ImageImageImage

Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, sixers hoops, CoreyGallagher, Sixerscan, Foshan

the_process
RealGM
Posts: 17,306
And1: 3,985
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#181 » by the_process » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:05 am

BullyKing wrote:
the_process wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
I don't know. I'm sure they tried to get Harris and Horford for less. Now you can certainly make a reasonable argument that they should have walked away from him either but I'd be surprised if they didn't try to get the prices down as much as possible.


Don’t forget the Thybulle trade. Elton seems to like to pay top price.


I've been as critical as anyone about his less than judicious use of assets. But I just don't think swapping out Korkmaz for Shamet was something he could have pulled off. But definitely concerning that he doesn't appear to have a walkaway point once he locks in on something.

In fairness though, I've been shocked at the prices in a lot of trades this summer (Crabbe dump, Iggy dump, AD, PG13, Josh Jackson dump, Conley trade).


That might be true. But he didn’t even have the chance to negotiate it because he impetuously declined Korkmaz’s option because Korkmaz demanded a trade.

If this team wins a title, it will be in spite of management.
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,454
And1: 11,836
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#182 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:13 am

Why didn't Jerry West tell the thunder that they would only give them 3 first round picks for Paul George. Value at the margins. You don't get to the moon by climbing a tree. Violence at the rim. And so on.
BullyKing
Forum Mod - 76ers
Forum Mod - 76ers
Posts: 9,582
And1: 8,631
Joined: Jan 16, 2014

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#183 » by BullyKing » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:16 am

the_process wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
the_process wrote:
Don’t forget the Thybulle trade. Elton seems to like to pay top price.


I've been as critical as anyone about his less than judicious use of assets. But I just don't think swapping out Korkmaz for Shamet was something he could have pulled off. But definitely concerning that he doesn't appear to have a walkaway point once he locks in on something.

In fairness though, I've been shocked at the prices in a lot of trades this summer (Crabbe dump, Iggy dump, AD, PG13, Josh Jackson dump, Conley trade).


That might be true. But he didn’t even have the chance to negotiate it because he impetuously declined Korkmaz’s option because Korkmaz demanded a trade.

If this team wins a title, it will be in spite of management.


I'm sure this is not how he planned it but didn't he prove correct to decline the option. If he picked it up, Korkmaz would have been guaranteed over $2 million and we'd have to decide in October whether to guarantee another $3.7 more. Now we have him for only $1.6 next year and don't have to decide until next July whether to give him another $1.8 more.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 17,306
And1: 3,985
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#184 » by the_process » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:54 am

BullyKing wrote:
the_process wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
I've been as critical as anyone about his less than judicious use of assets. But I just don't think swapping out Korkmaz for Shamet was something he could have pulled off. But definitely concerning that he doesn't appear to have a walkaway point once he locks in on something.

In fairness though, I've been shocked at the prices in a lot of trades this summer (Crabbe dump, Iggy dump, AD, PG13, Josh Jackson dump, Conley trade).


That might be true. But he didn’t even have the chance to negotiate it because he impetuously declined Korkmaz’s option because Korkmaz demanded a trade.

If this team wins a title, it will be in spite of management.


I'm sure this is not how he planned it but didn't he prove correct to decline the option. If he picked it up, Korkmaz would have been guaranteed over $2 million and we'd have to decide in October whether to guarantee another $3.7 more. Now we have him for only $1.6 next year and don't have to decide until next July whether to give him another $1.8 more.


Because I don’t see him playing ahead of Smith or Thybulle, I’d argue Korkmaz being cheaper is actually a negative because they can take less salary back for him in a trade. Now if he makes the rotation, then yes Brand was right.

I still want to know what happened with Fenerbache. Very odd that it was announced he was going home, and then suddenly came back to the team from whom he had requested a trade last year and was denied, for the minimum nonetheless.
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 17,306
And1: 3,985
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#185 » by the_process » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:56 am

Sixerscan wrote:Why didn't Jerry West tell the thunder that they would only give them 3 first round picks for Paul George. Value at the margins. You don't get to the moon by climbing a tree. Violence at the rim. And so on.


