IF Horford goes to the bench....

[tsmith]

No one could have seen the resurgence of Dwight based on what he did last season. If you tell me that Dwight will backup Embiid and also replace him when he is out based on his last season performance, Elton would have been fired on the spot. Holmes is also not a starting quality center, not for a contender anyway. What we needed was not just a backup center, but also a spot starter in case of an Embiid injury.

So we used all our money on a potential replacement for injury for our star player instead of using it to put strong pieces around him. That my friend is a waste.

You didn't want old or inexperienced player as a backup center but you also don't want to pay premium for the said role? How many players fit your description of young enough and have experience centers that is also cost effective? What I am trying to say is don't just think of Horford's contract as a backup center or just for Embiid's replacement. He got that contract because he is both.

Just an example, GSW signed Igoudala for 48M/4 years as their backup SF to Barnes and a starter in some games. In 2013, Igoudala is earning 12M/year and the capspace at that time is only 58M. Scale that to today's capspace (109M) and the 12M is now worth around 22M. By your logic, GSW wasted all of that money on Igoudala when they could have split the money into 2 or 3 players that time.

You're focusing too heavily on the fact that I said old and inexperienced and completely disregarding that an adequate centre was the major point. There were gettable players that didn't cost 100 million dollars that would be able to come off the bench for 15-10 minutes in a playoff game and not have double digit leads evaporate. Howard and Holmes are examples of this.

[LloydFree]

Horford doesnt really have a role on this team, particularly when playing a team like the Clippers whose stars are jump shooting wings. If we could have acquired someone that can actually play with the starting lineup the ceiling of the team would be considerably higher.

His role on this team is when Embiid is out (like he has been 10+ times) the team still has a chance to win. How soon we forget. Minus 10 in 2 minutes of game 7, without Embiid.

The 76ers don't win the Lakers game or the last home game against the Celtics without Horford. They probably get their behinds kicked last night, without Horford, because Embiid got into early foul trouble. It's easy to see they haven't played well together on the court. But to say Horford has no role is incorrect, and we all knew what his PRIMARY role was always going to be, when he was signed. He's Embiid insurance.

[mithrandir17]

So we used all our money on a potential replacement for injury for our star player instead of using it to put strong pieces around him. That my friend is a waste.

You didn't want old or inexperienced player as a backup center but you also don't want to pay premium for the said role? How many players fit your description of young enough and have experience centers that is also cost effective? What I am trying to say is don't just think of Horford's contract as a backup center or just for Embiid's replacement. He got that contract because he is both.

Just an example, GSW signed Igoudala for 48M/4 years as their backup SF to Barnes and a starter in some games. In 2013, Igoudala is earning 12M/year and the capspace at that time is only 58M. Scale that to today's capspace (109M) and the 12M is now worth around 22M. By your logic, GSW wasted all of that money on Igoudala when they could have split the money into 2 or 3 players that time.

Baynes?

I mean we had Boban and Monroe last year, it is not hard to find a better defensive big who can maybe even space the floor a bit. Even undersized center would be fine. It's not like he will be asked to guard Shaq.

Baynes was not a free agent. He was traded to the Suns.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Horford coming off the bench fixes a lot of issues for us. Don't be surprised if we start winning a ton of games, and don't be surprised to see an Embiid resurgence because of it.
If I'm picking a replacement for Embiid, it almost has to be Korkmaz or Glenn Robinson. Burks is a 6th man, Matisse might be an option, but for me, the best shooter should get the start and that is Korkmaz. I just hate that he can erupt for 35 one night and drop a bagel the next. Either way, Brett has his hands full, but letting Horford come off the bench solves a lot of current issues.

[Aussiepiston1]

You dont pay someone close to 30 mil to be a good bench player.

It significantly lowers the ceiling of the team compared to having a player that could fit with the starting lineup. This is exacerbated in the playoffs where Embiid will play more minutes. What are we going to do then, play him with Embiid for significant stretches of the game or play him 5-10 minutes per game?

Ibaka and Gasol say hi mate

Absolutely the Raptors would prefer to have a player that can play with the starting and closing lineup, it's a no brainer. The fact that they won doesnt change that. And Ibaka gets significantly less money, Horford's salary is close to what you would be paying a star player (he is getting more than Embiid). If the SIxers could get a cheap back up center like Baynes and invest 30 mil to improve their starting/closing lineup their ceiling would be much higher.

