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Joel Embiid

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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1441 » by phillynative » Wed Aug 4, 2021 7:36 am

76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:
How? With how bad our 5 man units are when Biid is off the floor.

It worthless to get a 28pt lead then later lose all the lead when he’s on the bench.

Thats why it doesnt matter to bring guys who fits Embiid well. You can turn Ben into a 40% spot up shooter and we’d still be losing games. Because the story will still be the same.

He misses around 20 games in an already shortened season.

In the playoffs, you dont know if he’s playing. And is bound to miss games. While the team can’t win even against a borderline playoff team like the Wizards.

And if he plays, you’re handed two versions of him which is a russian roulette.

If Biid is healthy spiritually:
We get big leads when Biid is on the floor.
We lose all the lead when Biid is off the floor.

The game gets close in crucial moments when the game favors the perimeter scorer.

If Biid is unhealthy spiritually:

He looks tired and lethargic. Immobile on defense, brick factory on offense.

He misses bunny on point blank to win you games.


I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. It's pretty obvious he needs a shot creator on the peremiter , to take the pressure off during games and during the closing moments of the game. Not a bunch of shooters who cannot do anything with the ball , not big men that occupy the same space he does. If we had a viable option like that you wouldn't have Embiid trying to close games out and create for himself as the only option.

The peremeter guy would have his space to take over and do what he needs to do and Embiid would have his space. Not 3 guys that like to occupy the same space.


Again it does not matter. Even if Ben is a 40% spot up shooter.

Even if you put CJ McCullom here as the shot creator it does not matter.

It only matters if you have Harden or Dame.

Because Embiid disappears randomly.

You need to build a team where Embiid can slide into a helper than a player that you build around.

If you build around Biid, your success lies with him and he’s just not reliable.

Btw read my previous post and ive updated to make u understand it better


Having a Harden or Damian Lillard would still be building around him and vice versa because they don't occupy the same areas on the floor nor have the same role. Do you think Embiid would still be creating from 18 feet out with those type of players on his team . Of course not . Sliding into a helper is no problem when you actually have help.

You showing me some of his lowlites lol doesn't really change my stance. He would be better at the end of games , if he didn't occupy the same space as the other two best players and if he didn't have to carry his team all game by creating for himself with no PG. He also would be better down the stretch, if he dropped weight, became a better passer and decision maker or was able to take a back seat to a peremeter player. That is what we are working with right now with Embiid, some he is at fault and some he is just not. Just because one thing is accurate doesn't mean the other isnt.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1442 » by yuuby » Wed Aug 4, 2021 7:45 am

Embiid hasn't signed or been offered the 4 year 195 million supermax. That is music to my ears. This team is not a contender as currently constructed and it is franchise suicide to pay a breaking down center that money in his age 30 to 33 seasons.

Hopefully we have realized that no one is giving up value for Simmons or Harris. Our only option to improve the long term title odds of this team is sell high on Embiid right now. He will be untradeable on the supermax.

76sociology makes great points but what he fails to articulate is there is no path to getting a player better than Embiid. So the logical conclusion is sell high on the 11th best player in the league before you sign him to a franchise crippling contract.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1443 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 4, 2021 8:01 am

yuuby wrote:Embiid hasn't signed or been offered the 4 year 195 million supermax. That is music to my ears. This team is not a contender as currently constructed and it is franchise suicide to pay a breaking down center that money in his age 30 to 33 seasons.

Hopefully we have realized that no one is giving up value for Simmons or Harris. Our only option to improve the long term title odds of this team is sell high on Embiid right now. He will be untradeable on the supermax.

76sociology makes great points but what he fails to articulate is there is no path to getting a player better than Embiid. So the logical conclusion is sell high on the 11th best player in the league before you sign him to a franchise crippling contract.


Thanks for understanding my position.

There are two ways

A breather. Its something Raps and GSW has done.

Get a high lotto pick, attach it with Ben then get an upgrade. Look at how GSW is shopping for a top tier star using Wiseman,7th and 14th. Or raps trying to trade for Ben. This is path is high risk in the short term but has a lower risk as time elapsed and the turnaround time is quicker.

