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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#821 » by VDT » Sat Sep 5, 2020 8:10 pm

stormi wrote:
VDT wrote:
stormi wrote:Neither Siakam nor Giannis have the vision, passing or ball handling finesse than Ben has. He's not great in the halfcourt like Lebron isn't, but he's not an anchor like Giannis.

Ben at this stage of his career is like a proto Lebron. He has all of the same attributes, he's just not as honed in mentally and still doesn't choose to shoot. Sometimes he does, he used to give us those turnaround jumpers late shotclock and he usually made them.

Time for life after Brett Brown. I feel like he knows he can be more.

In terms of athleticism, basketball IQ, shooting and touch around the basket he is considerably worse and he hasnt improved much.


Disagree. He's equal or superior on all fronts besides shooting, he's also not as savvy in terms of using his body to create contact and draw fouls. In terms of raw athleticism, speed in the halfcourt, passing, finishing around the rim, defensively, steal and block rate. He's all there. And even Lebron at this point can't get into shooting rhythm without taking his slow one two gather step.


You are being a stan now. Simmons is athletic, Lebron is one of the most athletic basketball players ever. He is much better at getting to the rim and scoring there than Simmons. He led a team to the finals at 22, Simmons is 24 and he hasnt even shown he can be a star in the playoffs. There is really a chasm in their offensive productions.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#822 » by stormi » Sat Sep 5, 2020 8:38 pm

You switched the discussion see cause at first you were naming tangible and intangible individual traits, and now you're doing an entire overlapping comparison. Nobody is saying Ben is Lebron, or even close. Or Ben in his current state is as polished and determined to be the best like Lebron was. The gap in their shooting profiles is a canyon. Being able to shoot c&s 3's, and being able to make shots off the dribble or contested jumpers against defenders with length are completely different things. Ben is so far away from him in that department that it drops him at least a full tier or two away. The similarities reside in their physical profiles and their vision, and ballhandling. In terms of being able to control the ball at that size and speed in the open court is rare. I've never seen Ben get pressured while holding the ball, never seen him get trapped into throwing turnovers and such. That composure and elegance with the basketball in his hand at that size has drawn the comparisons. Anyways.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#823 » by stormi » Sun Sep 6, 2020 1:21 am

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#824 » by SixthStreet » Sun Sep 6, 2020 3:16 am

Does anyone think Ben can ever develop a 12-15 ft pull up jumper? A lot of the reason Simmons can't create his own half court offense is that defenses know he won't take a shot outside a layup type attempt and that they can funnel him and bring help knowing there's only one place they have to defend a shot attempt.

I feel at some point Ben is going to add skill and make a quantum leap in his ability to score. If that happens and we still have both Simmons and Embiid, it's not going to matter that we pissed away all these assets. They'll be a real contender.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#825 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sun Sep 6, 2020 3:20 am

SixthStreet wrote:Does anyone think Ben can ever develop a 12-15 ft pull up jumper? A lot of the reason Simmons can't create his own half court offense is that defenses know he won't take a shot outside a layup type attempt and that they can funnel him and bring help knowing there's only one place they have to defend a shot attempt.

I feel at some point Ben is going to add skill and make a quantum leap in his ability to score. If that happens and we still have both Simmons and Embiid, it's not going to matter that we pissed away all these assets. They'll be a real contender.


This is how I feel too. Internal growth on this roster. Ben and Jo taking another step further towards stardom.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#826 » by DT RAW » Sun Sep 6, 2020 4:06 am

those efficiency stats are horrifically stupid to pull out when all he does is shoot layups and dunks and the others are taking shots from every where and as go to guys while ben looks like a deer in the head lights with the ball late looking for anyone to give the ball to besides himself
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#827 » by DT RAW » Sun Sep 6, 2020 4:07 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
SixthStreet wrote:Does anyone think Ben can ever develop a 12-15 ft pull up jumper? A lot of the reason Simmons can't create his own half court offense is that defenses know he won't take a shot outside a layup type attempt and that they can funnel him and bring help knowing there's only one place they have to defend a shot attempt.

