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Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season

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youngcrev
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#501 » by youngcrev » Fri May 22, 2020 8:27 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
It would be tough to win with how bad our defense would be though. I'd trade either Thybulle or Richardson, but not both. Harris + Thybulle + OKC 1st for Beal?

Simmons(24)/Milton(20)/Beal(4)
Beal(30)/Korkmaz(18)
Richardson(33)/Smith(15)
MLE(28)/Simmons(10)/Horford(10)
Embiid(30)/Horford(18)


If you can get Beal without giving up Embiid or Simmons (I don't think they have enough), you do it and figure out your supporting cast later.


Normally, I would agree with this principle but JRich and Thybulle are probably two of the top-10 the best perimeter defenders in the league. Beal has been a huge negative on defense since his rookie year, we have to pair him with someone really good to win a championship.

Edit: one big hold-up for Beal is his injury history though. A team with Embiid, Beal, Richardson has some serious health concerns.


He's missed 12 games total in the past 4 seasons. I think he's beyond the injury concerns that were talked about around the time he signed his contract.

The Wizards are an awful defensive team. I don't think that's Beal's fault. I'm also not all that worried about defense from a primary scoring perimeter option, particularly when my other 2 stars are elite defenders.

Richardson and Thybulle are nice role players and if you could keep one, great, but defensive role players are nowhere near as difficult to acquire as actual star players. You put together your big 3 and then figure things out from there. It's not even like you'd be looking at a tight window to compete.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#502 » by youngcrev » Fri May 22, 2020 8:47 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I'd like to think I'm appropriately rating his shotcreation ability. I really don't think he's that strong, in that regard. He wasn't at Florida, either.

For his career, he's been assisted on 45% of his field goals inside the arc and 79% of his field goals beyond the arc. He's creating at a higher level now, but he's still not some elite closer type that you give the ball and expect to get his in the halfcourt against a playoff defense.

For reference:

Fox: 17% assisted inside, 56% assisted outside
Mitchell: 23% assisted inside, 61% assisted outside
Holiday: 26% assisted inside, 59% assisted outside

All three of those players create shots at a far higher frequency than Bradley Beal. And obviously they all play better defense than him.


I feel like you're doing some serious gymnastics here by going by percentage assisted and career numbers. He's scoring a considerably higher volume on better efficiency than all of those guys. He's got way more unassisted field goals than Fox or Jrue this year, so you're basically just using his scoring versatility against him. Having someone that can score on and off the ball at a high level is exactly what they should be looking for with Embiid and Simmons.

He's 2nd among the 4 in PnR possessions. Runs more iso than all of them. Runs more DHOs than anyone in the league.

Outside of the truly elite superstar guys, it's hard to find a guy that would fit better.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#503 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 22, 2020 9:25 pm

Scoring on the ball at a high level? Bradley Beal? Giving him the on/off scoring label is acceptable. but please do not claim that he is some kind of shotcreator that strikes fear in the hearts of playoff defenders. He's okay, at best, on the ball. Same thing with Devin Booker. 80% of the effectiveness of these guys is tied to their shooting. They are not elite halfcourt threats.

Also, I think fit is becoming an extremely overrated quality. Get strong shotcreators that defend at a high level on the other end. Don't settle for on/off scorers with no defensive commitment. We'll ultimately go nowhere.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#504 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 22, 2020 9:44 pm

Jimmy Butler was the right idea, IMO. No regard for spacing and who cares?

Strong defender that can create/score a bit. Winning player.

Let's chase that.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#505 » by SparksFly87 » Fri May 22, 2020 10:03 pm

Jrue and Redick for Josh Richardson, Horford , Zhaire and picks.
Or

Horford ,Zhaire and future picks for Hield.

Keep Richardson.

These are the deals I'm into.

1. Keeping plus defenders and only exchanging for Plus defenders who are better fits. . 2. Maintaining core guys-fits while adding shooting.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#506 » by SparksFly87 » Fri May 22, 2020 11:54 pm

Anybody want to gamble on Wiggins and Looney for Horford and Josh Richardson trade.

