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Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4

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Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#1 » by BullyKing » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:39 pm

Keep the discussion going here
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the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#2 » by Ben » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:54 pm

I've mentioned David Nwaba here before. If he could just develop a slightly better 3P shot, he would be a really valuable bench guy. Does everything else, including defend. I knew there was no spot for him in Philly, but still a little disappointed to see the Nets sign him. But I'm happy for Nwaba himself. Seems like a very good and hardworking guy.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#3 » by LloydFree » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:06 am

Ben wrote:I've mentioned David Nwaba here before. If he could just develop a slightly better 3P shot, he would be a really valuable bench guy. Does everything else, including defend. I knew there was no spot for him in Philly, but still a little disappointed to see the Nets sign him. But I'm happy for Nwaba himself. Seems like a very good and hardworking guy.

David Nwaba, is a perfect example of how the emphasis of the 3 point shot has killed some good role players. A great defensive player. If he just shot 4% higher, (probably just 4 extra makes in the season for him) he'd probably command 8 million per, instead of the minimum. Meanwhile a bum like Frank Kaminsky, who is unplayable, gets 10 million because he can hit a wide open 3, and shoots 36%.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#4 » by Ben » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:23 am

LloydFree wrote:
Ben wrote:I've mentioned David Nwaba here before. If he could just develop a slightly better 3P shot, he would be a really valuable bench guy. Does everything else, including defend. I knew there was no spot for him in Philly, but still a little disappointed to see the Nets sign him. But I'm happy for Nwaba himself. Seems like a very good and hardworking guy.

David Nwaba, is a perfect example of how the emphasis of the 3 point shot has killed some good role players. A great defensive player. If he just shot 4% higher, (probably just 4 extra makes in the season for him) he'd probably command 8 million per, instead of the minimum. Meanwhile a bum like Frank Kaminsky, who is unplayable, gets 10 million because he can hit a wide open 3, and shoots 36%.


But if he could be brought in here with a really good shooting coach and a little bit of room to develop, I think he could make it to that 34-35% level that would make him a multi-year keeper. Really like the guy.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#5 » by ckchen » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:31 am

Ben wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Ben wrote:I've mentioned David Nwaba here before. If he could just develop a slightly better 3P shot, he would be a really valuable bench guy. Does everything else, including defend. I knew there was no spot for him in Philly, but still a little disappointed to see the Nets sign him. But I'm happy for Nwaba himself. Seems like a very good and hardworking guy.

David Nwaba, is a perfect example of how the emphasis of the 3 point shot has killed some good role players. A great defensive player. If he just shot 4% higher, (probably just 4 extra makes in the season for him) he'd probably command 8 million per, instead of the minimum. Meanwhile a bum like Frank Kaminsky, who is unplayable, gets 10 million because he can hit a wide open 3, and shoots 36%.


But if he could be brought in here with a really good shooting coach and a little bit of room to develop, I think he could make it to that 34-35% level that would make him a multi-year keeper. Really like the guy.


Not really sure why you would think that we have the developmental/shooting coaches that could do that. If so, they should be working with Ben and....frankly everyone else on the team. Sadly, nothing about our team's development program seems to be able to magically make anyone a better 3 pt. shooter. And unfortunately there isn't much room on the team to develop someone like that right now that they've entered "win now" mode.

Plus, I mean, the guy is 26 at this point. Not saying it's impossible to improve at this point, but i think it does get harder unfortunately. I think it's very rare for a Bruce Bowen type to suddenly just magically develop a reliable 3 pt shot 4 years into their career.

