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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1041 » by Stanford » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:10 pm

Filthadelphia wrote:
76ciology wrote:
SixthStreet wrote:Which is more likely: Ben shooting moderate volume 3s or significantly ramping up his attempts at the rim? Him shooting more at the rim is much more important I think. He's high efficiency at the rim mainly because he limits himself to easy shots and dunks where he doesn't think he's going to be fouled. To me, he's got to get more aggressive and less selective with his in close shot attempts and if he does I'll be fine if he doesn't shoot 3s. That's the place I'd rather see his scoring volume go up from.


The numbers may say otherwise, but on eyetest.. he isn’t that good at finishing around the rim on halfcourt. That is also the problem. He doesnt have that freakish length of a Giannis or the around the rim touch of maybe LeBron to be an elite scorer around the rim.

Considering everything (style, demeanor and etc), he’s likely to be more well rounded. Like he’s going to attempt some 3s, some mid range and mostly paint shots specially on transition. Which may be a better scenario than just focusing on one aspect too much.

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1042 » by Filthadelphia » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:21 pm

Yeah he's already an above average scorer but there's a well of untapped posibilities.
He gets to the rim at will, his handle body control are excellent not just for his size but period.
Excellent free throw rate, he's obviously gotta hit more of them. All this at 20-21% usage.
He should be around 26%. Tobi and Jo could both better serve this team with a few less touches.

That alone lifts this team's ceiling a tier or 2.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1043 » by elchengue20 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:49 pm

The problem is the only thig he can do is drive or pass the ball, i guess that makes it difficult to get his usage up. His options are limited. Also being a bad FT shooter reduces his will to attack the defense consistenly.

If he gets at least a semi respectable jumper he would be nearly unguardable and his usage would be going up for sure.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1044 » by 76ciology » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:32 am

Filthadelphia wrote:
76ciology wrote:
SixthStreet wrote:Which is more likely: Ben shooting moderate volume 3s or significantly ramping up his attempts at the rim? Him shooting more at the rim is much more important I think. He's high efficiency at the rim mainly because he limits himself to easy shots and dunks where he doesn't think he's going to be fouled. To me, he's got to get more aggressive and less selective with his in close shot attempts and if he does I'll be fine if he doesn't shoot 3s. That's the place I'd rather see his scoring volume go up from.


The numbers may say otherwise, but on eyetest.. he isn’t that good at finishing around the rim on halfcourt. That is also the problem. He doesnt have that freakish length of a Giannis or the around the rim touch of maybe LeBron to be an elite scorer around the rim.

Considering everything (style, demeanor and etc), he’s likely to be more well rounded. Like he’s going to attempt some 3s, some mid range and mostly paint shots specially on transition. Which may be a better scenario than just focusing on one aspect too much.

You post so frequently...yet ur still out to lunch.
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Definitely Ben will be on that list when most guards are shooting from the perimeter while I’d guess most of his 16ppg are either from the paint or from the FT line.

Ben is not bad. And if you read my post, it’s not that im shooting him down.

What im saying is he doesn’t have the tools to be like Giannis and if he wants to be as good as a scorer as Giannis he has to be more well rounded.

Maybe what Ben has shown is good enough for you. I just want more from him on offense, specially with his scoring.

It’s hard to win with a guard who can’t shoot nowadays and I want my team to win.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1045 » by 76ciology » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:34 am

elchengue20 wrote:The problem is the only thig he can do is drive or pass the ball, i guess that makes it difficult to get his usage up. His options are limited. Also being a bad FT shooter reduces his will to attack the defense consistenly.

If he gets at least a semi respectable jumper he would be nearly unguardable and his usage would be going up for sure.


And it’s gonna be a problem with teams playing more zone defense and in some cases with Embiid (i.e Embiid having a bad shooting night while opponents play big like Bucks, Raps or Lakers).
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1046 » by 76ciology » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:00 am

Filthadelphia wrote:Yeah he's already an above average scorer but there's a well of untapped posibilities.
He gets to the rim at will, his handle body control are excellent not just for his size but period.
Excellent free throw rate, he's obviously gotta hit more of them. All this at 20-21% usage.
He should be around 26%. Tobi and Jo could both better serve this team with a few less touches.

