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Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET

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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#201 » by Mik317 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:08 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Can we stop trying to trade Embiid every time Ben has a good game. Jo is friends with the owner anyways unless Jo asks for a trade he's not getting traded.

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It’s not a coincidence that every time Simmons has “the best game of his career” it’s without Jo. Look at Ben’s Cleveland game last year (and this year). Tonight was no different.

The entire national media already sees that we can’t maximize both players at the same, not sure why we as fans refuse to see that as well.


I am not super sure of that.

We never have maxinized either guy honestly. Due to circumstances and poor choices. Ben doesn't have the athletes to run with. Embiid doesn't have the creators and shooters. Hell both guys need shooters. Broken record time but again that first year team was the closest to what this team needs. Cov and Dario aren't the best shooters but they were willing and not too prideful to just spot up. Our flaw was our bench and while Marco and Ersan "fixed" it, that was too many poor defenders to hide and there were no shot creation.

The other elephant in the room is that i don't think either guy's perfect world is enough to win a chip. BOTH guys need to be able to sacrifice and adjust on a whim. Its not like Horford is flying up the court so why can't Joel do the same thing. Ben will also still need to shoot and attack all the time even with Joel's bigass on the floor (which becomes easier without Horford and to a lesser extent Tobias also wanting to stand in the lane). This idea that we have tried to make it work is not the full truth. We always were half-assing it while also not.\ Yeah Al is the perfect big next to Ben but at what cost?...and is that enough? Neto stanks but just having someone able to work off of Ben opens things up...what if we got a better version of that? Would that also help Embiid out?

I just don't think the immediate answer is to trade the only guys with top 20 upside (flaws and all) for what will be scraps...for systems that probably also won't get us over the hump. Beal will come at the expense of our rim protection and still require Ben to play more off ball...and still get a jumpshot. Trading Ben for DLo...hurts our defense on the perimeter and still doesn't mean Embiid can just post up all day. So why not adjust with the talent you have and actually fix the surrounding pieces with dudes that actually fit them. Embiid being here does not mean you can't run....and you can't run all the time. And in the half court, Ben can still attack...it just requires more spacing than Horford at the 4 can provide.

TLDR: Despite my angst I still don't see trading Ben or Embiid as the answer. Its never going to be a perfect fit but unless an equally talented piece is available, you don't downgrade for percieved fit. You don't Thunder yourself. They chose Ibaka over Harden because too many ballhandlers.....don't do that.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#202 » by nurseryc » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:10 am

Great win today guys. Congratulations to Ben Simmons who was today named Eastern Conference player of the week. His play in leading the team to wins since Embiid went down has been outstanding.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#203 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:11 am

phillynative wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Can we stop trying to trade Embiid every time Ben has a good game. Jo is friends with the owner anyways unless Jo asks for a trade he's not getting traded.

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It’s not a coincidence that every time Simmons has “the best game of his career” it’s without Jo. Look at Ben’s Cleveland game last year (and this year). Tonight was no different.

The entire national media already sees that we can’t maximize both players at the same, not sure why we as fans refuse to see that as well.


Ben has to learn how to deferring to Embiid and stay aggressive. The national media knows that as well.


That's just minimizing Ben. As I said, all the spots Ben got to tonight is the space Embiid usually occupies. Do we really think Ben just decides to switch his game off when Embiid plays?

It's either Embiid camps out on the perimeter, thus minimizing his game, or Ben standing around the perimeter doing nothing while Embiid operates in the post. The sum has always been less than its parts.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#204 » by Mik317 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:15 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:
phillynative wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
It’s not a coincidence that every time Simmons has “the best game of his career” it’s without Jo. Look at Ben’s Cleveland game last year (and this year). Tonight was no different.

The entire national media already sees that we can’t maximize both players at the same, not sure why we as fans refuse to see that as well.


Ben has to learn how to deferring to Embiid and stay aggressive. The national media knows that as well.


That's just minimizing Ben. As I said, all the spots Ben got to tonight is the space Embiid usually occupies. Do we really think Ben just decides to switch his game off when Embiid plays?

