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Joel Embiid

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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#181 » by 76ciology » Sat May 16, 2020 6:25 am

Im more concerned with the offense than on defense. And i think most have the same sentiment.

If teams play big we can put Al and Biid.
If teams play small we can replace Al with Thybulle.

It’s very good but not like all time pistons great. That requires help of the refs IMO.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#182 » by 76ciology » Sat May 16, 2020 6:28 am

Offensively.

It’s really about creating 4v5 situations and passing it to the open guy. Guys like LeBron, CP3 and etc can do it. Easiest and most effective way is to run the 1-5 PnR, which we all know is our weakness on both ends of the court.

Embiid and Ben are more like 4.65 vs 5. So to counter that we need constant dribble drives (which should keep increasing the margin) until we can create that good look. And it’s not helping when you have Ben who can’t shoot.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#183 » by Kobblehead » Sat May 16, 2020 2:37 pm

Tobias looks just as bad as he's always looked, to me. I don't get the optimism.

Whatever 8 guy combination we run with, it will be our worst defensive rotation we've brought to the playoffs so far. And we're not even making defensive concessions by way of creators. So worst of both worlds. Burks is the only bad defender that we'll play that can create his own shot in the halfcourt.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#184 » by Sixerscan » Sat May 16, 2020 4:27 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Tobias looks just as bad as he's always looked, to me. I don't get the optimism.

Whatever 8 guy combination we run with, it will be our worst defensive rotation we've brought to the playoffs so far. And we're not even making defensive concessions by way of creators. So worst of both worlds. Burks is the only bad defender that we'll play that can create his own shot in the halfcourt.


Are you saying this figuratively, or is this one of those things where you dig in your heels and in an hour you're arguing Belinelli was a better defender than Thybulle? In that Celtics series Marco, JJ and Dario were all playing 30+ mpg, there was no playable backup center, Ben was no where near the level he is now, idk what was going on with Cov, it was a mess. Feel like it's pretty hard to make that rotation was better defensively.

Last year was better/very good but Redick was still playing 40 minutes and they literally couldn't stop the Raptors when Embiid was on the bench, probably because the best option at backup center wasn't in the NBA a month prior and signed with a German team two months later. If you want to say that team was on the level of this year I don't think it's crazy but I think it's hard to say it was better because of the backup center issue.

This team has some weak spots at the edges whereas the previous teams was constantly working to cover up for multiple weakspots on the court, including the center spot when Embiid was out which is the most important defensive position on the court. And I credit at least Redick for working his butt off to minimize his damage. But there's not the same fundamental issues with this team, at least on defense.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#185 » by Kobblehead » Sat May 16, 2020 4:54 pm

Celtics Series Rotation: 50% of the rotation comprised of good defenders
Embiid - 37.4
Redick - 36.4
Simmons - 36.4
Saric - 36
Covington - 26.3
Belinelli - 23.9
McConnell - 22.8
Ilyasova - 19.7

Raptors Series Rotation: 57% of the rotation comprised of good defenders
Harris - 38.1
Butler - 37.7
Simmons - 36.3
Embiid - 33.9
Redick - 33.2
Ennis - 22.7
Scott - 15.1

2020 Playoff Rotation Hopefuls:
Simmons
Harris
Horford
Richardson
Embiid
Korkmaz
Burks
Thybulle
Milton
Robinson
Scott

So as you can see, it really depends on which guys Brett decides to go with and how tight the rotation is. The ultimate x factor is his faith in the rookie Thybulle.

#1 - A 7 man rotation with Thybulle will yield a tremendous defensive rotation (71%).
#2 - An 8 man rotation with Thybulle will yield a good defensive rotation (62%).
#3 - An 8 man rotation without Thybulle will yield a pitiful defensive rotation (50%).

