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Who would you have as head coach?

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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#41 » by PhillyPhilly » Sat Mar 7, 2020 2:20 am

TTP wrote:
PhillyPhilly wrote:
TTP wrote:
What specifically makes Ty Lue a good coach to you? Good coaches might win championships, but winning a championship is not sufficient to being a good coach.

Steve Kerr took over a team that won 51 games the year before and won 67 games by implementing a system that revolutionized the game on both ends for the rest of the NBA. He was smart enough to play one of his team's best players off the bench. He unlocked his players' talents with a heavy emphasis on pace and 3 point shooting to an extent that had never been seen before. On defense, he emphasized a heavy switching scheme and ran a lot of small ball lineups. The rest of the league took note and pretty much every team has copied that blueprint.

Steve Kerr is a great coach because he was adaptable and progressive - not simply because he won a championship.

As far as your argument for Lue, it seems to hinge a lot on the fact that he won a championship and that's not enough for me because it doesn't indicate his ability to succeed in a less fortunate situation. He wouldn't be coming into the same conditions here where he has one of the greatest players of all time and could let him do his thing. It's also just pretty damning that the Cavs got rid of Lue just six games after LeBron left.

I'm not sure what "knowing the East inside out" means when it's been like a year and a half since Lue has coached in the East and the league changes rapidly. The competitive landscape in the East is nothing like it was when Lue was coaching. Our team has gone through like 3 different iterations since then. The Raptors, Celtics, and Heat are completely different teams. Jason Kidd was coaching the Bucks during Lue's last full season in Cleveland, and the Bucks played completely differently then.

Point to me some specifics about what Ty Lue did well and how that could translate to success here. What does he do better than Brown and other coaches?


All Kerr did was copy what he learned playing under Jackson and used it at Golden State. MARC JACKSON did all the hard work and he merely finished the job. Now all the stars have gone what has Kerr done? Same thing with Eric In Miami...he had stars and won championships but what has he done since then? Ty Lue went to three or four finals and had to deal with emotional guys like Lebron and Kyrie...had to deal with the roster changing every five minutes and an owner who sacked his gm etc. The team he last took to the finals were NOT as talented as our Sixers, Toronto or Boston and yet they still made it through.

Can you name a better candidate?


Yikes at the bolded. I don't think it's possible for us to have an intelligent debate if you believe that.

I asked if you could provide me with some specifics about what Ty Lue did well and how that could translate here, because that's literally the only question that matters when deciding on a new coach, but you don't seem to be able to do that. I mean, Brett Brown's arguably best trait is that he's great at managing player morale, so Ty Lue is just going to come in here and do it better?


KEVIN LOVE ON TY LUE!!..

“I love Ty Lue ... Definitely if he’s not their first pick, he should be right there at the top, because he’s an unbelievable X’s and O’s guy. A players’ coach, a guy that’s very approachable that you can talk to, and I think with the personnel that they have he would be great. As well as already feeling familiar and being familiar with LeBron, and not only having that friendship but being able to coach LeBron and get in his ear because Ty really knows the game, and he’s been around the game, been around Jordan. He’s been around those great Lakers teams (with) Shaq and Kobe. Been around Phil, been around Doc, a lot of great basketball minds. So I think the more time that Ty Lue has as a head coach, he’s only going to get better. He would be a great decision.

Link

Happy now? :D

Ty is a young coach with championship experience....so he's done exactly what we're all dreaming of. Does he have faults? Yes...but so does every single coach in the game. Kerr is hailed as some "great" coach whilst having three of the greatest shooters on his team the game has ever seen...Jackson is hailed as a great coach despite having Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe etc to work with...Riley is hailed as a great coach and he had Magic etc etc. Pop has even had Duncan aswell...so I'm not gonna sit here and downplay Ty just because he had Lebron!!..it's simply not fair. The guy is only 42 years and with so much experience under his belt, will only get better imo.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#42 » by GoSixersBro » Sat Mar 7, 2020 2:57 am

I suppose Lue still has something left to prove, but to me I always thought he was well liked by LeBron, Love, and the rest of the players because he seemed to be "one of the guys". I don't think he ever stepped on anyone's toes. I'm not doubting he could be a great coach in this league as the years go on, but I just don't know how I'd feel if he was Brett Brown's replacement.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#43 » by TTP » Sat Mar 7, 2020 3:05 am

PhillyPhilly wrote:
TTP wrote:
PhillyPhilly wrote:
All Kerr did was copy what he learned playing under Jackson and used it at Golden State. MARC JACKSON did all the hard work and he merely finished the job. Now all the stars have gone what has Kerr done? Same thing with Eric In Miami...he had stars and won championships but what has he done since then? Ty Lue went to three or four finals and had to deal with emotional guys like Lebron and Kyrie...had to deal with the roster changing every five minutes and an owner who sacked his gm etc. The team he last took to the finals were NOT as talented as our Sixers, Toronto or Boston and yet they still made it through.

