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Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season

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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1561 » by youngcrev » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:06 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Okay, it's more fun to watch, but it's still not a solution to the end goal.

You need to be able to put the ball on the floor and score off the dribble to go deep in the playoffs. Buddy Hield can't score off the dribble and he can't play defense. He's offering nothing by way of the two most important playoff traits so why are we even wasting our time?


Miami has still managed to be effective with their DHO stuff in the playoffs. They also have Jimmy and Dragic to give you off the dribble scoring, which I agree is more important in the playoffs, but I still think it's a plus. I don't think Bam would be as successful as he has been without those shooters. It also makes life easier on your off the dribble scorer if you can open up the lane more. Come playoff time teams seem fine with leaving mediocre shooters wide open and living with the results.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1562 » by Kobblehead » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:10 pm

skulky wrote:I don’t know about Dennis Smith jr, he’s been so bad in the league, and I don’t see the Lowry comparison. His shooting numbers are scary bad. He’s shooting 64.7% from the line for his career and 31 from 3. With bad offensive efficiency and lots of injuries.
Maybe if it’s a Mike Scott swap since he’s only on the hook for next year and an option for year after. I just don’t think he’s shown that he really belongs in the league.

I think Smith has such a strong skillset, though. In my eyes, he's the perfect prospect to try to reclaim. Despite all his efficiency struggles on the offensive end, he's been a very strong defender from the moment he entered the league. I'm willing to be more patient with young players that struggle to score efficiently as long as they're d'ing up on the other end.

If Smith just doesn't have it from the neck-up to fulfill his potential and he flames out, then so be it. But the potential reward is pretty high. And the asking price (I'm assuming) would be relatively low.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1563 » by youngcrev » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:16 pm

TTP wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
TTP wrote:I'd do whatever it took to get the framework of a Horford for CP3 trade going, even if it took another team or two to get a deal done. I don't think a single player we could reasonably bring in increases our championship equity more than CP3 over the next couple years, and it's important to capitalize on the immediate future with Embiid's long-term status uncertain both with his body and with potential trade demands.

CP3 just had another excellent season and I'm going to bet on one of the greatest point guards of all time to continue to play at a high level even at his age - he's incredibly cerebral and would just be exactly what we need. He'd solve our turnover issues and our lack of creation issues. He spaces excellently and still defends well. Load manage the hell out of him to preserve his health if you need to.

I have no idea what the cost would be, but I'm guessing Matisse and/or some future 1sts. If we're serious about being a contender, we have to pay it to get out of this ridiculous hole that we shouldn't be in. It's going to be tricky to find a third team willing to take on Horford though.

Then try to run Simmons in the Blake role and replicate some lob city.


What if they say we'll give you Paul, but we want Tobias, Matisse, and your 2022 1st round pick with no protection on it (I think that's the first year high school players are projected to be able to come out). Would you make that deal?


Probably but I’d explain the plan to Embiid and Simmons first to see if they’re on board. Ideally would rather move Horford though. I’d also try to get the ownership on board with buying an early 2nd or two if we move any 1sts.


I think we already have some projected early 2nds in the pipeline (and probably end up with some more after they kick the can on a couple of this years - if they don't sell them).

I'd be on board with most iterations of CP3 to Philly (been pushing for it since about 1 month into the Al Horford experience). I presume with Elton it'll be something that hurts a little more than I'd like.

But yeah, I think he's probably the only player that they can realistically get that could potentially make them a contender. CP3/Simmons PnR could be crazy (and I think Ben developing as a roll man is the best possible way to make him an effective half court player)
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1564 » by Kobblehead » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:25 pm

youngcrev wrote:Miami has still managed to be effective with their DHO stuff in the playoffs. They also have Jimmy and Dragic to give you off the dribble scoring, which I agree is more important in the playoffs, but I still think it's a plus. I don't think Bam would be as successful as he has been without those shooters. It also makes life easier on your off the dribble scorer if you can open up the lane more. Come playoff time teams seem fine with leaving mediocre shooters wide open and living with the results.

Sure, spacing is obviously beneficial. It's a supplemental trait, though. It's not a trait you focus on before you have the more important playoff traits (scoring off the dribble, defense), in my eyes.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1565 » by youngcrev » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:30 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Miami has still managed to be effective with their DHO stuff in the playoffs. They also have Jimmy and Dragic to give you off the dribble scoring, which I agree is more important in the playoffs, but I still think it's a plus. I don't think Bam would be as successful as he has been without those shooters. It also makes life easier on your off the dribble scorer if you can open up the lane more. Come playoff time teams seem fine with leaving mediocre shooters wide open and living with the results.

Sure, spacing is obviously beneficial. It's a supplemental trait, though. It's not a trait you focus on before you have the more important playoff traits (scoring off the dribble, defense), in my eyes.