Based on the minute reduction of Thybulle, post trade deadline, I'm guessing Brett is going to opt for option #3 and field a team equally as bad defensively as the 2018 playoff rotation.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#186 » by Sixerscan » Sat May 16, 2020 6:23 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Celtics Series Rotation: 50% of the rotation comprised of good defenders
Embiid - 37.4
Redick - 36.4
Simmons - 36.4
Saric - 36
Covington - 26.3
Belinelli - 23.9
McConnell - 22.8
Ilyasova - 19.7

Raptors Series Rotation: 57% of the rotation comprised of good defenders
Harris - 38.1
Butler - 37.7
Simmons - 36.3
Embiid - 33.9
Redick - 33.2
Ennis - 22.7
Scott - 15.1

2020 Playoff Rotation Hopefuls:
Simmons
Harris
Horford
Richardson
Embiid
Korkmaz
Burks
Thybulle
Milton
Robinson
Scott

So as you can see, it really depends on which guys Brett decides to go with and how tight the rotation is. The ultimate x factor is his faith in the rookie Thybulle.

#1 - A 7 man rotation with Thybulle will yield a tremendous defensive rotation (71%).
#2 - An 8 man rotation with Thybulle will yield a good defensive rotation (62%).
#3 - An 8 man rotation without Thybulle will yield a pitiful defensive rotation (50%).

Based on the minute reduction of Thybulle, post trade deadline, I'm guessing Brett is going to opt for option #3 and field a team equally as bad defensively as the 2018 playoff rotation.


Seems pretty ridiculous to count Harris as just a "bad" defender as Belinelli (or TJ as "good" a defender as Embiid or like 4 guys in the current rotation for that matter) but either way, like I said, the difference is that most of the "bad" defenders in the 2020 rotation are playing bit minutes, where as the guys in 2018 were playing much bigger roles, as you can see by the order you are putting them in. Seems like the issues are obvious with just dividing the good defenders by total players like Ben Simmons and Alec Burks are to be playing the same number of minutes or play equal roles defensively.

Also you're just leaving out the backup center positions from both of those Raptors and Celtics series which were major reasons they lost those series. I'm not sure why you're doing that if your whole point is that playing Shake Milton for a few minutes now is going to submarine them.

And we'll see about Thybulle, I think he's played less (by like a few minutes) because with Ben (and sometimes Josh and Jo) out they thought they needed more ball handling and offense.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#187 » by Kobblehead » Sat May 16, 2020 7:22 pm

I'd also feel better about our 2020 playoff defense if some of our "good" defenders weren't being played out of position. Horford at F lessens his defensive impact. Richardson defending the ball swings him from a "good" defender to a "bad" one (same thing with James Ennis last year).

Either way you slice it, I don't know how you can feel good about our playoff defense this year. It would take a really good tactical coach to pull this off (Brett ain't that).
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#188 » by 76ciology » Sun May 17, 2020 6:07 am

Instead of looking for holes on our defense for mismatch, we should rather look for holes on the opponents defense for mismatch. The only time we ever did was during the Nets series when Boban and Biid dominated the Jarett Allen and Jared Dudly frontcourt.

Against the Celtics and the Raps, do we have any match-ups that we tried to take advantage with? Well I know Tatum was scoring on his sleep against JJ while Ben on Kawhi looked like Byron Russell on Jordan. Rozier looked like Kemba when he’s scoring over Robert Covington. Siakam was scoring like Durant, until Embiid defended him to match-up his combination of length and athleticism.

Straight up, we have no mismatches. Then we can’t run PnRs to generate mismatches unlike how teams like the Rockets or Warriors would have Harden or Curry forced Gobert to step out and dance with them. It came to the point IMO that Jazz is now looking to part ways with Gobert.

If we attack mismatches, we will have closers and options on offense down the stretch rather than relying on JJ on DHO or playing Russian roulette with Embiid at the post not turning the ball over.

Watch how we struggled on offense down the stretch in the playoffs. Specially in game 7 of the Raps series.

