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So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett

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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#21 » by 76ciology » Sun Sep 8, 2019 7:25 am

It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#22 » by XtremeDunkz » Sun Sep 8, 2019 12:58 pm

76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Ben forced Ben in to the dunker spot by being a non threat anywhere else on the floor. If Ben still doesnt shoot this year Horford does nothing to change that.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#23 » by 76ciology » Sun Sep 8, 2019 1:31 pm

XtremeDunkz wrote:
76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Ben forced Ben in to the dunker spot by being a non threat anywhere else on the floor. If Ben still doesnt shoot this year Horford does nothing to change that.


Even if Ben is as good as a shooter as Steph Curry, Jimmy would still want to run the team’s offense if not, he will sabotage the offense by passing up open 3s.

The way I see it, if you want Jimmy then you have to trade Ben. I dont think both can co-exist.

Between the two, i prefer Jimmy. But considering the team, I prefer Ben.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#24 » by Chris76 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:30 pm

76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


I agree that Horford fits better with Simmons. Teams will have to adjust with adding a 2nd PF to defend Ben. He abuses most defenders smaller than 6' 8".

Sure, Ben has to develop a consistent midrange shot and finish better. He already has a fade away, but he fades too much. If he goes straight up, his efficiency should improve.

Additionally, Horford as a secondary rim protector and rebounder allows Embiid to cover perimeter shooters. Embiid did it well in the playoffs.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#25 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:27 pm

76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Is there an actual basis for this?

https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

Cannot fathom how you could have Ben a worse player with Butler unless we are going off what sounds best now that Butler isn't here.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#26 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:27 pm

Oh, and Tobias blue himself.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#27 » by mike76 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:49 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Is there an actual basis for this?

https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

Cannot fathom how you could have Ben a worse player with Butler unless we are going off what sounds best now that Butler isn't here.


Agreed.

Ben's stats with Jimmy:
17.2 points per36, 8.2 Assists per36, 60.8% TS%, 20.3 USG%, 2.25 AST/TO

Ben's stats without Jimmy:
19.4 points per30, 7.7 assists per36, 56% TS%, 23.2% USG%, 2.18 AST/TO

Sixers with Ben + Jimmy: +5.8 Net Rtg
Sixers with Ben - Jimmy: -0.3 NetRtg

Tobias' stats with Jimmy:
18.4 pts per36, 2.7 asts per36, 58.8% TS%, 18.7% usg%, 2.47 AST/TO

Tobias's stats without Jimmy:
19.6 Pts per36, 3.7 ast per36, 51.8% TS%, 24.7% USG%, 1.39 AST/TO

Sixers with Tobias + Jimmy: +4.3 NetRtg
Sixers with Tobias - JImmy: -7.4 NetRtg

Butler had a VERY positive impact on both Ben and Tobias and allowed them both to be A LOT more efficient (especially Tobias)
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#28 » by mike76 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:57 pm

mike76 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Is there an actual basis for this?

https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

Cannot fathom how you could have Ben a worse player with Butler unless we are going off what sounds best now that Butler isn't here.


Agreed.

Ben's stats with Jimmy:
17.2 points per36, 8.2 Assists per36, 60.8% TS%, 20.3 USG%, 2.25 AST/TO

Ben's stats without Jimmy:
19.4 points per30, 7.7 assists per36, 56% TS%, 23.2% USG%, 2.18 AST/TO

Sixers with Ben + Jimmy: +5.8 Net Rtg
Sixers with Ben - Jimmy: -0.3 NetRtg

Tobias' stats with Jimmy:
18.4 pts per36, 2.7 asts per36, 58.8% TS%, 18.7% usg%, 2.47 AST/TO

Tobias's stats without Jimmy:
19.6 Pts per36, 3.7 ast per36, 51.8% TS%, 24.7% USG%, 1.39 AST/TO

Sixers with Tobias + Jimmy: +4.3 NetRtg
Sixers with Tobias - JImmy: -7.4 NetRtg

Butler had a VERY positive impact on both Ben and Tobias and allowed them both to be A LOT more efficient (especially Tobias)


Ultimately, having multiple playmakers on the court isn't a bad thing (and can actually prove more beneficial than spacing if the playmakers are actually star caliber players)
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#29 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Sep 9, 2019 5:13 pm

Now I feel bad I went for the arrested development reference instead of checking Tobias stats

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