It's either Embiid camps out on the perimeter, thus minimizing his game, or Ben standing around the perimeter doing nothing while Embiid operates in the post. The sum has always been less than its parts.


They can also take turns. Bron and Kyrie did. KD and Russ did.If the drive isnt there, Embiid can cut in. If it is, he can pop out or wait for the lob as his man will have to make choices.

'Its not this either or kinda thing. There doesn't need to be one system....and again Ben can still run with Embiid on the floor. Al isn't exactly a runner himself. Embiid can trail just like Al.

also to be fair...Embiid needs to get in better shape regardless.


But the point is unless we find an elite guy who is willing to just play off ball and chuck 3s....no matter who we get, there will have to be sacrifice.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#205 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:24 am

Mik317 wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Can we stop trying to trade Embiid every time Ben has a good game. Jo is friends with the owner anyways unless Jo asks for a trade he's not getting traded.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


It’s not a coincidence that every time Simmons has “the best game of his career” it’s without Jo. Look at Ben’s Cleveland game last year (and this year). Tonight was no different.

The entire national media already sees that we can’t maximize both players at the same, not sure why we as fans refuse to see that as well.


I am not super sure of that.

We never have maxinized either guy honestly. Due to circumstances and poor choices. Ben doesn't have the athletes to run with. Embiid doesn't have the creators and shooters. Hell both guys need shooters. Broken record time but again that first year team was the closest to what this team needs. Cov and Dario aren't the best shooters but they were willing and not too prideful to just spot up. Our flaw was our bench and while Marco and Ersan "fixed" it, that was too many poor defenders to hide and there were no shot creation.

The other elephant in the room is that i don't think either guy's perfect world is enough to win a chip. BOTH guys need to be able to sacrifice and adjust on a whim. Its not like Horford is flying up the court so why can't Joel do the same thing. Ben will also still need to shoot and attack all the time even with Joel's bigass on the floor (which becomes easier without Horford and to a lesser extent Tobias also wanting to stand in the lane). This idea that we have tried to make it work is not the full truth. We always were half-assing it while also not.\ Yeah Al is the perfect big next to Ben but at what cost?...and is that enough? Neto stanks but just having someone able to work off of Ben opens things up...what if we got a better version of that? Would that also help Embiid out?

I just don't think the immediate answer is to trade the only guys with top 20 upside (flaws and all) for what will be scraps...for systems that probably also won't get us over the hump. Beal will come at the expense of our rim protection and still require Ben to play more off ball...and still get a jumpshot. Trading Ben for DLo...hurts our defense on the perimeter and still doesn't mean Embiid can just post up all day. So why not adjust with the talent you have and actually fix the surrounding pieces with dudes that actually fit them. Embiid being here does not mean you can't run....and you can't run all the time. And in the half court, Ben can still attack...it just requires more spacing than Horford at the 4 can provide.

TLDR: Despite my angst I still don't see trading Ben or Embiid as the answer. Its never going to be a perfect fit but unless an equally talented piece is available, you don't downgrade for percieved fit. You don't Thunder yourself. They chose Ibaka over Harden because too many ballhandlers.....don't do that.


I hear you man. I would never advocate for trading either for "scraps", but I think if you can trade either for another top 20 player I think you do it. But, you're saying exactly what I'm trying to: we haven't maximized either guy because we're trying to "halfway" compensate for both. They each need different complementary pieces, and they don't provide that for each other. There has to be a point where we commit to one or the other, otherwise we're selling ourselves short.

In addition to the fit issues, I'm losing faith in Embiid as a reliable franchise cornerstone. We're never going to get HCA with him playing 60 games per year, which is what we ought to expect at this point. He was supposed to be in the best shape of his life this season, and he's on track to miss 20+ games. We've also had two postseasons with him getting fluke injuries/illnesses, and I don't know why we should expect anything different in the future.