So overpay for everything. Got it.
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,454
And1: 11,836
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#186 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:58 am

the_process wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:Why didn't Jerry West tell the thunder that they would only give them 3 first round picks for Paul George. Value at the margins. You don't get to the moon by climbing a tree. Violence at the rim. And so on.


So overpay for everything. Got it.


Saying "value at the margins" in every post doesn't mean you know what things cost.
User avatar
LloydFree
RealGM
Posts: 12,887
And1: 8,906
Joined: Aug 20, 2012
Location: Somewhere near the Jersey Turnpike, between exit 4 and 15E

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#187 » by LloydFree » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:01 am

the_process wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
the_process wrote:
Don’t forget the Thybulle trade. Elton seems to like to pay top price.


I've been as critical as anyone about his less than judicious use of assets. But I just don't think swapping out Korkmaz for Shamet was something he could have pulled off. But definitely concerning that he doesn't appear to have a walkaway point once he locks in on something.

In fairness though, I've been shocked at the prices in a lot of trades this summer (Crabbe dump, Iggy dump, AD, PG13, Josh Jackson dump, Conley trade).


That might be true. But he didn’t even have the chance to negotiate it because he impetuously declined Korkmaz’s option because Korkmaz demanded a trade.

If this team wins a title, it will be in spite of management.

This is one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on here. You're so hung up trying to hold on to the notion that Elton Brand is a bafoon for trading Landry friggin Shamet and one Miami 1st rounder, that you can't even see that the same "bafoons" just put together the best 76ers starting lineup and only real title contender in over 35 years. What do you want... a contender, or a future Miami 1st? Unbelievable.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 17,306
And1: 3,985
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#188 » by the_process » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:03 am

Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:Why didn't Jerry West tell the thunder that they would only give them 3 first round picks for Paul George. Value at the margins. You don't get to the moon by climbing a tree. Violence at the rim. And so on.


So overpay for everything. Got it.


Saying "value at the margins" in every post doesn't mean you know what things cost.


I’m not following. Are you arguing that Elton doesn’t overpay in every meaningful trade or FA signing?
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,454
And1: 11,836
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#189 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:04 am

LloydFree wrote:
the_process wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
I've been as critical as anyone about his less than judicious use of assets. But I just don't think swapping out Korkmaz for Shamet was something he could have pulled off. But definitely concerning that he doesn't appear to have a walkaway point once he locks in on something.

In fairness though, I've been shocked at the prices in a lot of trades this summer (Crabbe dump, Iggy dump, AD, PG13, Josh Jackson dump, Conley trade).


That might be true. But he didn’t even have the chance to negotiate it because he impetuously declined Korkmaz’s option because Korkmaz demanded a trade.

If this team wins a title, it will be in spite of management.[/quote]
This is one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on here. You're so hung up trying to holdi on to the notion that Elton Brand is a bafoon for trading Landry friggin Shamet and one Miami 1st rounder, that you can't even see that the same "bafoons" just put together the best 76ers starting lineup and only real title contender in over 35 years. What do you want... a contender, or a future Miami 1st? Unbelievable.


Nah he wanted Elton to stamp his foot and chant value at the margins at Jerry West until West dealt Tobias Harris for the corpse of Hip Hop and a 4 and 20 meat pie.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 17,306
And1: 3,985
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#190 » by the_process » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:11 am

LloydFree wrote:
the_process wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
I've been as critical as anyone about his less than judicious use of assets. But I just don't think swapping out Korkmaz for Shamet was something he could have pulled off. But definitely concerning that he doesn't appear to have a walkaway point once he locks in on something.

In fairness though, I've been shocked at the prices in a lot of trades this summer (Crabbe dump, Iggy dump, AD, PG13, Josh Jackson dump, Conley trade).


That might be true. But he didn’t even have the chance to negotiate it because he impetuously declined Korkmaz’s option because Korkmaz demanded a trade.

If this team wins a title, it will be in spite of management.

