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Brett Brown : Not Today!

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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#281 » by Ben » Tue May 14, 2019 11:41 pm

rzzzzz wrote:
Ben wrote:I don't for a moment make Brown the goat of this past series. He did a lot to help us get there. But it was such a close series, so eminently winnable, that it's hard not to suspect that if Brown were a little better at making late-game adjustments-- just as if Embiid hadn't been quite so out of it for part of the series, or if... well, you know the what ifs-- they might have won one of game four or seven. And hence it's hard to wonder what might be if the team had a coach who could do the things that Brown can't or doesn't. That's all.

My 2 cents. You may feel overcharged.


worth every penny.


:rofl:
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#282 » by BullyKing » Wed May 15, 2019 12:04 am

Mik317 wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:When one is biased but negatively against someone on the team then it is a bad thing. When one is biased in favour of the team, then nothing wrong with it. Is this how it works? because I admit I am biased against Brett, can't stand him, but then many are biased here praising Embiid or Simmons, or when some criticize other team players for flopping but say nothing when Embiid does it, for example, or posting on/off numbers for Simmons when they are positive but then not doing it when they are negative like against Raptors.


because that negativity is all a lot of those posters bring to the table.

Brett pissed me off a lot last year too. But not everything is his fault and not every little issue needs to be morphed into the 30000th time of why Brett needs to be fired. Its all a self fulfilling prophecy with some of all. Embiid does a bad thing suddenly turns into "see this is why we shouldn't build around him". This might be just but sometimes after the smoke clears its helpful to take a step back and look at the context of everything. There is more nuance to these things than people realize. And I get it. In the moment, you are mad and upset that your team doesn't just **** play the right way..and I am often right there with you on the rage train in those moments. But again after the smoke clears, I don't see the point in repeating "so and so should be fired". That conversation doesn't really go anywhere honestly..whereas looking into how and why things happen beyond "this guy am suck" does IMO. I think this board, myself included, is often too reactionary and set in their ways at times.


You stated pretty well something I've been thinking about a lot. This is a discussion board. We have too many posters who don't view this as a discussion board but merely as a place to vent. These are predominantly the posters that have 90% of their posts in the game threads and they only use the board as a way to express their rage about things with posts like "brown is a moron" or "[player that just committed a turnover] is a mental midget." It's not about making a reasoned argument as to why something is bad or why Brown should be fired or this player traded - its just an outlet for them to scream about things. It adds nothing and really detracts from the board, especially given that they tend to be repeated ad nauseam.

Many posters have made many excellent "negative" posts explaining why they do not like Brown's substitutions, or how Ben's lack of a jump shot restricts the offense or whatever. I've never seen any take issue with those posts even if they disagree in whole or in part. But if the content of your posts is largely "this guy is stupid" or "I hate our coach so much that I'm rooting for our team to lose in the playoffs," you can't really expect other posters to want to engage in a conversation with you or really read your posts at all.

Edit: For example, this is a great demonstration of a fantastic, well-reasoned discussion between someone expressing a "negative" opinion and someone expressing a "positive" opinion. They don't start where the initial post is "OMG Brown sux!"

Ben wrote:
VDT wrote:Well Popovic is arguably the GOAT coach and he got eliminated in the first round by a green team like the Nuggets who is not some juggernaught and while he had an all star in Aldridge and a 4 time in prime/peak former all star in Derozan. I already mentioned Stevens who i believe is a very good coach but who failed miserably this year. On the other hand Tyron Lue won a title. Walton had a 39-4 record with the Warriors yet he was fired by the Lakers.

What i am trying to say is that coaching, within reason, is way down in the list of things that determine which team wins the title. The FO and the roster talent are far more important. Apart from that i think the coach's main influence is through the culture he creates and having the stars buy into what he is doing. Secondarily, also through the system he is running but that also largely depends on the stars of the team and is also influenced by the assistant coaches. His in-game decisions, that most people complain about, is probably the least important aspect, again within reason. Every coach is going to make decisions that turned out good or bad and probably every fanbase, including the Spurs, complains about that.

