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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1881 » by syntax » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:23 pm

76ciology wrote:You can’t blindly support a player and tell him he is perfect for who he is, like your wife.

You support a player and tell him where he is right now and where he should be so he can be a better player.

If Ben thinks he is perfectly fine as an offensive player, then I think he is lost.

If there isnt anything wrong with him, we wont be on a megathread part 4 page 94 talking about a topic over and over again. :lol:


Must be rough being a 3 time all star in 4 years and all nba while being lost. You're lost in how you value players to contribute.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1882 » by syntax » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:41 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
syntax wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
I don't think this brain tickler is illuminating information that absolves Ben of fault. I like Ben, he's definitely one of the better players in the NBA, but he's definitely not without criticism.

I'd say the bigger reason we're in first in the East is because the East is trash this year and we have a dominating MVP on our team.


Why is he at fault? Why criticisem him for playing winning basketball?



Because I watch the games and see how his limitations kill our offense at times. I know you're a big fan, and that's great, But objectively there are problems with his game that affect our offensive production. That said, I'm not saying Ben is a "problem" and deserves all fault for any shortcomings the team might see.

Additionally, we hold him, Joel, and Tobias to a higher standard than the other guys because they are paid a ton of money and need to perform at that level consistently. I still don't get why anyone is annoyed with criticism of our players. It's weird to me.


It's not criticism that's annoying, it's the constant unwarranted hate on a star player on the best team in the east.

I mean, it was just suggested to trade him for CJ on here. Portland couldn't pack his bags fast enough.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1883 » by Negrodamus » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:50 pm

syntax wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
syntax wrote:
Why is he at fault? Why criticisem him for playing winning basketball?



Because I watch the games and see how his limitations kill our offense at times. I know you're a big fan, and that's great, But objectively there are problems with his game that affect our offensive production. That said, I'm not saying Ben is a "problem" and deserves all fault for any shortcomings the team might see.

Additionally, we hold him, Joel, and Tobias to a higher standard than the other guys because they are paid a ton of money and need to perform at that level consistently. I still don't get why anyone is annoyed with criticism of our players. It's weird to me.


It's not criticism that's annoying, it's the constant unwarranted hate on a star player on the best team in the east.

I mean, it was just suggested to trade him for CJ on here. Portland couldn't pack his bags fast enough.


It’s almost like everyone has differing opinions and you’re allowed to disagree with with the points and move on with your life.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1884 » by syntax » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:01 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
syntax wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:

Because I watch the games and see how his limitations kill our offense at times. I know you're a big fan, and that's great, But objectively there are problems with his game that affect our offensive production. That said, I'm not saying Ben is a "problem" and deserves all fault for any shortcomings the team might see.

Additionally, we hold him, Joel, and Tobias to a higher standard than the other guys because they are paid a ton of money and need to perform at that level consistently. I still don't get why anyone is annoyed with criticism of our players. It's weird to me.


It's not criticism that's annoying, it's the constant unwarranted hate on a star player on the best team in the east.

I mean, it was just suggested to trade him for CJ on here. Portland couldn't pack his bags fast enough.


It’s almost like everyone has differing opinions and you’re allowed to disagree with with the points and move on with your life.


Everyone? Nah coaches and all-nba voters who know the game don't have differing opinions.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1885 » by youngcrev » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:33 pm

syntax wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
syntax wrote:
It's not criticism that's annoying, it's the constant unwarranted hate on a star player on the best team in the east.

I mean, it was just suggested to trade him for CJ on here. Portland couldn't pack his bags fast enough.


It’s almost like everyone has differing opinions and you’re allowed to disagree with with the points and move on with your life.


Everyone? Nah coaches and all-nba voters who know the game don't have differing opinions.


:roll:

Negrodamas had a pretty measured take on Ben from my perspective, and this is your response?

The hater takes are annoying, but so are the "he can do no wrong" ones. Ben's a unique talent with some extremely pronounced and frustrating flaws in his game. Those flaws hurt the team at times. That doesn't make all the things he does do for the team null and void, the way some would make it seem, but let's not act like they have no impact either.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1886 » by Bum Adebayo » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:47 pm

The problem with Ben is that he is capable of much more. When you watched a guy like TJ Mcconnell play, you couldn't really blame him much because there was not much more he could do given his natural ability and talent. With Ben it is a totally different story, the guy could be a much better offensive player than he is, but he underperforms due to various reasons, including pasiveness on offense and poor work ethic.
He also plays much better before the all star game, this is a fact that many ignore. The month before the all star game, his minimum scoring in a game was 14 pts and only in one game; after the all star game, he scored less than 14 pts in 10 games; in January, he scored less than 14 pts in 8 games or so. The pattern is evident, only all star game motivates him like there is no tomorrow, Brett was not the main issue for his struggles (but was the main issue for Embiid and Harris struggles).
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1887 » by Negrodamus » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:42 pm

I don't really why I entertained the argument, the "Location: downunder" should have been a dead giveaway.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1888 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:04 am

Is Ben capable of much more? Yes. Anything can happen.

Nobody saw Julius Randle to average 23 a game on 40% 3pt shooting and 80% FT%.