Another way is this thing Morey is doing. Just accumulating assets on the side while competing. Then once a disgruntled star asks for a trade, he’d then offer everything including the kitchen sink for that guy. He has done it during the Harden deal. This path is less risky on the short term but the risk increases as time elapsed and takes a lot of time.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1444 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 4, 2021 8:12 am

phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:
I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. It's pretty obvious he needs a shot creator on the peremiter , to take the pressure off during games and during the closing moments of the game. Not a bunch of shooters who cannot do anything with the ball , not big men that occupy the same space he does. If we had a viable option like that you wouldn't have Embiid trying to close games out and create for himself as the only option.

The peremeter guy would have his space to take over and do what he needs to do and Embiid would have his space. Not 3 guys that like to occupy the same space.


Again it does not matter. Even if Ben is a 40% spot up shooter.

Even if you put CJ McCullom here as the shot creator it does not matter.

It only matters if you have Harden or Dame.

Because Embiid disappears randomly.

You need to build a team where Embiid can slide into a helper than a player that you build around.

If you build around Biid, your success lies with him and he’s just not reliable.

Btw read my previous post and ive updated to make u understand it better


Having a Harden or Damian Lillard would still be building around him and vice versa because they don't occupy the same areas on the floor nor have the same role. Do you think Embiid would still be creating from 18 feet out with those type of players on his team . Of course not . Sliding into a helper is no problem when you actually have help.

You showing me some of his lowlites lol doesn't really change my stance. He would be better at the end of games , if he didn't occupy the same space as the other two best players and if he didn't have to carry his team all game by creating for himself with no PG. He also would be better down the stretch, if he dropped weight, became a better passer and decision maker or was able to take a back seat to a peremeter player. That is what we are working with right now with Embiid, some he is at fault and some he is just not. Just because one thing is accurate doesn't mean the other isnt.


Ok.

Just to prove my point and im not saying i’d prefer this.

But replace Dame or Harden with Giannis.

Whereas Giannis can carry the team when Biid is off the floor. And Giannis’ scoring range is similar with Ben, so this takes away the “but occupying the same areas”.

Biid and Giannis on the floor, gets you big leads such as when Biid plays with Ben.

Biid is not playing, we’d still be able to get leads and win games shown by Giannis carrying the Bucks.

If Biid goes lethargic and goes absent spiritually, you can then try to win games with Giannis.

This is also why I’m OK with Siakam. But im not saying it’s my most preferred option.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1445 » by phillynative » Wed Aug 4, 2021 8:13 am

We went from if you can build around Embiid to Rebuilding all together. If your trading Embiid your obviously rebuilding and starting over that's not hard to understand at all. There's no "breather".
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1446 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 4, 2021 8:18 am

phillynative wrote:We went from if you can build around Embiid to Rebuilding all together. If your trading Embiid your obviously rebuilding and starting over that's not hard to understand at all. There's no "breather".


GSW and Raps still have Curry and Siakam. So you’re not really starting over. You’re just using time as a leverage to generate you assets.

Ive never said anything about trading Embiid during this discussion.

If your definition of rebuilding is more of re-structuring the team, then yes. You have to re-structure it that Embiid can be your redundant, like your second kidney. That if it ever fails, you have another kidney for you to survive.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1447 » by phillynative » Wed Aug 4, 2021 8:28 am

76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Again it does not matter. Even if Ben is a 40% spot up shooter.

Even if you put CJ McCullom here as the shot creator it does not matter.

It only matters if you have Harden or Dame.

Because Embiid disappears randomly.

You need to build a team where Embiid can slide into a helper than a player that you build around.

If you build around Biid, your success lies with him and he’s just not reliable.

Btw read my previous post and ive updated to make u understand it better


Having a Harden or Damian Lillard would still be building around him and vice versa because they don't occupy the same areas on the floor nor have the same role. Do you think Embiid would still be creating from 18 feet out with those type of players on his team . Of course not . Sliding into a helper is no problem when you actually have help.

