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Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:29 pm
by LloydFree
youngcrev wrote:
LloydFree wrote:I'd like it. Would solve some of the end of game issues on offense also.


Yeah? I'd much rather put the ball in Jimmy's hands, and Tobias is a better shooter (and defender). I think Tobias is the better player in general. If Jimmy walks, Russell would be worth looking at.

Putting the ball in Jimmy's hands is a last resort that doesn't work. That's how you get 3 straight empty possessions at the end of a playoff game. Jimmy Butler isn't a PG and he can't in any way handle a pressure defense. Preferring to put the ball in the hands of Jimmy Butler over D'Angelo Russell is preferring to play with one hand tied behind your back.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:52 pm
by youngcrev
LloydFree wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
LloydFree wrote:I'd like it. Would solve some of the end of game issues on offense also.


Yeah? I'd much rather put the ball in Jimmy's hands, and Tobias is a better shooter (and defender). I think Tobias is the better player in general. If Jimmy walks, Russell would be worth looking at.

Putting the ball in Jimmy's hands is a last resort that doesn't work. That's how you get 3 straight emlty possessions at the end of a playoff game. Jimmy Butler isn't a PG and he can't in any way handle a pressure defense. Preferring to put the ball in the hands of Jimmy Butler over D'Angelo Russell is preferring to play with one hand tied behind your back.


Jimmy was an amazing clutch scorer for us... I don't think the team would go to Russell over him or Embiid in late game situations. I don't think the Raptors would've had a tough time bottling up D'Angelo Russell... and it would allow Lowry and VanVleet to be much more effective against us.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm
by kingofthecourt67
LloydFree wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
LloydFree wrote:I'd like it. Would solve some of the end of game issues on offense also.


Yeah? I'd much rather put the ball in Jimmy's hands, and Tobias is a better shooter (and defender). I think Tobias is the better player in general. If Jimmy walks, Russell would be worth looking at.

Putting the ball in Jimmy's hands is a last resort that doesn't work. That's how you get 3 straight empty possessions at the end of a playoff game. Jimmy Butler isn't a PG and he can't in any way handle a pressure defense. Preferring to put the ball in the hands of Jimmy Butler over D'Angelo Russell is preferring to play with one hand tied behind your back.


I would rather have a one handed Jimmy butler handling the ball than Russell handling the ball in a last possession situation.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:57 am
by downtownpie
Butler was great but can't help think a core of Embiid, Simmons, Harris and Dlo us a better long term option.

If Butler was 27 then no question but he's not.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:05 am
by eagereyez
downtownpie wrote:Butler was great but can't help think a core of Embiid, Simmons, Harris and Dlo us a better long term option.

If Butler was 27 then no question but he's not.

This could end up happening. The Lakers will go hard after a 3rd star to add to AD/LBJ and Butler will be one of their targets. If Butler signs with LA, then I would make a significant offer to D'Lo and re-sign Harris.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:45 pm
by LloydFree
kingofthecourt67 wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Yeah? I'd much rather put the ball in Jimmy's hands, and Tobias is a better shooter (and defender). I think Tobias is the better player in general. If Jimmy walks, Russell would be worth looking at.

Putting the ball in Jimmy's hands is a last resort that doesn't work. That's how you get 3 straight empty possessions at the end of a playoff game. Jimmy Butler isn't a PG and he can't in any way handle a pressure defense. Preferring to put the ball in the hands of Jimmy Butler over D'Angelo Russell is preferring to play with one hand tied behind your back.


I would rather have a one handed Jimmy butler handling the ball than Russell handling the ball in a last possession situation.

If you only watch 76ers games and you don't watch Nets games I can totally understand that position.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:17 pm
by kio80
LloydFree wrote:
kingofthecourt67 wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Putting the ball in Jimmy's hands is a last resort that doesn't work. That's how you get 3 straight empty possessions at the end of a playoff game. Jimmy Butler isn't a PG and he can't in any way handle a pressure defense. Preferring to put the ball in the hands of Jimmy Butler over D'Angelo Russell is preferring to play with one hand tied behind your back.


I would rather have a one handed Jimmy butler handling the ball than Russell handling the ball in a last possession situation.

If you only watch 76ers games and you don't watch Nets games I can totally understand that position.