But as of now, Ben is what he is or what he was. He DESERVES all the CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms.

You have to take into consideration that he may have peaked already given his flat trajectory because putting all your egg expecting that Ben can be so much more is not and won’t be a good decision based on his career trajectory.

You can’t put your favorite player first over the team.

And if he is your favorite player, wouldnt you want him to improve and be better?

Like I said, if he is fine for what he is, then you wont be in some Ben Simmons megathread part 4 page 90 something page talking about on some topic we’ve talked about since day 1.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1889 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:22 am

To change the topic.

Let’s say Ben is not playing with Embiid.

Imagine him in Detroit as their franchise player.

Do you think he’d be more valued as a player?

If yes, then why is there always a big drop on a Ben lead team compared to when Biid is on the court?

Personally, I do think Ben and Biid needs one another and both compliments well except for spacing issues. But Ben’s value is dependent on Biid that his flaws would be exposed without Biid.

Flaws like his reliance on someone to bail him out on offense and his inability to anchor the defense. And both these issues are overshadowed with Embiid’s greatness.

I just think that most of his value has to be credited from playing with Embiid.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1890 » by stormi » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:40 am

76ciology wrote:To change the topic.

Let’s say Ben is not playing with Embiid.

Imagine him in Detroit as their franchise player.

Do you think he’d be more valued as a player?

If yes, then why is there always a big drop on a Ben lead team compared to when Biid is on the court?

Personally, I do think Ben and Biid needs one another and both compliments well except for spacing issues. But Ben’s value is dependent on Biid that his flaws would be exposed without Biid.

Flaws like his reliance on someone to bail him out on offense and his inability to anchor the defense. And both these issues are overshadowed with Embiid’s greatness.

I just think that most of his value has to be credited from playing with Embiid.


This is the most tired and regurgitated argument ever. But, this isn't true.

We just witnessed Embiid + Horford, someone you still complain should have been kept. Tobias, Richardson etc get embarrassingly swept last season in Ben's absence. A team that played the Celtics well last season. They were also below .500 in the bubble and lost a majority of the games heading into the playoffs after Ben went down with that knee.

On the flip side there is regular season and playoff evidence that supports Ben Simmons elevating his game in Embiid's absence, and putting in marquee performances. The nearly 30 point triple double against Lebron James in Cleveland to secure the 3 seed comes to mind. Also some big games against Brooklyn and Miami in the post season, and some Lakers and Clippers games sprinkled in. His averages also historically rise when Embiid doesn't play also to above 20 points per game with heightened assist and rebounding totals.

Not that it changes the player that Ben is, or his value to this specific team - but he is clearly a talent elevator.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1891 » by TeamHigh » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:26 am

stormi wrote:This is the most tired and regurgitated argument ever. But, this isn't true.

We just witnessed Embiid + Horford, someone you still complain should have been kept. Tobias, Richardson etc get embarrassingly swept last season in Ben's absence. A team that played the Celtics well last season. They were also below .500 in the bubble and lost a majority of the games heading into the playoffs after Ben went down with that knee.

No, THIS is the most tired, regurgitated argument ever.

This is what it boils down to: Poorly constructed team with zero playmaking gets swept by well constructed team with a lot of playmaking. The very fact that you're trying to equivocate an indirect comparison between the 3 seed Celtics who went to the ECF with .500 level teams like the Nets and Heat who had no chance of getting there says enough.

It's pretty hard to ignore that, outside of Simmons, we have not fielded a single NBA starting caliber point guard during Embiid's time on the team. Markelle Fultz was supposed to be that guy, but well...

During their entire tenure here, we have accumulated a lot of data with +Embiid/-Simmons lineups along with +Simmons/-Embiid lineups. We have a wealth of statistical evidence to suggest how to evaluate the overall level of our two stars, and you want to distill it down to one particular series because... it's convenient? It suits your argument?

The entire premise of the argument is flawed. No one — and I mean literally no one — who criticizes Ben Simmons is suggesting that the team would be better if you simply deleted Ben Simmons out of existence.

They're saying that Simmons's relative flaws might be holding the offense back (compared to a more conventional all-star level guard replacement), and his relative advantages in playmaking and defense may not be enough to make up for it. The fact that you can have a legitimate discussion about it speaks to the validity of the argument. The corresponding discussion that we'd be better off without Embiid and instead having KAT or AD seems ridiculous, because we all know we probably wouldn't.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1892 » by stormi » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:05 am

TeamHigh wrote:No one — and I mean literally no one — who criticizes Ben Simmons is suggesting that the team would be better if you simply deleted Ben Simmons out of existence.


You would be surprised and wrong.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1893 » by TeamHigh » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:33 pm

stormi wrote:
TeamHigh wrote:No one — and I mean literally no one — who criticizes Ben Simmons is suggesting that the team would be better if you simply deleted Ben Simmons out of existence.


You would be surprised and wrong.

Go ahead, point me to the people making serious arguments that the team would be better if Ben Simmons was replaced with thin air.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1894 » by syntax » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:54 pm

76ciology wrote:Is Ben capable of much more? Yes. Anything can happen.
But as of now, Ben is what he is or what he was. He DESERVES all the CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms.