I think getting a primary perimeter option should be the priority, but adding a lights out shooter that you can run some 2 man action with is a not so distant 2nd for a team with 2 all stars that do their work in the paint.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1566 » by Kobblehead » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:40 pm

I'd rather have some guys that can shoot mid-to-uppers 30s from three while either being able to defend or score off the dribble than a guy that can shoot 40+ and do neither of those things. Shooting is too unreliable against playoff defense. Also, it's too short a sample size. What if your lights out shooter happens to be cold over a 3-5 game stretch (which often happens to shooters). Then he's giving you nothing ALL AROUND.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1567 » by youngcrev » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:51 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I'd rather have some guys that can shoot mid-to-uppers 30s from three while either being able to defend or score off the dribble than a guy that can shoot 40+ and do neither of those things. Shooting is too unreliable against playoff defense. Also, it's too short a sample size. What if your lights out shooter happens to be cold over a 3-5 game stretch (which often happens to shooters). Then he's giving you nothing ALL AROUND.


Doesn't that work the other way around though too? What if your shooter is lights out over that short period and you get series turning level production out of them?

I think regardless of whether they are making shots, high level shooters still provide spacing, while if your defensive mid 30s from 3 guy is cold, teams have no problem just leaving them.

There's obviously a spectrum with this stuff. If you've got a shooter that's getting targeted to death on the other end of the floor, that's obviously not very helpful.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1568 » by Kobblehead » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:05 pm

youngcrev wrote:Doesn't that work the other way around though too? What if your shooter is lights out over that short period and you get series turning level production out of them?

I think regardless of whether they are making shots, high level shooters still provide spacing, while if your defensive mid 30s from 3 guy is cold, teams have no problem just leaving them.

There's obviously a spectrum with this stuff. If you've got a shooter that's getting targeted to death on the other end of the floor, that's obviously not very helpful.


Yeah, but anyone can get red hot over a short sample size. So why put your eggs in the basket of a shooter? Norman Powell (defense) shot the same as Gary Trent (no other traits) in the playoffs this year. One was obviously more impactful than the other.

Even if my defensive player is ice cold from three, he's still providing major playoff value with his other trait. What happened when Doug McDermott went cold (20% from three)? They couldn't even play him.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1569 » by Kobblehead » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:09 pm

I mean, we just watched Korkmaz and Scott shoot 0% from three and possess no playoff traits. We saw defensive zero with poor creating abilities Tobias Harris shoot 13% from three. All three of these guys were playoff zeros because they provide nothing outside of shooting. So why target players whose only trait is unreliable and not that impactful for playoff basketball? Buddy Hield would give us nothing unless he was red hot. And even if he was red hot, we still won't be able to score off the dribble in the halfcourt on a crucial possession and we still would have a switch liability just begging to be targeted on the other end of said crucial possession.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1570 » by youngcrev » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:38 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Doesn't that work the other way around though too? What if your shooter is lights out over that short period and you get series turning level production out of them?

I think regardless of whether they are making shots, high level shooters still provide spacing, while if your defensive mid 30s from 3 guy is cold, teams have no problem just leaving them.

There's obviously a spectrum with this stuff. If you've got a shooter that's getting targeted to death on the other end of the floor, that's obviously not very helpful.


Yeah, but anyone can get red hot over a short sample size. So why put your eggs in the basket of a shooter? Norman Powell (defense) shot the same as Gary Trent (no other traits) in the playoffs this year. One was obviously more impactful than the other.

Even if my defensive player is ice cold from three, he's still providing major playoff value with his other trait. What happened when Doug McDermott went cold (20% from three)? They couldn't even play him.


Norman Powell was a high volume 40% from 3 guy this year, so I don't really see the point there (though he's another guy that would look great in a Sixers uniform).

I don't see any issues with looking at preferable archetypes in a macro sense, but I do think you've got to look at these guys on a case by case basis.

In general, I think shooting and defense are the top qualities you should be looking at in your role players, while leaning on your stars as high usage guys. Guys like Korkmaz are unplayable in the playoffs because they get targeted to death on defense and don't provide enough offensive impact to counteract that. On the flip side, guys like Kidd Gilchrist kill you on the other end of the ball because you end up playing 4 on 5.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1571 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:18 pm

Over the years I have fought with Kobblehead on numerous topics, but he is absolutely right about this. You can't hide Furkan Korkmaz in a playoff setting because he simply just cannot defend. Now he's only 22, so he may eventually get better, but we could do nothing with him in the playoffs and therefore all that awesome shooting we saw from him during the regular season didn't mean a thing in that environment. I think it's easier to hide a good on ball defender that can't shoot then it is to hide a shooter that can't defend. If i'm picking which player to have on the floor for in the playoffs between Korkmaz and Kidd-Gilchrist, then i'm taking my chances with Kidd-Gilchrist and i'm going to let him take an open three if need be. At least he's not getting murdered on defense. Just to follow that up, it would be easier to play bully ball with Embiid and Simmons IF we were able to get stops on the other end.
The Lakers/Rockets series should be a clear indicator of how important defense and matchups are. I know some of you were on the Rockets bandwagon after game one, but LA has dominated that series the rest of the way and they've done it with incredible defensive play. I have never seen James Harden look so confused on a basketball court. He looked like a rookie the other night against that Laker D. In fact none of Houstons big guns have been able to do anything aside from game one.
Now being able to create in the halfcourt is absolutely necessary in the playoffs, but if you don't have a player that is good at that, then you better have a very good defensive team with players that are versatile enough to switch in the PnR and a solid rim protector. We don't have an off the bounce type of player, but we do have a good rim protector in Embiid, and we have versatile defenders in Thybulle, and Simmons. It would be nice to add Josh Jackson and Michael Kidd Gilchrist this offseason along with a scorer like Tyler Johnson. ANYTHING from Zhaire Smith would be nice too. The guy was supposed to be exactly the type of defender we need when we drafted him.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1572 » by Kobblehead » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:10 pm