So if we focused on the defensive part of the mismatch rather than the offensive part, we’d end up like the team of trainers guys that Tatum and the rest of Drew Hanlen’s clients would play 1v1 with during the summer.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#189 » by Kobblehead » Sun May 17, 2020 2:39 pm

McConnell was able to slow down Rozier. Brett just figured it out too late. This is the kind of tactical deficiencies I'm talking about with Brett. It takes him halfway through the series to realize that his 6'9" guy with sore knee and sore lower back can't stay with an explosive 6'1" guy. And he has a strong defensive PG sitting on the bench the whole time.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#190 » by Kobblehead » Sun May 17, 2020 3:00 pm

76ciology wrote:Instead of looking for holes on our defense for mismatch, we should rather look for holes on the opponents defense for mismatch. The only time we ever did was during the Nets series when Boban and Biid dominated the Jarett Allen and Jared Dudly frontcourt.


Given that we don't have a star ball handler to attack opponents' defensive weaknesses, I think it's a better strategy to just sure up our own defensive weaknesses. We don't have the talent to win pretty. We have to win dogfights. Play strong defense and "Embiid" our way to wins, on offense.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#191 » by Kobblehead » Sun May 17, 2020 3:03 pm

The more I think about it, I think we have to go to a tight 7-man rotation. And the only bad defender we can play off the bench is Burks (for the shotcreation benefits). No Milton, no Korkmaz, no Scott, no Robinson, etc.

Embiid
Horford

Harris
Simmons
Richardson
Thybulle

Burks

Lean heavily on Alec Burks in the halfcourt to attack weak defenders.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#192 » by Negrodamus » Sun May 17, 2020 3:24 pm

What an absolute nightmare shooting situation we'd have there.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#193 » by Kobblehead » Sun May 17, 2020 3:28 pm

That's the path we chose with the poor roster construction. At least we'd have an identity, though. Why masquerade as a balanced team and kill our defensive strength? Shooters don't show up in the postseason anyway, only ball handlers do.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#194 » by Negrodamus » Sun May 17, 2020 4:40 pm

Agreed on the poor roster construction, but I can't even envision playing Shake zero minutes in the playoffs. If anything, he takes Burks minutes. There's a difference between shooters not being as important in the playoffs and shooters having zero importances. In the games Ben went out, Shake was averaging 4 apg and probably creating better than anyone else on the team. I'll be beside myself if Brett doesn't play him.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#195 » by Kobblehead » Sun May 17, 2020 5:41 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Agreed on the poor roster construction, but I can't even envision playing Shake zero minutes in the playoffs. If anything, he takes Burks minutes. There's a difference between shooters not being as important in the playoffs and shooters having zero importances. In the games Ben went out, Shake was averaging 4 apg and probably creating better than anyone else on the team. I'll be beside myself if Brett doesn't play him.


Good off-position passer, but Shake cannot create his own shots in the halfcourt. He could barely do that at SMU. So where's the playoff value in him being both a bad defender and a non-creator? Burks is bad defensively, too, but at least he can score on the ball in the halfcourt. I'll make the concession for a shotcreator.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#196 » by Negrodamus » Sun May 17, 2020 5:45 pm

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891395-a-man-for-all-seasons?fbclid=IwAR3Ne3-IB6pbZXEDUzC0LlnwMz9UQqKtNU_K4e0yk_8SIEvYz7m86s6lCH8

Philadelphia 76ers center Joel Embiid might've been a tough fit as well. "A guy like that would have a hard time," a third Eastern Conference GM says. "He'd slow the game, and he needs the ball in his hands. He doesn't give the best effort. Underachievers of any kind would not work."


Lol, I like the MJ documentary, but now everyone is obsessed with how he'd fare today.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#197 » by 76ciology » Sun May 17, 2020 6:02 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
76ciology wrote:Instead of looking for holes on our defense for mismatch, we should rather look for holes on the opponents defense for mismatch. The only time we ever did was during the Nets series when Boban and Biid dominated the Jarett Allen and Jared Dudly frontcourt.