You have to take into consideration that he may have peaked already given his flat trajectory because putting all your egg expecting that Ben can be so much more is not and won’t be a good decision based on his career trajectory.


A career trajectory of 3x all-star, 3rd team all-nba, 24 years old in your 4th season, with his team 1st in the East is... flat and peaked?

Do you hear yourself?
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1895 » by Hussien Fatal » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:11 pm

Ben has been underperforming and he really needs to play wayyy better for the sixers to win a championship or even make it to the finals. I love Ben’s defense he brings it defensively every game every play, he absolutely ELITE on that end and a complete game changer. But we need way more production from him offensively. He needs to be a reliable scorer. He needs to take advantage of his mismatches more often and just be aggressive. He lacks that mindset and it is so frustrating to watch.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1896 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:20 pm

Biid needs Ben and the other way around.

Biid needs Ben because transition offense plays a big part on offense and Biid is not a transition player. Then defensively, having Ben on defense is a big help for Biid to carry the team’s defense.

Ben needs Biid because Ben isn’t a PG like Chris Paul (doc rivers talked about this) that you can’t just give him the ball and generate offense. Ben needs an elite scorer to bail him out on halfcourt offense, and Biid is the league’s most unstoppable halfcourt scorer right now. Another thing is as good as Ben is on defense, he CAN’T anchor a team’s defense nor can he protect the rim like how Embiid can.

Like I said, im not questioning their fit aside from some obvious spacing issues that Biid address by becoming the second coming of Dirk Nowitzki this season.

But I do think that Ben is not that good when he is without Biid than he is with Biid. And this is why I find Doc to pair them together more rather than stagger them more like how Brett did in previous seasons.

Ben makes Embiid and the team better.

You can call Ben as a talent elevator or what Alfred is to Batman.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1897 » by syntax » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:40 pm

76ciology wrote:To change the topic.

If yes, then why is there always a big drop on a Ben lead team compared to when Biid is on the court?



Philly scores just as many points when Ben is on the court as when Embiid is on the court.

80.3

And as a team they make more 3s, make more FGs, get more assists, more OREB, more REB, more steals and more blocks with Ben on the court than Embiid.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1898 » by syntax » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:20 am

At this point, everybody who pays even the slightest bit of attention to basketball knows that Philadelphia 76ers star Ben Simmons wants to be the Defensive Player of the Year. As the three-time All-Star prides himself on being a guy who can guard one through five and who will welcome the challenge of trying to stop stars every night, Simmons believes he's the clear-cut winner for the award.

"I’m not even questioning it right now," Simmons told GQ Magazine recently in regards to his status as the league's best defender. "I know I am. That’s a fact." That's just one of many examples of Simmons campaigning for himself to be considered the league's best defender this season.

While Simmons has discussed his defensive star power more than anybody this year, the star guard isn't the only one campaigning for himself. Throughout the course of the season, Sixers head coach Doc Rivers has mentioned that he believes his starting point guard deserves that league-wide recognition as the NBA's best defender.

Also, Simmons' superstar teammate Joel Embiid has mentioned he deserves it too. Of course, Simmons' head coach and teammates will come with a bias on the subject, but even the competition recognizes the former first-overall pick's value on defense.
On Friday, the Los Angeles Clippers came to Philly to face the Sixers for the second and final time this year. Before the matchup, Clippers head coach Ty Lue offered up his opinion on the idea that Ben Simmons could win Defensive Player of the Year.

“He wants it. You know, he wants to guard the best player," Lue said hours before tip-off. "Playing him last year, one time he ran all the way across the court to try to get to Kawhi (Leonard) because he wants to guard the best. When you’re a defender -- a top-notch defender -- you want that challenge of guarding the best player every single night. When you watch Philly play, he does it every single night. He wants that challenge. He takes that challenge, and that’s 80-percent of the battle right there, just wanting that challenge every single night.”

Unfortunately, Simmons didn't get the opportunity to match up against Los Angeles' best since Kawhi Leonard missed his fourth-straight game on Friday. However, he did spend a couple of minutes primarily defending Paul George, who scored a game-high of 37 points on Friday night.

Although George's numbers were high, he wasn't all that productive, with Simmons guarding him. According to NBA.com, George scored just six of his 37 points, with Simmons as his primary defender. George also turned the ball over three times during that period. While Simmons didn't get the matchup he wanted on Friday night with Leonard out, he still put on another performance that's sure to boost his chances of winning DPOY once again.

https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/news/clippers-ty-lue-weighs-ben-simmons-defensive-star-power
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1899 » by snoopdogg88 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:46 pm

about to miss 3+ games for an “illness”. Not even traveling to Milwaukee.

Dude is so soft
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#1900 » by shlo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:28 pm

snoopdogg88 wrote:about to miss 3+ games for an “illness”. Not even traveling to Milwaukee.

Dude is so soft


Damn. Bad timing.

I've been as critical of Simmons as anybody.Honestly can't stand him as a player. But I do think he tries, and wants to win, so I'm sure he's sick or he'd be playing.

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