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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#201 » by 76ciology » Tue Apr 6, 2021 11:17 am

^ what you need is to slide Ben into that role Aaron Gordon plays for the Nuggets. Tobias can play that role MPJ plays.

What the team is missing is a Jamal Murray. Who can be relied upon aside from Embiid to carry the scoring down the stretch.

Right now, we’re like the Nuggets but with Aaron Gordon as point guard and having Seth play Jamal Murray’s role.

Personally I prefer a couple of combo guards. Way better than what Maxey and Milton could be. You saw a somewhat glimpse of it with JJ-Jimmy backcourt. Just clunky with Jimmy not having a good perimeter shooting while JJ lacks playmaking ability.

Then you can slide Ben into a primary ball handler on fastbreak but secondary or tertiary ball handler on halfcourt. A similar role to what Draymond plays with the splash brothers.

It is what it is with Ben. He’s a good player its just he’s not as good as what we projected him to be when we draft him. He’s be great and his talent can be maxed out for a team like the Blazers, Jazz or the Cavs but not with us.

I think we either find a way to find ourselves a “Jamal Murray” or a “couple of combo guards who can create and shoot” or we just eventually trade Ben as LAST OPTION.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#202 » by youngcrev » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:44 pm

The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?

Jokic is a unique talent. He's arguably the best passing center of all time. That offense is built around that ability, something that's certainly not a strong suit for Embiid.

And Seth Curry certainly can't be the on ball threat that Jamal Murray is...

As for what they need in general, yeah, they need a guy that can shoot off the dribble and run PnR at a high level... The same thing people have been saying since we drafted Simmons.

With how much Tobias has stepped up, that may lessen how good that player needs to be. A Brogdon type might get them there rather than needing a Chris Paul level guy.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#203 » by sixers4real » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:52 pm

youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?

Jokic is a unique talent. He's arguably the best passing center of all time. That offense is built around that ability, something that's certainly not a strong suit for Embiid.

And Seth Curry certainly can't be the on ball threat that Jamal Murray is...

As for what they need in general, yeah, they need a guy that can shoot off the dribble and run PnR at a high level... The same thing people have been saying since we drafted Simmons.

With how much Tobias has stepped up, that may lessen how good that player needs to be. A Brogdon type might get them there rather than needing a Chris Paul level guy.

I see Brogdon as missing piece to a championship team. And we surely can get him without losing Embiid Simmons Harris Milton
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#204 » by Wilfried » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:57 pm

youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?


Top teams don't model themselves ... They make their own model

Our model is our defensive identity, and some sort of bully ball with Joel/Dwight/Ben (Tobias could be better in this part) ... where we try to draw a lot of fouls. We are in that part the best team in the NBA.

That should compensate that we're not an elite 3-point shooting team, nor have a lot of elite creaters on the team.

If we can get more of those in the future, good, but I cannot come at the cost of our D and strategy of putting Joel on the line (for instance a Beal for Simmons swap).
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#205 » by 76ciology » Tue Apr 6, 2021 2:21 pm

youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?

Jokic is a unique talent. He's arguably the best passing center of all time. That offense is built around that ability, something that's certainly not a strong suit for Embiid.

And Seth Curry certainly can't be the on ball threat that Jamal Murray is...

As for what they need in general, yeah, they need a guy that can shoot off the dribble and run PnR at a high level... The same thing people have been saying since we drafted Simmons.

With how much Tobias has stepped up, that may lessen how good that player needs to be. A Brogdon type might get them there rather than needing a Chris Paul level guy.


As you can see I didnt compare Biid and Jokic.

Im talking roles in general.

Option 1= jokic
Option 2= murray
Option 3= MPJ
Option 4 = Gordon

Ideal for Sixers:
Option 1 = embiid
Option 2 = Seth’s brother
Option 3 = Tobias
Option 4 = Ben

We need to be good enough that we can slide Ben from option 3 to option 4 then Tobi from option 2 to option 3.

Sorry if the post you replied to gave you a wrong impression but i hope this clarifies things.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#206 » by 76ciology » Tue Apr 6, 2021 2:40 pm

Wilfried wrote:
youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?