I watch both teams a lot and I don’t think DLo is a good fit at all.
Ben Simmons needs to develop a jump shot, like we all know, we don’t need DLo if Simmons can handle the PG duty. If Simmons doesn’t improve, we trade him for another PG, then we will consider DLo.
Everyone is overrating Jimmy, he’s the best we had last season at clutch and last minute situation, but he’s not enough and we don’t need a 30 year old regressing ex all star for a 5 year max moving forward.
We need Ben and Embiid to improve and build around those 2. Those 2 are the sixers’ future in the next 5-8 years, fruits of the process.
Give them time to improve, more chance to experience and deal with clutch moments. They will get there, as long as Ben works on his jumper.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:15 pm
by Bum Adebayo
So now Sixers fans think D'Bustello is some great player who makes sense to target, don't know why I am surprised lol
He is an inefficient chucker with low FT rate, I want no part of him.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:38 pm
by sixers hoops
If we are committed to making the Simmons-Embiid pairing work, would adding a guy who is a lesser threat from deep be smart?

I feel like we can’t operate like other teams. We are in such a unique situation with Ben, we need all players in our rotation to be very good shooters from deep.

If we add Butler and DLo, then are we complaining about Embiid standing on the three point come playoffs again next year because we have four stars with no room to operate in the post? I feel like Harris should have a good shooting year as he continues to get better looks it our offense.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:40 pm
by youngcrev
Bum Adebayo wrote:So now Sixers fans think D'Bustello is some great player who makes sense to target, don't know why I am surprised lol
He is an inefficient chucker with low FT rate, I want no part of him.


Aside from just how terrible that nickname is, the dude just made the All Star team at age 22 and led a team to the playoffs. I'm not big on him, but to still be calling him a bust is ridiculous.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:44 pm
by youngcrev
sixers hoops wrote:If we are committed to making the Simmons-Embiid pairing work, would adding a guy who is a lesser threat from deep be smart?

I feel like we can’t operate like other teams. We are in such a unique situation with Ben, we need all players in our rotation to be very good shooters from deep.

If we add Butler and DLo, then are we complaining about Embiid standing on the three point come playoffs again next year because we have four stars with no room to operate in the post? I feel like Harris should have a good shooting year as he continues to get better looks it our offense.


Yeah. It's also another guy that needs the ball in his hands, which has been tough enough to juggle as is. If you lose Butler he'd make sense as a guy that score off the bounce, but I don't know how you work a team with Russell, Butler and Simmons while your first option is a post scoring center.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:10 pm
by sixerswillrule
sixers hoops wrote:If we are committed to making the Simmons-Embiid pairing work, would adding a guy who is a lesser threat from deep be smart?

I feel like we can’t operate like other teams. We are in such a unique situation with Ben, we need all players in our rotation to be very good shooters from deep.

If we add Butler and DLo, then are we complaining about Embiid standing on the three point come playoffs again next year because we have four stars with no room to operate in the post? I feel like Harris should have a good shooting year as he continues to get better looks it our offense.


Russell and Harris are similar threats from deep, at least based on last season.

Russell - 37% from 3, 42% of FGA are 3PA, 8 3PA per game
Harris - 40% from 3, 31% of FGA are 3PA, 5 3PA per game

So Russell shoots it on higher volume but a slightly lower %. Butler being a mediocre outside shooter is an issue but that's the same now whether it's Harris or Russell.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:48 pm
by Arsenal
D'Angelo Russell was just as good if not better than Tobias Harris last season. It was Russell's age 22 season while Harris was 26.

If we can somehow swap out Harris for Russell it is a big win for us. Russell should keep improving for the next 5 years while Harris has probably peaked.

PG Russell
SG Redick
SF Butler
PF Simmons
CE Embiid

People calling Russell a bust are living in the past. I understand because it takes a few years for "conventional wisdom" to catch up to reality.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:51 pm
by Arsenal
sixers hoops wrote:If we are committed to making the Simmons-Embiid pairing work, would adding a guy who is a lesser threat from deep be smart?

I feel like we can’t operate like other teams. We are in such a unique situation with Ben, we need all players in our rotation to be very good shooters from deep.

If we add Butler and DLo, then are we complaining about Embiid standing on the three point come playoffs again next year because we have four stars with no room to operate in the post? I feel like Harris should have a good shooting year as he continues to get better looks it our offense.


Russell is likely just as good a shooter as Harris while 4 years younger. It's amazing that in 2019 hardcore fans (like on this board) just blindly go by 3PT% to decide who is a better shooter.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:01 pm
by sixerswillrule
Arsenal wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:If we are committed to making the Simmons-Embiid pairing work, would adding a guy who is a lesser threat from deep be smart?

I feel like we can’t operate like other teams. We are in such a unique situation with Ben, we need all players in our rotation to be very good shooters from deep.

If we add Butler and DLo, then are we complaining about Embiid standing on the three point come playoffs again next year because we have four stars with no room to operate in the post? I feel like Harris should have a good shooting year as he continues to get better looks it our offense.


Russell is likely just as good a shooter as Harris while 4 years younger. It's amazing that in 2019 hardcore fans (like on this board) just blindly go by 3PT% to decide who is a better shooter.


