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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1241 » by youngcrev » Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:43 pm

Arsenal wrote:Ben Simmons should pattern his offensive game after Zion. He knows how to get his without shooting well or having the ball in his hands all the time.


I don't think he can finish/eat contact like Zion.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1242 » by LloydFree » Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:08 pm

youngcrev wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Ben Simmons should pattern his offensive game after Zion. He knows how to get his without shooting well or having the ball in his hands all the time.


I don't think he can finish/eat contact like Zion.

People focus on the 3pt attempts, but avoiding contact is his biggest problem. If he were to seek out contact on his drives, and get to the FT line, he'd be an effective Offensive player.

Shooting one or two 3's a game doesn't change anything. Teams won't change the way they guard him. They'll ignore him the way they ignore Giannis and Fultz when they shoot. If Simmons wants to have a significant jump on offense in the short run, he has to draw fouls and make FT's.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1243 » by VDT » Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:39 pm

Arsenal wrote:Ben Simmons should pattern his offensive game after Zion. He knows how to get his without shooting well or having the ball in his hands all the time.


Zion is stronger, more explosive, has better body control and better touch at the rim.

With his lack of shooting Simmns needs to play a very physical type of basketball to be effective and i am not sure if he is willing to do that or, even worse, if he has the physical tools that will allow him to play like Giannis, Lebron or now Zion.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1244 » by 76ciology » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:56 pm

LloydFree wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Ben Simmons should pattern his offensive game after Zion. He knows how to get his without shooting well or having the ball in his hands all the time.


I don't think he can finish/eat contact like Zion.

People focus on the 3pt attempts, but avoiding contact is his biggest problem. If he were to seek out contact on his drives, and get to the FT line, he'd be an effective Offensive player.

Shooting one or two 3's a game doesn't change anything. Teams won't change the way they guard him. They'll ignore him the way they ignore Giannis and Fultz when they shoot. If Simmons wants to have a significant jump on offense in the short run, he has to draw fouls and make FT's.


If he seek out contact, there’s a couple of bigs waiting for him at the rim. Sometimes he’ll be successful. Most times those will be have low points per possesion.

I think the key should be Ben being more aggresive and Biid operate more at the FT line area.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1245 » by syntax » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:46 pm

Reading this thread is hard work. It's bad enough watching other teams trash Simmons but Sixers fans too...

Let me cheer you up with some positivity.

Over Embiid and Simmons’s three seasons together, the Sixers are tied with the Nuggets for the NBA’s fifth-best regular-season win percentage (.616).

During the 17-18 season, the Sixers net rating was better than the Bucks. Of the 142 duos that played more than 1,000 minutes that year, no pairing posted a higher net rating than Simmons and Embiid.

Simmons is darn good the way he is now. And considering what he has achieved while dealing with a dysfunctional franchise shows his talent. He is a 2x all-star, all-nba and all-nba defensive player and I hear people comparing him to Shaun Marrion?

Ben doesn't need to make drastic improvements, once the team is working and the system and coaches Philly will be back to to its 17-18 glory.

Improvements in his game will come of course, and will be a bonus. Just be thankful the 6"10' NBA steals leader who can switch 1-5 and lock up anyone is on your team.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1246 » by Black Mage » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:08 am

LloydFree wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Ben Simmons should pattern his offensive game after Zion. He knows how to get his without shooting well or having the ball in his hands all the time.


I don't think he can finish/eat contact like Zion.

People focus on the 3pt attempts, but avoiding contact is his biggest problem. If he were to seek out contact on his drives, and get to the FT line, he'd be an effective Offensive player.

Shooting one or two 3's a game doesn't change anything. Teams won't change the way they guard him. They'll ignore him the way they ignore Giannis and Fultz when they shoot. If Simmons wants to have a significant jump on offense in the short run, he has to draw fouls and make FT's.


So far his free throw % has improved all of 6% over 3 years but still sits at 62%. So in another 4 years (2% per year) he'll finally be at 70%, by then Joel is 31.

But wait you might say, you can't presume he'll improve statically year over year, he could make a jump. Ah, well in that case he jumped 4% year 1 to 2 and then decreased his improvement to just 2%. So much like his shooting distance his improvements at the free throw line are shrinking. :nonono:

Well, maybe he can just get volume. Ah yeah, once against just like his shooting distance, his free throw attempts per game shrunk last year from 5.4 to 5.2. :nonono:

Most players with his supposed gifts and natural talent explode in year 2 or 3. And from what we've seen in 1 game this year he's not exploding on the offensive end this year either.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1247 » by Black Mage » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:12 am

syntax wrote:Reading this thread is hard work. It's bad enough watching other teams trash Simmons but Sixers fans too...