Top teams don't model themselves ... They make their own model

Our model is our defensive identity, and some sort of bully ball with Joel/Dwight/Ben (Tobias could be better in this part) ... where we try to draw a lot of fouls. We are in that part the best team in the NBA.

That should compensate that we're not an elite 3-point shooting team, nor have a lot of elite creaters on the team.

If we can get more of those in the future, good, but I cannot come at the cost of our D and strategy of putting Joel on the line (for instance a Beal for Simmons swap).


Not in style. But in hierarchy of option on offense.

See the previous post to this one.

The missing piece we need is a dynamic top tier combo guard who can create and shoot from the perimeter, someone like Jamal Murray or Harden.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#207 » by youngcrev » Tue Apr 6, 2021 3:05 pm

Wilfried wrote:
youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?


Top teams don't model themselves ... They make their own model

Our model is our defensive identity, and some sort of bully ball with Joel/Dwight/Ben (Tobias could be better in this part) ... where we try to draw a lot of fouls. We are in that part the best team in the NBA.

That should compensate that we're not an elite 3-point shooting team, nor have a lot of elite creaters on the team.

If we can get more of those in the future, good, but I cannot come at the cost of our D and strategy of putting Joel on the line (for instance a Beal for Simmons swap).


They are pretty mediocre offensively, so there's a lot of room to grow there. The defense is at a level that should let them compete with anyone, but it's gonna be a slogfest with their offense, particularly with teams trying to key in on Jo and force him to become a passer. In general, I think this team has the personnel to integrate a minus defender and maintain a high level of play on that end, though obviously that depends on who you are losing. It'll be interesting to see how far they can get this year with the current set up, and should tell us a lot about how close they are going into a pretty important off-season.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#208 » by HardenToSixers » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:31 pm

76ciology wrote:
youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?

Jokic is a unique talent. He's arguably the best passing center of all time. That offense is built around that ability, something that's certainly not a strong suit for Embiid.

And Seth Curry certainly can't be the on ball threat that Jamal Murray is...

As for what they need in general, yeah, they need a guy that can shoot off the dribble and run PnR at a high level... The same thing people have been saying since we drafted Simmons.

With how much Tobias has stepped up, that may lessen how good that player needs to be. A Brogdon type might get them there rather than needing a Chris Paul level guy.


As you can see I didnt compare Biid and Jokic.

Im talking roles in general.

Option 1= jokic
Option 2= murray
Option 3= MPJ
Option 4 = Gordon

Ideal for Sixers:
Option 1 = embiid
Option 2 = Seth’s brother
Option 3 = Tobias
Option 4 = Ben

We need to be good enough that we can slide Ben from option 3 to option 4 then Tobi from option 2 to option 3.

Sorry if the post you replied to gave you a wrong impression but i hope this clarifies things.

Embiid and Tobias are better bucket getters than the Nuggets equivalents. Simmons is better than AG when he decides to pull his head out of his ass.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#209 » by HardenToSixers » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:34 pm

sixers4real wrote:
youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?

Jokic is a unique talent. He's arguably the best passing center of all time. That offense is built around that ability, something that's certainly not a strong suit for Embiid.

And Seth Curry certainly can't be the on ball threat that Jamal Murray is...

As for what they need in general, yeah, they need a guy that can shoot off the dribble and run PnR at a high level... The same thing people have been saying since we drafted Simmons.

With how much Tobias has stepped up, that may lessen how good that player needs to be. A Brogdon type might get them there rather than needing a Chris Paul level guy.

I see Brogdon as missing piece to a championship team. And we surely can get him without losing Embiid Simmons Harris Milton
would’ve been the right target instead of Horford. Thanks a lot Elton
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#210 » by LeTimmAy » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:47 pm

I'd go with the starting line up
Embiid
Harris
Green
Curry
Simmons

Then

Embiid
Simmons
Green
Curry
Hill

Then

Howard
Harris
Thybulle
Shake
Hill


And that would be it for the playoffs if there's no situational need (or garbage time) to bring in another player (Korkmaz, Tolliver, maxey).