I can't believe I had to explain to someone on here why Joe Harris is not a better shooter than Steph Curry.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:09 pm
by sixers hoops
Arsenal wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:If we are committed to making the Simmons-Embiid pairing work, would adding a guy who is a lesser threat from deep be smart?

I feel like we can’t operate like other teams. We are in such a unique situation with Ben, we need all players in our rotation to be very good shooters from deep.

If we add Butler and DLo, then are we complaining about Embiid standing on the three point come playoffs again next year because we have four stars with no room to operate in the post? I feel like Harris should have a good shooting year as he continues to get better looks it our offense.


Russell is likely just as good a shooter as Harris while 4 years younger. It's amazing that in 2019 hardcore fans (like on this board) just blindly go by 3PT% to decide who is a better shooter.


I’m not sure why you’re quoting me. I don’t go just off three point percentage. I think Tobias looked uncomfortable in our offense and not quite the same player he was with previously. We all have access to the same advanced stats. It’s not like you discovered some new stats that nobody’s has ever heard of.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:11 pm
by Arsenal
sixers hoops wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:If we are committed to making the Simmons-Embiid pairing work, would adding a guy who is a lesser threat from deep be smart?

I feel like we can’t operate like other teams. We are in such a unique situation with Ben, we need all players in our rotation to be very good shooters from deep.

If we add Butler and DLo, then are we complaining about Embiid standing on the three point come playoffs again next year because we have four stars with no room to operate in the post? I feel like Harris should have a good shooting year as he continues to get better looks it our offense.


Russell is likely just as good a shooter as Harris while 4 years younger. It's amazing that in 2019 hardcore fans (like on this board) just blindly go by 3PT% to decide who is a better shooter.


I’m not sure why you’re quoting me. I don’t go just off three point percentage. I think Tobias looked uncomfortable in our offense and not quite the same player he was with previously. We all have access to the same advanced stats. It’s not like you discovered some new stats that nobody’s has ever heard of.


I quoted you because you insinuated that Harris is a better shooter than Russell, and that having Russell instead of Harris would compromise our spacing around Embiid and Simmons. Which is incorrect.

The only possible explanation for this could be looking at their 3PT%.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:16 pm
by sixers hoops
Arsenal wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Russell is likely just as good a shooter as Harris while 4 years younger. It's amazing that in 2019 hardcore fans (like on this board) just blindly go by 3PT% to decide who is a better shooter.


I’m not sure why you’re quoting me. I don’t go just off three point percentage. I think Tobias looked uncomfortable in our offense and not quite the same player he was with previously. We all have access to the same advanced stats. It’s not like you discovered some new stats that nobody’s has ever heard of.


I quoted you because you insinuated that Harris is a better shooter than Russell, and that having Russell instead of Harris would compromise our spacing around Embiid and Simmons. Which is incorrect.

The only possible explanation for this could be looking at their 3PT%.


Try reading again. My post had nothing to do with 3 point percentage, and I don’t want my opinions misrepresented because someone thinks they are on to some secret stats that nobody else knows about.

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:50 pm
by youngcrev
What am I missing here? How isn't Harris a better shooter, even going by advanced metrics?

Re: Would swapping Tobias w D Russ make sense?

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:08 pm
by sixers hoops
youngcrev wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:If we are committed to making the Simmons-Embiid pairing work, would adding a guy who is a lesser threat from deep be smart?

I feel like we can’t operate like other teams. We are in such a unique situation with Ben, we need all players in our rotation to be very good shooters from deep.

If we add Butler and DLo, then are we complaining about Embiid standing on the three point come playoffs again next year because we have four stars with no room to operate in the post? I feel like Harris should have a good shooting year as he continues to get better looks it our offense.


Yeah. It's also another guy that needs the ball in his hands, which has been tough enough to juggle as is. If you lose Butler he'd make sense as a guy that score off the bounce, but I don't know how you work a team with Russell, Butler and Simmons while your first option is a post scoring center.


After watching Russell in the playoffs and the amount of touches he gets, I’m not sure he would be a guy happy to setup in the corner, or be used as more of a floor spacer. With Ben and Jimmy what would his role here realistically be?

Do I love the idea of paying the max to someone like Tobias to be more of a floor spacer than a $30 million player is usually utilized for? Not really but we are in an awkward situation, and he is better than the later limited cap room could likely net us.

Tobias didn’t shoot very well for us anyway, but I would expect, or at least hope for, him to show significant improvement after a midseason change. I don’t know that he or DLo is ideal for this lineup, but I would think Tobias would be more accepting of a role with less touches, and likely provide much better floor spacing.

Maybe I’m overstating the need for floor spacers, but we seem most in need of those players. I don’t know very much about DLo, but he strikes me as a player who wouldn’t be okay with being expected to be more of a catch and shoot guy.