Let me cheer you up with some positivity.

Over Embiid and Simmons’s three seasons together, the Sixers are tied with the Nuggets for the NBA’s fifth-best regular-season win percentage (.616).

During the 17-18 season, the Sixers net rating was better than the Bucks. Of the 142 duos that played more than 1,000 minutes that year, no pairing posted a higher net rating than Simmons and Embiid.

Simmons is darn good the way he is now. And considering what he has achieved while dealing with a dysfunctional franchise shows his talent. He is a 2x all-star, all-nba and all-nba defensive player and I hear people comparing him to Shaun Marrion?

Ben doesn't need to make drastic improvements, once the team is working and the system and coaches Philly will be back to to its 17-18 glory.

Improvements in his game will come of course, and will be a bonus. Just be thankful the 6"10' NBA steals leader who can switch 1-5 and lock up anyone is on your team.


It's not trashing a player when you merely acknowledge his obvious weaknesses and suggest moving him now for a better player, that fits your team's best player perfectly, is available.

I also thought you only max two-way players, not defensive specialists who are either incapable of or have not bothered to improve their offensive game.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1248 » by syntax » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:33 am

Black Mage wrote:
syntax wrote:Reading this thread is hard work. It's bad enough watching other teams trash Simmons but Sixers fans too...

Let me cheer you up with some positivity.

Over Embiid and Simmons’s three seasons together, the Sixers are tied with the Nuggets for the NBA’s fifth-best regular-season win percentage (.616).

During the 17-18 season, the Sixers net rating was better than the Bucks. Of the 142 duos that played more than 1,000 minutes that year, no pairing posted a higher net rating than Simmons and Embiid.

Simmons is darn good the way he is now. And considering what he has achieved while dealing with a dysfunctional franchise shows his talent. He is a 2x all-star, all-nba and all-nba defensive player and I hear people comparing him to Shaun Marrion?

Ben doesn't need to make drastic improvements, once the team is working and the system and coaches Philly will be back to to its 17-18 glory.

Improvements in his game will come of course, and will be a bonus. Just be thankful the 6"10' NBA steals leader who can switch 1-5 and lock up anyone is on your team.


It's not trashing a player when you merely acknowledge his obvious weaknesses and suggest moving him now for a better player, that fits your team's best player perfectly, is available.

I also thought you only max two-way players, not defensive specialists who are either incapable of or have not bothered to improve their offensive game.


How about you wait until you see what this new group of coaches and trainers come up with first to make Simmons more effective offensively. He obviously has the tools he just has to work out with the coaches how to utilise him.

Also there are defensive specialists, then there are freaks like Simmons who are one of a kind combination of talent and size that can't be replaced.

I wouldn't give that up for Harden. Harden has fit so perfectly with the last guys paired with him.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1249 » by youngcrev » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:43 am

Black Mage wrote:
syntax wrote:Reading this thread is hard work. It's bad enough watching other teams trash Simmons but Sixers fans too...

Let me cheer you up with some positivity.

Over Embiid and Simmons’s three seasons together, the Sixers are tied with the Nuggets for the NBA’s fifth-best regular-season win percentage (.616).

During the 17-18 season, the Sixers net rating was better than the Bucks. Of the 142 duos that played more than 1,000 minutes that year, no pairing posted a higher net rating than Simmons and Embiid.

Simmons is darn good the way he is now. And considering what he has achieved while dealing with a dysfunctional franchise shows his talent. He is a 2x all-star, all-nba and all-nba defensive player and I hear people comparing him to Shaun Marrion?

Ben doesn't need to make drastic improvements, once the team is working and the system and coaches Philly will be back to to its 17-18 glory.

Improvements in his game will come of course, and will be a bonus. Just be thankful the 6"10' NBA steals leader who can switch 1-5 and lock up anyone is on your team.


It's not trashing a player when you merely acknowledge his obvious weaknesses and suggest moving him now for a better player, that fits your team's best player perfectly, is available.

I also thought you only max two-way players, not defensive specialists who are either incapable of or have not bothered to improve their offensive game.


