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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#541 » by ProcessDoctor » Fri Jun 5, 2020 1:31 am

76ciology wrote:How confident are you guys with Ben defending Giannis, Siakam or AD? Why havent weve seen enough of this?


Definitely comfortable with him guarding Siakam + AD.

Giannis is a different animal, and in Ben's defense (no pun intended), there's not a defender in the league who can stop him one-on-one.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#542 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 5, 2020 5:19 am

Personally, i think the people who have watched Ben play defense (coaching staff and FO) are not confident with Ben’s defense against guys like AD, Siakam or Giannis.

Personally, I think Ben can stay in front of their guys but they may have an easy time scoring against them at the post.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#543 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 5, 2020 5:53 am

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#544 » by Sixerscan » Sun Jun 7, 2020 3:37 pm

76ciology wrote:Personally, i think the people who have watched Ben play defense (coaching staff and FO) are not confident with Ben’s defense against guys like AD, Siakam or Giannis.

Personally, I think Ben can stay in front of their guys but they may have an easy time scoring against them at the post.


His lack of length makes AD and Giannis a pretty tough matchup for him. There's also more of a rim protecting component to covering those guys, and he hasn't really picked that up. And he's just so good on the perimeter I'm not sure why you would want to use him like that especially with Embiid and Horford on the team.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#545 » by 76ciology » Sun Jun 7, 2020 3:56 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:Personally, i think the people who have watched Ben play defense (coaching staff and FO) are not confident with Ben’s defense against guys like AD, Siakam or Giannis.

Personally, I think Ben can stay in front of their guys but they may have an easy time scoring against them at the post.


His lack of length makes AD and Giannis a pretty tough matchup for him. There's also more of a rim protecting component to covering those guys, and he hasn't really picked that up. And he's just so good on the perimeter I'm not sure why you would want to use him like that especially with Embiid and Horford on the team.


And i also believe he’s one of the league leaders in blocking 3s, if im not mistaken. Personally I like him defending guards
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#546 » by Kobblehead » Mon Jun 8, 2020 1:27 am

When the actual game is on the line, Giannis stands in the dunker's spot and does nothing (lol fake superstar).

But for the majority of the game, he's bringing the ball up and setting up at the top of the key like a G. Clearly Ben Simmons is suited to defend him on those possessions. And the moment he turns his back and tries to bully Ben, that's when you swarm him and get the ball out of his hands. There's no reason Ben Simmons shouldn't be able to defend Giannis.

A pure post player like Anthony Davis is a different story.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#547 » by 76ciology » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:44 pm

Kobblehead wrote:When the actual game is on the line, Giannis stands in the dunker's spot and does nothing (lol fake superstar).

But for the majority of the game, he's bringing the ball up and setting up at the top of the key like a G. Clearly Ben Simmons is suited to defend him on those possessions. And the moment he turns his back and tries to bully Ben, that's when you swarm him and get the ball out of his hands. There's no reason Ben Simmons shouldn't be able to defend Giannis.

A pure post player like Anthony Davis is a different story.




Look at the scoreboard and time. Not saying this will happen all the time
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#548 » by Kobblehead » Tue Jun 9, 2020 3:18 pm

Yeah, he's not skilled enough to create off the dribble in the halfcourt when the game matters, so he goes to the baseline like a center.

Again, the moment he catches it in the post, that's when you send the double team (roughly the 5 second mark). That's what teams do to every post player in the modern NBA (same thing that Stevens and Nurse do to Embiid).

When Giannis is facing up on the perimeter, Ben Simmons is the best player in the entire NBA to guard him because of his elite perimeter defense at his size.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#549 » by 76ciology » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:55 am

Kobblehead wrote:Yeah, he's not skilled enough to create off the dribble in the halfcourt when the game matters, so he goes to the baseline like a center.

Again, the moment he catches it in the post, that's when you send the double team (roughly the 5 second mark). That's what teams do to every post player in the modern NBA (same thing that Stevens and Nurse do to Embiid).

When Giannis is facing up on the perimeter, Ben Simmons is the best player in the entire NBA to guard him because of his elite perimeter defense at his size.


Swarm defense at the post only works if the primary guy can have the strength to not get backed down.

