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XtremeDunkz wrote:One good thing Embiid has going for him, Horford and Gasol aint getting any younger.

I feel like that's how it goes for young upcoming bigs in the league. The crafty vets with man strength get the best of them early, and once they become the crafty vet, the league is in trouble.

downtownpie wrote:

youngcrev wrote:Gasol wasn't allowing him to get good position in the paint and they doubled him immediately every time he did manage to get a post touch

Shhhhh. People dont want to hear this. Gasol had a huge series and they dont win the series without him.

We knew that going in. Illness clearly had somewhat of an impact in the 2 games, but the guys that can bang with him without fouling have given him trouble. Gasol might be the toughesf matchup for him in the league.

youngcrev wrote:. Gasol might be the toughesf matchup for him in the league.

Russell probably the greatest banger in the paint of all time, which is why he has the most rings. But you still got to play Wilt down low,with his back to the basket. Hopefully our big dude wil be healthy next year, and Jimmy will encourage him to get back to basics.

Toronto's trade for Gasol won the series in my opinion:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/marc-gasol-is-joel-embiids-kryptonite/

Bum Adebayo wrote:Brett Brown and Ben Simmons, this is the answer.
Brett hates post play, and with Simmons refusing to shoot, he has the perfect excuse to put Embiid outside.

embiid was 2nd in the regular season at post-ups per game (behind aldridge) and 3rd in the playoffs (behind aldridge and jokic).
it's not like he always camps out at the 3pt line.

rzzzzz wrote:

youngcrev wrote:. Gasol might be the toughesf matchup for him in the league.

Russell probably the greatest banger in the paint of all time, which is why he has the most rings. But you still got to play Wilt down low,with his back to the basket. Hopefully our big dude wil be healthy next year, and Jimmy will encourage him to get back to basics.

I kinda agree, but the same time, those days of big men being parked down on the low block are done. He can't let guys completely discourage him from being on the block, but he also needs to improve as a shooter and in the pick and roll game (particularly if Jimmy is sticking around).

Bum Adebayo wrote:Embiid on: +90 off: -109
Simmons on: -16 off: -3
I keep hearing how great Simmons is and how uhmazing analytics are, so I ran the numbers and this is what I found. What am I missing here?

Weren't you hearing that from YOU like a month ago in over the top fashion?

Sure Embiid disappointed in these playoffs and you can't expect to go far in the playoffs when your best player is playing that bad offensively. Now part of it is his health but part of it is his skillset also. Embiid needs to improve his touch around the rim with both hands. It will be much easier to attack players like Gasol who are earthbound if he can get the defender a bit off balance and rise quickly for a hook shoot. It will open up his game and allow him to use his footwork and his nimbleness for his size. In the end even Shaq scored a lot if not most of his points with this hook shots. Facing up and driving is hard to do fir a center particularly when the paint is crowded and leads to turnovers. Backing your man down is tiring and can be difficult if the defender is as big, it also gives time to the defense to double him.

But the writing is on the wall imo. Embiid in terms of mentality and skillset is not really a pnr big nor is he a spacer (although i think he is bound to improve there). He plays more like a traditional center from the 90s. He needs to improve his game to be able to carry the team but the FO also needs to build the team with these in mind.

youngcrev wrote:

Bum Adebayo wrote:Embiid on: +90 off: -109
Simmons on: -16 off: -3
I keep hearing how great Simmons is and how uhmazing analytics are, so I ran the numbers and this is what I found. What am I missing here?

Weren't you hearing that from YOU like a month ago in over the top fashion?

Yes, regular season Simmons. Playoffs Simmons is a thing, and not a good one mind you.

I dont consider gasol or all horford Embiid stoppers or his kryptonite. These our vet big men who have been in the league for years and have about 10 years on embiid who despite the talent is still inexperienced.

We saw with Al horford he knew how to use his strength and length to keep joel out of position with strength and then contest his shot with great timing and length. But his weakness is his height. Once Embiid gains more confidence and experience. Knowing what shots to take over a guy who is only 6'9 banger will come.

Marc Gasol does a hell of a job with Embiid because he knows how to bait Embiid into bad shots and hes a hell of a post defender. Mind you Gasol has probably been playing big boy ball since 10y.o. (international). He knows how to defend guys down there. Though Gasol is slow as dirt and Embiid is a better athlete than what he has shown and wasnt able to use his quickness on Gasol because of his health and spacing down low.

This is all part of the process for Embiid. Him being beaten up by formidable veteran defenders is good for him because it shows he has a ways to go and cant just skate by on size and talent. Now he knows he has to get in better shape and perfect his craft if he really wants to be unstoppable.

Besides his over-rall fitness level I feel like Embiids biggest weakness is his decision making. Smart defenders bait him into bad shots and passes fairly easily. He does miss guys and he often holds on to the ball too long before passing or shooting. If he was more decisive and made better reads he'd eat Gasol and Horford alive. And less face it he was sick in addition to being out of shape the last four games. Game three he looked as physically good as he had all playoffs and he destroyed Gasol. Then he got the flu or whatever the hell that was that just doesnt go away in a week.

brannigan73 wrote:Besides his over-rall fitness level I feel like Embiids biggest weakness is his decision making. Smart defenders bait him into bad shots and passes fairly easily. He does miss guys and he often holds on to the ball too long before passing or shooting. If he was more decisive and made better reads he'd eat Gasol and Horford alive. And less face it he was sick in addition to being out of shape the last four games. Game three he looked as physically good as he had all playoffs and he destroyed Gasol. Then he got the flu or whatever the hell that was that just doesnt go away in a week.