Can you name a better candidate?


Yikes at the bolded. I don't think it's possible for us to have an intelligent debate if you believe that.

I asked if you could provide me with some specifics about what Ty Lue did well and how that could translate here, because that's literally the only question that matters when deciding on a new coach, but you don't seem to be able to do that. I mean, Brett Brown's arguably best trait is that he's great at managing player morale, so Ty Lue is just going to come in here and do it better?


KEVIN LOVE ON TY LUE!!..

“I love Ty Lue ... Definitely if he’s not their first pick, he should be right there at the top, because he’s an unbelievable X’s and O’s guy. A players’ coach, a guy that’s very approachable that you can talk to, and I think with the personnel that they have he would be great. As well as already feeling familiar and being familiar with LeBron, and not only having that friendship but being able to coach LeBron and get in his ear because Ty really knows the game, and he’s been around the game, been around Jordan. He’s been around those great Lakers teams (with) Shaq and Kobe. Been around Phil, been around Doc, a lot of great basketball minds. So I think the more time that Ty Lue has as a head coach, he’s only going to get better. He would be a great decision.

Link

Happy now? :D

Ty is a young coach with championship experience....so he's done exactly what we're all dreaming of. Does he have faults? Yes...but so does every single coach in the game. Kerr is hailed as some "great" coach whilst having three of the greatest shooters on his team the game has ever seen...Jackson is hailed as a great coach despite having Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe etc to work with...Riley is hailed as a great coach and he had Magic etc etc. Pop has even had Duncan aswell...so I'm not gonna sit here and downplay Ty just because he had Lebron!!..it's simply not fair. The guy is only 42 years and with so much experience under his belt, will only get better imo.


The guy you want to replace, Brett Brown, has had plenty of his players caping up for him as well, including Embiid and Butler. Players have a lot of incentive to say good things about their coaches and former coaches. Both Brown and Lue are players coaches that tend to be loved and respected by their players.

Both Lue with LeBron and Kerr with Curry+ were fortunate to have elite players but surely you understand the difference in circumstances.

In Marc Jackson's last year coaching the Warriors, they ran an iso-heavy offense that ranked 12th in points per possession, 6th in pace, and 28th in the NBA in average seconds per touch. Kerr came in and transformed the offense to a system that emphasized passing, movement on and off the ball, and pace. His first year they were 2nd in points per possession, 1st in pace, and 1st in average seconds per touch, not to mention they were the #1 defense as well. Curry was always an excellent player, but Kerr's system helped unlock him to having one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time.

I don't think there's a lot of evidence that Lue helped to elevate LeBron to the extent that Kerr helped elevate the Warriors, which is important, because the emphasis on a new coach is that we'd want someone that can help elevate Embiid/Simmons to the next level.

Much of Love's comment is also about Lue being a great fit for the Lakers because of his friendship with LeBron - which is completely irrelevant for us. You also have to wonder about Lue's relationship with Kyrie when Kyrie wanted out.

Finally, if Lue was such a great coach, why was he fired 6 games into his first season post-LeBron? It looks a lot like LeBron was the only thing keeping him as head coach because LeBron wanted a coach that he'd retain a lot of power and control over. Notice that all of those other respected coaches with stars - Kerr, Pop, Carlisle, Spoelstra, etc - did not fire their coach after their stars left or they experienced periods without success.

Ultimately, the #1 sign of respect as a head coach is actually being employed as a head coach, which Lue is not right now. As far as I know, the Lakers are the only team that has offered Lue a head coaching position, which he declined because he felt that he was only being hired as a coach for LeBron:

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Even Lue thinks that he's only being considered as a head coach because of his relationship with LeBron and not because of his merit as a coach. He had no other head coaching offers.

Clearly, the NBA at large does not agree with you.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#44 » by PhillyPhilly » Sat Mar 7, 2020 3:51 am

Lol so you're ignoring the fact that Kerr had THREE ALL TIME GREAT shooters, plus a great defender In Green, in order to praise him for copying Phil Jackson's system..yet you want to downplay a guy who made three nba finals in s row with much less talent? SMH. Also who cares if Lue got fired by that fire tire organisation? They fired Griffin, failed to get Paul George when told them he would join Lebron and gave Kyrie away for virtually nothing..so your point is futile imo.

