The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[mithrandir17]

Those guys are outproducing Ben despite not being a fraction as talented as him. They're better players than him in those respective years, in my eyes.

Simmons looks strong in January. He should be able to pass Richardson as the season goes on. I don't know if he can pass Harris, though. I don't think it has clicked hard enough for him to get to that level. Harris is pretty good in his own right.

If production for you is only the points being scored then just look at WAS. They are the 5th best scoring team in the league but they are not even close to being a .500 team. That just goes to show you that it isn't all about scoring.

[Kobblehead]

If production for you is only the points being scored then just look at WAS. They are the 5th best scoring team in the league but they are not even close to being a .500 team. That just goes to show you that it isn't all about scoring.

And the Knicks are the 2nd least productive scoring team and are 10-27. There's no conclusions to reach by doing this.

Ben needs to become a 20+ ppg scorer if he wants to be considered a star and reach his full potential. Do you want him to be the next Josh Smith or Andre Iguodala instead?

[mithrandir17]

If production for you is only the points being scored then just look at WAS. They are the 5th best scoring team in the league but they are not even close to being a .500 team. That just goes to show you that it isn't all about scoring.

And the Knicks are the 2nd least productive scoring team and are 10-27. There's no conclusions to reach by doing this.

Of course if your team are the 2nd least scoring team, then you won't win many games, unless you have the defense of the 2004 Pistons. What does that have to do with scoring more points = great players?

Ben needs to become a 20+ ppg scorer if he wants to be considered a star and reach his full potential. Do you want him to be the next Josh Smith or Andre Iguodala instead?

There is no arbitrary number of points for Simmons to be considered as a great player. If he is scoring 18-19PPG with 8-9APG and with stellar defense then he should be considered as a star. Do you know that Steve Nash won back to back MVP award scoring just 15.5PPG and 18.8PPG respectively?

[Kobblehead]

There is no arbitrary number of points for Simmons to be considered as a great player. If he is scoring 18-19PPG with 8-9APG and with stellar defense then he should be considered as a star. Do you know that Steve Nash won back to back MVP award scoring just 15.5PPG and 18.8PPG respectively?

18+ is stomach-able, but there's no reason for a guy of his talent and size to not be able to get 20+. He'd just be leaving meat on the bone if he doesn't. If Giannis can get 30, Ben should be able to get 20.

The least deserving MVPs in NBA history, IMO. Malcolm Brogdon also won RotY averaging 10 ppg. Just because lack of production was rewarded with awards in the past doesn't mean players should strive to underachieve and not score.

[mithrandir17]

There is no arbitrary number of points for Simmons to be considered as a great player. If he is scoring 18-19PPG with 8-9APG and with stellar defense then he should be considered as a star. Do you know that Steve Nash won back to back MVP award scoring just 15.5PPG and 18.8PPG respectively?

18+ is stomach-able, but there's no reason for a guy of his talent and size to not be able to get 20+. He'd just be leaving meat on the bone if he doesn't. If Giannis can get 30, Ben should be able to get 20.

The least deserving MVPs in NBA history, IMO. Malcolm Brogdon also won RotY averaging 10 ppg. Just because lack of production was rewarded with awards in the past doesn't mean players should strive to underachieve and not score.

So you are now comparing winning ROY to MVP? And not just an MVP but back to back MVPs? Even if Nash did not win the MVP, does he not qualify as a great player in your criteria of 20PPG scorers only?

[Kobblehead]

So you are now comparing winning ROY to MVP? And not just an MVP but back to back MVPs? Even if Nash did not win the MVP, does he not qualify as a great player in your criteria of 20PPG scorers only?

My Steve Nash takes are a discussion for another time/thread.

As long as Ben continues his January scoring aggression, the critics will be satiated.

[PhillyFan11]

So you are now comparing winning ROY to MVP? And not just an MVP but back to back MVPs? Even if Nash did not win the MVP, does he not qualify as a great player in your criteria of 20PPG scorers only?

My Steve Nash takes are a discussion for another time/thread.

As long as Ben continues his January scoring aggression, the critics will be satiated.

Sorry, hard to read your posts over the loud back up beeper going on.

The discussion is perfectly valid, you just couldnt figure out an intelligent response to your nonsensical standards for scoring being the end all be all.

[nurseryc]

Those guys are outproducing Ben despite not being a fraction as talented as him. They're better players than him in those respective years, in my eyes.

Simmons looks strong in January. He should be able to pass Richardson as the season goes on. I don't know if he can pass Harris, though. I don't think it has clicked hard enough for him to get to that level. Harris is pretty good in his own right.

Completely disagree. Simmons doesn’t need to pass Harris, he is already playing better than him, or a level above if you want to call it. Your emphasis is way too focused on points. Unfortunately some people fail to recognise the other crucial aspects of the game. There’s only 2 other people in the nba with averages across the board like Simmons. Check it out.

