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Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III

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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#81 » by BullyKing » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:29 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
BullyKing wrote:I fear you are teetering on the edge of all reason here. Teams that aren't contending trading their expiring marginal players for even more marginal picks is pretty much what the NBA trade deadline is.

Robinson is an outright scrub.

Burks can play a little bit, but I promise you there will be more proven players of equal or better talent on the buyout market to be had for free.

We literally just paid 3 draft assets for someone else's pump and dump projects.


You can keep calling them draft assets or you can accept reality. The Sixers weren't using those picks. Does it make you feel better to view the trade as Burks and Robinson for $1.5 million in cash that Harris now won't receive? Because that description is much more accurate.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#82 » by HartfordWhalers » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:29 pm

Sixers needed to upgrade their 6th-9th men. Maybe they only got 8th and 9th men upgraded, but they still got those guys upgraded and for a cost that I absolutely cannot believe the bemoaning. It feels like just a year ago people were yelling -- why trade for more distant 2nds, get help now!
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#83 » by BullyKing » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:30 pm

eagereyez wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
eagereyez wrote:Obviously the picks aren't worth much. The salient point is that they should be used to make the team better in the long run, and this ain't it. Even using them to draft players would be a better use.


The salient point is that there is almost no way to make a contending, or really any, team better in the long run with late second round picks. I'd rather take literally anyone than sell them for cash but 30 games of a rotation player is definitely better than the average rate of return on a pick in the second half of the second round.


30 games of a rotation player who is gone at the end of the season is equivalent to selling them for cash. The only benefit is it makes the Sixers slightly more entertaining as they get bounced in the playoffs. If you're gonna be a GM in the NBA then play to win, not to entertain.


And selling them for cash is entertaining to you? Or is selling them for cash playing to win in your mind?
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the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#84 » by phifans » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:30 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
BullyKing wrote:I fear you are teetering on the edge of all reason here. Teams that aren't contending trading their expiring marginal players for even more marginal picks is pretty much what the NBA trade deadline is.

Robinson is an outright scrub.

Burks can play a little bit, but I promise you there will be more proven players of equal or better talent on the buyout market to be had for free.

We literally just paid 3 draft assets for someone else's pump and dump projects.


I just remember you recommended us doing something similar like trade seconds for IT ?
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#85 » by Kobblehead » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:34 pm

BullyKing wrote:You can keep calling them draft assets or you can accept reality. The Sixers weren't using those picks. Does it make you feel better to view the trade as Burks and Robinson for $1.5 million in cash that Harris now won't receive? Because that description is much more accurate.

That's not reality, that's a hypothetical scenario.

Last year, we used a bundle of seconds in a package to move up in the 1st to get a player we liked. And we used a late 2nd on Shayok.

We're losing the flexibility to move up draft boards or the chance to get a guy that might help in a few years. All for a career scrub like Robinson and a few months of Burks. Sounds like terrible asset management.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#86 » by Phila Tough » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:36 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Phila Tough wrote:Alec Burks could be an absolute steal. I really don't see how anyone can complain about this deal. Complaining about 2nd round picks? Really? Maybe in 2015...


While I agree that Burks was a solid acquisition, I do recognize that second round picks are important for this teams future. We need to hit on some of them for depth, or even guys like Shake who have been incredible for us as a second rounder.


We have enough young talent. And we haven't really hit on any 2nd round picks outside of Richuan Holmes these past few years. I rather cash them in for impact players right now. How many 2nd round picks do we have left?
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#87 » by BullyKing » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:40 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
BullyKing wrote:You can keep calling them draft assets or you can accept reality. The Sixers weren't using those picks. Does it make you feel better to view the trade as Burks and Robinson for $1.5 million in cash that Harris now won't receive? Because that description is much more accurate.

That's not reality, that's a hypothetical scenario.

Last year, we used a bundle of seconds in a package to move up in the 1st to get a player we liked. And we used a late 2nd on Shayok.

We're losing the flexibility to move up draft boards or the chance to get a guy that might help in a few years. All for a career scrub like Robinson and a few months of Burks. Sounds like terrible asset management.