In example, Baynes as primary and having Tatum or Rozier at the weakside for deflections.

To make the example more clear. Let’s say you have John Stockton defending Embiid at the post, even if you have Kawhi at the weakside for deflection, Biid will have too good of a position for that weakside help to make a difference.

Also look at Embiid at that play, Bucks will do whatever it takes to pull Embiid out at the perimeter. Bucks is also one of the top 3pt shooting teams (i think they are top1), so swarming is not that easy.

I could be wrong, this is more theoretical and based from what I saw in the NBA and international basketball
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#550 » by youngcrev » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:09 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:Personally, i think the people who have watched Ben play defense (coaching staff and FO) are not confident with Ben’s defense against guys like AD, Siakam or Giannis.

Personally, I think Ben can stay in front of their guys but they may have an easy time scoring against them at the post.


His lack of length makes AD and Giannis a pretty tough matchup for him. There's also more of a rim protecting component to covering those guys, and he hasn't really picked that up. And he's just so good on the perimeter I'm not sure why you would want to use him like that especially with Embiid and Horford on the team.


Yeah. I'd be fine with him matching up with any of those guys (probably our best option against Pascal now that he's shooting better). AD and Giannis can bully him a bit under the basket, but if they want to bog down their offenses with heavy post play against a good defender, have at it. I think the biggest issue with putting him on Giannis has more to do with them being able to drag Embiid out of the paint and losing your elite rim protector. It's not like Jo does all that well staying in front of him, he basically just dares him to shoot the ball while challenging everything at the rim.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#551 » by Sixerscan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:13 pm

youngcrev wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:Personally, i think the people who have watched Ben play defense (coaching staff and FO) are not confident with Ben’s defense against guys like AD, Siakam or Giannis.

Personally, I think Ben can stay in front of their guys but they may have an easy time scoring against them at the post.


His lack of length makes AD and Giannis a pretty tough matchup for him. There's also more of a rim protecting component to covering those guys, and he hasn't really picked that up. And he's just so good on the perimeter I'm not sure why you would want to use him like that especially with Embiid and Horford on the team.


Yeah. I'd be fine with him matching up with any of those guys (probably our best option against Pascal now that he's shooting better). AD and Giannis can bully him a bit under the basket, but if they want to bog down their offenses with heavy post play against a good defender, have at it. I think the biggest issue with putting him on Giannis has more to do with them being able to drag Embiid out of the paint and losing your elite rim protector. It's not like Jo does all that well staying in front of him, he basically just dares him to shoot the ball while challenging everything at the rim.


I think I'd still rather have Ben on a guard given the other personnel on both teams, like even assuming the Sixers start/end with a guard instead of Horford who are Embiid and Harris covering? I guess if they go super big again like they did at the end of the series last year it makes sense, but I don't know what that looks like without Kawhi, are they playing OG at 2 guard alongside Gasol Ibaka Siakam with Lowry or FVV? I can't imagine they bench either of those guards in major moments, again unless it's like last year where the Sixers just smother VanVleet again.

With Giannis, along with what you said I think the other reason you put Embiid or Horford on him is that they're bigger and more likely (not always) to slow him down when he drives by themselves so you don't have to double down. The Bucks' entire offense when Giannis at the top is predicated on him overwhelming the guy covering him to the point that teams have to help which opens up their 3 point game.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#552 » by youngcrev » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:02 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
His lack of length makes AD and Giannis a pretty tough matchup for him. There's also more of a rim protecting component to covering those guys, and he hasn't really picked that up. And he's just so good on the perimeter I'm not sure why you would want to use him like that especially with Embiid and Horford on the team.


Yeah. I'd be fine with him matching up with any of those guys (probably our best option against Pascal now that he's shooting better). AD and Giannis can bully him a bit under the basket, but if they want to bog down their offenses with heavy post play against a good defender, have at it. I think the biggest issue with putting him on Giannis has more to do with them being able to drag Embiid out of the paint and losing your elite rim protector. It's not like Jo does all that well staying in front of him, he basically just dares him to shoot the ball while challenging everything at the rim.