Of course a line up

Simmons
Harris
Thybulle
Shake/Green
Hill

Would be an option for short stretches of running to give another look.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#211 » by LloydFree » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:29 pm

51X3RF4N wrote:Ok, so many more games into the season...here are my new thoughts.

Spoiler:
Ben is clearly not going to be a consistent 20ppg scoring option. He's a facilitator, straight from the coach's mouth. So if that's the case, and best you can expect from Ben is the occasional aggressive game where he scores more than 16 points, you HAVE to find another creator. Someone who can get their own shot.


Hill is going to help the bench unit, and free up Shake to do SG things rather than PG things where I just don't see him excelling. Maxey for some reason is unplayable in Doc's eyes. I don't get it, but if he's not good enough yet then that's why Hill was acquired. Maybe Maxey learns and works hard and takes a 2nd year leap, but you can't rely on the happening.

Thybulle has impressed and it looks like depending on matchup and whether offense is needed more than defense, Doc will go with either Matisse or Furk. I don't see Furk coming back after this season when he knows he's battling for the 9th spot at best, and still isn't always winning.

As for the future of the lineups...

Embiid/?
Harris/Reed
Simmons/Thybulle
Curry/Milton/Joe
?/Maxey


That's not a bad 9 person roster to start the off-season with. But it's clearly missing a legit PG creator (Lowry, Ball) who can hit 3s, spread the floor, play defense a bit and take over to get a perimeter bucket when Ben decides he wants to facilitate more than score.

Spoiler:
I'm thinking like, we have a 7'0 unstoppable offensive player, and one of the better catch and shoot guys in the game, along with a stretch 4 who can get his own buckets with a modicum of consistency. And then we have a 6'11 Draymond type.

So what's missing is that guy who can just pull up from the logo with confidence and bang home a 3.


Unfortunately we are handicapped with salary issues so we can't sign a superstar. We can't trade for a superstar. We can't just draft a superstar at the 27th pick. Maxey is unlikely to develop into one over a single off-season. Milton is peaking in my opinion. He's a scoring guard. What you see is what you get. Not a great pull up threat from 3, more of a catch and shoot guy who can get into the paint and create a bit.

I do think Maxey/Milton/Thybulle/Reed off the bench is a nice foundation for the future. I like Isaiah Joe too, but unclear on the fit if he's battling Shake for playing time
. Maybe he waits in the wings and works on his game enough that he can eventually take over for Seth in the starting lineup? Maybe Reed continues to add strength and develops his game enough that Doc sees him as interchangeable between the 4/5 role off the bench, but it sure would be nice to add a Vet 4/5 guy too for more consistency in a playoff setting for next season.

I don't think it's a given that Seth Curry will be on the team next year, much less a Starter. With them holding an option on George Hill and them right up against the tax, I could easily see the 76ers selling Curry for a bench Forward, and starting Thybulle and George Hill. If healthy, George Hill at 10 million is better value than Curry at 8-9 million.
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Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#212 » by zaz102 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:49 pm

51X3RF4N wrote:Ok, so many more games into the season...here are my new thoughts.

Ben is clearly not going to be a consistent 20ppg scoring option. He's a facilitator, straight from the coach's mouth. So if that's the case, and best you can expect from Ben is the occasional aggressive game where he scores more than 16 points, you HAVE to find another creator. Someone who can get their own shot.

Hill is going to help the bench unit, and free up Shake to do SG things rather than PG things where I just don't see him excelling. Maxey for some reason is unplayable in Doc's eyes. I don't get it, but if he's not good enough yet then that's why Hill was acquired. Maybe Maxey learns and works hard and takes a 2nd year leap, but you can't rely on the happening.

Thybulle has impressed and it looks like depending on matchup and whether offense is needed more than defense, Doc will go with either Matisse or Furk. I don't see Furk coming back after this season when he knows he's battling for the 9th spot at best, and still isn't always winning.

As for the future of the lineups...

