Welcome Matisse Thybulle!

[stormi]

i find thybulle to be a better defensive player than Roco. Mainly because i value individual defense more than most guys.

I don't think so. Not yet. His man defense isn't special yet. He gets beat off the dribble pretty often. His offball defense and instincts though are otherworldly.

He’s more engaged to his man than Roco. And if he is beat, he’d try to block the shot from behind. Which is next level defense. Roco always gets beat on defense and plays with the Fultz style fake lazy demeanor.

Naw I don't see it like that. Roco does have that lazy style to his movements but Roco (asides from attempting to guard Tatum) is usually in front of his man at all times and is adept at using his freakish long arms to bat down passes or get steals. Thybulle does have a higher motor though and follows plays through till the end.

God I wish we could get Roco back and have them terrorizing wings together defensively and knocking down 3's.

[Mavericksfan]

That performance the other night was crazy. If he can provide half of that on a regular basis, he'll be a good pick. We can't have zero production from him, though. He's gotta be able to consistently produce double digit scoring on nights where he's playing 20+ mpg.

What?

His role is not that of a scorer. He's producing at a high level for a rookie regardless of whether or not he scores double digits. As long as he's in passing lanes, swinging the ball, playing good defense,and hitting open shots he's a highly productive player.

If you mean you want him to be a scorer(no clue why, that's not his job and likely never will be) then say that but producing(aka production) on the basketball court means more than scoring.

[phillynative]

I don't think so. Not yet. His man defense isn't special yet. He gets beat off the dribble pretty often. His offball defense and instincts though are otherworldly.

He’s more engaged to his man than Roco. And if he is beat, he’d try to block the shot from behind. Which is next level defense. Roco always gets beat on defense and plays with the Fultz style fake lazy demeanor.

Naw I don't see it like that. Roco does have that lazy style to his movements but Roco (asides from attempting to guard Tatum) is usually in front of his man at all times and is adept at using his freakish long arms to bat down passes or get steals. Thybulle does have a higher motor though and follows plays through till the end.

God I wish we could get Roco back and have them terrorizing wings together defensively and knocking down 3's.

Matisse is quicker, more athletic and may grow to have a less erratic shot. Matisse is more equipped to guard SG's while , he gets beats because he gambles. Roco got beat because he gambled but also didnt have the lateral quickness or recovery speed that matisse possesses. Roco had the edge in size, length and strength.

The good thing is we have Ben , Ennis and Al who all can defend big wings.

I think a knockdown shooter/ shotcreator is more of a need for this team currently.

[XtremeDunkz]

That performance the other night was crazy. If he can provide half of that on a regular basis, he'll be a good pick. We can't have zero production from him, though. He's gotta be able to consistently produce double digit scoring on nights where he's playing 20+ mpg.

What?

His role is not that of a scorer. He's producing at a high level for a rookie regardless of whether or not he scores double digits. As long as he's in passing lanes, swinging the ball, playing good defense,and hitting open shots he's a highly productive player.

If you mean you want him to be a scorer(no clue why, that's not his job and likely never will be) then say that but producing(aka production) on the basketball court means more than scoring.

All Kobble cares about is points. Don't bother trying to debate him on that.

[Kobblehead]

His role is not that of a scorer.

You don't have to be in a scorer's role to be offensively productive and produce points when you're on the floor. Robert Covington's value was top notch because he combined his defense with shot making and point production.

Thybulle's 10.2 ppg per-36 is deficient. He needs to raise that to about 14 ppg per-36 for him to be considered a productive player. As of now, he's just a niche stopper specialist. I think we need more than that. That's not good enough, IMO. Like I said, performances like the other night are a good sign. He just needs to be half as productive on a more consistent basis and we'll be in business.

[stormi]

He’s more engaged to his man than Roco. And if he is beat, he’d try to block the shot from behind. Which is next level defense. Roco always gets beat on defense and plays with the Fultz style fake lazy demeanor.

Naw I don't see it like that. Roco does have that lazy style to his movements but Roco (asides from attempting to guard Tatum) is usually in front of his man at all times and is adept at using his freakish long arms to bat down passes or get steals. Thybulle does have a higher motor though and follows plays through till the end.

God I wish we could get Roco back and have them terrorizing wings together defensively and knocking down 3's.

Matisse is quicker, more athletic and may grow to have a less erratic shot. Matisse is more equipped to guard SG's while , he gets beats because he gambles. Roco got beat because he gambled but also didnt have the lateral quickness or recovery speed that matisse possesses. Roco had the edge in size, length and strength.

The good thing is we have Ben , Ennis and Al who all can defend big wings.

I think a knockdown shooter/ shotcreator is more of a need for this team currently.

It's not even because he gambles. I'm not sure he's ready for the speed of NBA players just yet. And it's not every single time, he's still a good man defender, but he's not on Roco's plane yet. I mean it's a stretch to imagine Matisse to be Tony Allen right out of college and tbf, he's not far away. He just gets driven past pretty often and it doesn't appear to be by design, although he is sneaky and probably the best at playing defenders from behind that I've ever seen. He'll probably a DPOY candidate and first team all defense staple in a season or two when he really gets it figured out. If this core stays intact we'll have three first team all NBA caliber defenders every season. crazy

[phillynative]

Naw I don't see it like that. Roco does have that lazy style to his movements but Roco (asides from attempting to guard Tatum) is usually in front of his man at all times and is adept at using his freakish long arms to bat down passes or get steals. Thybulle does have a higher motor though and follows plays through till the end.

God I wish we could get Roco back and have them terrorizing wings together defensively and knocking down 3's.

Matisse is quicker, more athletic and may grow to have a less erratic shot. Matisse is more equipped to guard SG's while , he gets beats because he gambles. Roco got beat because he gambled but also didnt have the lateral quickness or recovery speed that matisse possesses. Roco had the edge in size, length and strength.

The good thing is we have Ben , Ennis and Al who all can defend big wings.

I think a knockdown shooter/ shotcreator is more of a need for this team currently.

It's not even because he gambles. I'm not sure he's ready for the speed of NBA players just yet. And it's not every single time, he's still a good man defender, but he's not on Roco's plane yet. I mean it's a stretch to imagine Matisse to be Tony Allen right out of college and tbf, he's not far away. He just gets driven past pretty often and it doesn't appear to be by design, although he is sneaky and probably the best at playing defenders from behind that I've ever seen. He'll probably a DPOY candidate and first team all defense staple in a season or two when he really gets it figured out. If this core stays intact we'll have three first team all NBA caliber defenders every season. crazy

Maybe i need to watch him more intently but i dont see him get beat unless he gambles or is out of position(due to experience). Rob got beat because he simply didnt have the quickness. I think you are overrating him defensively.

[stormi]

Matisse is quicker, more athletic and may grow to have a less erratic shot. Matisse is more equipped to guard SG's while , he gets beats because he gambles. Roco got beat because he gambled but also didnt have the lateral quickness or recovery speed that matisse possesses. Roco had the edge in size, length and strength.

The good thing is we have Ben , Ennis and Al who all can defend big wings.

I think a knockdown shooter/ shotcreator is more of a need for this team currently.

It's not even because he gambles. I'm not sure he's ready for the speed of NBA players just yet. And it's not every single time, he's still a good man defender, but he's not on Roco's plane yet. I mean it's a stretch to imagine Matisse to be Tony Allen right out of college and tbf, he's not far away. He just gets driven past pretty often and it doesn't appear to be by design, although he is sneaky and probably the best at playing defenders from behind that I've ever seen. He'll probably a DPOY candidate and first team all defense staple in a season or two when he really gets it figured out. If this core stays intact we'll have three first team all NBA caliber defenders every season. crazy

Maybe i need to watch him more intently but i dont see him get beat unless he gambles or is out of position(due to experience). Rob got beat because he simply didnt have the quickness. I think you are overrating him defensively.

You could be right. Confirmation bias is a real thing too and it's been a note i've made in my mind a while back so maybe I'm just falling victim. Either way, imagine trading Matisse for Grant Williams and Carson Edwards

[blargh]

I haven’t seen Matisse get beat a lot in isolation, but he does have some learning to do around navigating NBA screens. My guess is BB told him, “just always fight over the screen”, which he seems to be doing and its good he has the motor to do so, and still challenge the shot when he’s trailing. Over time though, the really good perimeter defenders know when’s the right time to slip under and meet the ball handler on the other side of the screen.

[Mavericksfan]

His role is not that of a scorer.

You don't have to be in a scorer's role to be offensively productive and produce points when you're on the floor. Robert Covington's value was top notch because he combined his defense with shot making and point production.

Thybulle's 10.2 ppg per-36 is deficient. He needs to raise that to about 14 ppg per-36 for him to be considered a productive player. As of now, he's just a niche stopper specialist. I think we need more than that. That's not good enough, IMO. Like I said, performances like the other night are a good sign. He just needs to be half as productive on a more consistent basis and we'll be in business.

Can you show me the rulebook that states 14 per 36 is the cut off for a “productive player”?

That is ridiculously arbitrary measure of production(even for just offense)

[Pipp33]

This kid is fast becoming one of my favourite players! He plays with energy, hussle and maturity.

[agiaco]

Matisse +20 in 26 minutes tonight.

[SixthStreet]

Moving forward, who will make an all star team first, Matisse or Ben? Highest probability is neither are all stars, but maybe it’s not such a crazy question?

[TTP]

Moving forward, who will make an all star team first, Matisse or Ben? Highest probability is neither are all stars, but maybe it’s not such a crazy question?

The guy that's already been an All-Star...

It's a crazy question and Ben Simmons is not <50% to make an All-Star team going forward while Matisse certainly is.

[TheBallsDeeper]

Thybulle seems to have a really high BBIQ. I saw a few glimpses today of ball handling and passing that got me thinking - could Thybulle develop into a secondary ball handler?

In the few times he handled the ball he looks as capable as Richardson (who I don’t rate as a ball handler and player maker, he lacks skill and IQ)

I’d like to see Brown run a few pick and roll plays with Thybulle running it. However we all know Brett Brown will not do it, much rather run the stationary dribble handoff into traffic.

[Tony Franciosa]

this kid is going to develop into a 6th man of the year contender.

[Ukphillyfan76]

Such exciting potential, what’s the best way to develop Thybulle? Greater Ball handling responsibilities / more offensive looks? ( too much to soon? ) Or go the prototypical 3 & D route? Given the qualities already displayed? Pac-12 Defensive Player of the Year honors in his final two seasons under Mike Hopkins. Thoughts?

[Negrodamus]

Such exciting potential, what’s the best way to develop Thybulle? Greater Ball handling responsibilities / more offensive looks? ( too much to soon? ) Or go the prototypical 3 & D route? Given the qualities already displayed? Pac-12 Defensive Player of the Year honors in his final two seasons under Mike Hopkins. Thoughts?

I don't think his upside is going to be attacking the basket. Loved the dunks in transition, but when there's more defensive traffic, it will be tougher. It's a shame he never crossed over with JJ because his best development would be to move without the ball like Redick did. That said, he has naturally been good at doing just that in his own right as a rookie.

Offense aside, what he provides in disrupting the opponents offense is truly invaluable.

[Kobblehead]

this kid is going to develop into a 6th man of the year contender.

I don't see how that's even a possibility.

For one, Thybulle's skillset suggests he'll be a complimentary 5th starter sooner rather than later.

Secondly, the 6th man of the year is a scoring award. Tony Allen doesn't get that award. Jet Terry, Jamal Crawford, Lou Will, James Harden, Manu, Barbosa, Ben Gordon, Eric Gordon, Bobby Jackson types do.

[ProcessDoctor]

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When is the last time a player known for defense won ROY?