Regarding Brown, i think he has fared good during the tanking years, never lost the team, developed some players and had the team play with a system. I dont think one can really ask for more. Then last year the team overachieved in the regular season but probably underachieved during the playoffs. Was it Brown though that underachieved or was it Simmons/Embiid that underachieved compared to the expectations? This year i think it was the opposite, the Sixers underachieved in the regular season and imo overachieved in the playoffs. But again was it Brown? Because to me the lack of chemistry, expected for a newly formed team, the questionable fit, Simmons stagnation as a player and Embiid's injury/bad performance in the playoffs were much more important in the end results than Brown who i think was pretty good in the playoffs. I think he still doesnt have an idea how the offense should look like, but that has more to do with the roster than anything else. In the end he almost reached the ecf against a team that most people expected to beat us easily and with his best player playing quite bad relative to the regular season. Again i dont think Brown is some coaching genius but he is not that bad that he could negatively impact a team. If we can find a better replacement or he loses the team (which i think is quite possible next year due to the questionable fit of the team) then we should fire him. But right now with no coach to hire who would be a significant upgrade (or even an upgrade) it makes no sense to risk destroying the team's culture and chemistry.

I think a lot of the complaints about Brown stem from people over-rating our players, especially Embiid and Simmons who maybe excellent talents but they are not excellent players atm (particularly Simmons). In addition they dont particularly fit together and in addition his best player's game goes against the current trend. All these issues are going to be here even if Brown gets fired and i am not really sure how his successor will be able to deal with them in a significantly better way.


Good response. I just want to reiterate -- and it seems as if you might agree here-- that the effect of coaching is not negligible, even if it affects performance at the margins. We used to have these debates in Chicago, when Jerry Krause apparently tried to take more credit for the dynasty Bulls than many of us thought he deserved. Most of us were pretty insistent that the players were far, far more important than the GM or even the coach, although many also thought that Phil Jackson was pretty darned important in defining the crucial margins in some of the tighter playoffs and finals. And of course Krause did some very important things, too, most notably getting Pippen. Did a lot of mediocre and crappy things, too.

In other words: The Bulls never would have been in the dynasty conversation were it not for the players. But during some of those years, with some personality conflicts and warring egos, it's possible that the team might not have won all six of the titles that they did if they hadn't had Jackson calming things down and keeping it together. (He coached the MJ-less team that came within one Hue Hollins phantom foul call on Scottie Pippen of advancing to the 1994 NBA Finals.) Was Krause's contribution negligible? I'm sure that it wasn't. But we never got to see a counterfactual in which some other GM assembled the team around Jordan. We did kind of get to see a Jackson counterfactual in 1994: the Bulls were good enough to have made the NBA Finals without MJ and with Jackson. Jackson in those days was a badass.

Back to your points: flip the Spurs narrative. Popovich's Spurs almost beat the Western Conference's #1 seed, and they did so with a 33 year old Aldridge, a flawed scorer (Derozan) whose superstar appeal I could never quite understand (since he can't shoot), and a bunch of has-beens and scrubs. I don't know how you can possibly spin that as a knock against Pops.

Brad Stevens: again, I don't see how you're spinning this one. The Celtics don't have the talent that the Sixers or Raptors or Bucks have, yet they once again competed against all of them. They overachieved last year and probably were at their appropriate level this year, based on their talent. I don't see how you call the Sixers playoff overachievers this year, either. We have a better starting five than the Raptors.

I don't for a moment make Brown the goat of this past series. He did a lot to help us get there. But it was such a close series, so eminently winnable, that it's hard not to suspect that if Brown were a little better at making late-game adjustments-- just as if Embiid hadn't been quite so out of it for part of the series, or if... well, you know the what ifs-- they might have won one of game four or seven. And hence it's hard to wonder what might be if the team had a coach who could do the things that Brown can't or doesn't. That's all.