I think I'd still rather have Ben on a guard given the other personnel on both teams, like even assuming the Sixers start/end with a guard instead of Horford who are Embiid and Harris covering? I guess if they go super big again like they did at the end of the series last year it makes sense, but I don't know what that looks like without Kawhi, are they playing OG at 2 guard alongside Gasol Ibaka Siakam with Lowry or FVV? I can't imagine they bench either of those guards in major moments, again unless it's like last year where the Sixers just smother VanVleet again.

With Giannis, along with what you said I think the other reason you put Embiid or Horford on him is that they're bigger and more likely (not always) to slow him down when he drives by themselves so you don't have to double down. The Bucks' entire offense when Giannis at the top is predicated on him overwhelming the guy covering him to the point that teams have to help which opens up their 3 point game.


I think it kinda depends on what's working for the Raptors. I'd be inclined to start out with Ben on Pascal since I view him as their biggest offensive threat. JRich on Lowry, Tobias on OG, Jo on Gasol/Ibaka, Shake on Powell/FVV. If their backcourt starts eating you up you could shift Ben onto Lowry, Jo onto Pascal, and Tobias on Gasol. They've got options defensively. I worry a more about trying to score on that team than trying to stop them.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#553 » by 76ciology » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:20 pm

youngcrev wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Yeah. I'd be fine with him matching up with any of those guys (probably our best option against Pascal now that he's shooting better). AD and Giannis can bully him a bit under the basket, but if they want to bog down their offenses with heavy post play against a good defender, have at it. I think the biggest issue with putting him on Giannis has more to do with them being able to drag Embiid out of the paint and losing your elite rim protector. It's not like Jo does all that well staying in front of him, he basically just dares him to shoot the ball while challenging everything at the rim.


I think I'd still rather have Ben on a guard given the other personnel on both teams, like even assuming the Sixers start/end with a guard instead of Horford who are Embiid and Harris covering? I guess if they go super big again like they did at the end of the series last year it makes sense, but I don't know what that looks like without Kawhi, are they playing OG at 2 guard alongside Gasol Ibaka Siakam with Lowry or FVV? I can't imagine they bench either of those guards in major moments, again unless it's like last year where the Sixers just smother VanVleet again.

With Giannis, along with what you said I think the other reason you put Embiid or Horford on him is that they're bigger and more likely (not always) to slow him down when he drives by themselves so you don't have to double down. The Bucks' entire offense when Giannis at the top is predicated on him overwhelming the guy covering him to the point that teams have to help which opens up their 3 point game.


I think it kinda depends on what's working for the Raptors. I'd be inclined to start out with Ben on Pascal since I view him as their biggest offensive threat. JRich on Lowry, Tobias on OG, Jo on Gasol/Ibaka, Shake on Powell/FVV. If their backcourt starts eating you up you could shift Ben onto Lowry, Jo onto Pascal, and Tobias on Gasol. They've got options defensively. I worry a more about trying to score on that team than trying to stop them.


And it’s not like that 5 man unit will help you to score either.

Gasol Can slow down Biid (Biid recently scored 0 against hin).
Siakam can easily slow down Ben.
OG is likely to slow down Tobias.

You don’t have a mismatch out there while they always have that Siakam on Ben card that they can use. Then they also have Lowry or FVV to create plays.

Don’t worry, the FO that has first hand experience than most fans and has spent more hours simulating this scenario has thought of the way to counter that.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#554 » by Sixerscan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:37 pm

youngcrev wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Yeah. I'd be fine with him matching up with any of those guys (probably our best option against Pascal now that he's shooting better). AD and Giannis can bully him a bit under the basket, but if they want to bog down their offenses with heavy post play against a good defender, have at it. I think the biggest issue with putting him on Giannis has more to do with them being able to drag Embiid out of the paint and losing your elite rim protector. It's not like Jo does all that well staying in front of him, he basically just dares him to shoot the ball while challenging everything at the rim.


I think I'd still rather have Ben on a guard given the other personnel on both teams, like even assuming the Sixers start/end with a guard instead of Horford who are Embiid and Harris covering? I guess if they go super big again like they did at the end of the series last year it makes sense, but I don't know what that looks like without Kawhi, are they playing OG at 2 guard alongside Gasol Ibaka Siakam with Lowry or FVV? I can't imagine they bench either of those guards in major moments, again unless it's like last year where the Sixers just smother VanVleet again.