Blake Griffin just turned 30 and his body is completely broken down. He had fewer injuries over his career than Embiid. Yao Ming made it to 28 before completely breaking down. Amare made it to 28, as well. Embiid is about to turn 26 in March. If there's an opportunity to trade for another top-20 player who's healthier and a better fit, don't you have to consider it, given the evidence?
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#206 » by phifans » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:26 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Can we stop trying to trade Embiid every time Ben has a good game. Jo is friends with the owner anyways unless Jo asks for a trade he's not getting traded.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


It’s not a coincidence that every time Simmons has “the best game of his career” it’s without Jo. Look at Ben’s Cleveland game last year (and this year). Tonight was no different.

The entire national media already sees that we can’t maximize both players at the same, not sure why we as fans refuse to see that as well.


Ben's best performance has very few to do with his fit for Joel. It's just with the absence of Embiid Ben needs to step up and naturally has more ball in his hands thats plain and simple. Even you put Kevin Durant besides Joel he won't have any career games with a USG below 20%.

At the very least no matter how they fit with each other you don't trade Joel for lower level talent straight up like Towns or Beal as some guy above suggests.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#207 » by Mik317 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:34 am

There isn't another top 20 guy on the market and if he was there are a few things to mention.

1. we don't even know if that team will want/need Embiid. What if its Booker? They don't need Embiid with Ayton there for example.
2. If we are worried about his injuries...then what the hell do you think putting him on the market tells other teams?
3. Everyone thinks Towns is the perfect fit and while yeah his shooting is great but dude has not won his whole career and when he did it was with Jimmy, and when Jimmy went down, it went to the wire for them to make the playoffs....is this your king? But beyond that...it still doesn't fully fix everything either. Still lacking shooters. Still lacking shot creation. The missing fire from Embiid to the more lax KAT makes it more of a lateral move IMO.

My point is the EMbiid is great but due to everything that surrounds the guy..he may be worth the most to us than outside. When stars get traded...you don't get value for it. There aren't many star for star trades anymore

I get the angst over Embiid making it to 30. BUT thats 2-4 years away and will be at the end of his current contract..so who gives a ****.

There are times in which I wonder if the two will ever coexist well enough to win it all...BUT as I have said all this time, IMO the best chance is still with both of them together. Beal and Dlo are the only realistic targets and I don't think that does much for our chances unless they come to play WITH Joel and Ben. I troll on Towns...but he might be the one I'd think about but I don't think he's on the table and I dont think the FO makes that trade as it would go over like a bag of dicks to this fanbase lol...so its a waste to even think about IMO.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#208 » by the_process » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:40 am

The takes are just flying away in here.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#209 » by phifans » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:43 am

That being said. Getting a real point guard would lift both Ben and Joel's game immediately.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#210 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:44 am

Mik317 wrote:There isn't another top 20 guy on the market and if he was there are a few things to mention.

1. we don't even know if that team will want/need Embiid. What if its Booker? They don't need Embiid with Ayton there for example.
2. If we are worried about his injuries...then what the hell do you think putting him on the market tells other teams?
3. Everyone thinks Towns is the perfect fit and while yeah his shooting is great but dude has not won his whole career and when he did it was with Jimmy, and when Jimmy went down, it went to the wire for them to make the playoffs....is this your king? But beyond that...it still doesn't fully fix everything either. Still lacking shooters. Still lacking shot creation. The missing fire from Embiid to the more lax KAT makes it more of a lateral move IMO.

My point is the EMbiid is great but due to everything that surrounds the guy..he may be worth the most to us than outside. When stars get traded...you don't get value for it. There aren't many star for star trades anymore

I get the angst over Embiid making it to 30. BUT thats 2-4 years away and will be at the end of his current contract..so who gives a ****.

There are times in which I wonder if the two will ever coexist well enough to win it all...BUT as I have said all this time, IMO the best chance is still with both of them together. Beal and Dlo are the only realistic targets and I don't think that does much for our chances unless they come to play WITH Joel and Ben. I troll on Towns...but he might be the one I'd think about but I don't think he's on the table and I dont think the FO makes that trade as it would go over like a bag of dicks to this fanbase lol...so its a waste to even think about IMO.


That's an extremely poor take on Towns.