Given that we don't have a star ball handler to attack opponents' defensive weaknesses, I think it's a better strategy to just sure up our own defensive weaknesses. We don't have the talent to win pretty. We have to win dogfights. Play strong defense and "Embiid" our way to wins, on offense.


I can see your point. That is something ive always thought about before. How to win around a center as an alpha. And what you need here is a smash mouth type heavy defense basketball. A more recent example of this was the pistons-spurs finals. And a more evident example of this is the 90s to late 90s basketball of dumping the ball to the center, kicking out to the shooter then play really hard defense.

I just dont think it will work nowadays.

The league has just given the offense too much steroids that a smart coach like carlisle will glady have a boban defending embiid, then have their perimeter firepower defeat us.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#198 » by 76ciology » Sun May 17, 2020 6:03 pm

Negrodamus wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891395-a-man-for-all-seasons?fbclid=IwAR3Ne3-IB6pbZXEDUzC0LlnwMz9UQqKtNU_K4e0yk_8SIEvYz7m86s6lCH8

Philadelphia 76ers center Joel Embiid might've been a tough fit as well. "A guy like that would have a hard time," a third Eastern Conference GM says. "He'd slow the game, and he needs the ball in his hands. He doesn't give the best effort. Underachievers of any kind would not work."


Lol, I like the MJ documentary, but now everyone is obsessed with how he'd fare today.


On a related note, i think he will still be very good. Like a smaller version of Kawhi at the SG position.

But he won’t be as good as he was with the level of talent we have in the league right now.

But he’s still the GOAT to me because of his accolades and what he has accomplished. Greatness has a lot of luck/results involved, because if it’s not then GOAT should be Wilt.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#199 » by Negrodamus » Sun May 17, 2020 6:07 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Agreed on the poor roster construction, but I can't even envision playing Shake zero minutes in the playoffs. If anything, he takes Burks minutes. There's a difference between shooters not being as important in the playoffs and shooters having zero importances. In the games Ben went out, Shake was averaging 4 apg and probably creating better than anyone else on the team. I'll be beside myself if Brett doesn't play him.


Good off-position passer, but Shake cannot create his own shots in the halfcourt. He could barely do that at SMU. So where's the playoff value in him being both a bad defender and a non-creator? Burks is bad defensively, too, but at least he can score on the ball in the halfcourt. I'll make the concession for a shotcreator.


Well I'm not saying he's a good shot creator, but I'm saying he was one of the best on the team when Ben went out. I would honestly say he was in the same realm of a creator as Tobias. Assisted roughly around the same rate in March and February. Generated around the same FTA in the stretch of March where Shake was actually starting.

He's a PnR player. Makes plays once he gets space. Did it all this game:

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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#200 » by Negrodamus » Sun May 17, 2020 6:11 pm

76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2891395-a-man-for-all-seasons?fbclid=IwAR3Ne3-IB6pbZXEDUzC0LlnwMz9UQqKtNU_K4e0yk_8SIEvYz7m86s6lCH8

Philadelphia 76ers center Joel Embiid might've been a tough fit as well. "A guy like that would have a hard time," a third Eastern Conference GM says. "He'd slow the game, and he needs the ball in his hands. He doesn't give the best effort. Underachievers of any kind would not work."


Lol, I like the MJ documentary, but now everyone is obsessed with how he'd fare today.


On a related note, i think he will still be very good. Like a smaller version of Kawhi at the SG position.

But he won’t be as good as he was with the level of talent we have in the league right now.

But he’s still the GOAT to me because of his accolades and what he has accomplished. Greatness has a lot of luck/results involved, because if it’s not then GOAT should be Wilt.


I think he'd obliterate the league, statistically speaking. If he focused on a three point game, he'd score a ton more points. Mix in how easy cheap fouls are drawn these days and it would be an even worse version of Harden-ball. But, as per usual in the NBA across history, it would depend on how the team was constructed around him.

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