Made up facts are not reality. We used an EARLY second to move up. That is a different matter. We used one late pick on Shayok and sold others. We still have late picks to take our annual 2-way guy who most likely would not otherwise have been drafted anyway.

This is just ridiculous. How far up the draft boards do you think the 45th pick gets you? Packaging that pick with 36th pick might just rocket you all the way up to 34th.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#88 » by Kobblehead » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:40 pm

phifans wrote:I just remember you recommended us doing something similar like trade seconds for IT ?


Isaiah Thomas is a career 18.1 ppg player.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#89 » by Stanford » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:44 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
phifans wrote:I just remember you recommended us doing something similar like trade seconds for IT ?


Isaiah Thomas is a career 18.1 ppg player.


So?
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#90 » by Kobblehead » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:44 pm

BullyKing wrote:Made up facts are not reality. We used an EARLY second to move up. That is a different matter. We used one late pick on Shayok and sold others. We still have late picks to take our annual 2-way guy who most likely would not otherwise have been drafted anyway.

This is just ridiculous. How far up the draft boards do you think the 45th pick gets you? Packaging that pick with 36th pick might just rocket you all the way up to 34th.

So you prefer to have less draft assets in favor of a few months of players that don't matter? Still sounds like terrible asset management.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#91 » by agiaco » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:46 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
BullyKing wrote:Made up facts are not reality. We used an EARLY second to move up. That is a different matter. We used one late pick on Shayok and sold others. We still have late picks to take our annual 2-way guy who most likely would not otherwise have been drafted anyway.

This is just ridiculous. How far up the draft boards do you think the 45th pick gets you? Packaging that pick with 36th pick might just rocket you all the way up to 34th.

So you prefer to have less draft assets in favor of a few months of players that don't matter? Still sounds like terrible asset management.


Seems a little early to say they don't matter.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#92 » by phillynative » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:46 pm

agiaco wrote:
phillynative wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Hmmm I guess that's not bad as we don't give up any players. Do we now go and make another trade with Zhaire/Mike Scott, etc? I hope so. Need another shooter/ball handler now.


This.

I see Alec and Robinson as wings.

Still need a guard.


Umm, Burks shoots 37.5% and Robinson iii 40% from three. Not incredible, but I'd say they're both shooters. There's not going to be some elite 3-point shooter readily available.


Umm burks has averaged just under 1 three per game on 2 attempts for his career. If he has all of the sudden turned the corner and this season is not an outlier than great . Also Robinson is another guy who has averaged less than 1 3 per game for his career . Robinson is a slightly more athletic , younger Ennis. The extra playing time and freedom has bolsted their stats which is what golden state wanted.

Im not mad at the move i like the added depth but neither of these guys are going to scare the defense from not packing the paint or going to the zone.

We need a "bomber"...
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#93 » by Kobblehead » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:47 pm

Stanford wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:
phifans wrote:I just remember you recommended us doing something similar like trade seconds for IT ?


Isaiah Thomas is a career 18.1 ppg player.


So?

So he's a well-established, proven talent that actually has the upside to be worth the price of rental. And he has the skillset to actually make a difference in a playoff series.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#94 » by BullyKing » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:47 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
BullyKing wrote:Made up facts are not reality. We used an EARLY second to move up. That is a different matter. We used one late pick on Shayok and sold others. We still have late picks to take our annual 2-way guy who most likely would not otherwise have been drafted anyway.

This is just ridiculous. How far up the draft boards do you think the 45th pick gets you? Packaging that pick with 36th pick might just rocket you all the way up to 34th.

So you prefer to have less draft assets in favor of a few months of players that don't matter? Still sounds like terrible asset management.


No. I prefer to keep things in perspective and not make things out to be what they are not. The Sixers are now missing the 50th pick in the draft. If pick 49 comes around and there is someone on the board that they would actually like to select, they can always write their own check for 500k and buy a pick.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#95 » by Negrodamus » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:48 pm

Phila Tough wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Phila Tough wrote:Alec Burks could be an absolute steal. I really don't see how anyone can complain about this deal. Complaining about 2nd round picks? Really? Maybe in 2015...


While I agree that Burks was a solid acquisition, I do recognize that second round picks are important for this teams future. We need to hit on some of them for depth, or even guys like Shake who have been incredible for us as a second rounder.


