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2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1

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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#521 » by LeonJordanJr24 » Mon May 11, 2020 8:54 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Since when does Jimmy Butler struggle getting buckets? He's the shotcreator that can defend type that we need. Doubt you're getting anyone like that at #22 in this draft. You better be prepared to trade up to the lotto to get someone like that.

Again, just because we didn't win a championship in the one year we went to the playoffs with Robert Covington as a supporting piece or the one year we went to the playoffs with Jimmy Butler as a headliner doesn't mean we should avoid good defenders and strictly target spacers.

Also, disagree about Tobias. He's the losing skillset guy that we need to avoid.



Where was does buckets the last 4mins in the fourth vs Toronto ?
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#522 » by Kobblehead » Mon May 11, 2020 9:55 pm

Jimmy was the only guy who even showed up for us against the Raptors.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#523 » by Negrodamus » Tue May 12, 2020 2:43 pm

Cassius Stanley feels like poor man's Andrew Wiggins when he was at Kansas. Mechanical in his movements when the ball is in his hands, explosive athlete, mainly off ball. I'm surprised his highlight dunks aren't pushing him up the boards.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#524 » by Fischella » Tue May 12, 2020 4:53 pm

Negrodamus wrote:For one, I don’t think it’s particularly realistic to expect minutes from a late first rookie in the playoffs. That’s said, a player like Desmond Bane was an excellent creator, especially PnR, with good distribution numbers and elite perimeter shooting. He has some attributes that give off the impression that he’s capable of being an on ball player at the next level. However, he realistically will be 3&D with the D needing development. I could live with a guy like that despite him not being at the top of my list.

the guy you want is Grant Riller
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#525 » by Fischella » Tue May 12, 2020 4:54 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Aside from playing against terrible competition, is there a reason Grant Riller is so low? His shooting profile is pretty great, he has explosiveness to the rim, and he generates turnovers (2+ STL% every year he was at CofC). He’s another one that I’d be completely content with drafting with our first rounder.

None, just doubts about that, but some guys pan out as studs and even if different game plays he is more talented offensively than Derrick White obviously

he should be a top10 pick
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#526 » by Kobblehead » Tue May 12, 2020 5:20 pm

What separates Grant Riller from other shrimps with crazy handle at small schools that we see on a yearly basis, though?

1.4 makes per game at 35.5% from three
79.6% free throw
20.7% assist percentage

I'm not seeing any trait that stands out as special that makes me think he's a hidden gem.

Just seems like a tiny guy with crazy handle and finishing ability.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#527 » by Negrodamus » Tue May 12, 2020 5:35 pm

Just going off the tool that youngWizzy posted, but James Harden, Ja Morant, and Brandon Roy posted similar three point shooting numbers. 80% FT certainly isn't bad.

Isn't he like 6'3? I think that's adequate size for a combo guard. Also, I'd lean more toward recency in terms of stats rather than the whole body of work. His AST% has been 26% and 30% in his past two years.

If advanced metrics are your pleasure, Synergy rates Riller excellent in overall offense (1.055 points per possession), excellent as a pick and roll ball handler (1.103 ppp), excellent in isolation (1.115 ppp), excellent in jump shots off the dribble (1.021 ppp) and very good at catch and shoot (1.138 ppp).


https://www.nba.com/article/2020/02/11/charleston-grant-riller-draft-feature
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#528 » by Kobblehead » Tue May 12, 2020 5:40 pm

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2018-11-22-19-louisiana-state.html

Pretty bad look for Riller.

4 points on 20% true shooting in 34 minutes.

If he's no-showing against Tremont Waters like this, maybe his garbage competition is driving his numbers more than people realize.

Looks like he had another quiet 9 point game against LSU as an underclassman, also.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#529 » by Negrodamus » Tue May 12, 2020 5:43 pm

Kobblehead wrote:https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2018-11-22-19-louisiana-state.html

Pretty bad look for Riller.

4 points on 20% true shooting in 34 minutes.

If he's no-showing against Tremont Waters like this, maybe his garbage competition is driving his numbers more than people realize.

Looks like he had another quiet 9 point game against LSU as an underclassman, also.


I can agree on this regard. He does struggle against the major conference opponents the past two years which is a bad look. Wake Forest was a bit of a stinker this year too.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#530 » by Kobblehead » Tue May 12, 2020 6:06 pm

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2018-11-18-16-oklahoma-state.html

7 points on 21.6% true shooting in 38 minutes against Oklahoma State
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#531 » by Kobblehead » Tue May 12, 2020 6:07 pm

Just seems like he has no standout traits and disappears in every game against a school people heard of before.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#532 » by Negrodamus » Tue May 12, 2020 6:46 pm

Speaking of guys playing well against great competition, is Kevon Harris a guy to look at in the second round?



He cooked the **** out of Duke this year. Was his conference's POY. Pretty decent shooting numbers.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#533 » by Fischella » Tue May 12, 2020 8:40 pm

Kobblehead wrote:What separates Grant Riller from other shrimps with crazy handle at small schools that we see on a yearly basis, though?