[Negrodamus]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-some-warriors-staffers-say-draymond-green-ben-simmons-dont-fit

Kind of a weird story for a reputable site to run. I don't know if there's smoke where there's fire, but I'm not completely turned off to a Russell/Simmons trade.

[Kobblehead]

Your emphasis is way too focused on points. Unfortunately some people fail to recognise the other crucial aspects of the game.

And you're not focusing enough on points. You're getting bogged down by extraneous traits and not focusing on the most crucial trait, which is scoring. Like I asked earlier, are you okay with Simmons being another Andre Iguodala or Josh Smith or do you want him to be more?

[youngcrev]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-some-warriors-staffers-say-draymond-green-ben-simmons-dont-fit

Kind of a weird story for a reputable site to run. I don't know if there's smoke where there's fire, but I'm not completely turned off to a Russell/Simmons trade.

I am. Russell really only intrigues me as a guy to put alongside Ben and Jo.

Like, if I can get in a deal for Horford and Mattise or Richardson (which seems completely possible), let's talk.

[ProcessDoctor]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-some-warriors-staffers-say-draymond-green-ben-simmons-dont-fit

Kind of a weird story for a reputable site to run. I don't know if there's smoke where there's fire, but I'm not completely turned off to a Russell/Simmons trade.

If it’s DLO plus a top-3 pick don’t you almost have to do it?

[Kobblehead]

I wonder how much they're talking on-court and how much they're talking off-court when making the Draymond/Ben not fitting comment. We know Draymond is brash and confrontational.

[Negrodamus]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-some-warriors-staffers-say-draymond-green-ben-simmons-dont-fit

Kind of a weird story for a reputable site to run. I don't know if there's smoke where there's fire, but I'm not completely turned off to a Russell/Simmons trade.

If it’s DLO plus a top-3 pick don’t you almost have to do it?

I hope every GM values Ben like this.

[VDT]

I have said that i dont see the Embiid-Simmons pairing lasting long, but this might be their last year together.

Brown has asked Simmons to take a 3 per game and Simmons has not only disrespected him but also Embiid, who has sacrificed his game to help the team. It is hard to see how this goes on past this summer.

[stormi]

Thread for the best player on this team

[PhillyFan11]

I have said that i dont see the Embiid-Simmons pairing lasting long, but this might be their last year together.

Brown has asked Simmons to take a 3 per game and Simmons has not only disrespected him but also Embiid, who has sacrificed his game to help the team. It is hard to see how this goes on past this summer.

Not even defending Ben...he 1000% needs to be able to shoot some kind of jumper, even if it isn’t a 3. And I’m not against trading him if it makes the team better.
But with that said, I don’t know if I’m ready to bemoan Embiid a martyr that we must save either. Between the playoffs and so far this season there have to be serious questions about how exactly how many superstar minutes we are really getting out of Embiid a season. Being healthy and getting max effort seem to be aligning less and less. I’m sure I’m in the vast minority, but I would trade Embiid if the right deal came along as well...however unlikely that is.

[rzzzzz]

I have said that i dont see the Embiid-Simmons pairing lasting long, but this might be their last year together.

harder to find "generational" talent than a competent coach. let's not make the Jimmy mistake twice.

[Mik317]

Thread for the best player on this team

This isn't the Shayok thread

[VDT]

I have said that i dont see the Embiid-Simmons pairing lasting long, but this might be their last year together.

Brown has asked Simmons to take a 3 per game and Simmons has not only disrespected him but also Embiid, who has sacrificed his game to help the team. It is hard to see how this goes on past this summer.

Not even defending Ben...he 1000% needs to be able to shoot some kind of jumper, even if it isn’t a 3. And I’m not against trading him if it makes the team better.
But with that said, I don’t know if I’m ready to bemoan Embiid a martyr that we must save either. Between the playoffs and so far this season there have to be serious questions about how exactly how many superstar minutes we are really getting out of Embiid a season. Being healthy and getting max effort seem to be aligning less and less. I’m sure I’m in the vast minority, but I would trade Embiid if the right deal came along as well...however unlikely that is.

Yea there are questions with Embiid.

I am not even blaming Simmons here though, in his shoes i would also push back if people wanted to judge me based on the weakest part of my game. Everyone has put the onus on him to provide spacing and it is understandable that he doesnt like it. The same way any player who sees himself as star wouldn't like it if people demanded that he becomes good at his worst skill in order to help the team and everything is judged solely on this. In the end if the team doesnt like his skill set, which was there when drafted, it only makes sense to trade him or not extend him.

Drafting and extending him while they know his strengths and weaknesses and then demanding that he changes completely his game doesnt make much sense and i am not sure Simmons is willing to accommodate them until he becomes good at shooting. Because in that case he would put the blame for a potential failure on him for not being a good shooter and not on the team for the ill fitting roster.