My 2 cents. You may feel overcharged.
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the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#283 » by VDT » Wed May 15, 2019 12:07 am

Ben wrote:
VDT wrote:Well Popovic is arguably the GOAT coach and he got eliminated in the first round by a green team like the Nuggets who is not some juggernaught and while he had an all star in Aldridge and a 4 time in prime/peak former all star in Derozan. I already mentioned Stevens who i believe is a very good coach but who failed miserably this year. On the other hand Tyron Lue won a title. Walton had a 39-4 record with the Warriors yet he was fired by the Lakers.

What i am trying to say is that coaching, within reason, is way down in the list of things that determine which team wins the title. The FO and the roster talent are far more important. Apart from that i think the coach's main influence is through the culture he creates and having the stars buy into what he is doing. Secondarily, also through the system he is running but that also largely depends on the stars of the team and is also influenced by the assistant coaches. His in-game decisions, that most people complain about, is probably the least important aspect, again within reason. Every coach is going to make decisions that turned out good or bad and probably every fanbase, including the Spurs, complains about that.

Regarding Brown, i think he has fared good during the tanking years, never lost the team, developed some players and had the team play with a system. I dont think one can really ask for more. Then last year the team overachieved in the regular season but probably underachieved during the playoffs. Was it Brown though that underachieved or was it Simmons/Embiid that underachieved compared to the expectations? This year i think it was the opposite, the Sixers underachieved in the regular season and imo overachieved in the playoffs. But again was it Brown? Because to me the lack of chemistry, expected for a newly formed team, the questionable fit, Simmons stagnation as a player and Embiid's injury/bad performance in the playoffs were much more important in the end results than Brown who i think was pretty good in the playoffs. I think he still doesnt have an idea how the offense should look like, but that has more to do with the roster than anything else. In the end he almost reached the ecf against a team that most people expected to beat us easily and with his best player playing quite bad relative to the regular season. Again i dont think Brown is some coaching genius but he is not that bad that he could negatively impact a team. If we can find a better replacement or he loses the team (which i think is quite possible next year due to the questionable fit of the team) then we should fire him. But right now with no coach to hire who would be a significant upgrade (or even an upgrade) it makes no sense to risk destroying the team's culture and chemistry.

I think a lot of the complaints about Brown stem from people over-rating our players, especially Embiid and Simmons who maybe excellent talents but they are not excellent players atm (particularly Simmons). In addition they dont particularly fit together and in addition his best player's game goes against the current trend. All these issues are going to be here even if Brown gets fired and i am not really sure how his successor will be able to deal with them in a significantly better way.


Good response. I just want to reiterate -- and it seems as if you might agree here-- that the effect of coaching is not negligible, even if it affects performance at the margins. We used to have these debates in Chicago, when Jerry Krause apparently tried to take more credit for the dynasty Bulls than many of us thought he deserved. Most of us were pretty insistent that the players were far, far more important than the GM or even the coach, although many also thought that Phil Jackson was pretty darned important in defining the crucial margins in some of the tighter playoffs and finals. And of course Krause did some very important things, too, most notably getting Pippen. Did a lot of mediocre and crappy things, too.

In other words: The Bulls never would have been in the dynasty conversation were it not for the players. But during some of those years, with some personality conflicts and warring egos, it's possible that the team might not have won all six of the titles that they did if they hadn't had Jackson calming things down and keeping it together. (He coached the MJ-less team that came within one Hue Hollins phantom foul call on Scottie Pippen of advancing to the 1994 NBA Finals.) Was Krause's contribution negligible? I'm sure that it wasn't. But we never got to see a counterfactual in which some other GM assembled the team around Jordan. We did kind of get to see a Jackson counterfactual in 1994: the Bulls were good enough to have made the NBA Finals without MJ and with Jackson. Jackson in those days was a badass.

