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Welcome Al Horford(?!?)

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76ciology
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#321 » by 76ciology » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:07 pm

tigermars wrote:
76ciology wrote:Do you guys think Malcolm Brogdon would have helped our spacing more than Al does THIS 2019-2020 season?


Not much, he was a reluctant shooter, getting open shots create by Giannis. This year pacers he is shooting ball more, but not so much off ball movement. And when the raptor went big after Embiid was on Siakam, raptor’s went super huge. Unless we are getting Steph or Klay spacing is scraficed for poor defense. And not enough bigs to handles the buck nor lakers.


We share the same view on the size issue.

What can you say about Brogdon’s ability to shoot 3s this season?
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#322 » by tigermars » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:38 pm

76ciology wrote:
tigermars wrote:
76ciology wrote:Do you guys think Malcolm Brogdon would have helped our spacing more than Al does THIS 2019-2020 season?


Not much, he was a reluctant shooter, getting open shots create by Giannis. This year pacers he is shooting ball more, but not so much off ball movement. And when the raptor went big after Embiid was on Siakam, raptor’s went super huge. Unless we are getting Steph or Klay spacing is scraficed for poor defense. And not enough bigs to handles the buck nor lakers.


We share the same view on the size issue.

What can you say about Brogdon’s ability to shoot 3s this season?


I haven’t watched much this year, but he is probably more consistent, but but rather have him sans injury risk than Harris Especially salary difference, and maybe plays defense bigger than Richardson. Maybe instead of Harris the salary difference can allow an Richardson extension.

I would have trade Mike Scott and Zhaire Smith or any Non Thybulle prospects assets for David Bertands. He is like HUGE size redick in terms of gravity and volume. And match any deal for Bertands. Sans Klay Thompson One quick trigger and range is an overpaid for fit I would go for.

I would have been happy with Brogdan Richarson Simmons Bertands/Thybulle Embiid Starting lineup.

Al is a bit overpaid, due to age, but smaller ball with simmons and Bertands is quite a fit. No more -10 when Embiid sits. Maybe trade Richardson to replenish assets if roster get too expensive. Left over prospects, Milton or Shayok can fill wing minutes.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#323 » by Sixerscan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:26 pm

The Wizards weren't trading Bertans for that.

Brogdon was actually pretty mediocre after a hot October/November. He also missed 1/4 of their games and had just torn his hip days before the shut down. The injuries are part of the package with him. Not saying Horford was a better investment but Brogdon wouldn't have been a home run either (without even getting into what it would have taken to get the Bucks not to match).
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#324 » by youngcrev » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:37 pm

Yes, the spacing would be better with Brogdon than Horford in spite of his poor shooting percentages this year. 3 point shooting is a decent indicator, but it's not the only one. When you've got multiple guys that naturally to go to and want to get the ball in similar spots on the floor, your spacing is going to suck.

You also have to factor that a lot of JRich's on ball stuff would be going to Brogdon, meaning Richardson would be used in a more effective manner.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#325 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:13 pm

Let’s say Brogdon and Al aren’t shooting well.

I think Al can bring more to the table.

A guard who can’t shoot has a higher penalty than a big who can’t shoot. Specially when your other guard is Ben Simmons.

Now, if both guys are shooting as per their average this season (and not theoretical), I think Al is the better floor spacer.

The plus we can get from Brogdon is maybe telling Brett all the offensive sets of the Bucks :lol:
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#326 » by youngcrev » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:55 pm

76ciology wrote:Let’s say Brogdon and Al aren’t shooting well.

I think Al can bring more to the table.

A guard who can’t shoot has a higher penalty than a big who can’t shoot. Specially when your other guard is Ben Simmons.

Now, if both guys are shooting as per their average this season (and not theoretical), I think Al is the better floor spacer.

The plus we can get from Brogdon is maybe telling Brett all the offensive sets of the Bucks :lol:


Can he though on this team? Because Al's pretty much just a spot up shooter when he's on the floor with the starters. Brogdon at least gives you some playmaking off the dribble. I also think teams would be quicker to leave Horford open on the perimeter if he's not making shots than Brogdon.

Not sure there's much of a defensive advantage when you factor in that guys would be slotted better positionally defensively with Brogdon.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#327 » by 76ciology » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:54 am

youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:Let’s say Brogdon and Al aren’t shooting well.

I think Al can bring more to the table.

A guard who can’t shoot has a higher penalty than a big who can’t shoot. Specially when your other guard is Ben Simmons.

Now, if both guys are shooting as per their average this season (and not theoretical), I think Al is the better floor spacer.

The plus we can get from Brogdon is maybe telling Brett all the offensive sets of the Bucks :lol:


Can he though on this team? Because Al's pretty much just a spot up shooter when he's on the floor with the starters. Brogdon at least gives you some playmaking off the dribble. I also think teams would be quicker to leave Horford open on the perimeter if he's not making shots than Brogdon.

Not sure there's much of a defensive advantage when you factor in that guys would be slotted better positionally defensively with Brogdon.


Al creates mismatch by allowing smaller defenders to be placed on either or both Ben or Tobi.

If you look at Brogdon’s role as not a primary playmaker (Bucks stint), his assists per game and assists% are lower than Al. And that role as not a primary playmaker is his likely role with his team.

Now if you consider spacing, i dont know if how defenders will react, this is subjective and varies player to player. But looking at the percentage, we can be objective enough to say Horford is a better 3pt shooter.

Then if you look at rotations and possible 5 man units, having a center who can provide +NetRtg when Biid is off is very valuable with our team’s make-up.

On the defensive end, I also think Horford would have been more valuable.

I think on paper, Horford was a good signing overall given how the numbers (538) would say we were the favorites to win (before the season started) it after we got him.