First of all, neither Jimmy nor Embiid have won jack their entire careers. I wouldn't brag about not being able to make it past the 2nd round. It's also not fair to call KAT a loser when he's younger than both and has played in a better conference his entire career. Not to mention playing for maybe the worst run franchise in the league. To add to that, he's got Embiid beat in career BPM and WS/48, both of which are stats that supposedly favor players on teams with better records.

I do think KAT can be the #1 option on a championship team. I never said acquiring him would solve everything, but it'd be one step in the right direction towards solving the mess EB made this offseason.

Also, who gives a **** about 2-4 years away? I for sure do. Our run is over the moment Embiid goes down for good. I'd rather find his valuable replacement now than suffer through that WHEN it happens.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#211 » by Arsenal » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:56 am

What was that famous Mike Schmidt quote?

"The thrill of victory... and the agony of hearing about it the next day..."
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#212 » by Aussiepiston1 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:56 am

We gotta stick with Embiid and Simmons.
The dudes that have to go are the ones that don’t fit.
Maybe Sacramento gets antsy and decides they want Horford and Harris or just Harris and sends Horford to the clippers for smaller pieces.
We get better fitting players in bogdan, Barnes, dedmon and expirings in bazemore or shift him to New York for Morris
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#213 » by Arsenal » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:57 am

MIA lucks out again, this time against SAC at home. Absolute fraud of a "contender". We'll destroy them if we face them in the playoffs.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#214 » by phifans » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:07 am

BB did make a huge mistake wasting two more years play Ben as a pg just to realize he should be best used as a roll man in pick and roll with a real pg. :banghead:
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#215 » by pickprotection » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:13 am

I'd much rather have a durable star like Beal who is a lock to play 2500 mpg a season even if he is considered 'worse' than Embiid. Embiid is the definition of unreliable and if it only stopped at that it would be platable but he is also unprofessional and still doesn't take his body, conditioning or weight seriously.

I'd much rather bet on Ben who is only limited by something he can't control (natural born shooting ability) like capela, dwight, deandre etc.

Embiid is limited by stuff he can directly control yet he hasn't changed in 3 years. I'm growing sick and tired of him.
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#216 » by Arsenal » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:19 am

pickprotection wrote:I'd much rather have a durable star like Beal who is a lock to play 2500 mpg a season even if he is considered 'worse' than Embiid. Embiid is the definition of unreliable and if it only stopped at that it would be platable but he is also unprofessional and still doesn't take his body, conditioning or weight seriously.

I'd much rather bet on Ben who is only limited by something he can't control (natural born shooting ability) like capela, dwight, deandre etc.

Embiid is limited by stuff he can directly control yet he hasn't changed in 3 years. I'm growing sick and tired of him.


It's become trolling at this point lol. Which banned user were you before?
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#217 » by sam-hinkie » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:24 am

Beal and towns consistently lead there teams to top 5 picks there not winners
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#218 » by Aussiepiston1 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 am

phifans wrote:BB did make a huge mistake wasting two more years play Ben as a pg just to realize he should be best used as a roll man in pick and roll with a real pg. :banghead:

Imagine if we signed Kemba instead of Horford and played Simmons in the draymond role :nod:
Kemba, Richardson, Harris, Simmons and Embiid :nod:
Or even let Harris walk and signed the Morris twins
Heck even signed brogdon :banghead:
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#219 » by Mik317 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:37 am

Beal is pretty injury prone himself..so weird flex
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Re: Game 45: 76ers @ Nets - Monday Jan. 20th - 3:00pm ET 

Post#220 » by Arsenal » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:40 am

Aussiepiston1 wrote:
phifans wrote:BB did make a huge mistake wasting two more years play Ben as a pg just to realize he should be best used as a roll man in pick and roll with a real pg. :banghead:

Imagine if we signed Kemba instead of Horford and played Simmons in the draymond role :nod:
Kemba, Richardson, Harris, Simmons and Embiid :nod:
Or even let Harris walk and signed the Morris twins
Heck even signed brogdon :banghead:


Or D'Lo, who at least has the size to not compromise our switch-everything defense. Sure in a vacuum Horford is currently better. But it was ridiculous to the point of malpractice to sign him instead of a 23 year old all-star primary perimeter playmaking lead guard for the same money.

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