Back to your points: flip the Spurs narrative. Popovich's Spurs almost beat the Western Conference's #1 seed, and they did so with a 33 year old Aldridge, a flawed scorer (Derozan) whose superstar appeal I could never quite understand (since he can't shoot), and a bunch of has-beens and scrubs. I don't know how you can possibly spin that as a knock against Pops.

Brad Stevens: again, I don't see how you're spinning this one. The Celtics don't have the talent that the Sixers or Raptors or Bucks have, yet they once again competed against all of them. They overachieved last year and probably were at their appropriate level this year, based on their talent. I don't see how you call the Sixers playoff overachievers this year, either. We have a better starting five than the Raptors.

I don't for a moment make Brown the goat of this past series. He did a lot to help us get there. But it was such a close series, so eminently winnable, that it's hard not to suspect that if Brown were a little better at making late-game adjustments-- just as if Embiid hadn't been quite so out of it for part of the series, or if... well, you know the what ifs-- they might have won one of game four or seven. And hence it's hard to wonder what might be if the team had a coach who could do the things that Brown can't or doesn't. That's all.

My 2 cents. You may feel overcharged.



Regarding the points you made

-Bulls: They had arguably the goat. When you have a top 10 player ever for all his career it takes a special amount of ineptitude to fail. Jackson was important for the run but he is more someone that handles egos than anything else. Responsible for the triangle offense was Tex Winters and not Jackson which again shows that even for the coaching related stuff the coach is not the only or even the main factor. Coincidentally his relation with the players is perhaps Brown's best attribute. In 1994-1995 the Bulls still had Pipen a top 30ish player at his peak and they were playing in a completely different league. They lost in the playoffs to the Knicks who also had one star in Ewing who in their turn also lost in the finals to the Rockets who also had one star in Hakeem.

-Spurs: The Nuggets were the 2 seed, but they were also perhaps the most inexperienced team in the playoffs and they also had one all star. Now i am not saying that the Spurs should have won but it should tell you something if arguably the goat coach cannot will his team to the second round against such an opponent. In the end how to you quantify a top coach's impact. Is it that of a star, a superstar or a roleplayer? Because if the difference is between a good roleplayer and an ok or average roleplayer then that is hardly a topic worth talking about.

-Celtics: The Celtics (fans,players and organization) and most people in the nba expected them to be contenders based on the hype at the start of the 2017-2018 season and their performance last year in the playoffs. On the contrary they have been perhaps the biggest disappointment of this year along with the Lakers. Why was a good coach (some were even saying the top coach) like Stevens not able to make the Celtics play better? The Celtics were literally worse than last year when Hayward didnt play, Kyrie lost part of the regualr season and all the playoffs and Brown and Tatum were both more inexperienced.Again how you would quantify a coach's impact?

Brown; Apart from having a team that not only is not a good fir but they also havent played many games together he had his best player significantly underperform in the playoffs.Which team would have been able to overcome that? Maybe the Warriors? Because the Bucks and Raptors wouldnt have advanced if Giannis and Kawhi were that bad. Conversely if Embiid had played at his regular season level the Sixers would have won the series. Again no one is arguing that Brown is the best coach ever, nor that the team wouldnt improve with a better coach. But there is no such a coach available at the moment and even if there was you are not really sure he is going to perform better (see Stevens) and you risk damaging the locker room chemistry. In the end i think it is easier for people to complain about the coaches and turn a blind eye to our star's deficiencies because it is easier to change coaches and because if the players are the problem (which i am not saying to be clear) that has much more grave consequences for the team's future. Psycologically it is much easier to blame the part of the team that is easier to change. In the end i wouldn't fire Brown unless he loses the locker room or unless the team appears to be stagnant and not improve next year.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#284 » by hookshot199 » Wed May 15, 2019 12:10 am

Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
I say you’re biased because anyone that is unbiased would be able to come up with a rational reason why he decided that he had to play his starters that much in that game, and that that is one of a million decisions and choices by the Sixers and Raptors players and coaches that decided that game. You’re so obviously starting with “the coach is why they lost” and reverse engineering the reason why that is.