Love to load up on talent and dog it out with Wiggins upside and get a back up in Looney. MJ 90's bulls vibes.
Embiid
Tobias
Thybulle
Wiggins
Simmons

Warriors with JRich and Horford in the starting lineup become a favorite in the west.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#507 » by youngcrev » Sat May 23, 2020 12:47 am

SparksFly87 wrote:Anybody want to gamble on Wiggins and Looney for Horford and Josh Richardson trade.

Love to load up on talent and dog it out with Wiggins upside and get a back up in Looney. MJ 90's bulls vibes.
Embiid
Tobias
Thybulle
Wiggins
Simmons

Warriors with JRich and Horford in the starting lineup become a favorite in the west.


No. Maybe with a pick swap. Maybe.

Josh Richardson is a better basketball player than Wiggins, and Horford/Looney isn't close. Substantial talent grade without improving your salary.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#508 » by SparksFly87 » Sat May 23, 2020 2:07 am

What's up with Josh Richardson for Hield ...

Than we can move Horford and 1st for Covington and Tucker.

Embiid / M. Scott
Harris/ Tucker
Covington/ Thybulle
Hield/ Korkmaz
Simmons / Shake
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#509 » by darmani » Sat May 23, 2020 8:14 am

Kobblehead wrote:Scoring on the ball at a high level? Bradley Beal? Giving him the on/off scoring label is acceptable. but please do not claim that he is some kind of shotcreator that strikes fear in the hearts of playoff defenders. He's okay, at best, on the ball. Same thing with Devin Booker. 80% of the effectiveness of these guys is tied to their shooting. They are not elite halfcourt threats.

This is utter nonsense. Shooting is about the 10th most important part of Booker's game. This season he attempted only 5.6 threes per game, which is less than Siakam, LeBron, Ingram or Kawhi.

Read on Twitter
"Can’t talk basketball with everybody" - Devin Booker
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#510 » by youngcrev » Sat May 23, 2020 12:38 pm

SparksFly87 wrote:What's up with Josh Richardson for Hield ...

Than we can move Horford and 1st for Covington and Tucker.

Embiid / M. Scott
Harris/ Tucker
Covington/ Thybulle
Hield/ Korkmaz
Simmons / Shake


Hield makes about 14M more than Josh next year, so you'd need to make up that salary somehow.

Can't imagine the Rockets would take Horford without moving Eric Gordon's deal. And even then, I'd be pretty surprised if they were willing to give up Covington.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#511 » by Kobblehead » Sat May 23, 2020 2:38 pm

darmani wrote:Shooting is about the 10th most important part of Booker's game.

THIS is utter nonsense. If he didn't have his jumper, Devin Booker would just be some unathletic, pudgy defensive zero with mediocre ball handling.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#512 » by Kobblehead » Sat May 23, 2020 5:08 pm

Hard to imagine we'll find another potential savior like Butler during the basketball lifespan of the Embiid/Simmons duo. Probably have to focus on the margins.

Let's find winning pieces on losing team to acquire.

Suns: (Rubio, Bridges)
Bulls: (Porter, Young)
Spurs: (Murray)
Timberwolves: (Okogie)
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#513 » by SparksFly87 » Sun May 24, 2020 4:33 pm

I would try to offer Josh Richardson , Zhiare Smith and a pick for Hield this summer . Possibly keep Horford.

I think we can really use the high volume shooter/ scorer in our current core as long as we don’t lose what makes us have the edge in the playoffs with the big line up / Embiid insurance in Horford.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#514 » by youngcrev » Sun May 24, 2020 8:13 pm

SparksFly87 wrote:I would try to offer Josh Richardson , Zhiare Smith and a pick for Hield this summer . Possibly keep Horford.

I think we can really use the high volume shooter/ scorer in our current core as long as we don’t lose what makes us have the edge in the playoffs with the big line up / Embiid insurance in Horford.