This is one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on here. You're so hung up trying to holdi on to the notion that Elton Brand is a bafoon for trading Landry friggin Shamet and one Miami 1st rounder, that you can't even see that the same "bafoons" just put together the best 76ers starting lineup and only real title contender in over 35 years. What do you want... a contender, or a future Miami 1st? Unbelievable.


To be a real contender this year, Ben has to be shooting and Tobias has to live up to that 180M contract. Color me skeptical while also acknowledging they are clearly the 2nd best team in the East.
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,454
And1: 11,836
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#191 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:14 am

the_process wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
So overpay for everything. Got it.


Saying "value at the margins" in every post doesn't mean you know what things cost.


I’m not following. Are you arguing that Elton doesn’t overpay in every meaningful trade or FA signing?


I'm saying that's impossible to know unless you are inside the head of the other GM. He trades or pays enough to get the deal done. If all you have to argue is strawmen and hypotheticals that's a sign he's probably done a decent enough job. Like Lloyd said we have a great team around Simmons and Embiid that has been entirely acquired by Brand at this point so I don't really care to argue about how Korkmaz who just signed in August for the league minimum after being rumored to be going back to Europe would have had trade value a few months ago if only Elton had picked up his option, or Horford would have taken less money if he was just asked, and so on.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 17,306
And1: 3,985
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#192 » by the_process » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:23 am

Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Saying "value at the margins" in every post doesn't mean you know what things cost.


I’m not following. Are you arguing that Elton doesn’t overpay in every meaningful trade or FA signing?


I'm saying that's impossible to know unless you are inside the head of the other GM. He trades or pays enough to get the deal done. If all you have to argue is strawmen and hypotheticals that's a sign he's probably done a decent enough job. Like Lloyd said we have a great team around Simmons and Embiid that has been entirely acquired by Brand at this point so I don't really care to argue about how Korkmaz who just signed in August for the league minimum after being rumored to be going back to Europe would have had trade value a few months ago if only Elton had picked up his option, or Horford would have taken less money if he was just asked, and so on.


Clearly that’s not the case or you wouldn’t have commented. And having a very good team isn’t enough.
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
Aussiepiston1
Rookie
Posts: 1,083
And1: 204
Joined: Mar 12, 2009
   

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#193 » by Aussiepiston1 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:28 am

Glad Korkmaz is back, hopefully he becomes the next Korver. Now we just gotta bring back Justin Patton.....
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,454
And1: 11,836
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#194 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:33 am

the_process wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
I’m not following. Are you arguing that Elton doesn’t overpay in every meaningful trade or FA signing?


I'm saying that's impossible to know unless you are inside the head of the other GM. He trades or pays enough to get the deal done. If all you have to argue is strawmen and hypotheticals that's a sign he's probably done a decent enough job. Like Lloyd said we have a great team around Simmons and Embiid that has been entirely acquired by Brand at this point so I don't really care to argue about how Korkmaz who just signed in August for the league minimum after being rumored to be going back to Europe would have had trade value a few months ago if only Elton had picked up his option, or Horford would have taken less money if he was just asked, and so on.


Clearly that’s not the case or you wouldn’t have commented. And having a very good team isn’t enough.


Oh now we're arguing what words mean, always fun. I think the team has a legit shot to win a title, we'll see how they do. If they pull it off I'll catch your seminar at the parade about how if only Elton would have waited another hour and insisted on keeping Shamet that West would have relented and we would have won in 5 games instead of 6.
PhilasFinest
RealGM
Posts: 14,640
And1: 3,579
Joined: Mar 13, 2007
     

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#195 » by PhilasFinest » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:45 am

Aussiepiston1 wrote:Glad Korkmaz is back, hopefully he becomes the next Korver. Now we just gotta bring back Justin Patton.....