Embiid/?
Harris/Reed
Simmons/Thybulle
Curry/Milton/Joe
?/Maxey

That's not a bad 9 person roster to start the off-season with. But it's clearly missing a legit PG creator (Lowry, Ball) who can hit 3s, spread the floor, play defense a bit and take over to get a perimeter bucket when Ben decides he wants to facilitate more than score.

I'm thinking like, we have a 7'0 unstoppable offensive player, and one of the better catch and shoot guys in the game, along with a stretch 4 who can get his own buckets with a modicum of consistency. And then we have a 6'11 Draymond type.

So what's missing is that guy who can just pull up from the logo with confidence and bang home a 3.

Unfortunately we are handicapped with salary issues so we can't sign a superstar. We can't trade for a superstar. We can't just draft a superstar at the 27th pick. Maxey is unlikely to develop into one over a single off-season. Milton is peaking in my opinion. He's a scoring guard. What you see is what you get. Not a great pull up threat from 3, more of a catch and shoot guy who can get into the paint and create a bit.

I do think Maxey/Milton/Thybulle/Reed off the bench is a nice foundation for the future. I like Isaiah Joe too, but unclear on the fit if he's battling Shake for playing time. Maybe he waits in the wings and works on his game enough that he can eventually take over for Seth in the starting lineup? Maybe Reed continues to add strength and develops his game enough that Doc sees him as interchangeable between the 4/5 role off the bench, but it sure would be nice to add a Vet 4/5 guy too for more consistency in a playoff setting for next season.

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Curious, why do you think we can't trade for a superstar?

We almost traded for Harden and Lowry this past season and I think we have more valuable pieces going into next year I think than this year (Hill and Tobi + Shake + Thybulle + Maxey + Reed stock either stayed neutral or rose at least a little).

I feel like every contract they have is positive. I think with one less year and Harris' great play may even make him positive.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#213 » by Eyeamok » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:21 pm

sixers4real wrote:
youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?

Jokic is a unique talent. He's arguably the best passing center of all time. That offense is built around that ability, something that's certainly not a strong suit for Embiid.

And Seth Curry certainly can't be the on ball threat that Jamal Murray is...

As for what they need in general, yeah, they need a guy that can shoot off the dribble and run PnR at a high level... The same thing people have been saying since we drafted Simmons.

With how much Tobias has stepped up, that may lessen how good that player needs to be. A Brogdon type might get them there rather than needing a Chris Paul level guy.

I see Brogdon as missing piece to a championship team. And we surely can get him without losing Embiid Simmons Harris Milton


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Please allow me to introduce myself I'm a man of wealth and taste.

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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#214 » by Zumramania » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:51 pm

If I'm the Pacers, I'm not sure I would even trade Brogdon. And if I would I would ask for both Milton and Maxey + picks. But maybe that would not be enough and they would ask for Simmons.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#215 » by LloydFree » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:40 pm

So now we're overrating Malcolm Brogdon now. If Brogdon was worth Ben Simmons in a trade, believe me the Pacers wouldn't be in 9th place right now.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#216 » by bebopdeluxe » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:05 am

6ers83 wrote:Seth looks a bench player to me


He looks like a bench player to me as well - at least the post-COVID version.

i think when Hill is ready to go, I swap Curry for Kork in the starting lineup. Kork seems to be way more productive with the starters, and he SHOOTS THE BALL. It is kind of like what Lincoln said of Grant early in the Civil War - "I cannot spare this man. He FIGHTS."

We cannot spare Kork - he SHOOTS.

Too many times Curry hesitates on the wing. Sometimes he dribbles it into a shot in the lane, but we need him to have ZERO consciousness out there. One potential benefit of moving him to the 2nd unit with Hill is Hill has a little better dribble-drive than Ben (at least, the non-aggressive Ben), which should hopefully collapse the defense and get Curry cleaner looks.

Hill
Curry
Shake
Scott or Tobi (make Harris the first sub out at the 6 minute mark and bring him back early 2nd quarter with the 2nd unit)
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#217 » by sixers4real » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:31 am

Eyeamok wrote:
sixers4real wrote:
youngcrev wrote:The Sixers should model themselves after a team that's worse than them and that plays a style that they can't with their roster?