I feel at some point Ben is going to add skill and make a quantum leap in his ability to score. If that happens and we still have both Simmons and Embiid, it's not going to matter that we pissed away all these assets. They'll be a real contender.


This is how I feel too. Internal growth on this roster. Ben and Jo taking another step further towards stardom.


yep, year 5 will be different I'm sure of it!
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#828 » by stormi » Sun Sep 6, 2020 4:41 am

^ Claimed Ben Simmons isn't a great finisher around the rim. He's a savant with either hand.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#829 » by DT RAW » Sun Sep 6, 2020 12:18 pm

stormi wrote:^ Claimed Ben Simmons isn't a great finisher around the rim. He's a savant with either hand.


No, hes not.

His finishing when driving in amd contested is HORRENDOUS. Your little stats are tracking all his dunks.

You can keep posting all the BS no context stats you want, doesnt change reality

This is why stats suck sometimes. If someone never saw NBA basketball and looked at bens stats they would think offesnively he was probably amazing, then when they saw him on the court they would be mortified athow this guy has less offensive skill than some high school kids
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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#830 » by kio80 » Sun Sep 6, 2020 12:29 pm

DT RAW wrote:
stormi wrote:^ Claimed Ben Simmons isn't a great finisher around the rim. He's a savant with either hand.


No, hes not.

His finishing when driving in amd contested is HORRENDOUS. Your little stats are tracking all his dunks.

You can keep posting all the BS no context stats you want, doesnt change reality

This is why stats suck sometimes. If someone never saw NBA basketball and looked at bens stats they would think offesnively he was probably amazing, then when they saw him on the court they would be mortified athow this guy has less offensive skill than some high school kids


Let’s see you back up your points with some stats, you give horrible takes and you don’t even back it up with “bs with no context stats”,
You kept saying Ben Simmons is a terrible player, let’s show us some stats and convince us.
BTW, we all know he can’t shoot, so give us something new.
Yea stats sucks, we should throw stats away and solely check out what DT RAW has to say before making any decisions, thank you very much, you are the savior of the 76ers


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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#831 » by VDT » Sun Sep 6, 2020 2:10 pm

stormi wrote:You switched the discussion see cause at first you were naming tangible and intangible individual traits, and now you're doing an entire overlapping comparison. Nobody is saying Ben is Lebron, or even close. Or Ben in his current state is as polished and determined to be the best like Lebron was. The gap in their shooting profiles is a canyon. Being able to shoot c&s 3's, and being able to make shots off the dribble or contested jumpers against defenders with length are completely different things. Ben is so far away from him in that department that it drops him at least a full tier or two away. The similarities reside in their physical profiles and their vision, and ballhandling. In terms of being able to control the ball at that size and speed in the open court is rare. I've never seen Ben get pressured while holding the ball, never seen him get trapped into throwing turnovers and such. That composure and elegance with the basketball in his hand at that size has drawn the comparisons. Anyways.


I merely pointed out that if Simmons is really better than Lebron in everything save for shooting this should be reflected in his accomplishments. Lebron led a team to the finals at 22 being a pretty bad shooter himself (32% form 3, 70% from the ft line). Simmons at 24 hasnt done anything remotely close to that. In fact he is still viewed as liability in the half court.

Beyond that it is extremely obvious that Lebron was the better athlete, that he can get much easier to his spots and finish with contact (which is why he can be a volume scorer. Simmons scores mostly when he cant find an open lane. When contested his efficiency plummets and thats the reason he cant increase his scoring volume). He is also much better at controlling the game than Simmons.