You showing me some of his lowlites lol doesn't really change my stance. He would be better at the end of games , if he didn't occupy the same space as the other two best players and if he didn't have to carry his team all game by creating for himself with no PG. He also would be better down the stretch, if he dropped weight, became a better passer and decision maker or was able to take a back seat to a peremeter player. That is what we are working with right now with Embiid, some he is at fault and some he is just not. Just because one thing is accurate doesn't mean the other isnt.


Ok.

Just to prove my point and im not saying i’d prefer this.

But replace Dame or Harden with Giannis.

Whereas Giannis can carry the team when Biid is off the floor. And Giannis’ scoring range is similar with Ben, so this takes away the “but occupying the same areas”.

Biid and Giannis on the floor, gets you big leads such as when Biid plays with Ben.

Biid is not playing, we’d still be able to get leads and win games shown by Giannis carrying the Bucks.

If Biid goes lethargic and goes absent spiritually, you can then try to win games with Giannis.

This is also why I’m OK with Siakam. But im not saying it’s my most preferred option.


I get what your saying here but I respectfully disagree. You still won't be able to close games out without Middleton(peremiter scorer) Jrue(playmaker)surrounding and complimenting Giannis. Every team needs a 1a and 1b or a Batman/ Robin and good supporting cast to truly compete. I see no reason why Embiid can't play Robin role on offense if needed .
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1448 » by phillynative » Wed Aug 4, 2021 8:44 am

76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:We went from if you can build around Embiid to Rebuilding all together. If your trading Embiid your obviously rebuilding and starting over that's not hard to understand at all. There's no "breather".


GSW and Raps still have Curry and Siakam. So you’re not really starting over. You’re just using time as a leverage to generate you assets.

Ive never said anything about trading Embiid during this discussion.

If your definition of rebuilding is more of re-structuring the team, then yes. You have to re-structure it that Embiid can be your redundant, like your second kidney. That if it ever fails, you have another kidney for you to survive.


You said Yuuby understood what you meant and his sentiment is that Embiid should be traded because you won't be able to get a better player for Ben and Tobias. Imo that's starting over.

Curry and Siakim are their teams best player and they have not been traded. So I agree they are restructuring.

If the sixers want to restructure they should of let Embiid have the surgery and sit. Temporarily build the team around Ben to boost his value.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1449 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 4, 2021 8:47 am

phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:
Having a Harden or Damian Lillard would still be building around him and vice versa because they don't occupy the same areas on the floor nor have the same role. Do you think Embiid would still be creating from 18 feet out with those type of players on his team . Of course not . Sliding into a helper is no problem when you actually have help.

You showing me some of his lowlites lol doesn't really change my stance. He would be better at the end of games , if he didn't occupy the same space as the other two best players and if he didn't have to carry his team all game by creating for himself with no PG. He also would be better down the stretch, if he dropped weight, became a better passer and decision maker or was able to take a back seat to a peremeter player. That is what we are working with right now with Embiid, some he is at fault and some he is just not. Just because one thing is accurate doesn't mean the other isnt.


Ok.

Just to prove my point and im not saying i’d prefer this.

But replace Dame or Harden with Giannis.

Whereas Giannis can carry the team when Biid is off the floor. And Giannis’ scoring range is similar with Ben, so this takes away the “but occupying the same areas”.

Biid and Giannis on the floor, gets you big leads such as when Biid plays with Ben.

Biid is not playing, we’d still be able to get leads and win games shown by Giannis carrying the Bucks.

If Biid goes lethargic and goes absent spiritually, you can then try to win games with Giannis.

This is also why I’m OK with Siakam. But im not saying it’s my most preferred option.


I get what your saying here but I respectfully disagree. You still won't be able to close games out without Middleton(peremiter scorer) Jrue(playmaker)surrounding and complimenting Giannis. Every team needs a 1a and 1b or a Batman/ Robin and good supporting cast to truly compete. I see no reason why Embiid can't play Robin role on offense if needed .