You’re playing the what if game and I’m saying what is mate.
The raptors won with 2 bigs backing each other up getting paid 23 and 25 mil and you have no idea what they prefer because they kept both players.
Embiid and Joel get paid slightly more and were designed to play together which isn’t working because of Ben, So you keep living in your fantasy imagining we could have done this and that but I prefer to live in reality and accept what is.

[VDT]

Horford doesnt really have a role on this team, particularly when playing a team like the Clippers whose stars are jump shooting wings. If we could have acquired someone that can actually play with the starting lineup the ceiling of the team would be considerably higher.

His role on this team is when Embiid is out (like he has been 10+ times) the team still has a chance to win. How soon we forget. Minus 10 in 2 minutes of game 7, without Embiid.

The 76ers don't win the Lakers game or the last home game against the Celtics without Horford. They probably get their behinds kicked last night, without Horford, because Embiid got into early foul trouble. It's easy to see they haven't played well together on the court. But to say Horford has no role is incorrect, and we all knew what his PRIMARY role was always going to be, when he was signed. He's Embiid insurance.

This doesnt raise the team ceiling though and it's more of a regular season thing. If Embiid doesnt play in the playoffs we dont win anyway. The point is not to become better, but still not nearly good enough, when Embiid doesnt play but to win if Embiid plays. And being a back up when you are getting close to 30 mil is not really a role. With this kind of money you want to maximize your starting/closing lineup and raise the playoff ceiling of the team, not get an insurance that from a title winning point of view is largely irrelevant anyway.

[VDT]

You didn't want old or inexperienced player as a backup center but you also don't want to pay premium for the said role? How many players fit your description of young enough and have experience centers that is also cost effective? What I am trying to say is don't just think of Horford's contract as a backup center or just for Embiid's replacement. He got that contract because he is both.

Just an example, GSW signed Igoudala for 48M/4 years as their backup SF to Barnes and a starter in some games. In 2013, Igoudala is earning 12M/year and the capspace at that time is only 58M. Scale that to today's capspace (109M) and the 12M is now worth around 22M. By your logic, GSW wasted all of that money on Igoudala when they could have split the money into 2 or 3 players that time.

Baynes?

I mean we had Boban and Monroe last year, it is not hard to find a better defensive big who can maybe even space the floor a bit. Even undersized center would be fine. It's not like he will be asked to guard Shaq.

Baynes was not a free agent. He was traded to the Suns.

So?

We were allowed to make trades.

[phillynative]

Start kork if hes cold bring in glenrob .

I think glenrob can fill in nicely with his cutting , size and corner 3. He could be more steady than our younger wings. Mattise is a more dynamic defender and Furkan shooter but they can be erratic.

Maybe glenrob can give us a steady medium at the wing.

[freshie2]

Horford as the bench big is perfect. Expensive luxury, but he is more a 5 in today's NBA than a 4. They still can go with both for stints, but having one of either he or Embiid on the floor all the time give the Sixers a solid edge at that position against the majority if matchups. Burks and Robinson will be very nice fits as well, and insurance against the intermittent Josh Rich injury.

[mithrandir17]

Baynes?

I mean we had Boban and Monroe last year, it is not hard to find a better defensive big who can maybe even space the floor a bit. Even undersized center would be fine. It's not like he will be asked to guard Shaq.

Baynes was not a free agent. He was traded to the Suns.

So?

We were allowed to make trades.

Based from what I know, you have to send other assets/player in a trade, so it is not the same as signing a player.

Would you be willing to trade a future 1st round pick for baynes? Because that is what the celtics got for him.

[freshie2]

Start kork if hes cold bring in glenrob .

I think glenrob can fill in nicely with his cutting , size and corner 3. He could be more steady than our younger wings. Mattise is a more dynamic defender and Furkan shooter but they can be erratic.

Maybe glenrob can give us a steady medium at the wing.

Robinson is definitely a better fit as a starter. Would expect that to be the end result of this tweaking, with Burks, Furkan, Thybulle, Horford as the core bench.

[VDT]

Baynes was not a free agent. He was traded to the Suns.

So?

We were allowed to make trades.

Based from what I know, you have to send other assets/player in a trade, so it is not the same as signing a player.

Would you be willing to trade a future 1st round pick for baynes? Because that is what the celtics got for him.

They salary dumped him, they didnt want any value for him. And Baynes is just an example.

[mithrandir17]

So?

We were allowed to make trades.

Based from what I know, you have to send other assets/player in a trade, so it is not the same as signing a player.