Unfortunately, the league is littered with guys like this, hard-nosed players, solid scrappy defenders who "if only" they could develop a 3 pt shot, could become something. I think the team would rather try to turn Zhaire and Matisse into those guys vs. someone like Nwaba. Unfortunately I think we have this persistent myth that if only someone worked with a shooting coach they would be able to improve dramatically - but sadly I don't think it's that easy. I mean people dog Simmons all day about shooting as if he doesn't know that if he could shoot 3s he would be a much better player. Do these people think he hasn''t attempted hundreds or thousands of 3s with a shooting coach? "Learning to shoot" i think is WAY WAY harder than people like to talk about it, and I think very few people see dramatic improvement or find it very difficult to break their habits. Or in the most extreme case forget how to shoot when trying to break it down and relearn and then become a completely wasted #1 draft pick.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#6 » by Skates » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:57 am

Still hoping for another ball handler and shot creator for themselves and others to add veteran depth, yes, I am looking at you Trey Burke. I just don't have confidence with Shake being more than the fourth PG on any team, much less one with ambitions to contend. I like Neto and Simmons plays a lot of minutes and I expect Harris will create more with Jimmy gone, but I would feel more solid with a guy like Burke on the team. I would much rather have him than Korver who plays a position of depth and defense on this team.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#7 » by hookshot199 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:56 am

ckchen wrote:
Ben wrote:
LloydFree wrote:David Nwaba, is a perfect example of how the emphasis of the 3 point shot has killed some good role players. A great defensive player. If he just shot 4% higher, (probably just 4 extra makes in the season for him) he'd probably command 8 million per, instead of the minimum. Meanwhile a bum like Frank Kaminsky, who is unplayable, gets 10 million because he can hit a wide open 3, and shoots 36%.


But if he could be brought in here with a really good shooting coach and a little bit of room to develop, I think he could make it to that 34-35% level that would make him a multi-year keeper. Really like the guy.


Not really sure why you would think that we have the developmental/shooting coaches that could do that. If so, they should be working with Ben and....frankly everyone else on the team. Sadly, nothing about our team's development program seems to be able to magically make anyone a better 3 pt. shooter. And unfortunately there isn't much room on the team to develop someone like that right now that they've entered "win now" mode.

Plus, I mean, the guy is 26 at this point. Not saying it's impossible to improve at this point, but i think it does get harder unfortunately. I think it's very rare for a Bruce Bowen type to suddenly just magically develop a reliable 3 pt shot 4 years into their career.

Unfortunately, the league is littered with guys like this, hard-nosed players, solid scrappy defenders who "if only" they could develop a 3 pt shot, could become something. I think the team would rather try to turn Zhaire and Matisse into those guys vs. someone like Nwaba. Unfortunately I think we have this persistent myth that if only someone worked with a shooting coach they would be able to improve dramatically - but sadly I don't think it's that easy. I mean people dog Simmons all day about shooting as if he doesn't know that if he could shoot 3s he would be a much better player. Do these people think he hasn''t attempted hundreds or thousands of 3s with a shooting coach? "Learning to shoot" i think is WAY WAY harder than people like to talk about it, and I think very few people see dramatic improvement or find it very difficult to break their habits. Or in the most extreme case forget how to shoot when trying to break it down and relearn and then become a completely wasted #1 draft pick.

I don't know little about the intricacies of teaching shooting or who are the best coaches. But Brand
did hire one of the assistants in San Antonio. Is Cameron Hodges unproven or not highly regarded?

Secondly, Spotrac still lists the Bucks as having a room exception.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/cap/

Room Exception $4,767,000
($4,767,000)
Trade Exception $604,462
($604,462) Tony Snell trade with DET 06/21/2020


https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/06/report-sixers-add-spurs-cameron-hodges-to-player-development-staff/

By: Josh Naso | June 6, 2019 5:02 pm ET

Per a report from Keith Pompey on inquier.com, the Philadelphia 76ers are expected to add Cameron Hodges to their player development staff, starting next month when his work with the San Antonio Spurs concludes.

Hodges has spent three seasons in San Antonio, where he worked under Spurs assistant and head of player development Chip Engelland. Engelland, a former professional player himself, has developed a reputation as an elite shooting coach.