Not enough salary
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#515 » by youngcrev » Sun May 24, 2020 8:31 pm

Time for the monthly "no matter how many other trade ideas I look at, Chris Paul is the one that makes the most sense." Highest impact, lowest value name out there that they could realistically get with what they have to offer. I think Horford/Richardson is enough value to get a deal done, just requires a 3rd team looking to win-now to take them.

Chris Paul | Vasilje Micic (yeah, I said it)
Shake Milton | Mattise Thybulle
Tobias Harris | Furkan Korkmaz
Ben Simmons | Mike Scott
Joel Embiid | ? (best veteran they can get)
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#516 » by SixthStreet » Mon May 25, 2020 1:51 am

I think the only realistic target to really give the offense the flow and spacing until Ben's game evolves is Rubio. I'd overpay in terms of actual value to get him. I don't know if he's still a good defender but he won't handicap you on that end and he shoots enough 3s (more than 1 3PA per 10 minutes of play) that his passing and playmaking plays in the postseason.

Salary matching may be difficult. Probably looking at Richardson and Smith going out. You get Rubio under contract for one more year than Richardson during which he should be at the peak of his skills. Richardson is going to get overpaid and I'm looking to move him for value this offseason no matter what.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#517 » by youngcrev » Mon May 25, 2020 3:06 am

SixthStreet wrote:I think the only realistic target to really give the offense the flow and spacing until Ben's game evolves is Rubio. I'd overpay in terms of actual value to get him. I don't know if he's still a good defender but he won't handicap you on that end and he shoots enough 3s (more than 1 3PA per 10 minutes of play) that his passing and playmaking plays in the postseason.

Salary matching may be difficult. Probably looking at Richardson and Smith going out. You get Rubio under contract for one more year than Richardson during which he should be at the peak of his skills. Richardson is going to get overpaid and I'm looking to move him for value this offseason no matter what.


I like Rubio and think he could be a helpful player pretty much anywhere, but he seems like a piss poor fit with Ben. Solid defender, great passer... But he's not a guy thats going to create a bunch of halfcourt offense for you, he's a poor, low volume outside shooter, he's not a PnR guy, not a scorer. Feels more like his strengths overlap Ben's rather than filling in the holes.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#518 » by SixthStreet » Mon May 25, 2020 4:13 am

I agree if we are talking about the Ben from last year and early this year. If Ben is who he played like from January onwards, and I'm inclined to believe that is his baseline moving forward if the injury is really in the rear view, then I think Rubio would be a stylistic fit. He could take on a lot of the halfcourt role Ben played earlier in the year and allow Simmons to do more of the defense wrecking he was starting to get more comfortable with.

I think Simmons mid-season evolution has widened the field of players that can work around him. He might smash the narrative altogether even without perimeter shooting the way he was trending.

I want more ball handling out of any addition. In theory, someone that offers more ball handling than Richardson does out of the other G position (especially because our other wing will be either Tobias, Korkmaz, or a non-ballhandling 3&D). I'm not a believer in Shake. I think he's looked better than he is because of unsustainable shooting and his quad-A athleticism is going to drown his effectiveness once his shooting numbers come back to earth. I'd look at him as a trade high candidate if there's someone that wants to part with a real asset for him since he's under the Hinkie special.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#519 » by youngcrev » Mon May 25, 2020 10:42 am

I hear you on wanting more ball handling and not fully buying in on Shake being the answer. I just think Rubio's offensive fit is a bit problematic with Simmons/Embiid. Just too reluctant of a shooter and not enough of a scoring threat. Especially if you're looking at Thybulle for that other guard spot.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#520 » by ProcessDoctor » Mon May 25, 2020 1:50 pm

Sounds like Beal won’t be available. Normally I wouldn’t believe these statements from agents/FOs. However, I think Beal and the Wizards actually want to stay together.

Really hoping one of Lavine, Booker, or Mitchell becomes available.
2019-2020 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Milton/Neto
Richardson/Korkmaz/Smith
Robinson/Burks/Thybulle
Harris/Scott
Embiid/Horford/Pelle/O’Quinn

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