With Giannis, along with what you said I think the other reason you put Embiid or Horford on him is that they're bigger and more likely (not always) to slow him down when he drives by themselves so you don't have to double down. The Bucks' entire offense when Giannis at the top is predicated on him overwhelming the guy covering him to the point that teams have to help which opens up their 3 point game.


I think it kinda depends on what's working for the Raptors. I'd be inclined to start out with Ben on Pascal since I view him as their biggest offensive threat. JRich on Lowry, Tobias on OG, Jo on Gasol/Ibaka, Shake on Powell/FVV. If their backcourt starts eating you up you could shift Ben onto Lowry, Jo onto Pascal, and Tobias on Gasol. They've got options defensively. I worry a more about trying to score on that team than trying to stop them.

Yeah I guess I didn't think about how you can put Tobias on OG now that Kawhi isn't around. Agreed on offense being the bigger issue.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#555 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:02 am

Siri, show me the player with the best hype machine.

Spoiler:
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#556 » by SixthStreet » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:05 am

Against the Bucks wouldn't Simmons best be deployed on Middleton? Last year you had Butler who really had to stick primarily on Middleton but now Richardson is capable of handling Bledsoe so you have the luxury of having Simmons lock up Middleton and have Embiid and Horford exchange Giannis and Lopez for fouls and fatigue. Hide Harris on the 5th guy whomever it is.

If Simmons can slow down Middleton's off the dribble game (and I believe he can) I think it can really clog things up for their offense in a series.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#557 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:44 am

SixthStreet wrote:Against the Bucks wouldn't Simmons best be deployed on Middleton? Last year you had Butler who really had to stick primarily on Middleton but now Richardson is capable of handling Bledsoe so you have the luxury of having Simmons lock up Middleton and have Embiid and Horford exchange Giannis and Lopez for fouls and fatigue. Hide Harris on the 5th guy whomever it is.

If Simmons can slow down Middleton's off the dribble game (and I believe he can) I think it can really clog things up for their offense in a series.


Been that way.

But on defense, Giannis is on Ben. While Bro lo is on Biid. Then both Giannis and Brolo sags off Biid and Ben, this is problematic for us so far. Because this kills any kind of post-up opportunities (you can’t even have Al post up Wes Matthews).

The best way to counter it is both of them setting screens for Tobi or JRich so that it would force their men to stay close to them, or simply Biid to shoot perimeter shots.

I think in the end of this puzzle, you’ll just end up with the conclusion that Sixers’ championship hopes THIS SEASON hangs with Embiid’s perimeter shooting.

Then it becomes a rabbit hole discussion.

Biid fans would say Ben should shoot. Then someone will say Horford is the problem. Then someone will say it wouldnt be a problem if someone (star playmaker) would set them up for easy buckets.

I’d rather be realistic with a more short term outlook and say it’s Biid who has to shoot and make those perimeter shot this season while both Biid and Ben have to become better than league average shooters in the future.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#558 » by mike76 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:56 pm

https://stats.nba.com/player/1627732/head-to-head/?CF=MATCHUP*E*Siakam

Ben has played very well against Siakam one-on-one this season which isn't surprising

Siakam shooting 5-19 from the field, 11 points on 19 shots, no FTAs against Simmons

But Siakam is more of a face-up game type power forward. He doesn't really play with his back to the basket which favors Ben because he is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.

Guys like Giannis (242 pounds + unicornish strength) and AD (253 pounds) are a different animal compared to Siakam (230 pounds). Like you can't put Ben (230 pounds) as a primary matchup for Giannis and AD, you need an actual center defending them.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#559 » by elchengue20 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:55 pm

76ciology wrote:Siri, show me the player with the best hype machine.

Spoiler:


I'll be more impressed if i saw him hitting free throws, let alone 3's.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#560 » by 76ciology » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:53 am

elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:Siri, show me the player with the best hype machine.

Spoiler:


I'll be more impressed if i saw him hitting free throws, let alone 3's.


Not saying I don’t appreciate it.

But sure he will post that then again shoot it like how he is doing right now.
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