Agree. Embiid just too slow to make decisions

You need Shaq at his most dominant. It when he makes on dribble and attacks. Embiid needs to make his move quick. If it’s not there. Pass it.

Embiid needs to read defense. We all see what he sees on tvs we watch except embiid doesn’t read the defense. Because embiid is physically bigger than most of the guys. He’s giving the other teams time to react by being slow in his decision making. That’s really what teams who defend embiid count on.

It’s over for the league once his decision making process improves. The cheat defender won’t have time to react if embiid is more decisive.

He’s got off season. Hopefully the knee isn’t a long term issue.

I’d like to see him plus 30-32 minutes next season. Pace himself. We don’t care if he misses back to backs. The goal is to be healthy for the playoffs.

We saw huge red flags way before the all star break with embiid. But the team kept letting him play. Or embiid kept telling the team he’s ok and wants to play.

60-65 games with embiid is what we should target.

Not embiid playing 54 of the first 58 games. And not 10 of the last 24 games. Space out the rest

brannigan73 wrote:Besides his over-rall fitness level I feel like Embiids biggest weakness is his decision making. Smart defenders bait him into bad shots and passes fairly easily. He does miss guys and he often holds on to the ball too long before passing or shooting. If he was more decisive and made better reads he'd eat Gasol and Horford alive. And less face it he was sick in addition to being out of shape the last four games. Game three he looked as physically good as he had all playoffs and he destroyed Gasol. Then he got the flu or whatever the hell that was that just doesnt go away in a week.

Agreed, Embiid needs to keep his head up and learn from Gasol.


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We should be happy teams are double teaming Embiid. Embiid should be happy teams are double teaming him because it means someone else should be open... but I don't believe Embiid sees it that way.

Embiid wants to score and if he is being double teamed he cant score... and that is why I believe he goes to the 3 point line. You can blame Ben or anyone else for having their opponents double down and not giving him the space... but the fact is he could get the space if he really wanted it. He doesn't want it unless the guy he is backing down is 1 on 1 and weighs less than him. He should be using that double team to get other guys open... but I don't think he has matured enough to understand that him being used as a decoy to create space for others is sometimes more beneficial to the team than him scoring. Some of that is on the coaching staff for not beating that into him.

I hope that's some of the maturity we see out of Joel next season... that he understands him getting 35 points might make him feel good... but as a team we would be better if he scored 25 and got easier shots for everyone else.

You want to be doubled team as long as the team can take advantage of that. If they cant and double teams lead to resetting the offense it leads to frustration. Team construction and the offensive system are to blame but its probably much more the former than the latter.

Embiid staying at the 3 point line is most often than not Brown's decision as he can help Reddick get his shot and try to space the floor. If he stayed constantly in the paint, which he should ideally, the offense would look worse than now.

Gasol is still one of if not the BEST post defender in the NBA but not good in space. So they put Embiid in space. Pretty simple IMO.

PhillyFan11 wrote:Again, the 3rd grade excuse of “well Ben isn’t good so it’s ok that Jo wasn’t good either”

Well, it's not easy make a good entry pass if the spacing is bad, and then it's not that easy to read the defense and make the double team pay.
Joel's post game is far from perfect and his vision is nothing like Jokic, but the Sixers are really doing their best to put him in difficult situations.

PhillyFan11 wrote: 1 player not playing well doesn’t bring down the other

Surely you don't believe this.

When five players are working together, if one person doesn't carry their weight, it increases the burden on the others. One player not playing well absolutely does bring down the others.

PhillyFan11 wrote: Pointing to Ben as the reason the team didn’t win is like blaming a LG because the eagles only score 10 in a big game. No, it’s the franchise QB’s fault if that happens.

If the LG is letting his man through every play, how is that the QB's fault? Just a really strange mindset on your part to the point that I have to question if you understand how team activities work.

The team leader, whether it be the QB or Embiid, certainly has a larger responsibility than everyone else, but that doesn't mean they can't be brought down or negatively affected by their team member's failures.

What if it's not just Simmons that isn't able to shoot but all four of his teammates? Let's take it to the extreme and say that Embiid now has to go 1v5 to score while all four teammates are left open on the perimeter because they're unable to shoot/score. Would you then still believe that Embiid wouldn't be brought down by his teammates? It's the same concept, just a difference in degree that he's being brought down.

Embiid has to improve on his decision making, general fitness and approach against bigs that can withstand his power but Ben also cannot be useless to the point of his man being free to double team either. That is the reason why things tend to go to **** in the halfcourt.

On the same token, Embiid has to be more deadly on wide open shots, so defenses can't cheat off of him either. Be it stepping in for a mid range shot or not.

Basically if just one of our two guys improve their shooting or find a way to make defenses pay for leaving them, it would make the team very tough to defend.