Now, Hodges will bring the knowledge he picked up from Engelland to the Sixers, where he is expected to take on a similar role in Philadelphia with an emphasis on shooting.

The natural conclusion is that Hodges will be spending a lot of time with Ben Simmons, as the young All-Star looks to add a serviceable jump shot to his arsenal.

If Simmons can consistently shoot 70-75 percent from the free throw line and add just enough of a jump shot that defenders have to respect the threat to shoot the sky is the limit for him. Hopefully, Hodges can help Simmons get to that point.

Hodges will work alongside Lindsey Harding, who was promoted from scout to player development coach earlier this year.

With the assumption that the Sixers will be up against the salary cap for the foreseeable future once next season’s roster is constructed, player development will take on an increasingly critical role in the franchise’s success. Hopefully with Harding, and now Hodges, the team has laid a solid foundation for the player development department.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#8 » by ckchen » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:30 pm

hookshot199 wrote:I don't know little about the intricacies of teaching shooting or who are the best coaches. But Brand
did hire one of the assistants in San Antonio. Is Cameron Hodges unproven or not highly regarded?

Secondly, Spotrac still lists the Bucks as having a room exception.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/cap/

Room Exception $4,767,000
($4,767,000)
Trade Exception $604,462
($604,462) Tony Snell trade with DET 06/21/2020


https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/06/report-sixers-add-spurs-cameron-hodges-to-player-development-staff/

By: Josh Naso | June 6, 2019 5:02 pm ET

Per a report from Keith Pompey on inquier.com, the Philadelphia 76ers are expected to add Cameron Hodges to their player development staff, starting next month when his work with the San Antonio Spurs concludes.

Hodges has spent three seasons in San Antonio, where he worked under Spurs assistant and head of player development Chip Engelland. Engelland, a former professional player himself, has developed a reputation as an elite shooting coach.

Now, Hodges will bring the knowledge he picked up from Engelland to the Sixers, where he is expected to take on a similar role in Philadelphia with an emphasis on shooting.

The natural conclusion is that Hodges will be spending a lot of time with Ben Simmons, as the young All-Star looks to add a serviceable jump shot to his arsenal.

If Simmons can consistently shoot 70-75 percent from the free throw line and add just enough of a jump shot that defenders have to respect the threat to shoot the sky is the limit for him. Hopefully, Hodges can help Simmons get to that point.

Hodges will work alongside Lindsey Harding, who was promoted from scout to player development coach earlier this year.

With the assumption that the Sixers will be up against the salary cap for the foreseeable future once next season’s roster is constructed, player development will take on an increasingly critical role in the franchise’s success. Hopefully with Harding, and now Hodges, the team has laid a solid foundation for the player development department.


Hard to say - he was an assistant. But the guy we had before, John Townsend, was a "renowned shooting coach" - and what did that get us exactly? To me, this just emphasizes that it's simply not that easy to teach someone how to shoot/improve their shooting.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-hire-former-spurs-assistant-cameron-hodges-player-development-coach
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#9 » by Sixerscan » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:35 pm

Nwaba just seems like the low end version of what we want Thybulle and Zhaire to become, right? Someone Korver may be limited in other ways but he at least provides a different skill set to utilize.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#10 » by hookshot199 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:46 pm

ckchen wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:I don't know little about the intricacies of teaching shooting or who are the best coaches. But Brand
did hire one of the assistants in San Antonio. Is Cameron Hodges unproven or not highly regarded?

Secondly, Spotrac still lists the Bucks as having a room exception.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/cap/

Room Exception $4,767,000
($4,767,000)
Trade Exception $604,462
($604,462) Tony Snell trade with DET 06/21/2020


https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/06/report-sixers-add-spurs-cameron-hodges-to-player-development-staff/

By: Josh Naso | June 6, 2019 5:02 pm ET

Per a report from Keith Pompey on inquier.com, the Philadelphia 76ers are expected to add Cameron Hodges to their player development staff, starting next month when his work with the San Antonio Spurs concludes.