Blaming Simmons issues solely to his lack of shooting is misguided imo. He is never going to be shooting off the dribble with any efficiency. At best he will be able to hit standstill 3s relatively efficiently. His biggest issue is that he cant force his way to the basket and score there. How many times have you seen him drive up to or a little beyond the ft line turn his back to the basket and look to pass? How many times have you seen him try to drive and in the end fading away from the basket? How many times have you seen him try to score with finger rolls instead of driving hard to the basket? All these are things that Lebron and Giannis to a degree can do and it's what allows them to be high volume and high efficiency scorers. Simmons inability to create this shots is what is holding him back.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#832 » by VDT » Sun Sep 6, 2020 2:11 pm

kio80 wrote:
DT RAW wrote:
stormi wrote:^ Claimed Ben Simmons isn't a great finisher around the rim. He's a savant with either hand.


No, hes not.

His finishing when driving in amd contested is HORRENDOUS. Your little stats are tracking all his dunks.

You can keep posting all the BS no context stats you want, doesnt change reality

This is why stats suck sometimes. If someone never saw NBA basketball and looked at bens stats they would think offesnively he was probably amazing, then when they saw him on the court they would be mortified athow this guy has less offensive skill than some high school kids


Let’s see you back up your points with some stats, you give horrible takes and you don’t even back it up with “bs with no context stats”,
You kept saying Ben Simmons is a terrible player, let’s show us some stats and convince us.
BTW, we all know he can’t shoot, so give us something new.
Yea stats sucks, we should throw stats away and solely check out what DT RAW has to say before making any decisions, thank you very much, you are the savior of the 76ers


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No one says that Simmons is a bad player in a vacuum. But compared to his contract and the Sixers needs he is not good enough.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#833 » by skulky » Sun Sep 6, 2020 2:32 pm

I think some of the lebron talk/comparisons were a bit much given ben’s limitations/unwillingness. At the same time I think VDT went off the rails in the other direction. Ben is what he is, while he put in work this year on the defensive end, everyone is waiting for the obvious improvements needed on the offensive side. Like embiid, Ben has stretches of unmotivated or some what apathetic play this year. I hated his play in the bubble before the injury. I really like Ben, but he is really frustrating to watch and his lack of development after the way they lost his rookie year to Boston. To me there is no untouchable player in this team, and I’d definitely be listening to offers, not sure I’d pull the trigger yet, but I’d think about it.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#834 » by DT RAW » Sun Sep 6, 2020 4:38 pm

VDT wrote:
kio80 wrote:
DT RAW wrote:
No, hes not.

His finishing when driving in amd contested is HORRENDOUS. Your little stats are tracking all his dunks.

You can keep posting all the BS no context stats you want, doesnt change reality

This is why stats suck sometimes. If someone never saw NBA basketball and looked at bens stats they would think offesnively he was probably amazing, then when they saw him on the court they would be mortified athow this guy has less offensive skill than some high school kids


Let’s see you back up your points with some stats, you give horrible takes and you don’t even back it up with “bs with no context stats”,
You kept saying Ben Simmons is a terrible player, let’s show us some stats and convince us.
BTW, we all know he can’t shoot, so give us something new.
Yea stats sucks, we should throw stats away and solely check out what DT RAW has to say before making any decisions, thank you very much, you are the savior of the 76ers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No one says that Simmons is a bad player in a vacuum. But compared to his contract and the Sixers needs he is not good enough.


When did I say hes a bad player? However he is making MAX money and is no where close to a max level player. So yes, maybe you should listen because I would have traded simmons 2 years ago and fired brown 2 years ago and we wouldnt be in this position
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#835 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sun Sep 6, 2020 5:06 pm

DT RAW wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
SixthStreet wrote:Does anyone think Ben can ever develop a 12-15 ft pull up jumper? A lot of the reason Simmons can't create his own half court offense is that defenses know he won't take a shot outside a layup type attempt and that they can funnel him and bring help knowing there's only one place they have to defend a shot attempt.

I feel at some point Ben is going to add skill and make a quantum leap in his ability to score. If that happens and we still have both Simmons and Embiid, it's not going to matter that we pissed away all these assets. They'll be a real contender.