That alone lifts this team's ceiling a tier or 2.


No doubt. And thats all we want to see.

And the problem is.. his skillset and talent for scoring is pretty much the same since his “rookie year”.

We both are on the same boat. We want him to improve and not be satisfied for how good he is right now. We want him to make a leap like how guys Jamal Murray, Mitchell or Ingram did last season.

We believe in him
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1047 » by rzzzzz » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:51 pm

76ciology wrote: Mitchell


could you imagine if we traded back in that draft to grab him? Mike Levin was the only guy i remember talking him up, and even he went along with everybody on Fultz. who, dammit, looked great in that SL game.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1048 » by 76ciology » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:50 pm

rzzzzz wrote:
76ciology wrote: Mitchell


could you imagine if we traded back in that draft to grab him? Mike Levin was the only guy i remember talking him up, and even he went along with everybody on Fultz. who, dammit, looked great in that SL game.


Fultz was the right pick. He’s even the type of player that everyone is on top of their checklist RIGHT NOW. Without his bizarre injury, he could have been better than Jimmy or atleast as good as current CP3.

The PnR guy.
The three level scorer.
The multi positional player that can defend multiple positions.

We can’t be be “outcome bias” in our decisions. Nobody saw his “bizarre injury” coming.

Im happy we selected him because we made the right decision at that time.

That said.. mitchell would have been nice as our alpha where we can then slide Biid to a lesser role on offense then let Ben be himself.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1049 » by Negrodamus » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:58 pm

Fultz wasn't in my top five. His shooting range was always a concern for me. I will continue to believe that whatever happened to him was a reaction to being a 65% FT shooter in college until there's a tell all that proves otherwise. I was also cautious about him because he was completely lethargic on defense for a team that was atrocious (however my views on this has changed since Ben and Markelle have been pretty good defensively in the pros; both very uninspired defenders in college).

On top of that, his personality was/is immature (something the general public has no real access to) which should have been a red flag.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1050 » by 76ciology » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:24 am

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1051 » by 76ciology » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:28 am

Negrodamus wrote:Fultz wasn't in my top five. His shooting range was always a concern for me. I will continue to believe that whatever happened to him was a reaction to being a 65% FT shooter in college until there's a tell all that proves otherwise. I was also cautious about him because he was completely lethargic on defense for a team that was atrocious (however my views on this has changed since Ben and Markelle have been pretty good defensively in the pros; both very uninspired defenders in college).

On top of that, his personality was/is immature (something the general public has no real access to) which should have been a red flag.


Anyway, i think 90+% of people had him on top of their draft board. It was between lonzo and him. While most of the guys on our board has Josh Jackson third overall.

I didn’t like Fultz motor, but other than that he checked all the boxes. Most people even find that we play better offense on halfcourt when he runs the offense on eyetest, maybe because he’s just a way better PnR player than Ben. And his PnR game translated well with the Magic.

Still... his shot is broke but there has been progress. I still love watching him play and hope the best for him.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1052 » by SixthStreet » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:35 am

I'd actually see if the Magic would want to trade Fultz. He's matured, we have a new regime. I know it would never happen but I think it would be an interesting fit once again.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1053 » by Negrodamus » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:08 am

76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Fultz wasn't in my top five. His shooting range was always a concern for me. I will continue to believe that whatever happened to him was a reaction to being a 65% FT shooter in college until there's a tell all that proves otherwise. I was also cautious about him because he was completely lethargic on defense for a team that was atrocious (however my views on this has changed since Ben and Markelle have been pretty good defensively in the pros; both very uninspired defenders in college).

On top of that, his personality was/is immature (something the general public has no real access to) which should have been a red flag.


