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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1321 » by kuclas » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:36 am

sixers hoops wrote:
kuclas wrote:Look, you sit tight. Boston didn't trade for Harden either. Houston did the best they could. If sixers would have offer Harris, Maxley, and 3 firsts and 4 future pick swaps (including this year which obviously won't convey since Rockets will have a worst record), I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. That's essentially the Nets package.


They were never taking Tobias’s contract. Caris went to the Pacers so Houston could get Olidipo’s expiring. The weren’t going to take 3.5 more years of Harris at 35 million/per. No chance.


The nets offer of Allen and levert plus 4 picks and 4 draft swaps (essentially 3 draft swap since 2021 draft swap 99% chance will not convey). Any team in contention could have given Houston similar package.

Considering levert and Allen didn’t even end up in Houston.

Houston didn’t end up with any young player. They just restock draft picks. Sixers or other teams could have given them the same draft picks as the nets

That’s why you stay put. Called Houston bluff.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1322 » by sixers hoops » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:27 am

kuclas wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
kuclas wrote:Look, you sit tight. Boston didn't trade for Harden either. Houston did the best they could. If sixers would have offer Harris, Maxley, and 3 firsts and 4 future pick swaps (including this year which obviously won't convey since Rockets will have a worst record), I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. That's essentially the Nets package.


They were never taking Tobias’s contract. Caris went to the Pacers so Houston could get Olidipo’s expiring. The weren’t going to take 3.5 more years of Harris at 35 million/per. No chance.


The nets offer of Allen and levert plus 4 picks and 4 draft swaps (essentially 3 draft swap since 2021 draft swap 99% chance will not convey). Any team in contention could have given Houston similar package.

Considering levert and Allen didn’t even end up in Houston.

Houston didn’t end up with any young player. They just restock draft picks. Sixers or other teams could have given them the same draft picks as the nets

That’s why you stay put. Called Houston bluff.


I was just talking about Tobias. There was no chance they were taking him.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1323 » by spikeslovechild » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:15 pm

At the end of day it boils down to the fact Simmons value around the league has absolutely cratered.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1324 » by kuclas » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:06 pm

spikeslovechild wrote:At the end of day it boils down to the fact Simmons value around the league has absolutely cratered.


Not necessity Simmons value Just look over the final trade destinations of the rockets

Rockets wanted Simmons Plus 4 first round picks plus 4 pick swaps

No team in their right mind would give up that.

Would Denver give up Murray plus same picks? Would Boston give up Brown plus picks?

Would you de value Murray or Brown if that were the case.

The issue is Houston got greedy. They got nothing back besides future picks. They are counting on the nets to implode in 2 years with KD/Harden/Irving all
Having opt outs after 2021-2022 season.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1325 » by Stanford » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:22 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Stanford wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:So does Ben defend Kyrie or Harden when we play the Nets? I think we'll still have to find someone who can play with Durant.


Harden. Ben usually doesn't guard the Kyrie types. He can't.

We lose big in a series against the Nets


Wish our 6'10 franchise player (who's reputation is on the defensive end) could defend the other team's 6'10 franchise player. That would be helpful.


I think he could. Wasn't the question.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1326 » by Stanford » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:24 pm

spikeslovechild wrote:At the end of day it boils down to the fact Simmons value around the league has absolutely cratered.


At the end of the day it boils down to the fact that the Rockets' priorities were: getting off/not acquiring long-term salary, and replenishing draft picks.

That's what it has boiled down to.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1327 » by Wilfried » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:31 pm

Stanford wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:At the end of day it boils down to the fact Simmons value around the league has absolutely cratered.


At the end of the day it boils down to the fact that the Rockets' priorities were: getting off/not acquiring long-term salary, and replenishing draft picks.

That's what it has boiled down to.


Indeed, same reason they shipped LeVert for an ending contract. LeVert is a young guy (some of the posters value him higher than Simmons).

But it also means they don't see Simmons as a franchise player, which he probably isn't
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1328 » by Fischella » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:44 pm

They didn't want just expirings lol, they are gonna get more for Oladipo at the deadline than LeVert would fetch (Oladipo has suitors and there is no free agency really, so teams will give up assets to get him early) and they also managed to get below the tax

That's all calculated

It boiled down to preferring 8 draft assets, plus potentially what Oladipo fetches (and Kurucs), getting outside of the tax, over Simmons, Thybulle, and less draft assets (I don't think Morey offered even close to what BKN gave there)

And that's obviously the right call, which rebuilding team in their right minds wants Simmons on a max over draft assets?
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1329 » by Stanford » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:55 pm

Fischella wrote:They didn't want just expirings lol


You're sort of right, but I think it's more that they didn't want to add long term contracts, in one form on another. They had no interest in Jarrett Allen, who is an expiring. That's because they'd need to give him a big deal in the offseason, or lose him for nothing.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1330 » by youngcrev » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:10 pm

Stanford wrote:
Fischella wrote:They didn't want just expirings lol


You're sort of right, but I think it's more that they didn't want to add long term contracts, in one form on another. They had no interest in Jarrett Allen, who is an expiring. That's because they'd need to give him a big deal in the offseason, or lose him for nothing.


I imagine it was more that they just didn't like the pieces in general. Allen's RFA is certainly a factor, but the bigger factor would seem to be fit given they likely view Wood as their long-term center and have Cousins on the roster. And they probably just weren't very high on LeVert in general (or liked Oladipo better). Seems like they're trying to straddle that line of being competitive (for a playoff spot) while building up their asset base.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1331 » by Fischella » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:00 pm

The Rockets are rebuilding, they only want assets, no need to have guys like LeVert and Allen that don't change life for you on massive deals

Oladipo is going to get dealt for a 1st before the deadline
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1332 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:16 pm

Actually. What the insider in clutchcity said is they are looking to stay competitive because they dont have their own pick.

Rox is not rebuilding. Rox is just doing what the Celts did. Remember when Celts were competing with Evan Turner and Jared Sullinger? This is where they are right now.

There’s no incentive for then to rebuild and tank. They’ll compete now while developing young players with their picks.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1333 » by VDT » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:48 pm

Fischella wrote:They didn't want just expirings lol, they are gonna get more for Oladipo at the deadline than LeVert would fetch (Oladipo has suitors and there is no free agency really, so teams will give up assets to get him early) and they also managed to get below the tax

That's all calculated

It boiled down to preferring 8 draft assets, plus potentially what Oladipo fetches (and Kurucs), getting outside of the tax, over Simmons, Thybulle, and less draft assets (I don't think Morey offered even close to what BKN gave there)

And that's obviously the right call, which rebuilding team in their right minds wants Simmons on a max over draft assets?


The probability that these picks get the Rockets a better player than Simmons is quite low. Also it is not 8 picks, it is 4 picks and 4 swaps which may or may not be used. The Rockets would be essentially tanking while owing their picks to OKC with very light protections and getting the picks of a team that tries to contend. Even if Durant/Hardern retire/walk away the Nets are still playing in NY and still have a competent FO, they are not going to be terrible. The deal doesnt make any sense from a basketball point of view. The owner trying to save money and preventing Morey from getting Harden (unless he grossly overpaid) are probably the reasons for this deal which is terrible for the Rockets.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1334 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:50 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1335 » by spikeslovechild » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:21 pm

76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter


Pretty much.

The potential has always been there but the desire for greatness isn't. I am done with ever hoping he'll ever take a meaningful leap as a NBA player unfortunately it seems the secret is also out for the rest of the league too
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1336 » by sodmoraes » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:27 pm

76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter


It seems so clear but a lot of fans still think Ben can realize his potential if he starts shooting. It´s like that wife that gets beaten weekly by her abusive husband, but still thinks he will change... :lol:
[quote:bba5df4c1f="hornetstime"]jr smith will be out of this league in 2 years, book it.[/quote]
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1337 » by Kobblehead » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:31 pm

76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter

That anonymous GM is correct, but he didn't go far enough.

Ben is the same player now that he was as a senior at Montverde Academy.

So we're not talking 4 year plateau, we're talking 7 year plateau.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1338 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:33 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter

That anonymous GM is correct, but he didn't go far enough.

Ben is the same player now that he was as a senior at Montverde Academy.

So we're not talking 4 year plateau, we're talking 7 year plateau.


I can remember that I first heard this Ben plateauing first from you.

When I read that tweet, i was like.. is Kobble an anonymous GM? Maybe they’re confusing RealGM members with REAL GMs.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1339 » by Stanford » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:39 pm

76ciology wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Read on Twitter

That anonymous GM is correct, but he didn't go far enough.

Ben is the same player now that he was as a senior at Montverde Academy.

So we're not talking 4 year plateau, we're talking 7 year plateau.


I can remember that I first heard this Ben plateauing first from you.

When I read that tweet, i was like.. is Kobble an anonymous GM? Maybe they’re confusing RealGM members with REAL GMs.


They're not far off. The RealGM trade checker is how 90% of teams conduct their transactions, I've heard from a source.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1340 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:43 pm

Stanford wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:That anonymous GM is correct, but he didn't go far enough.

Ben is the same player now that he was as a senior at Montverde Academy.

So we're not talking 4 year plateau, we're talking 7 year plateau.


I can remember that I first heard this Ben plateauing first from you.

When I read that tweet, i was like.. is Kobble an anonymous GM? Maybe they’re confusing RealGM members with REAL GMs.


They're not far off. The RealGM trade checker is how 90% of teams conduct their transactions, I've heard from a source.


:lol:

Pretty sure EB runs his trade checker on NBA2K.
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