Overall, I think if Brogdon was a better shooter or better scorer he would have been a better signing. And his style relies a lot on being ball dominant which may compliment Biid but definitely not Ben. The guy who would have made us better IMO is his backcourt teammate who wears #4 for his team.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#328 » by youngcrev » Wed Jul 1, 2020 9:15 am

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
76ciology wrote:Let’s say Brogdon and Al aren’t shooting well.

I think Al can bring more to the table.

A guard who can’t shoot has a higher penalty than a big who can’t shoot. Specially when your other guard is Ben Simmons.

Now, if both guys are shooting as per their average this season (and not theoretical), I think Al is the better floor spacer.

The plus we can get from Brogdon is maybe telling Brett all the offensive sets of the Bucks :lol:


Can he though on this team? Because Al's pretty much just a spot up shooter when he's on the floor with the starters. Brogdon at least gives you some playmaking off the dribble. I also think teams would be quicker to leave Horford open on the perimeter if he's not making shots than Brogdon.

Not sure there's much of a defensive advantage when you factor in that guys would be slotted better positionally defensively with Brogdon.


Al creates mismatch by allowing smaller defenders to be placed on either or both Ben or Tobi.

If you look at Brogdon’s role as not a primary playmaker (Bucks stint), his assists per game and assists% are lower than Al. And that role as not a primary playmaker is his likely role with his team.

Now if you consider spacing, i dont know if how defenders will react, this is subjective and varies player to player. But looking at the percentage, we can be objective enough to say Horford is a better 3pt shooter.

Then if you look at rotations and possible 5 man units, having a center who can provide +NetRtg when Biid is off is very valuable with our team’s make-up.

On the defensive end, I also think Horford would have been more valuable.

I think on paper, Horford was a good signing overall given how the numbers (538) would say we were the favorites to win (before the season started) it after we got him.

Overall, I think if Brogdon was a better shooter or better scorer he would have been a better signing. And his style relies a lot on being ball dominant which may compliment Biid but definitely not Ben. The guy who would have made us better IMO is his backcourt teammate who wears #4 for his team.


Those mismatches Al creates also haven't led to good offense. With Embiid-Horford-Harris-Simmons on the floor, the team has an attrocious ORTG of 99.7. Having an individual size mismatch doesn't do you that much good if a team can easily double you without penalty.

It's not being objective to say Al is a better 3 point shooter. Brogdon had a bad 3 point shooting year, but he's still a career .385 guy even with this year dragging him down, and takes more difficult, off the dribble attempts.

I also don't see why the Sixers wouldn't be able to take advantage of his on ball playmaking skills. He'd be the best off the dribble threat on the team in terms of both shooting and passing. Not having to rely on JRich for that stuff would be a major plus.

I mean... We're talking about Shake taking Horford's starting spot. And I really don't see any argument for Shake being a better current player than Brogdon.

Horford has been an awful fit on the floor with our best player, and that's a major issue.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#329 » by 76ciology » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:39 pm

Let’s just see when the season resumes. I think we’ll be able to figure it out. And as fan of our team i think we should root that they will figure it out

Nevertheless I don’t see a guard who shoots 31% from 3 that either needs to be primary playmaker or an off ball role player who arguably has less playmaking skill than Al could be better than Al.

Based on our last two playoff runs, we need 3 things.
1.) empowering our guys to create better on 1v1
2.) avoiding mismatch on defense
3.) a 5 man unit that wont suck without Biid
4.) shoring up our frontcourt given neither Ben or Tobi can’t defend centers or big PFs like Siakam, Giannis and sometimes Anthony Davis

I know that NetRtg with Al isnt that good. But if the game is just about NetRtg then we probably would have made more than the 2nd round for the last two seasons. While the OKC’s trio of Schroder, SGA and CP3 (highest net rtg trio) made them the OKC the clear favorite to win it all.

Playoffs is more about match-ups than NetRtgs that has a lot of noise to it playing regular season style basketball (arguably different than playoffs) and against weaker opponents.

I think the answer to this right now is up in the air. At worst, Brogdon being a better addition than Al is not as obvious as it was when Brogdon was on fire at the early stretch of the season
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#330 » by youngcrev » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:52 pm

Again, he's a 31% 3 point shooter in a 48 game sample size. Career he's 38.5%. He's also damn near a 90% free throw guy.

As for net rating, you're the one bringing it up. I haven't even mentioned it. I'm talking about the offense, which has been really bad with Embiid and Horford on the floor.

Maybe (hopefully) they do better in the playoffs, but it's been bad this far, and is naturally a poor fit in general. Too many guys are playing out of position and it's just generally clunky offensively.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#331 » by tigermars » Wed Jul 1, 2020 3:30 pm

Sixerscan wrote:The Wizards weren't trading Bertans for that.

Brogdon was actually pretty mediocre after a hot October/November. He also missed 1/4 of their games and had just torn his hip days before the shut down. The injuries are part of the package with him. Not saying Horford was a better investment but Brogdon wouldn't have been a home run either (without even getting into what it would have taken to get the Bucks not to match).


In terms of fit I think Brogdon at under max is better fit than Tobias. Not juries plays a part.

Al is here to provide 48of plus net ratings, albeit expensively.
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Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#332 » by tigermars » Wed Jul 1, 2020 3:34 pm

Sixerscan wrote:The Wizards weren't trading Bertans for that.

Brogdon was actually pretty mediocre after a hot October/November. He also missed 1/4 of their games and had just torn his hip days before the shut down. The injuries are part of the package with him. Not saying Horford was a better investment but Brogdon wouldn't have been a home run either (without even getting into what it would have taken to get the Bucks not to match).


He is the perfect player to play with Simmons and Embiid, How many future picks protected would you add?

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