Hey that would be great and I'd be all for it....and I understand the whole "It takes some guys times" theory of development, but I highly doubt Korkmaz, a career 32% 3PT shooter is going to become the next Korver, who's arguably 1 of the best pure shooters in the history of the NBA.
SparksFly87 wrote:Towns got boat feet and gets off the ground very slow with a lack of explosiveness . He is a rich mans Henry Sims to me. No thanks .
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 17,306
And1: 3,985
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#196 » by the_process » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:45 am

Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
I'm saying that's impossible to know unless you are inside the head of the other GM. He trades or pays enough to get the deal done. If all you have to argue is strawmen and hypotheticals that's a sign he's probably done a decent enough job. Like Lloyd said we have a great team around Simmons and Embiid that has been entirely acquired by Brand at this point so I don't really care to argue about how Korkmaz who just signed in August for the league minimum after being rumored to be going back to Europe would have had trade value a few months ago if only Elton had picked up his option, or Horford would have taken less money if he was just asked, and so on.


Clearly that’s not the case or you wouldn’t have commented. And having a very good team isn’t enough.


Oh now we're arguing what words mean, always fun. I think the team has a legit shot to win a title, we'll see how they do. If they pull it off I'll catch your seminar at the parade about how if only Elton would have waited another hour and insisted on keeping Shamet that West would have relented and we would have won in 5 games instead of 6.


Sounds lovely. And if they don’t I’ll be excited to hear your presentation on NBA championship team building where the team in question is in the tax with only one star.
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 29,454
And1: 11,836
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#197 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:52 am

the_process wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
the_process wrote:
Clearly that’s not the case or you wouldn’t have commented. And having a very good team isn’t enough.


Oh now we're arguing what words mean, always fun. I think the team has a legit shot to win a title, we'll see how they do. If they pull it off I'll catch your seminar at the parade about how if only Elton would have waited another hour and insisted on keeping Shamet that West would have relented and we would have won in 5 games instead of 6.


Sounds lovely. And if they don’t I’ll be excited to hear your presentation on NBA championship team building where the team in question is in the tax with only one star.


I didn't say they were a lock to win a championship? They're in range just like 8 other teams. If they lose this year they might win next year.

Your whole argument boils down to "Brand could have made trades/signing for less if he just tried harder" which is on its face a strawman.
ckchen
Veteran
Posts: 2,653
And1: 520
Joined: Aug 07, 2001

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#198 » by ckchen » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:52 am

the_process wrote:I still want to know what happened with Fenerbache. Very odd that it was announced he was going home, and then suddenly came back to the team with whom he had requested a trade last year, for the minimum nonetheless.


It's not really all that odd. It was never officially announced that he was definitely going to Fenerbache, just that he had an offer there. In fact, I think there were statements that his preference was to stay in the NBA. I imagine when Korver picked Milwaukee, it opened up the possibility for Korkmaz to come back here, so he took it because he prefers to stay in the NBA. Other NBA teams probably weren't that interested in a deal but the Sixers are at least familiar with him so offered him a deal as a Plan B to Korver. Seems pretty straightforward to me. He can always play in Turkey whenever he wants, it's a lot harder to get back to the NBA once he leaves. If he has an opportunity to stay in the NBA, it makes sense he would take it.
User avatar
stormi
Junior
Posts: 263
And1: 214
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
 

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#199 » by stormi » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:50 am

elton... :o

Image

Image
User avatar
Ben
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 26,336
And1: 2,435
Joined: Feb 09, 2006

Re: Summer Free Agency 2019 Part 4 

Post#200 » by Ben » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:16 am

stormi wrote:elton... :o

Image


Holy smokes. This is indeed incomplete, but it's really illuminating and a bit alarming for anyone who's relying on the "trade filler" trope for some of these contracts. What struck me from glancing through team salary pages just now was how few guys there are, period, in the $3-6M range. Bobi is pretty much the only bench scorer I could find on those rosters there, should Dallas suck unexpectedly and/or should they get another big man. I kind of like Trier, but I don't know why NY would trade him only one year after he was drafted (since he's playing decently). Really surprised.

This isn't to say that we can't trade for or acquire someone who's not in that $3-6M range, but it sort of dents alleged rationale of having signed certain guys just to add up $6M. I think we probably signed certain guys in order to have them on this team.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers