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So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett

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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#21 » by 76ciology » Sun Sep 8, 2019 7:25 am

It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#22 » by XtremeDunkz » Sun Sep 8, 2019 12:58 pm

76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Ben forced Ben in to the dunker spot by being a non threat anywhere else on the floor. If Ben still doesnt shoot this year Horford does nothing to change that.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#23 » by 76ciology » Sun Sep 8, 2019 1:31 pm

XtremeDunkz wrote:
76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Ben forced Ben in to the dunker spot by being a non threat anywhere else on the floor. If Ben still doesnt shoot this year Horford does nothing to change that.


Even if Ben is as good as a shooter as Steph Curry, Jimmy would still want to run the team’s offense if not, he will sabotage the offense by passing up open 3s.

The way I see it, if you want Jimmy then you have to trade Ben. I dont think both can co-exist.

Between the two, i prefer Jimmy. But considering the team, I prefer Ben.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#24 » by Chris76 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:30 pm

76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


I agree that Horford fits better with Simmons. Teams will have to adjust with adding a 2nd PF to defend Ben. He abuses most defenders smaller than 6' 8".

Sure, Ben has to develop a consistent midrange shot and finish better. He already has a fade away, but he fades too much. If he goes straight up, his efficiency should improve.

Additionally, Horford as a secondary rim protector and rebounder allows Embiid to cover perimeter shooters. Embiid did it well in the playoffs.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#25 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:27 pm

76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Is there an actual basis for this?

https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

Cannot fathom how you could have Ben a worse player with Butler unless we are going off what sounds best now that Butler isn't here.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#26 » by HartfordWhalers » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:27 pm

Oh, and Tobias blue himself.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#27 » by mike76 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:49 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Is there an actual basis for this?

https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

Cannot fathom how you could have Ben a worse player with Butler unless we are going off what sounds best now that Butler isn't here.


Agreed.

Ben's stats with Jimmy:
17.2 points per36, 8.2 Assists per36, 60.8% TS%, 20.3 USG%, 2.25 AST/TO

Ben's stats without Jimmy:
19.4 points per30, 7.7 assists per36, 56% TS%, 23.2% USG%, 2.18 AST/TO

Sixers with Ben + Jimmy: +5.8 Net Rtg
Sixers with Ben - Jimmy: -0.3 NetRtg

Tobias' stats with Jimmy:
18.4 pts per36, 2.7 asts per36, 58.8% TS%, 18.7% usg%, 2.47 AST/TO

Tobias's stats without Jimmy:
19.6 Pts per36, 3.7 ast per36, 51.8% TS%, 24.7% USG%, 1.39 AST/TO

Sixers with Tobias + Jimmy: +4.3 NetRtg
Sixers with Tobias - JImmy: -7.4 NetRtg

Butler had a VERY positive impact on both Ben and Tobias and allowed them both to be A LOT more efficient (especially Tobias)
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#28 » by mike76 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:57 pm

mike76 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
76ciology wrote:It’s not Horford vs Jimmy or Jimmy vs Tobias.

The way to look at it is this..

Horford makes Ben and Tobias better players.
- Horford forces smaller defenders on Ben and Tobi and gives us to have atleast 4 spacers at all times on the floor.

Butler makes Ben and Tobias into worse players.
- Butler reduces Ben into the dunker spot and Tobi into a mere floor spacer.


Is there an actual basis for this?

https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

https://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?PlayerID=1627732&VsPlayerID=202710&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per100Possessions

Cannot fathom how you could have Ben a worse player with Butler unless we are going off what sounds best now that Butler isn't here.


Agreed.

Ben's stats with Jimmy:
17.2 points per36, 8.2 Assists per36, 60.8% TS%, 20.3 USG%, 2.25 AST/TO

Ben's stats without Jimmy:
19.4 points per30, 7.7 assists per36, 56% TS%, 23.2% USG%, 2.18 AST/TO

Sixers with Ben + Jimmy: +5.8 Net Rtg
Sixers with Ben - Jimmy: -0.3 NetRtg

Tobias' stats with Jimmy:
18.4 pts per36, 2.7 asts per36, 58.8% TS%, 18.7% usg%, 2.47 AST/TO

Tobias's stats without Jimmy:
19.6 Pts per36, 3.7 ast per36, 51.8% TS%, 24.7% USG%, 1.39 AST/TO

Sixers with Tobias + Jimmy: +4.3 NetRtg
Sixers with Tobias - JImmy: -7.4 NetRtg

Butler had a VERY positive impact on both Ben and Tobias and allowed them both to be A LOT more efficient (especially Tobias)


Ultimately, having multiple playmakers on the court isn't a bad thing (and can actually prove more beneficial than spacing if the playmakers are actually star caliber players)
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#29 » by HartfordWhalers » Mon Sep 9, 2019 5:13 pm

Now I feel bad I went for the arrested development reference instead of checking Tobias stats
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#30 » by djsunyc » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:59 am

jimmy:

"Obviously, something happened. We're not going to say what it was. We're not going to go into detail. We can't keep living on that. They can't. But I'm happy, man. It brings me joy, being around this group of guys [in Miami]. I don't regret nothing, you feel me?"
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#31 » by Kobblehead » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:02 am

Yeah, this should be a bigger story in Philly. I wonder what happened and who it happened with.