There was a 0% chance of you not blaming the coach so I’m not sure why I have to take the time to poke holes in your bad faith arguments just because you responded with a long rant to an innocuous post of mine that wasn’t directed at you.



What's your problem, Sixerscan? It's an opinion board and you've got a problem with people who have
a different opinion than yours.

Truth be told, I get almost as much pleasure from a root canal than reading your blind defense of Brown.
No, I don't believe there are "rational" reasons for not using your bench - when you've already cut it to two.
And then talk nice about the two guys you didn't play.

I don't believe there are "rational" reasons for not developing a bench or for failing to get a shot off three
times toward the end of the game. But that's not new. We ranked 27th in the league in turnovers during
the regular season.

You're right. There are thousands of decisions (perhaps millions, but I don't know how to count them)
that players and coaches make during a game. The ones I pointed out - not playing your bench, letting
Embiid shoot 30% of your non-Redick 3's, and not managing your timeouts so that you can call one when
you need one - involve game strategy and game management, thus are on the coach.

Let's see if Brown becomes a better coach - X's and O's, fewer turnovers, better "load management" of
your star's minutes, etc.

I'm open-minded, but not optimistic.


Im not blindly defending the guy I’m saying your arguments are bad and it’s because you are biased. Have whatever opinion you want, but there’s nothing saying I have to respond to them just because you quoted some random post I made that said nothing about this game you want to talk about.

There’s plenty of room for disagreement with the decisions that coaches make. There’s plenty of different coaching philosophies. But if you can’t even acknowledge that they have rational reasons for making the decisions they do based on hundreds of hours of work by them and their staffs I’m not really sure what there is to discuss.


Sixerscan, what is your point? I'm biased, you're not? You make rational points, I don't? Grow up.
You're acting like kid. Yes, there are different coaching philosophies. Yes, we have disagreements
about coaching decisions before and during games. You conflated a disagreement with Brown's
decisions, philosophy and competence as a coach with hating him. You're the moderator. Be careful
what you write. Your attempt at humor, if that's what it was, wasn't funny in my opinion.

Time to move on, okay?
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#285 » by Sixerscan » Wed May 15, 2019 1:24 am

hookshot199 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:

What's your problem, Sixerscan? It's an opinion board and you've got a problem with people who have
a different opinion than yours.

Truth be told, I get almost as much pleasure from a root canal than reading your blind defense of Brown.
No, I don't believe there are "rational" reasons for not using your bench - when you've already cut it to two.
And then talk nice about the two guys you didn't play.

I don't believe there are "rational" reasons for not developing a bench or for failing to get a shot off three
times toward the end of the game. But that's not new. We ranked 27th in the league in turnovers during
the regular season.

You're right. There are thousands of decisions (perhaps millions, but I don't know how to count them)
that players and coaches make during a game. The ones I pointed out - not playing your bench, letting
Embiid shoot 30% of your non-Redick 3's, and not managing your timeouts so that you can call one when
you need one - involve game strategy and game management, thus are on the coach.

Let's see if Brown becomes a better coach - X's and O's, fewer turnovers, better "load management" of
your star's minutes, etc.

I'm open-minded, but not optimistic.


Im not blindly defending the guy I’m saying your arguments are bad and it’s because you are biased. Have whatever opinion you want, but there’s nothing saying I have to respond to them just because you quoted some random post I made that said nothing about this game you want to talk about.

There’s plenty of room for disagreement with the decisions that coaches make. There’s plenty of different coaching philosophies. But if you can’t even acknowledge that they have rational reasons for making the decisions they do based on hundreds of hours of work by them and their staffs I’m not really sure what there is to discuss.


Sixerscan, what is your point? I'm biased, you're not? You make rational points, I don't? Grow up.
You're acting like kid. Yes, there are different coaching philosophies. Yes, we have disagreements
about coaching decisions before and during games. You conflated a disagreement with Brown's
decisions, philosophy and competence as a coach with hating him. You're the moderator. Be careful
what you write. Your attempt at humor, if that's what it was, wasn't funny in my opinion.

Time to move on, okay?


I've been explaining to you literally all damn day that I don't want to talk about this with you and want to move on.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#286 » by Ben » Wed May 15, 2019 2:00 am

VDT wrote:Again no one is arguing that Brown is the best coach ever, nor that the team wouldnt improve with a better coach. But there is no such a coach available at the moment and even if there was you are not really sure he is going to perform better (see Stevens) and you risk damaging the locker room chemistry. In the end i think it is easier for people to complain about the coaches and turn a blind eye to our star's deficiencies because it is easier to change coaches and because if the players are the problem (which i am not saying to be clear) that has much more grave consequences for the team's future. Psycologically it is much easier to blame the part of the team that is easier to change. In the end i wouldn't fire Brown unless he loses the locker room or unless the team appears to be stagnant and not improve next year.


This is the point that I was conceding in my earlier post here.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#287 » by SixthStreet » Wed May 15, 2019 2:22 am

This is just baseless speculation by me, but I can see scenarios whereby the Celtics and Stevens decide to mutually part ways after next season. There are cracks in the god-like reputations Stevens had with their fans, Kyrie might leave, Morris almost assured is, Tatum and Brown very well could be plateauing, Horford isn't getting any younger, etc.

If ownership wanted to make a change after next season depending on how we do, that could be a coup. I'd still rather not and see Brett as our coach for the next decade+, but I'm trying to see the silver lining because it's pretty clear not everyone is a fan of Brett in the organization.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#288 » by USWAY » Wed May 15, 2019 2:38 am

SixthStreet wrote:This is just baseless speculation by me, but I can see scenarios whereby the Celtics and Stevens decide to mutually part ways after next season. There are cracks in the god-like reputations Stevens had with their fans, Kyrie might leave, Morris almost assured is, Tatum and Brown very well could be plateauing, Horford isn't getting any younger, etc.

If ownership wanted to make a change after next season depending on how we do, that could be a coup. I'd still rather not and see Brett as our coach for the next decade+, but I'm trying to see the silver lining because it's pretty clear not everyone is a fan of Brett in the organization.

I just don't see a world where Brad Stevens would be able to mesh well with personalities such as Joel Embiid, Jimmy Butler, and Ben Simmons
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#289 » by Zumramania » Wed May 15, 2019 7:54 am

Probably the best NBA podcaster in Croatia and the Balkans (Gee) made one interesting observation: Sixers always have to beat themselves first before even attempting at beating the opponent.

He further explained that the roster is very awkwardly constructed with players whose strenghts and preferred playing styles don't mesh well and it takes a great effort from the coach to make the best out of it, despite players being what they are individually. He also commented on Embiid being injured / out of shape as an important factor, an he praised Brown for changing the role of Simmons completely from primary ballhandler to defensive stopper / offensive cutter and rebounder in parts of the series against Toronto. This is where the defending players cannot ignore him and where he could develop his game further.

To put it shortly, this guy thinks roster construction and possible additions/changes in that department are a bigger issue than Brown and I agree with him.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#290 » by Tomjas » Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 am

Zumramania wrote:Probably the best NBA podcaster in Croatia and the Balkans (Gee) made one interesting observation: Sixers always have to beat themselves first before even attempting at beating the opponent.

He further explained that the roster is very awkwardly constructed with players whose strenghts and preferred playing styles don't mesh well and it takes a great effort from the coach to make the best out of it, despite players being what they are individually. He also commented on Embiid being injured / out of shape as an important factor, an he praised Brown for changing the role of Simmons completely from primary ballhandler to defensive stopper / offensive cutter and rebounder in parts of the series against Toronto. This is where the defending players cannot ignore him and where he could develop his game further.

