ImageImageImage

Welcome Al Horford(?!?)

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, CoreyGallagher, BullyKing, Sixerscan, Foshan, sixers hoops

Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,546
And1: 11,956
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#161 » by Sixerscan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:44 pm

snoopdogg88 wrote:My biggest concern with Horford is simply his age and the amount of mileage he has on his tires.

I think people don’t realize he dealt with a knee tendinitis issue that lasted most of last season.

It’s nice to assume he’ll play 70+ games and fill in at center every time Embiid needs a game off and give him major in game rest , but if Horford has to deal with his own nagging injuries and rest games, we’re back at step 1 with Embiid.


Yeah I think the plan should be to give Horford plenty of nights off too. Give Oquinn and Bolden lots of chances to play during the regular season.
ivysixer2000
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,613
And1: 1,249
Joined: Feb 24, 2005

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#162 » by ivysixer2000 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:57 pm

Wrangor wrote:Having 2 of the top 5 post defenders in the league is going to super valuable. Additionally you have a super athletic and big backcourt to funnel shooters to the lane.

The formula is going to be pretty simple for the 76ers next year defensively. Attack shooters and force them to drive to the heart of the defense. Big men help and the rest of the team rotates to closest opposing player. Since all 5 starters can guard all 5 positions the rotations should be fairly easy particularly with a 24 sec shot clock.

It’s going to be beautiful defense to watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah related to the last post, I understand the theory behind the D but in practice I'm worried about us being able to bring that kind of intensity every night. Horford isn't young anymore, it will be interesting to see how BB will get them to bring it defensively every night cause that hasn't exactly been one of BB's strong suits.

Offensively we could struggle, so we will need to bring that defensive intensity every night. Can we??....guess that why we watch the games.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 26,504
And1: 11,342
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#163 » by Kobblehead » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:52 pm

See, I think the opposite.

Offensively, I think we'll be fine. Horford is a legitimate floor stretcher and excellent passer.

Defensively is where I see the issues. Horford cannot defend in space like we're imagining. He's not Paul Millsap and never was. He's strictly a post defender that communicates at an elite level, moving the chess pieces in front of him. So he's kind of a weird fit next to Embiid.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,546
And1: 11,956
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#164 » by Sixerscan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:25 pm

Horford was in a top 2 defender starting with Aron Baynes. Embiid was in a top 5 defense starting with Dario Saric. It’ll be fine.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 26,504
And1: 11,342
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#165 » by Kobblehead » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:33 pm

It's fine, it's just not ideal. Hopefully they only play together for like 8-10 minutes a night.

Hot take: I think our defense is going to be significantly better with Horford at the 5 on Embiid's load management nights.

Nobody wants to talk about it, but Joel was a switch liability last year. Still an elite post defender and rim protector, but dude couldn't defend in space at all. Injuries and poor conditioning adding up, I suppose.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,546
And1: 11,956
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#166 » by Sixerscan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:10 pm

I think they’re gonna be great together, and things not falling apart on that end when Embiid sits will be a big boost. If the Sixers end up being better on either end while Embiid sits it could get scary.
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 19,399
And1: 2,856
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#167 » by youngcrev » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:47 pm

Kobblehead wrote:It's fine, it's just not ideal. Hopefully they only play together for like 8-10 minutes a night.

Hot take: I think our defense is going to be significantly better with Horford at the 5 on Embiid's load management nights.

Nobody wants to talk about it, but Joel was a switch liability last year. Still an elite post defender and rim protector, but dude couldn't defend in space at all. Injuries and poor conditioning adding up, I suppose.


I think that was scheme rather than Embiid being any type of liability.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 26,504
And1: 11,342
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#168 » by Kobblehead » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:45 pm

I don't think scheme has anything to do with a player's ability to defend in space. You either can or you can't. Most bigmen can't. However, Embiid has proven in the past to one of the exceptions that can. But last year, he regularly got toasted. Probably had something to do with a bad back, bad knees, a heavy weight, and poor stamina.

I'm hoping with a reduced playing weight and some better conditioning, he can get back to being a guy that isn't a switch liability.
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 19,399
And1: 2,856
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#169 » by youngcrev » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:15 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I don't think scheme has anything to do with a player's ability to defend in space. You either can or you can't. Most bigmen can't. However, Embiid has proven in the past to one of the exceptions that can. But last year, he regularly got toasted. Probably had something to do with a bad back, bad knees, a heavy weight, and poor stamina.

I'm hoping with a reduced playing weight and some better conditioning, he can get back to being a guy that isn't a switch liability.


I don't really recall him doing poorly. I do remember their insistence on dropping him to the rim on every pick and roll which drove me nuts.
VDT
Senior
Posts: 617
And1: 351
Joined: Oct 13, 2018

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#170 » by VDT » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:43 pm

There is a difference between being able to switch and doing it all the time, particularly for a player like Embiid that has mediocre stamina but has to anchor the defense and carry the offense at the same time.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 26,504
And1: 11,342
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#171 » by Kobblehead » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:55 pm

After a while of him getting destroyed in space, they probably told him to hang back on screens. Embiid clearly wasn't at his defensive best last year.
LloydFree
RealGM
Posts: 12,964
And1: 8,999
Joined: Aug 20, 2012
Location: Somewhere near the Jersey Turnpike, between exit 4 and 15E

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#172 » by LloydFree » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:59 pm

Kobblehead wrote:See, I think the opposite.

Offensively, I think we'll be fine. Horford is a legitimate floor stretcher and excellent passer.

Defensively is where I see the issues. Horford cannot defend in space like we're imagining. He's not Paul Millsap and never was. He's strictly a post defender that communicates at an elite level, moving the chess pieces in front of him. So he's kind of a weird fit next to Embiid.