Jokic is a unique talent. He's arguably the best passing center of all time. That offense is built around that ability, something that's certainly not a strong suit for Embiid.

And Seth Curry certainly can't be the on ball threat that Jamal Murray is...

As for what they need in general, yeah, they need a guy that can shoot off the dribble and run PnR at a high level... The same thing people have been saying since we drafted Simmons.

With how much Tobias has stepped up, that may lessen how good that player needs to be. A Brogdon type might get them there rather than needing a Chris Paul level guy.

I see Brogdon as missing piece to a championship team. And we surely can get him without losing Embiid Simmons Harris Milton


How please? I'm asking for a friend.

Hill + resigned Korkmaz + 2 FRPs
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#218 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:39 am

I have never been a fan of copycat teams. It's never worked. On top of that, people suggest to copy the motto of teams that fall short of winning rings. I remember during the Iverson years, there was a point where people were suggesting we do what the Kings from that era were doing with Peja Stojakovic, Bibby, and C Webb. That Kings team never won anything other than a few playoff series. They had a thrilling seven game series with the Lakers and that was really it. Then people wanted us to do what Phoenix was doing with Steve Nash, Stoudemire, and Marion. Same thing...That Phoenix team came close a few times, but never even made it to the finals. I'm just not a fan of it in general at all. I firmly believe that it's the unique teams that win championships. We'll never see another team like the Celtics from the 80s or the Lakers from that era. We'll never see another Detroit Pistons "Bad Boys" squad, there will never be another Bulls Dynasty, or Spurs dynasty, or Warrior dynasty. Those teams win because of how unique they are and how much they stand out. They also win because they have elite talent and great supporting players on their roster(S). I don't think there is necessarily a recipe of players you can put together to model what another team has done. That's how people who play 2K think. If we're going to win a ring, it's going to be because we have incredibly talented players dominating the game at their positions. As of right now, we have Embiid and that is about it. Maybe Ben can get there, but unless he becomes a more assertive scorer, it's not gonna happen. We can win with Embiid and Simmons...IF Simmons takes the next step, grows a pair and starts expanding his game outside of five foot shots. He's insanely talented everywhere else, and while he's definitely on Aaron Gordons level athletically, he's by far the more superior player everywhere else. It's a bad comparison and even more puzzling suggestion. Sorry, not trying to be rude about this at all.
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#219 » by Zumramania » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:43 am

LloydFree wrote:So now we're overrating Malcolm Brogdon now. If Brogdon was worth Ben Simmons in a trade, believe me the Pacers wouldn't be in 9th place right now.


Well, half of their team was injured this year. Wizards with Beal and a clean health bill are in the 12th place, Pels with Zion and Ingram are in the 11th place, so I'm not sure this is a strong argument for how good a player is. I'm not saying that he is worth Ben Simmons, but just trying to look at things from the Pacers perspective. In this season Brogdon averages 21 points, 4.7 rebounds and 5.8 assists and he shoots 40% from 3 on 6.6 attempts. I don't watch the Pacers games but I think that defensively he is also ok. So what would you ask for him if you were the Pacers?
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Re: Sixers Lineups Thread 

Post#220 » by sixers4real » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:16 pm

Zumramania wrote:
LloydFree wrote:So now we're overrating Malcolm Brogdon now. If Brogdon was worth Ben Simmons in a trade, believe me the Pacers wouldn't be in 9th place right now.


Well, half of their team was injured this year. Wizards with Beal and a clean health bill are in the 12th place, Pels with Zion and Ingram are in the 11th place, so I'm not sure this is a strong argument for how good a player is. I'm not saying that he is worth Ben Simmons, but just trying to look at things from the Pacers perspective. In this season Brogdon averages 21 points, 4.7 rebounds and 5.8 assists and he shoots 40% from 3 on 6.6 attempts. I don't watch the Pacers games but I think that defensively he is also ok. So what would you ask for him if you were the Pacers?

Maxey, 2 FRPs, 2 swaps, expiring (Hill), salary match (resigned Korkmaz)

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