We have enough young talent. And we haven't really hit on any 2nd round picks outside of Richuan Holmes these past few years. I rather cash them in for impact players right now. How many 2nd round picks do we have left?


Right, but we're not committed to Pelle, Burke (who might be gone anyway), O'Quinn, or Neto beyond this year. Jonah Bolden is clearly a lost cause. James Ennis and Zhaire are moveable assets. This roster is not static. Young players come and go.

I'm not going to present the same tired argument about the Raptors, but there's a reason they are still relevant post Kawhi. It's because they kept trying to find overlooked players with star upside.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#96 » by agiaco » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:49 pm

phillynative wrote:
agiaco wrote:
phillynative wrote:
This.

I see Alec and Robinson as wings.

Still need a guard.


Umm, Burks shoots 37.5% and Robinson iii 40% from three. Not incredible, but I'd say they're both shooters. There's not going to be some elite 3-point shooter readily available.


Umm burks has averaged just under 1 three per game on 2 attempts for his career. If he has all of the sudden turned the corner and this season is not an outlier than great . Also Robinson is another guy who has averaged less than 1 3 per game for his career . Robinson is a slightly more athletic , younger Ennis. The extra playing time and freedom has bolsted their stats which is what golden state wanted.

Im not mad at the move i like the added depth but neither of these guys are going to scare the defense from not packing the paint or going to the zone.

We need a "bomber"...


Yeah, not getting a bomber. Tell me which so-called bombers are going to be available. When you look at the current state of shooting on this team I'll gladly take both.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#97 » by Kobblehead » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:51 pm

BullyKing wrote:No. I prefer to keep things in perspective and not make things out to be what they are not. The Sixers are now missing the 50th pick in the draft. If pick 49 comes around and there is someone on the board that they would actually like to select, they can always write their own check for 500k and buy a pick.


You prefer to keep things in perspective, I prefer to keep assets and just get players of equal or better talent for free on the buyout market.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#98 » by HartfordWhalers » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:51 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
Stanford wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is a career 18.1 ppg player.


So?

So he's a well-established, proven talent that actually has the upside to be worth the price of rental. And he has the skillset to actually make a difference in a playoff series.


You are not concerned about the high profile injury he suffered, and the fact that for several years now he hasn't been a volume or efficient scorer like he was before then, all while getting feasted on while on defense?

I feel like it is not a stretch to say that the IT now does not resemble the one that put up those numbers you are using to justify loving him.
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#99 » by BullyKing » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:53 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Phila Tough wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
While I agree that Burks was a solid acquisition, I do recognize that second round picks are important for this teams future. We need to hit on some of them for depth, or even guys like Shake who have been incredible for us as a second rounder.


We have enough young talent. And we haven't really hit on any 2nd round picks outside of Richuan Holmes these past few years. I rather cash them in for impact players right now. How many 2nd round picks do we have left?


Right, but we're not committed to Pelle, Burke (who might be gone anyway), O'Quinn, or Neto beyond this year. Jonah Bolden is clearly a lost cause. James Ennis and Zhaire are moveable assets. This roster is not static. Young players come and go.

I'm not going to present the same tired argument about the Raptors, but there's a reason they are still relevant post Kawhi. It's because they kept trying to find overlooked players with star upside.


I think this is a different argument though. I am the first person to agree with the general statement that the way Colangelo and Brand have literally thrown away seconds is the height of stupidity. But acting like we should be using four second picks a year is way too far to the opposite extreme. We should definitely be taking swings in the second like the Raptors but the three remaining second round picks we have this year seems sufficient for that no?
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Re: Welcome Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson III 

Post#100 » by VDT » Thu Feb 6, 2020 5:57 pm

I think Brand is an idiot but complaining about some second round picks doesn't make sense to me. For one the team tries to win now and in the next few years. Even in the off chance that you draft well a second round draft pick will be years away from contributing anything.

Using them for short term improvement is probably a better use, especially when we are talking about late second round picks which we could buy during the draft. In any case these picks form a value point of view are meaningless, even if we gifted them to the Warriors it wouldnt change anything.

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