Then let Embiid close out games for you. It would be such a waste to pay someone a supermax and not have that guy close out games for you right? Embiid is a heavy mid range player anyways and mid range scoring is the goldiluck zone in crunch time

And now he has a helper, in theory this would solve the conditioning issues because he will have to carry less load. Now.

Well if Embiid can’t close the game for you then let Giannis drop 50+pts like in game 6 of the finals.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1450 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 4, 2021 8:53 am

phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:We went from if you can build around Embiid to Rebuilding all together. If your trading Embiid your obviously rebuilding and starting over that's not hard to understand at all. There's no "breather".


GSW and Raps still have Curry and Siakam. So you’re not really starting over. You’re just using time as a leverage to generate you assets.

Ive never said anything about trading Embiid during this discussion.

If your definition of rebuilding is more of re-structuring the team, then yes. You have to re-structure it that Embiid can be your redundant, like your second kidney. That if it ever fails, you have another kidney for you to survive.


You said Yuuby understood what you meant and his sentiment is that Embiid should be traded because you won't be able to get a better player for Ben and Tobias. Imo that's starting over.

Curry and Siakim are their teams best player and they have not been traded. So I agree they are restructuring.

If the sixers want to restructure they should of let Embiid have the surgery and sit. Temporarily build the team around Ben to boost his value.


We both dont have english as our main language and i find that thats where the misunderstanding lies :lol:

He says I failed to articulate that its impossible to find a really good player with our assets. Then I countered that there are a couple of paths to get a really good player. And both are just a couple of ways to accumulate assets and build a good trade package.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1451 » by rzzzzz » Wed Aug 4, 2021 1:50 pm

76ciology wrote:Again it does not matter. Even if Ben is a 40% spot up shooter.


If Ben was shooting, period, and at 40%, then he is Magic. Best pg in the league. Embiid doesn’t get double and triple teamed and doesn’t have to exert himself so much that he ends up drained by the end of the 3rd qtr. We would have the two guys who are competing with each other for league mvp. And we would be a monster dynasty, winning title after title. (That’s why Ben drives everybody nuts. He won’t even try to be that guy. So frightened about not looking cool, he comes off a fool.)
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1452 » by eyeatoma » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:24 am

Haven't heard anything yet about his extension. At this point, I think it's very indicative that it will be determined once Ben is traded. Seems like Jo is going to wait and decide what he does based on the return that arrives. Makes it more likely that he is sitting out for an actual star and not of some of the young players and picks packages some have thrown out. Obviously this is just my opinion, but at least that's how I read it. It's very telling that he hasn't signed yet. Most players who had an extension to sign have, Jo is one of the last ones. When is the deadline for this? Is it possible he doesn't sign? God I hope it doesn't get to that point.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1453 » by syntax » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:57 am

Has an extension been offered? Have there been talks? What is going on here??
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1454 » by eyeatoma » Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:46 am

syntax wrote:Has an extension been offered? Have there been talks? What is going on here??
I'm sure they've offered and he's holding off.

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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1455 » by Tomjas » Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:03 am

eyeatoma wrote:
syntax wrote:Has an extension been offered? Have there been talks? What is going on here??
I'm sure they've offered and he's holding off.

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Why?

Only one to turn down that sort of security is LeBron
who rolled with multiple deals of smaller duration but he’s an Ironman who earns hundreds of millions in endorsements
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1456 » by eyeatoma » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:08 am

Tomjas wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
syntax wrote:Has an extension been offered? Have there been talks? What is going on here??
I'm sure they've offered and he's holding off.

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Why?

Only one to turn down that sort of security is LeBron
who rolled with multiple deals of smaller duration but he’s an Ironman who earns hundreds of millions in endorsements


Because apart from this year, the Sixers have treated him like ****. Never building around him. The BC regime tried to paint him as a villain, and sided with Ben fully and ofcourse burner gate. The only time the Sixers had an actual contender, they traded the player that made them that, to appease a primadonna socialite. I think Jo might not be in on getting younger pieces that can't produce now. Unless it's a star like Lillard, Beal, Lavine, or Fox I would not be surprised if he doesn't sign the supermax. I could be making more of this than is necessary, but it is definitely curious that he has not signed yet. I do agree though, it is odd for a player to turn down that kind of security, but this is one of the biggest pieces of leverage he has. So might as well use it and get the team around you that you desire.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1457 » by Tomjas » Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:18 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:I'm sure they've offered and he's holding off.

