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How does this cheap ownership duck the tax next year?

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youngcrev
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Re: How does this cheap ownership duck the tax next year? 

Post#61 » by youngcrev » Thu May 21, 2020 6:17 pm

Sixerscan wrote:Well he's the 6th ranked SF in DRPM, and would be similarly ranked at the 4. Here's an article with game film breaking down his improvement with this year: https://www.libertyballers.com/2020/1/8/21056312/tobias-harris-is-living-up-to-his-contract-philadelphia-76ers-nba I don't agree with everything in this article but it's not some sort of consensus that he's awful.

Him being able to do a decent job on Gasol was pretty big in the Raptors series too. I don't think he's all league or anything but he's fine to good. If he's your 4th or 5th best defensive player on the court you're in pretty great shape.


Players are shooting 2.2% above their average against him which isn't great, though it's a somewhat noisy stat.

I'd say he's more of a below average-to-bad defender than an awful one. He's a reasonably good enough athlete in terms of strength/size/foot speed that he's not going to kill you when he's giving effort (which seemed to be way up this year), and has some level of switch-ability because of that, though that mainly just makes it easier to hide him on lesser offensive players. He's also not going to give you much of an advantage on the boards or create turnovers.

He's not bad enough that he's going to get targeted to death or do anything to completely sink you, so like you said, if he's your 4th or 5th best defender, you're probably fine (particularly if Jo and Ben are 2 of your other starters).
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Re: How does this cheap ownership duck the tax next year? 

Post#62 » by Kobblehead » Thu May 21, 2020 7:22 pm

Sixerscan wrote:Well he's the 6th ranked SF in DRPM, and would be similarly ranked at the 4. Here's an article with game film breaking down his improvement with this year: https://www.libertyballers.com/2020/1/8/21056312/tobias-harris-is-living-up-to-his-contract-philadelphia-76ers-nba I don't agree with everything in this article but it's not some sort of consensus that he's awful.

Him being able to do a decent job on Gasol was pretty big in the Raptors series too. I don't think he's all league or anything but he's fine to good. If he's your 4th or 5th best defensive player on the court you're in pretty great shape.


I stopped believing in plus/minus stats when I realized how heavily influenced they are by the other 4 guys on the court with you. You'll routinely see bad defenders on good defensive teams grade out with a positive defensive RPM.

The more you watch guys around the league who are actual good defenders and then cross reference it with what you see with Tobias Harris, the discrepancy will be become more and more apparent. He's just not a good defender in any way, in my eyes. I think he's an actively bad one on most possessions that he winds up on the ball. Which is what matters in the postseason. When you play a weak defender, he's going to be forced into defending guys on the ball. And he's going to give up easy buckets.

And if we're not going to let him create on the ball offensively to compensate for his bad defense (in my eyes), I literally see no value in him in comparence to the contract he's on. Bad asset that I want purged, if given the chance.
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Re: How does this cheap ownership duck the tax next year? 

Post#63 » by Sixerscan » Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:Well he's the 6th ranked SF in DRPM, and would be similarly ranked at the 4. Here's an article with game film breaking down his improvement with this year: https://www.libertyballers.com/2020/1/8/21056312/tobias-harris-is-living-up-to-his-contract-philadelphia-76ers-nba I don't agree with everything in this article but it's not some sort of consensus that he's awful.

Him being able to do a decent job on Gasol was pretty big in the Raptors series too. I don't think he's all league or anything but he's fine to good. If he's your 4th or 5th best defensive player on the court you're in pretty great shape.


I stopped believing in plus/minus stats when I realized how heavily influenced they are by the other 4 guys on the court with you. You'll routinely see bad defenders on good defensive teams grade out with a positive defensive RPM.

The more you watch guys around the league who are actual good defenders and then cross reference it with what you see with Tobias Harris, the discrepancy will be become more and more apparent. He's just not a good defender in any way, in my eyes. I think he's an actively bad one on most possessions that he winds up on the ball. Which is what matters in the postseason. When you play a weak defender, he's going to be forced into defending guys on the ball. And he's going to give up easy buckets.

And if we're not going to let him create on the ball offensively to compensate for his bad defense (in my eyes), I literally see no value in him in comparence to the contract he's on. Bad asset that I want purged, if given the chance.


Well he led the team in minutes during the post season last year and that didn't really happen. He gets beat from time to time but also holds his own plenty.

I think if you cross-reference his defense with actual bad defenders like Belinelli or Redick (who, btw, had a negative drpm when he was here) the discrepancy is pretty apparent.
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Re: How does this cheap ownership duck the tax next year? 

Post#64 » by Kobblehead » Thu May 21, 2020 10:09 pm

Tobias Harris can't guard anyone one-on-one and he doesn't produce any takeaways whatsoever. A fake metric saying he can play good defense is not going to change either of those things. The only reason Tobias wasn't abused as much last year (and he was abused plenty) was because there was always an older, smaller defensive zero out there to target (Redick). This year, now he's the weak link that will get exploited.

So yeah, let's purge this terrible asset if we get the chance. Burning it on Horford would be a really short-sighted, illogical move IMO.
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Re: How does this cheap ownership duck the tax next year? 

Post#65 » by Sixerscan » Fri May 22, 2020 2:20 am

I didn't just provide a metric, I linked an article with game film, which is more than you have provided, and you're still saying stuff like "he can't guard anyone one-on-one" so I think I'm done now.
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Re: How does this cheap ownership duck the tax next year? 

Post#66 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 22, 2020 12:30 pm

Because he can't...? Pushing back on Tobias Harris being a bad defender seems like a weird cause to take up.

I don't think you get how fake rpm is. Do you realize that is says that Wesley Matthews and Duncan Robinson (two awful defenders) are the 3rd and 9th ranked defensive shooting guards? Or outright sieve D.J. Augustine is the 5th ranked defensive PG? Or that my guy, defensive zero Jamal Murray is the 10th ranked defensive PG (6 spots ahead of Ben Simmons!!!)? Ivica Zubac as the 2nd best defensive C! Oh and my favorite is that Richaun Holmes is a better defensive center than both Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid! Like come on, DRPM is a joke. Tobias is a bad defender. I don't know why you don't see that. And I don't know why you grant any credibility whatsoever to a fake metric like DRPM.
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Re: How does this cheap ownership duck the tax next year? 

Post#67 » by Bimbo_Coles » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:29 pm

Warriors will help take contract off your hands using the Iggy TPE. Not a whole lot to offer back tho. Maybe two 2nd rounders this year, or our 2021 GSW 1st.

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