Hodges has spent three seasons in San Antonio, where he worked under Spurs assistant and head of player development Chip Engelland. Engelland, a former professional player himself, has developed a reputation as an elite shooting coach.

Now, Hodges will bring the knowledge he picked up from Engelland to the Sixers, where he is expected to take on a similar role in Philadelphia with an emphasis on shooting.

The natural conclusion is that Hodges will be spending a lot of time with Ben Simmons, as the young All-Star looks to add a serviceable jump shot to his arsenal.

If Simmons can consistently shoot 70-75 percent from the free throw line and add just enough of a jump shot that defenders have to respect the threat to shoot the sky is the limit for him. Hopefully, Hodges can help Simmons get to that point.

Hodges will work alongside Lindsey Harding, who was promoted from scout to player development coach earlier this year.

With the assumption that the Sixers will be up against the salary cap for the foreseeable future once next season’s roster is constructed, player development will take on an increasingly critical role in the franchise’s success. Hopefully with Harding, and now Hodges, the team has laid a solid foundation for the player development department.


Hard to say - he was an assistant. But the guy we had before, John Townsend, was a "renowned shooting coach" - and what did that get us exactly? To me, this just emphasizes that it's simply not that easy to teach someone how to shoot/improve their shooting.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/76ers/sixers-hire-former-spurs-assistant-cameron-hodges-player-development-coach



Don't/can't disagree. What about Milwaukee's room exception, if true?
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#11 » by ckchen » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:48 pm

hookshot199 wrote:Don't/can't disagree. What about Milwaukee's room exception, if true?


Nope, they signed Robin Lopez with that.

https://www.brewhoop.com/2019/7/1/20676836/report-milwaukee-bucks-sign-robin-lopez-with-room-exception-nba-free-agency-rumors
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#12 » by youngcrev » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:10 pm

JR Smith.... Would ya?

Doesn't seem like he's good enough to deal with his nonsense anymore.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#13 » by ckchen » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:12 pm

youngcrev wrote:JR Smith.... Would ya?

Doesn't seem like he's good enough to deal with his nonsense anymore.


Yeah not worth the headache and also just not a consistent enough shooter to play a specific role off the bench.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#14 » by BullyKing » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:12 pm

youngcrev wrote:JR Smith.... Would ya?

Doesn't seem like he's good enough to deal with his nonsense anymore.


I would because that's the beauty of our situation - if he acts up even a little you just cut him.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#15 » by Eyeamok » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:11 pm

I must have missed the discussion. But did Jimmy Butler turn down a 5 year guaranteed deal to sign a 4 year deal with the Heat?
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#16 » by 76ciology » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:29 pm

youngcrev wrote:JR Smith.... Would ya?

Doesn't seem like he's good enough to deal with his nonsense anymore.


No. Rather have korver if u consider jr
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#17 » by Skates » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:32 pm

Eyeamok wrote:I must have missed the discussion. But did Jimmy Butler turn down a 5 year guaranteed deal to sign a 4 year deal with the Heat?



That seems to be Jimmy's story but it sounds more like the Sixers were offering more of a three year max as far as guaranteed money goes. Only the parties really know, but the I had a full five year max offer and turned it down rings a little hollow to me.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#18 » by hookshot199 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:53 pm

ckchen wrote:
hookshot199 wrote:Don't/can't disagree. What about Milwaukee's room exception, if true?


Nope, they signed Robin Lopez with that.

https://www.brewhoop.com/2019/7/1/20676836/report-milwaukee-bucks-sign-robin-lopez-with-room-exception-nba-free-agency-rumors


Thanks. So basically the two lead contenders for Korver's service (the Lakers and Bucks) are, as you said
in the same position as the Sixers. So he'll either make a basketball decision - to go to Milwaukee or Philly
- or a lifestyle decision: to go to the Lakers.