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Why?

Only one to turn down that sort of security is LeBron
who rolled with multiple deals of smaller duration but he’s an Ironman who earns hundreds of millions in endorsements


Because apart from this year, the Sixers have treated him like ****. Never building around him. The BC regime tried to paint him as a villain, and sided with Ben fully and ofcourse burner gate. The only time the Sixers had an actual contender, they traded the player that made them that, to appease a primadonna socialite. I think Jo might not be in on getting younger pieces that can't produce now. Unless it's a star like Lillard, Beal, Lavine, or Fox I would not be surprised if he doesn't sign the supermax. I could be making more of this than is necessary, but it is definitely curious that he has not signed yet. I do agree though, it is odd for a player to turn down that kind of security, but this is one of the biggest pieces of leverage he has. So might as well use it and get the team around you that you desire.


I seem to remember a guy named Al Horford who was signed to a ridiculously inflated contract in order to help Embiid defend Giannis and give him time off

Name a single $100 million player signed to make Ben’s job easier

Hell, name a $20 million player

Hint: don’t waste your time looking

Joel has been babied way more than Ben when it comes to roster construction and load management

You will rightly say that it’s how it should be but let’s not pretend that Joel hasn’t been favoured here
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1458 » by eyeatoma » Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:20 am

Tomjas wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
Why?

Only one to turn down that sort of security is LeBron
who rolled with multiple deals of smaller duration but he’s an Ironman who earns hundreds of millions in endorsements


Because apart from this year, the Sixers have treated him like ****. Never building around him. The BC regime tried to paint him as a villain, and sided with Ben fully and ofcourse burner gate. The only time the Sixers had an actual contender, they traded the player that made them that, to appease a primadonna socialite. I think Jo might not be in on getting younger pieces that can't produce now. Unless it's a star like Lillard, Beal, Lavine, or Fox I would not be surprised if he doesn't sign the supermax. I could be making more of this than is necessary, but it is definitely curious that he has not signed yet. I do agree though, it is odd for a player to turn down that kind of security, but this is one of the biggest pieces of leverage he has. So might as well use it and get the team around you that you desire.


I seem to remember a guy named Al Horford who was signed to a ridiculously inflated contract in order to help Embiid defend Giannis and give him time off

Name a single $100 million player signed to make Ben’s job easier

Hell, name a $20 million player

Hint: don’t waste your time looking

Joel has been babied way more than Ben when it comes to roster construction and load management

You will rightly say that it’s how it should be but let’s not pretend that Joel hasn’t been favoured here
Lol ok buddy.

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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1459 » by syntax » Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:26 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:I'm sure they've offered and he's holding off.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk


Why?

Only one to turn down that sort of security is LeBron
who rolled with multiple deals of smaller duration but he’s an Ironman who earns hundreds of millions in endorsements


Because apart from this year, the Sixers have treated him like ****. Never building around him. The BC regime tried to paint him as a villain, and sided with Ben fully and ofcourse burner gate. The only time the Sixers had an actual contender, they traded the player that made them that, to appease a primadonna socialite. I think Jo might not be in on getting younger pieces that can't produce now. Unless it's a star like Lillard, Beal, Lavine, or Fox I would not be surprised if he doesn't sign the supermax. I could be making more of this than is necessary, but it is definitely curious that he has not signed yet. I do agree though, it is odd for a player to turn down that kind of security, but this is one of the biggest pieces of leverage he has. So might as well use it and get the team around you that you desire.


Ben got told at the start of a playoff series to throw the keys to Butler. Yeah right the Sixers pandered to him. If anything it's the complete opposite.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#1460 » by eyeatoma » Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:36 am

Good god I'm swarmed by Simmons stans in an Embiid thread. This is what I get for posting when only Aussies are awake.

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