It seems like it was a major issue between one of or all of Ben/Brett/Elton and Jimmy.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#32 » by Bum Adebayo » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:19 am

Kobblehead wrote:Yeah, this should be a bigger story in Philly. I wonder what happened and who it happened with.

It seems like it was a major issue between one of or all of Ben/Brett/Elton and Jimmy.


We decided to build around Bum Simmons, and Butler doesn't fit with him, pretty easy to see IMO. What I don't get though is why did they trade for him in the first place? they had to know this would happen... oh wait it's Brett, of course he had no idea.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#33 » by 76ciology » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:33 pm

djsunyc wrote:jimmy:

"Obviously, something happened. We're not going to say what it was. We're not going to go into detail. We can't keep living on that. They can't. But I'm happy, man. It brings me joy, being around this group of guys [in Miami]. I don't regret nothing, you feel me?"


Sound like Jimmy want to stay but FO have different plans.

I think there’s nothing in between Biid Ben and Butler. But FO decided what’s best for Ben and the team.

On the other hand, I feel Biid feels his sentiment on Jimmy was not respected by the FO. You know how primadona franchise players are nowadays.

And Ben kind of feels sort of guilty.

If you ask me, I thought the FO did the right thing letting Jimmy go. The only way to win with Ben and Biid is with this kind of style and roster.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#34 » by Bum Adebayo » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:56 pm

76ciology wrote:
djsunyc wrote:jimmy:

"Obviously, something happened. We're not going to say what it was. We're not going to go into detail. We can't keep living on that. They can't. But I'm happy, man. It brings me joy, being around this group of guys [in Miami]. I don't regret nothing, you feel me?"


Sound like Jimmy want to stay but FO have different plans.

I think there’s nothing in between Biid Ben and Butler. But FO decided what’s best for Ben and the team.

On the other hand, I feel Biid feels his sentiment on Jimmy was not respected by the FO. You know how primadona franchise players are nowadays.

And Ben kind of feels sort of guilty.

If you ask me, I thought the FO did the right thing letting Jimmy go. The only way to win with Ben and Biid is with this kind of style and roster.


Well, right now it doesn't really look like this way is better than when we had Jimmy, in fact, you could say with Jimmy we were the closest to win a championship. Against Celtics 2018, we got destroyed completely, whereas in 2019 it was really close. I'm not seeing any indication that we are even at 2019 level right now, even if it is still early and this team could "click" somehow.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#35 » by XtremeDunkz » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:11 pm

Anyone who thinks we are better off without Jimmy is blind.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#36 » by eagereyez » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:18 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19

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Re: So who said 

Post#37 » by 76ciology » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:26 pm

eagereyez wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using RealGM mobile app


Believing there is a single player in the league who value championship over money is pretty much like someone who believe WWE is real sport.

Like i said, the players are overpaid so much that the value of how much they’re paid now has so disproportioned the value of a championship.

Even Butler is playing for his paycheck. You really think he cares about the championship? For what? For a one day celebration showering people with champagne?
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#38 » by Kobblehead » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:27 pm

Jimmy Butler isn't wrong about Towns or Simmons.

However, he's also a hypocrite.

How much does HE want a championship?

Despite all the gripes with the guys in Minnesota, he wanted a 5 year max to remain there.

Also, he left a contending team to sign a max with a low-tier playoff team with no chance at competing for a title during the remainder years of his prime.

Jimmy works hard, but he's just as much about the money and just as much about not caring about a championship as the guys he has problems with.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#39 » by eagereyez » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:30 pm

Butler is a hypocrite, but one thing he has going for him is his work ethic. If he claims that someone on the team doesn't care about improving and the Sixers have a star player who hasn't improved in 3 years... well, let's just say where there's smoke there's fire.

Hopefully his comments light a fire under Simmons' ass like they did for KAT and Wiggins.
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Re: So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett 

Post#40 » by BigSleep333 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:12 pm

its pretty obvious his problems were with ben. hes all about that luxury stuff, dating kendall jenner and so on. ben is the problem, jimmy said it, and brett sided with ben. end of story.

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