1.4 makes per game at 35.5% from three
79.6% free throw
20.7% assist percentage

I'm not seeing any trait that stands out as special that makes me think he's a hidden gem.

Just seems like a tiny guy with crazy handle and finishing ability.

He is not tiny, he is 6'3, strong, explosive, has amazing burst

His body control is unreal good, decision making is solid, pull-up jumper too, +30% 3par with a ton of pull-ups, high high usage %, 30 assist% as a senior, good stocks numbers, obv gets to the rim, elite shooting numbers no matter how you want to slice it, esp considering the amount of unassisted makes over the years
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#534 » by Monix » Tue May 12, 2020 9:38 pm

a common mistake in scouting is to not take what your seeing and project it into the role a guy is likely to play at the next level

when a mid-major plays a power-5 school, the one NBA prospect on their team is likely to be game-planned against in a way that is much different than a complimentary player is

Riller won't be an offensive engine PG in the NBA so he won't have defenses stacked to stop him. I'm sure the LSU gameplan was entirely focused on not letting him get off. Any team drafting Riller with the plan to hand him the ball and have him lead them to the playoffs is likely making a terrible decision.

I'm not as high on Riller as Fischella is, but pointing to a small sample without context is not a way to talk about draft prospects thoughtfully
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#535 » by Kobblehead » Tue May 12, 2020 9:38 pm

Fischella wrote:He is not tiny, he is 6'3, strong, explosive, has amazing burst

His body control is unreal good, decision making is solid, pull-up jumper too, +30% 3par with a ton of pull-ups, high high usage %, 30 assist% as a senior, good stocks numbers, obv gets to the rim, elite shooting numbers no matter how you want to slice it, esp considering the amount of unassisted makes over the years


Listed at 6'3", looks about 6'1" at most. And doesn't have elite athleticism to make up for his tiny stature.

I think you're tossing "elite" around too liberally when describing shooting ability. First Cole Anthony and now Grant Riller. These guys are average shooting talents, at best. Dame Lillard and Trae Young were elite shooting talents with pullup heavy games. Not these guys. And Markus Howard meets this description far better than Anthony and Riller.

Average athlete, average shooting, subpar positional facilitating, bad defense. I don't see anything exceptionable about him other than his handle and finishing ability.

So why tout a random guy from some no-name college who's an average joe physical specimen and lacks a well-rounded game? Especially if he performs terribly whenever he does go up against a step up in competition? Seems like a recipe for disaster. You still want to burn a lotto pick on this guy?
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#536 » by Kobblehead » Tue May 12, 2020 9:44 pm

Monix wrote:when a mid-major plays a power-5 school, the one NBA prospect on their team is likely to be game-planned against in a way that is much different than a complimentary player is

Why should that matter, if he's the real deal?

Ja Morant dropped 38 on Alabama, 28 on Florida State. You don't think those teams' sole intent was to stop him? Grant Riller can't even score a bucket on Tremont Waters...
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#537 » by Monix » Tue May 12, 2020 10:27 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Why should that matter, if he's the real deal?

Ja Morant dropped 38 on Alabama, 28 on Florida State. You don't think those teams' sole intent was to stop him? Grant Riller can't even score a bucket on Tremont Waters...

any comparison of the likely rookie of the year and top-2 draft pick to a projected 2nd rounder would seem off, no?
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#538 » by Kobblehead » Tue May 12, 2020 11:23 pm

Monix wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Why should that matter, if he's the real deal?

Ja Morant dropped 38 on Alabama, 28 on Florida State. You don't think those teams' sole intent was to stop him? Grant Riller can't even score a bucket on Tremont Waters...

any comparison of the likely rookie of the year and top-2 draft pick to a projected 2nd rounder would seem off, no?

The guy who I'm having a conversation with thinks he should go top 10.

Also, not sure why you would excuse no-name school guys no-showing in games that are a step up from their normal competition. That's a pretty easy way to weed out guys that might not be NBA players.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#539 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 13, 2020 2:47 pm

After further review, I think Fitts has a TJ Warren profile but with better shooting and more small ball PF. TJ has grown into a good ISO scorer, has never really been much of a defender. If we mercifully move Tobias or Horford, he could be a nice piece off the bench initially. Could maybe become a better passer and focused defender on a team with established defensive stars.

I'm willing to commit to a guy who provides a skillset we are lacking terribly. I don't think better shooting TJ Warren moves the needle, but in the areas we're drafting, I think it's worth the risk.
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Re: 2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1 

Post#540 » by Kobblehead » Wed May 13, 2020 3:05 pm

I don't think Warren had that much 1-on-1 game at N.C. State. I think they just ran a ton of offense for him. And when he did have the ball in his hands, he'd just be super decisive out of his stance and get a quick shot up. Not a whole lot of creating. And for reference, he's been assisted on well over 60% of his buckets at the NBA level.

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