youngcrev wrote:Norman Powell was a high volume 40% from 3 guy this year, so I don't really see the point there (though he's another guy that would look great in a Sixers uniform).


In the case of Norman Powell, shooting was an acquired trait.

Through 4 years at U.C.L.A.: 0.8 made threes per game at 31.4%
Through 3 years in the NBA: 0.7 made threes per game at 32.4%

And OG Annunoby was an even bigger shooting zero as a prospect and has shot 40% in back to back playoffs.

Same thing with Jaylen Brown.

Don't chase shooting. Chase defenders and/or shotcreators and teach them how to shoot.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1573 » by Arsenal » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:25 pm

https://tradenba.com/trades/z5P1s0TrK

PHI OUT: Harris + Horford + 2020 #36
PHI IN: Paul + Zeller
PHI WHY: Get our point god and get a backup big who is expiring to help get our payroll under control. Payroll goes down $5M in 20-21 so this may get us out of the tax?

Lineup:
PG Paul | Shake
SG JRich | Kork
SF Thybulle
PF Simmons | Scott
CE Embiid | Zeller

CHA OUT: Rozier + Batum + Zeller
CHA IN: Harris + Horford
CHA WHY: Get two good veteran fits to help the culture and pursue a playoff spot. They decide they have enough youth after taking Ball at #3 overall.

Lineup:
PG Ball | Monk
SG Graham | Bacon
SF PJ | Bridges
PF Harris | McDaniels
CE Horford

OKC OUT: Paul
OKC IN: Rozier + Batum + 2020 #36
OKC WHY: Get another young PG to grow with the team, reduce long-term salary, plus tank.

Lineup:
PG Rozier | Schroder
SG SGA
SF Dort | Ferguson
PF Bazley
CE Adams | Muscala
#ThankYouSam | #TrustTheProcess
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1574 » by youngcrev » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:25 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Norman Powell was a high volume 40% from 3 guy this year, so I don't really see the point there (though he's another guy that would look great in a Sixers uniform).


In the case of Norman Powell, shooting was an acquired trait.

Through 4 years at U.C.L.A.: 0.8 made threes per game at 31.4%
Through 3 years in the NBA: 0.7 made threes per game at 32.4%

And OG Annunoby was an even bigger shooting zero as a prospect and has shot 40% in back to back playoffs.

Same thing with Jaylen Brown.

Don't chase shooting. Chase defenders and/or shotcreators and teach them how to shoot.


You sure we follow the same team? :wink:
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1575 » by Mik317 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:29 pm

yeah I always think Kobble exaggerates a bit but even I can't go against the grain here.

we have too many specialists who aren't special at that thing and thus often give us **** all elsewhere lol. I love the Korklord but when his shot is off...he is just food out there ( I do wonder if he doesn't have some shot creation ability that Brett didn't allow him to try tho).

defense and shot creation is more consistant than shooting (barring injury of course)
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1576 » by Kobblehead » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:31 pm

youngcrev wrote:You sure we follow the same team? :wink:


Right, but Brett Brown and his staff's developmental failures can't dissuade us from making smart decisions regarding our acquisition targets. We have to stay diligent and keep choosing the right kind of guys that can help us in the playoffs (defense and/or shotcreating). Shooting will either develop or it won't. There's still a chance a guy can get hot in a small sample size.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1577 » by zimpy27 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:53 pm

Trade Harris for FVV with an S+T.
Trade Horford and J-Rich for Jrue and Melli

FVV, Jrue, Thybulle, Simmons, Embiid
Milton, Burks, Smith, Scott, Melli
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1578 » by VDT » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:25 pm

Toronto doesnt want Harris, the have Anubody and Siakam.

FVV is overrated and is likely going to be overpaid. He is also not a good fit for the Sixers. He needs teams that play a fast tempo, up and down basketball. In the Sixers more static offense he wouldnt look good imo.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1579 » by 51X3RF4N » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:37 pm

Can someone just call Elton already and let him know we are down with Rozier and Zeller for Horford and Scott please?
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1580 » by ankle420breaker » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:28 pm

Chicago (Porter), Memphis (Anderson), Charlotte (Batum/Rozier), Detroit (Griffin), Cleveland (Love), Washington (Wall), Orlando (Fournier/Aminu) are probably the only realistic trade partners for Harris.

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