Would you be willing to trade a future 1st round pick for baynes? Because that is what the celtics got for him.

They salary dumped him, they didnt want any value for him. And Baynes is just an example.

As if Ainge will just trade his players with nothing in return. They got a late first round pick for him. What part of that said that they didn't want any value for him. And with his history with trading with the sixers, I bet he'll ask for 2 first round picks for Baynes.

[VDT]

Based from what I know, you have to send other assets/player in a trade, so it is not the same as signing a player.

Would you be willing to trade a future 1st round pick for baynes? Because that is what the celtics got for him.

They salary dumped him, they didnt want any value for him. And Baynes is just an example.

As if Ainge will just trade his players with nothing in return. They got a late first round pick for him. What part of that said that they didn't want any value for him. And with his history with trading with the sixers, I bet he'll ask for 2 first round picks for Baynes.

They Celtics sent Baynes and the 24th pick and got the Milwakee 2020 pick. If anything they gave up value.

[Skates]

Starters - GRIII, Tobias, Embiid, JRich and Simmons

Bench - Horford, Burks, Kork and Thybulle

They won't completely play as units, but will mix add match with the starters, and the can form a 9 man playoff rotation with a few other guys getting minutes here and there during the rest of the regular season.

Horford supplementing Embiid, keeping Jojo fresh and energetic and giving the team top notch big man defense and some scoring when Embiid is out is exactly what Brand intended and wanted after the huge on/off numbers with Embiid last year, he just expected too much of Horford and probably could have gotten a cheaper guy to do that in a pure reserve role, but bet on the two fitting together as starters and that hasn't worked.

That rotation allows Brown to play matchups like he did last night, to cover for guys in foul trouble, and we typically foul a lot on the road where our physical D does not get the calls going its way, to go with the hot hand when Kork or JRich or Burks heat up, and to allow the big three in Embiid, Simmons and Harris to be maximized with spacing and complementary pieces that play to their strengths and supplement their weaknesses. GRIII and Burks come from a system where you never stop moving and cutting, and when the Sixers sink on the road, when they stagnated last night, that was why....and Brown called an immediate TO to get them moving again.

Did we pay too much for Horford and his role? Yes, but that is a sunk cost, and it doesn't mean Horford isn't a near perfect fit. He is, just not as a starter with Ben and Jo, and not for that much cash and cap space. The former has been rectified and so what if he is overpaid for this year, they still avoided the tax and that stuff can be dealt with in the offseason. I love Horford in his new role as much as I hated seeing him as a starter, and to be truthful the lower number of minutes allows him to have fresher legs and more energy too.

I would not be surprised for a moment if they go on a tear for the rest of the season, easy schedule, two nice deadline additions, Simons and Korkmaz taking a step up and enough bench scorers that on most nights at least one of them will be hot, plus no dead zones on defense.

[Kobblehead]

Brett Brown still being apprehensive about making a clean break from the Embiid/Horford pairing annoys me. He still slipped up a few times in the 2nd half and put them out there together. Usually signaled a small Clippers run, too.

[youngcrev]

I don't even care if he just wants to use that 5th spot as a flex position based on matchups and how well guys are playing.

[VDT]

If he were to do that, it would mean that Horford would play 15 min per game and even less in the postseason.

Not that you are wrong but it's a hard thing to do for someone that gets 30 mil and was your free agent acquisition last summer.

[Kobblehead]

If he were to do that, it would mean that Horford would play 15 min per game and even less in the postseason.

Not that you are wrong but it's a hard thing to do for someone that gets 30 mil and was your free agent acquisition last summer.

Perfect. Just highlights what a dumb and illogical signing it was in the first place. I'd fire Brown/Brand after the season off the basis of that signing, no matter what (along with other reasons, as well, of course). But I'd at least appreciate them admitting their colossal mistake by taking him out of the lineup and limiting him to the vet minimum role, going forward.

[76ciology]

I don't follow. What's the common theme?

And what's Embiid's different role? Getting under the basket and forcing the other team to foul him?

Everybody sacrificing for the team. That’s the common theme.

Im not seeing Joel and Ben sacrificing, and luckily they don’t have to: they are the stars.

You didn’t notice that Biid is shooting more and posting up less? You want me to give you the numbers?

For Ben, he lived multiple seasons in a Biid centric offense where he’s reduced as a player who brings down the ball and just roam the dunker spot. He was the odd man our last season with Jimmy and Jj complimenting Biid.