:lol:
Come on, man. Referring to Ben Simmons as simply a defensive specialist is not merley acknowledging his weaknesses. Everyone acknowledges what he can't do. Some ignore what he does.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1250 » by syntax » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:07 am

Simmons isn't awful offensively either. His offensive win share is higher than Embiids. He shoots 58% fg, is a great offensive rebounder and passer. Not to mention the offense his steals and defensive rebounding generate.
Despite his weaknesses he is a great player with accolades other teams wish their great players may one day achieve, like all star berths and all-nba teams. Simmons raw talent makes him better by default than completed projects who might score but can't read a defense or make the right pass in a situation and that stuff in unlearnable. Don't underestimate what a great basketball player can do. He's 4 years in and only getting effective coaching now. His "weaknesses" probably aren't holding the team back as much as you think.

Harden has his own weaknesses that are pretty glaring. On both sides of the ball. His contract, his off court behavior, performances in the playoffs. Wasn't one of the many best fits for Harden a 6"8' Center instead of Capela?
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1251 » by M2J » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:04 am

youngcrev wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
syntax wrote:Reading this thread is hard work. It's bad enough watching other teams trash Simmons but Sixers fans too...

Let me cheer you up with some positivity.

Over Embiid and Simmons’s three seasons together, the Sixers are tied with the Nuggets for the NBA’s fifth-best regular-season win percentage (.616).

During the 17-18 season, the Sixers net rating was better than the Bucks. Of the 142 duos that played more than 1,000 minutes that year, no pairing posted a higher net rating than Simmons and Embiid.

Simmons is darn good the way he is now. And considering what he has achieved while dealing with a dysfunctional franchise shows his talent. He is a 2x all-star, all-nba and all-nba defensive player and I hear people comparing him to Shaun Marrion?

Ben doesn't need to make drastic improvements, once the team is working and the system and coaches Philly will be back to to its 17-18 glory.

Improvements in his game will come of course, and will be a bonus. Just be thankful the 6"10' NBA steals leader who can switch 1-5 and lock up anyone is on your team.


It's not trashing a player when you merely acknowledge his obvious weaknesses and suggest moving him now for a better player, that fits your team's best player perfectly, is available.

I also thought you only max two-way players, not defensive specialists who are either incapable of or have not bothered to improve their offensive game.


:lol:
Come on, man. Referring to Ben Simmons as simply a defensive specialist is not merley acknowledging his weaknesses. Everyone acknowledges what he can't do. Some ignore what he does.


For instance him averaging 16 and 8 assists, especially with his efficiency stacks up just nicely to all time great point guards like Jason Kidd or Nash. People just don't like how he gets those stats, especially considering he and Joel aren't the easiest fit and considering how much of an all time great talent he would be if he could shoot.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1252 » by Kobblehead » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:10 am

With zero of the penetrating abilities of either of those players...

And Jason Kidd was a fantastic free throw shooter by the time he was 24. Nash has always been elite at the line.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1253 » by syntax » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:14 am

Nash has never finished in the top 50 in steals, never cracked the top 100 in defensive win shares nor placed in the top 350 of defensive rating.

The Suns have also been the worst defensive team in the league in terms of points allowed during the time Nash has been on the team.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1254 » by Kobblehead » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:16 am

syntax wrote:Nash has never finished in the top 50 in steals, never cracked the top 100 in defensive win shares nor placed in the top 350 of defensive rating.

The Suns have also been the worst defensive team in the league in terms of points allowed during the time Nash has been on the team.

That's what he had Shawn Marion for.

Nash was there to run the offense and score in the halfcourt. That's what your star player is supposed to do.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1255 » by syntax » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:18 am

Even with Marion they were always the worst defensive team in the leageu
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1256 » by syntax » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:20 am

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1257 » by syntax » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:21 am

Doncic, Dame, CP3, Simmo
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1258 » by Kobblehead » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:23 am

syntax wrote:Even with Marion they were always the worst defensive team in the leageu

Still made it to three conference Finals and were one of the most exciting and entertaining teams to watch during the 2000s.

The Sixers offense with Simmons is neither entertaining nor has it achieved any postseason success.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1259 » by syntax » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:24 am

Simmons is in his 5th year
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1260 » by syntax » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:25 am

Nash was out inthe 2nd round in his 5th year putting up 13,6

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