s plenty of different coaching philosophies. But if you can’t even acknowledge that they have rational reasons for making the decisions they do based on hundreds of hours of work by them and their staffs I’m not really sure what there is to discuss.

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