I can't see Horford being any worse than Dario Saric was in space, from the PF position. The 76ers were a top 10 defense with Saric on the court (with JJ Redick out there too no-less).
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
Chris76
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,813
And1: 281
Joined: May 06, 2017
   

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#173 » by Chris76 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:34 pm

LloydFree wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:See, I think the opposite.

Offensively, I think we'll be fine. Horford is a legitimate floor stretcher and excellent passer.

Defensively is where I see the issues. Horford cannot defend in space like we're imagining. He's not Paul Millsap and never was. He's strictly a post defender that communicates at an elite level, moving the chess pieces in front of him. So he's kind of a weird fit next to Embiid.

I can't see Horford being any worse than Dario Saric was in space, from the PF position. The 76ers were a top 10 defense with Saric on the court (with JJ Redick out there too no-less).


Embiid with a help defender like Horford should be great. Also, Simmons has turned out to be very good at help defense, too. Rim protection should be a strong advantage for the Sixers.
snoopdogg88
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,663
And1: 2,892
Joined: Jun 03, 2010
       

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#174 » by snoopdogg88 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:15 pm

I would love to know the real truth and be a fly on the wall to know whether Horford was actually Elton’s Plan A or if he wanted to bring Butler back.

Was he really dead set on this vision of Horford as super insurance for Joel and changing this team’s identity to stifling defense?

Or was he Team Run It Back, but forced to go with Plan B once it became apparent Jimmy wanted out.
ankle420breaker
Head Coach
Posts: 7,392
And1: 857
Joined: Sep 21, 2005
Location: South Jersey

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#175 » by ankle420breaker » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:59 pm

snoopdogg88 wrote:I would love to know the real truth and be a fly on the wall to know whether Horford was actually Elton’s Plan A or if he wanted to bring Butler back.

Was he really dead set on this vision of Horford as super insurance for Joel and changing this team’s identity to stifling defense?

Or was he Team Run It Back, but forced to go with Plan B once it became apparent Jimmy wanted out.


Pretty sure I recall Brand saying that we wanted to re-sign Butler, while kind of inferring there was a growing sense that Butler had different plans. Losing JJ to NO probably caught him more off-guard.

I thought it was a master stroke on Brand's part to not get caught flat-footed and aggressively pursue alternative options like Horford and the J-Rich s&t.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 40,264
And1: 12,765
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#176 » by 76ciology » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:28 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:
snoopdogg88 wrote:I would love to know the real truth and be a fly on the wall to know whether Horford was actually Elton’s Plan A or if he wanted to bring Butler back.

Was he really dead set on this vision of Horford as super insurance for Joel and changing this team’s identity to stifling defense?

Or was he Team Run It Back, but forced to go with Plan B once it became apparent Jimmy wanted out.


Pretty sure I recall Brand saying that we wanted to re-sign Butler, while kind of inferring there was a growing sense that Butler had different plans. Losing JJ to NO probably caught him more off-guard.

I thought it was a master stroke on Brand's part to not get caught flat-footed and aggressively pursue alternative options like Horford and the J-Rich s&t.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app


My guess is at some point Brand wanted to bring Jimmy back and at some point Brand did want something back for Jimmy.

My guess is bringing Jimmy back was plan A. But it kinda hurt Ben and Tobi’s game and that wouldnt max out the upside of the team. With Jimmy, Ben is glued at the dunker spot while Tobi is reduced to a spot up shooter.
Twitter: Pjeffersonlim| S i x e r s |
¨Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.¨
- Marcus Aurelius
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 26,504
And1: 11,342
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#177 » by Kobblehead » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:28 pm

I believe the reports that the Sixers "wanted out of the Jimmy Butler business."

I think we offered him the max to protect the asset, more than anything. And secretly because we knew he'd decline because he already had his sights set on Miami.
LloydFree
RealGM
Posts: 12,964
And1: 8,999
Joined: Aug 20, 2012
Location: Somewhere near the Jersey Turnpike, between exit 4 and 15E

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#178 » by LloydFree » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:21 pm

I don't know that Al Horford was the original plan A. But it's more likely than plan A being bringing Jimmy Butler back. I don't believe for a second that the 76ers ever had any intention of bringing Jimmy Butler back on a 5 year max. And I don't believe for a second, they ever had any intention of bringing BOTH back on 5 year maxes and guaranteeing 5 straight years of repeater tax. When they traded for Tobias, it was clear he was their hedge against being trapped into keeping Butler.

I think it's clear that the singing of Horford was in the works at least a month before Free Agency and that the 76ers were aware they could clear space to sign him. Brand gave an offer significant enough for Horford to opt out of his 30 million, a month before Free-agency. Horford then gave the Celtics a chance to negotiate, without letting them know he already had an offer. It's clear that was the case, because when he broke off talks it caught Boston by surprise. The 76ers knew they weren't bringing Butler back, and knew they'd have the money to sign Horford into Butler's huge Caphold.

What's not clear is if they knew the Heat were still interested in trading Richardson for Butler, like they'd already offered Minny last season. I tend to believe these discussions have been in the works long before June 30, and they waited to see if Miami could convince Butler to sign with them.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,546
And1: 11,956
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#179 » by Sixerscan » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:41 pm

If it wasn't plan A then it was a pretty impressive pivot when plan A didn't work out
Aussiepiston1
Rookie
Posts: 1,084
And1: 204
Joined: Mar 12, 2009
   

Re: Welcome Al Horford(?!?) 

Post#180 » by Aussiepiston1 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:41 am

I think it was either JJ Redick, Jimmy and Horford or Harris, J rich and Horford cause there's no way Jimmy and Harris were gonna play together

Return to Philadelphia 76ers