This is how I feel too. Internal growth on this roster. Ben and Jo taking another step further towards stardom.


yep, year 5 will be different I'm sure of it!


You need to calm down there Dedicated. This was an A & B conversation there Prozak...You can C your way out of it. Maybe try some decaf. I happen to believe that players do improve over time. Thus the reason a lot of them are labeled "projects." Ben by no means was a finished product coming into the league, and the same goes for Shake, Mattise, Korkmaz, and even Zhaire Smith to a lesser extent. I've seen players come into the league unable to hit sand if they fell of a camel and a few years later become competent three point shooters that defenses need to be leery of. So go on somewhere with your Ben Simmons conspiracy rants. We don't need your Spencer Dinwiddie love here. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#836 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sun Sep 6, 2020 5:08 pm

DT RAW wrote:
VDT wrote:
kio80 wrote:
Let’s see you back up your points with some stats, you give horrible takes and you don’t even back it up with “bs with no context stats”,
You kept saying Ben Simmons is a terrible player, let’s show us some stats and convince us.
BTW, we all know he can’t shoot, so give us something new.
Yea stats sucks, we should throw stats away and solely check out what DT RAW has to say before making any decisions, thank you very much, you are the savior of the 76ers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No one says that Simmons is a bad player in a vacuum. But compared to his contract and the Sixers needs he is not good enough.


When did I say hes a bad player? However he is making MAX money and is no where close to a max level player. So yes, maybe you should listen because I would have traded simmons 2 years ago and fired brown 2 years ago and we wouldnt be in this position


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#837 » by 76ciology » Sun Sep 6, 2020 5:25 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
DT RAW wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
This is how I feel too. Internal growth on this roster. Ben and Jo taking another step further towards stardom.


yep, year 5 will be different I'm sure of it!


You need to calm down there Dedicated. This was an A & B conversation there Prozak...You can C your way out of it. Maybe try some decaf. I happen to believe that players do improve over time. Thus the reason a lot of them are labeled "projects." Ben by no means was a finished product coming into the league, and the same goes for Shake, Mattise, Korkmaz, and even Zhaire Smith to a lesser extent. I've seen players come into the league unable to hit sand if they fell of a camel and a few years later become competent three point shooters that defenses need to be leery of. So go on somewhere with your Ben Simmons conspiracy rants. We don't need your Spencer Dinwiddie love here. :lol: :lol: :lol:


He’s “dedicatedsixersfan”? :o
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#838 » by DT RAW » Sun Sep 6, 2020 7:57 pm

76ciology wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
DT RAW wrote:
yep, year 5 will be different I'm sure of it!


You need to calm down there Dedicated. This was an A & B conversation there Prozak...You can C your way out of it. Maybe try some decaf. I happen to believe that players do improve over time. Thus the reason a lot of them are labeled "projects." Ben by no means was a finished product coming into the league, and the same goes for Shake, Mattise, Korkmaz, and even Zhaire Smith to a lesser extent. I've seen players come into the league unable to hit sand if they fell of a camel and a few years later become competent three point shooters that defenses need to be leery of. So go on somewhere with your Ben Simmons conspiracy rants. We don't need your Spencer Dinwiddie love here. :lol: :lol: :lol:


He’s “dedicatedsixersfan”? :o


I dont even know who that is, but sure. Show me a single player in NBA history that couldnt shoot the ball, and or refused too for 4 years and then turned into a max level player offensively.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#839 » by Kobblehead » Sun Sep 6, 2020 9:02 pm

$20m dollar player on a max deal. Overpaid but still a championship level starter. We just need a creator in the halfcourt to jump him in the pecking order (John Wall, Chris Paul, Jrue Holiday, etc).
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV 

Post#840 » by DT RAW » Sun Sep 6, 2020 9:13 pm

is there any indication that NO is even willing to deal jrue? I thought the last that was heard about it is that they absolutely wanted to keep him. Jrue Holiday would be ideal here and would be like bringing our son back home.

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