To put it shortly, this guy thinks roster construction and possible additions/changes in that department are a bigger issue than Brown and I agree with him.


Totally agree

Only reason why Sixers have any success is due to ability not cohesion on offensive end (Joel, Jimmy & Ben all want to get to the same spot) and because they’re monsters in defence

If they’re the core, then someone needs to identify others who complement them better
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#291 » by mksp » Wed May 15, 2019 1:07 pm

Elton Brand and Josh Harris are far bigger impediments to the Finals than Brett Brown.

No single move Brett made was more inexcusable than not having a functional back up for Embiid.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#292 » by rzzzzz » Wed May 15, 2019 1:37 pm

For starters, Brett could instill a little more ambition by pushing Ben to seek someone more qualified than his brother to take charge of his development this offseason. About time the kid is more challenged than coddled.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#293 » by Sixersftw » Wed May 15, 2019 1:56 pm

mksp wrote:Elton Brand and Josh Harris are far bigger impediments to the Finals than Brett Brown.

No single move Brett made was more inexcusable than not having a functional back up for Embiid.

I don't entirely get the Josh Harris part. Is it his inability to clean house from the Colangelo era? If so, I agree that is an impediment but Harris has done and is reportedly willing to continue doing the one thing that is the most important in an ownership group. Spend money. He's also, mostly, gotten out of the way of the basketball operations people with one giant collar sized exception.

EB fundamentally mismanaged the roster. I think we'd be much better served retaining the draft picks and Shamet. Hell, Mike Scott felt more important than Harris in a lot of ways. a Smaller move for a reliable defensive 5/4 would have been more effective but it is what it is. If we resign Tobi, he should remain tradeable and, hopefully, is more integrated into the roster after a training camp.
They say an analytics man doesn't have a heart, but I ran the numbers and nothing can be further from the truth - Sam Hinkie probably
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#294 » by BullyKing » Wed May 15, 2019 2:01 pm

Sixersftw wrote:
mksp wrote:Elton Brand and Josh Harris are far bigger impediments to the Finals than Brett Brown.

No single move Brett made was more inexcusable than not having a functional back up for Embiid.

I don't entirely get the Josh Harris part. Is it his inability to clean house from the Colangelo era? If so, I agree that is an impediment but Harris has done and is reportedly willing to continue doing the one thing that is the most important in an ownership group. Spend money. He's also, mostly, gotten out of the way of the basketball operations people with one giant collar sized exception.

EB fundamentally mismanaged the roster. I think we'd be much better served retaining the draft picks and Shamet. Hell, Mike Scott felt more important than Harris in a lot of ways. a Smaller move for a reliable defensive 5/4 would have been more effective but it is what it is. If we resign Tobi, he should remain tradeable and, hopefully, is more integrated into the roster after a training camp.


While I more or less agree with both of your paragraphs in isolation, I find it difficult to separate the first paragraph from the second. I agree that Brand was too rash and pushed too much of an all-in mentality when there really wasn't a great reason to do so. But given Harris' public statements about his expectations, perhaps he felt like he had no choice (similar to the mistakes the Flyers are about to make because their new GM must appease ownership's win now mentality). Alternatively, if going for broke this season was solely Brand's idea whereas Harris wanted to be more measured then why was he hired? I guess what I'm saying is either he directly signed off on these big moves or he left a novice GM to his own devices to do whatever he wanted. Either way, I'm less than thrilled.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#295 » by phiphan » Wed May 15, 2019 3:27 pm

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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#296 » by mksp » Wed May 15, 2019 5:34 pm

Sixersftw wrote:
mksp wrote:Elton Brand and Josh Harris are far bigger impediments to the Finals than Brett Brown.

No single move Brett made was more inexcusable than not having a functional back up for Embiid.