I believe the Clippers still have some flexibility, but I also believe their first need is a center.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#19 » by Ben » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:10 pm

hookshot199 wrote:
ckchen wrote:
Ben wrote:
But if he could be brought in here with a really good shooting coach and a little bit of room to develop, I think he could make it to that 34-35% level that would make him a multi-year keeper. Really like the guy.


Not really sure why you would think that we have the developmental/shooting coaches that could do that. If so, they should be working with Ben and....frankly everyone else on the team. Sadly, nothing about our team's development program seems to be able to magically make anyone a better 3 pt. shooter. And unfortunately there isn't much room on the team to develop someone like that right now that they've entered "win now" mode.

Plus, I mean, the guy is 26 at this point. Not saying it's impossible to improve at this point, but i think it does get harder unfortunately. I think it's very rare for a Bruce Bowen type to suddenly just magically develop a reliable 3 pt shot 4 years into their career.

Unfortunately, the league is littered with guys like this, hard-nosed players, solid scrappy defenders who "if only" they could develop a 3 pt shot, could become something. I think the team would rather try to turn Zhaire and Matisse into those guys vs. someone like Nwaba. Unfortunately I think we have this persistent myth that if only someone worked with a shooting coach they would be able to improve dramatically - but sadly I don't think it's that easy. I mean people dog Simmons all day about shooting as if he doesn't know that if he could shoot 3s he would be a much better player. Do these people think he hasn''t attempted hundreds or thousands of 3s with a shooting coach? "Learning to shoot" i think is WAY WAY harder than people like to talk about it, and I think very few people see dramatic improvement or find it very difficult to break their habits. Or in the most extreme case forget how to shoot when trying to break it down and relearn and then become a completely wasted #1 draft pick.


I don't disagree a lot, and to be fair, my initial post was as follows:
Ben wrote:If he could just develop a slightly better 3P shot, he would be a really valuable bench guy. Does everything else, including defend. I knew there was no spot for him in Philly, but still a little disappointed to see the Nets sign him.


We weren't going to bring him in.

As to your point about it being so very difficult to learn shooting, I would just offer the counter-examples of the many big men who have learned to be passable 3P shooters.
Al Horford is the first guy who came to mind, but there are many others like him.
In Horford's first five seasons, he attempted twelve 3-pointers and made three of them.
In his sixth season he attempted six 3pointers.
The first time he attempted double-digits in 3P shots was his seventh season, age 27. He shot 11 of them.
The next year, 36. So in his first eight seasons he was 21 of 65, or 32.3% on very low volume.

And for the next four years after that, up through last season, Horford took 200+ 3-pointers each season and averaged 37.1% over that high volume period.

If he were the only guy in that category, I would say it was just something bizarre. But he's not. Seems to me that it's not an impossible task if someone really wants to learn the skill. The thing about Ben Simmons is that up until now he hasn't seemed to want that. I have hopes that he's going to get better and more confident over the coming 3-4 years.

EDIT: Dewayne Dedmon just came to mind as well, as I didn't remember him being a 3P shooter during college. Sure enough, he was 0-4 from 3P range in college (could have been end-of-the-half heaves) over two years. In the pros, he attempted ONE 3P shot through his first SEVEN seasons (missed it), before attempting 358 three pointers in the past two seasons and converting on 37% of them.
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Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#20 » by hookshot199 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:18 pm

BullyKing wrote:
youngcrev wrote:JR Smith.... Would ya?

Doesn't seem like he's good enough to deal with his nonsense anymore.


I would because that's the beauty of our situation - if he acts up even a little you just cut him.



In the five seasons before last, he made 794 threes out of 2,068 attempts - 38%. I think his bad rep is
a bit undeserved. On the other hand, he is a bit unpredictable.

But if he's the best veteran shooter out there if/when Korver declines to sign, we should consider him.
He's surely a far better player as he was when he drove George Karl nuts early in his career.

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