Anyway, i think 90+% of people had him on top of their draft board. It was between lonzo and him. While most of the guys on our board has Josh Jackson third overall.

I didn’t like Fultz motor, but other than that he checked all the boxes. Most people even find that we play better offense on halfcourt when he runs the offense on eyetest, maybe because he’s just a way better PnR player than Ben. And his PnR game translated well with the Magic.

Still... his shot is broke but there has been progress. I still love watching him play and hope the best for him.


I just disagree that he was the right choice, especially if the argument is that 90% of people had him at the top of their list.

Aside from his concerns as a shooter, he was obviously a massive PnR heavy guard, which was the antithesis of our offense at the time, right or wrong. Also, if you watch whole games of his, which I unfortunately did a lot back then, and don't focus on his box score, you'd be surprised that he was pinned as this scoring maestro. In my opinion, he scored as much as he did because of the absence of talent on the team. If anything, he was an elite passer who was wasting potential assists on his atrocious teammates.

If the point at the time of the draft was to find a third star that would score and work within the confines of Bretts offense and Ben at PG, then Fultz, Ball, and Jackson were all obviously bad fits with Ball probably making the most sense of the three.

If it were the Lakers at #1 and they selected Fultz and he doesn't butcher his shot, then I could see the rationale behind the team putting all their marbles in making this guy work, but it never felt realistic for the Sixers to bend to Markelle's offensive will.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1054 » by 76ciology » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:06 am

Negrodamus wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Fultz wasn't in my top five. His shooting range was always a concern for me. I will continue to believe that whatever happened to him was a reaction to being a 65% FT shooter in college until there's a tell all that proves otherwise. I was also cautious about him because he was completely lethargic on defense for a team that was atrocious (however my views on this has changed since Ben and Markelle have been pretty good defensively in the pros; both very uninspired defenders in college).

On top of that, his personality was/is immature (something the general public has no real access to) which should have been a red flag.


Anyway, i think 90+% of people had him on top of their draft board. It was between lonzo and him. While most of the guys on our board has Josh Jackson third overall.

I didn’t like Fultz motor, but other than that he checked all the boxes. Most people even find that we play better offense on halfcourt when he runs the offense on eyetest, maybe because he’s just a way better PnR player than Ben. And his PnR game translated well with the Magic.

Still... his shot is broke but there has been progress. I still love watching him play and hope the best for him.


I just disagree that he was the right choice, especially if the argument is that 90% of people had him at the top of their list.

Aside from his concerns as a shooter, he was obviously a massive PnR heavy guard, which was the antithesis of our offense at the time, right or wrong. Also, if you watch whole games of his, which I unfortunately did a lot back then, and don't focus on his box score, you'd be surprised that he was pinned as this scoring maestro. In my opinion, he scored as much as he did because of the absence of talent on the team. If anything, he was an elite passer who was wasting potential assists on his atrocious teammates.

If the point at the time of the draft was to find a third star that would score and work within the confines of Bretts offense and Ben at PG, then Fultz, Ball, and Jackson were all obviously bad fits with Ball probably making the most sense of the three.

If it were the Lakers at #1 and they selected Fultz and he doesn't butcher his shot, then I could see the rationale behind the team putting all their marbles in making this guy work, but it never felt realistic for the Sixers to bend to Markelle's offensive will.


And I also don’t think Ball would be a good fit given that he needs to be the lead guard with a broken jumper. Tatum also would be a bad fit given his obsessions for kobe and having a heavy iso game.

Outcome bias aside, we need a Fultz type player until now. Jimmy played that role when he was running the PnR against the Raps, how we tried to look for it with Josh Rich and Alec Burks and how you read countless fantasy trades for CP3 right now.

Eventually, what costed his career was not of his “weaknesses” but it was his bizarre injury that nobody has foreseen.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1055 » by Negrodamus » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:42 pm

76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Anyway, i think 90+% of people had him on top of their draft board. It was between lonzo and him. While most of the guys on our board has Josh Jackson third overall.