I don't entirely get the Josh Harris part. Is it his inability to clean house from the Colangelo era? If so, I agree that is an impediment but Harris has done and is reportedly willing to continue doing the one thing that is the most important in an ownership group. Spend money. He's also, mostly, gotten out of the way of the basketball operations people with one giant collar sized exception.

EB fundamentally mismanaged the roster. I think we'd be much better served retaining the draft picks and Shamet. Hell, Mike Scott felt more important than Harris in a lot of ways. a Smaller move for a reliable defensive 5/4 would have been more effective but it is what it is. If we resign Tobi, he should remain tradeable and, hopefully, is more integrated into the roster after a training camp.


I mean, isn't the Hinkie / Colangelo debacle on Josh Harris?

He made two very good decisions in hiring Hinkie and Brett. If he just stepped back from that moment, Sixers would be in a far better place today.

Instead he got bullied by the league, hired one of the worst GMs in the league, who subsequently set this franchise back at least a couple years with poor asset management (Fultz trade, Furkan, TLC, Platzczzckyskxxx, etc.)

His next hire has made a series of questionable moves in a single year.

Since Hinkie left, the best GM we've had has been Brett (Zhaire trade was great), and Elton screwed that trade up with the Harris move.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#297 » by youngcrev » Wed May 15, 2019 5:42 pm

phiphan wrote:So Brett confirms he was on the hot seat (contrary to Harris's statement recently)

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He did? That's not how I took that answer at all

Here's what was written about that specific interaction:

“I was completely aware of how he saw my role in the future as the playoffs unfolded,” Brown said.

When the reporter asked Brown whether that meant Harris had told him he’d be staying on, his response was sharp.

“What language do I have to say it in? Yes.”
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#298 » by XtremeDunkz » Wed May 15, 2019 5:53 pm

Every time I hear Eskin ask questions I cringe.
10/27/16
Nemesis21 wrote:It is absolutely hilarious hearing people still say Embiid has superstar potential.The guy is one injury away from being Greg Oden.:lol: Except Oden manged to play over 100 games in the NBA, I don't think Embiid will play more.
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#299 » by phiphan » Wed May 15, 2019 6:41 pm

youngcrev wrote:
phiphan wrote:So Brett confirms he was on the hot seat (contrary to Harris's statement recently)

Read on Twitter


He did? That's not how I took that answer at all

Here's what was written about that specific interaction:

“I was completely aware of how he saw my role in the future as the playoffs unfolded,” Brown said.

When the reporter asked Brown whether that meant Harris had told him he’d be staying on, his response was sharp.

“What language do I have to say it in? Yes.”


Ah, oops. My bad. edited original post
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Re: Brett Brown : Not Today! 

Post#300 » by GrindCityHustle » Thu May 16, 2019 4:33 am

Lets remember Byron Scott took a Nets team to two finals and isn't even as good as a coach as Brown when it comes to players fighting for you. You need that when it comes time for the dance.
Pop would be an afterthought if he didn't have players who wanted to win and accept coaching. Brown has that despite his other flaws.


Scott is probably the most disliked coach when it matters in big games where as Brown is liked through good and bad because it's more about the experience than the ego. Embiid showed emotion because these guys wanted to win for Brown at the end of the day and felt they let him down. Butler even knew they got a bad stretch in game 7 and he even seemed to realize these kinds of losses are part of the process and he is the most logical guy on the team. This is a guy who played for Thibs who is considered SUPERIOR to Brown in NBA circles. Butler seems to KNOW this team is young in the right ways compared to what he has seen the last few years with truly disfunctional franchises.

When the Sixers make the leap their team and fanbase will be happy they stuck with Brown. If the team isn't where it needs to be at the All Star Break only then would I seriously consider it. At that point the players and Brown himself might see it's best for the team and you won't have a cloud of bad karma over the team.

As a fan of the Grizz I can tell you Joerger gave up on our team and Brown doesn't seem like the guy who truly does that. That is worth alot to the fans who endured alot of bad seasons to get the point y'all are now.

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