I didn’t like Fultz motor, but other than that he checked all the boxes. Most people even find that we play better offense on halfcourt when he runs the offense on eyetest, maybe because he’s just a way better PnR player than Ben. And his PnR game translated well with the Magic.

Still... his shot is broke but there has been progress. I still love watching him play and hope the best for him.


I just disagree that he was the right choice, especially if the argument is that 90% of people had him at the top of their list.

Aside from his concerns as a shooter, he was obviously a massive PnR heavy guard, which was the antithesis of our offense at the time, right or wrong. Also, if you watch whole games of his, which I unfortunately did a lot back then, and don't focus on his box score, you'd be surprised that he was pinned as this scoring maestro. In my opinion, he scored as much as he did because of the absence of talent on the team. If anything, he was an elite passer who was wasting potential assists on his atrocious teammates.

If the point at the time of the draft was to find a third star that would score and work within the confines of Bretts offense and Ben at PG, then Fultz, Ball, and Jackson were all obviously bad fits with Ball probably making the most sense of the three.

If it were the Lakers at #1 and they selected Fultz and he doesn't butcher his shot, then I could see the rationale behind the team putting all their marbles in making this guy work, but it never felt realistic for the Sixers to bend to Markelle's offensive will.


And I also don’t think Ball would be a good fit given that he needs to be the lead guard with a broken jumper. Tatum also would be a bad fit given his obsessions for kobe and having a heavy iso game.

Outcome bias aside, we need a Fultz type player until now. Jimmy played that role when he was running the PnR against the Raps, how we tried to look for it with Josh Rich and Alec Burks and how you read countless fantasy trades for CP3 right now.

Eventually, what costed his career was not of his “weaknesses” but it was his bizarre injury that nobody has foreseen.


I mean, those are mischaracterizations of their games. Ball was an 18% USG player (compared to Fultz's 30+) and was clearly not a black hole for the ball, something we've seen translate to his time with the Pelicans and Jrue Holiday. Tatum was one of the most efficient post scorers in the NCAA that year and was largely getting his points from inside the arc than outside (4 three attempts per game). He also had a flawless jumpshot (85% FT) and, by the end of the year, supplanted upperclassmen Luke Kennard and Grayson Allen as the lead scorer on the team. So if there were "obsessions for kobe", they were rooted in reality because he was scoring quite well and very efficiently.

Those are mischaracterizations just like the thought that Fultz was going to be the next James Harden. It just wasn't his game.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1056 » by Filthadelphia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:23 pm

Why do we need a Fultz type? Simmons already does everything he does but better.

Run PnR with Simmons. He has solid metrics as the ballhandler in those sets.
The dumbest thing Brett did was forgo the 2 man game with Ben/Jo.
He tried to get cute and it cost him his job.
I wanna see 4/5's in the league guard the PnR against our stars with the floor properly spaced.
That should be Doc's bread and butter from day 1.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1057 » by rzzzzz » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:35 pm

remember when the Sixers finished off the regular season tearing up the league racing behind Ben, only to get stopped cold by Brad Steven's dare him to shoot wall? Ben will be as successful as whatever halfcourt game he can develop, and how successful his coach can deploy him against a static defensive set.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1058 » by MVP1992 » Sun Nov 1, 2020 10:22 am

I only started following the 76ers because of Ben Simmons.

Once he's traded I'll still stick with the 76ers.
I'm done with this clown.


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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1059 » by Sixersftw » Sun Nov 1, 2020 2:48 pm

something tells me you wouldn't like most of the team if this upsets you. Or most of the NBA honestly.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1060 » by Rastas » Sun Nov 1, 2020 5:02 pm

MVP1992 wrote:I only started following the 76ers because of Ben Simmons.

Once he's traded I'll still stick with the 76ers.
I'm done with this clown.


"Ben Simmons
@BenSimmons25
I exercised my right to #vote #BidenHarris2020
@morethanavote
Make your vote count (his favourite wanker emoji) "


That's OK
Plenty others will be following him wherever he plays

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