Also what has Kerr done this season? If he's as "great" as you suggest, why couldn't he win games with Green and Dlo in his team? Lue's record is there for all to see...whether you doubt him or not..it's not gonna change :D .
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#45 » by TTP » Sat Mar 7, 2020 5:28 am

PhillyPhilly wrote:Lol so you're ignoring the fact that Kerr had THREE ALL TIME GREAT shooters, plus a great defender In Green, in order to praise him for copying Phil Jackson's system..yet you want to downplay a guy who made three nba finals in s row with much less talent? SMH. Also who cares if Lue got fired by that fire tire organisation? They fired Griffin, failed to get Paul George when told them he would join Lebron and gave Kyrie away for virtually nothing..so your point is futile imo.

Also what has Kerr done this season? If he's as "great" as you suggest, why couldn't he win games with Green and Dlo in his team? Lue's record is there for all to see...whether you doubt him or not..it's not gonna change :D .


I'm not ignoring that fact at all. Marc Jackson and Steve Kerr each had the same all-time great shooters in 2013/14 and 2014/15. Marc Jackson (who you seem to respect from your previous posts) managed to get 51 wins with them. Steve Kerr managed to win get 67 wins with them the following season with a vastly different offensive system. You seem to be someone who thinks coaching matters (otherwise why would you be calling to replace Brown?). When one coach achieves massively greater success than the other with more or less the same team, you can make a pretty good argument that the coaching change was at least partially responsible for the increased success, and that it would be an indicator of a good coach.

As far as this season, DLo has never been a high impact player and they've been fielding a G league level roster all season so that they can tank and get a high pick. I doubt any coach is going to have much success with that roster.

I still don't understand what you mean by copying Phil Jackson's system either - you're going to have to explain yourself there because I don't recall any of Phil Jackson's teams playing anything like the Kerr-led Warriors. A quick google search leads me to an article from the Athletic where an advance scout states that Steve Kerr doesn't run any of Phil Jackson's plays: https://theathletic.com/709415/2018/12/12/on-the-road-with-an-nba-spy-the-grinding-work-and-lifestyle-of-an-advance-scout/

I don't know what more to tell you. According to the Shelburne tweets I linked, 29 teams in the NBA don't have interest in hiring Ty Lue over their current situation. The 30th team, according to Ty Lue himself, only wants him as a coach for LeBron, with no commitment beyond that. If you want to continue to think that Ty Lue is a good coach, by all means die on that mountain, but realize that actual NBA management does not share your view.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#46 » by 76ciology » Sat Mar 7, 2020 5:56 am

If you ask me the best coach to replace Brett is Stan Van Gundy.

SVG’s forte is bringing out the best in his players, he did that when he was with the Heat with DWade then his best work was with D12 and the Magic. He was able to make D12 look like he’s as LeBron’s level at one point!

His stint with the Pistons was a disaster, but it showed how a team would hire him to make square pegs on round holes kind of job. Which is perfect with the Ben-Biid dynamic.

I’m also sure Biid will vote for him (given his experience with D12).

And lastly, check how he sounds (sentiment) towards the team when he was covering our team on a national TV game (i cant remember the game). He sounds like he was trying to lobby his way.

He is also WAAAAY better than Lue.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#47 » by PhillyPhilly » Sat Mar 7, 2020 7:08 am

TTP wrote:
I'm not ignoring that fact at all. Marc Jackson and Steve Kerr each had the same all-time great shooters in 2013/14 and 2014/15. Marc Jackson (who you seem to respect from your previous posts) managed to get 51 wins with them. Steve Kerr managed to win get 67 wins with them the following season with a vastly different offensive system. You seem to be someone who thinks coaching matters (otherwise why would you be calling to replace Brown?). When one coach achieves massively greater success than the other with more or less the same team, you can make a pretty good argument that the coaching change was at least partially responsible for the increased success, and that it would be an indicator of a good coach.

The bottom line is Jackson developed the core guys who Kerr adopted...and all three will go down as great players. TALENT wins in this league so why do people like you hold Lebron's greatness against Lue but don't hold Curry and co against Kerr when his "system" has failed the moment he doesn't have those players available?


As far as this season, DLo has never been a high impact player and they've been fielding a G league level roster all season so that they can tank and get a high pick. I doubt any coach is going to have much success with that roster.

Not true...they were trash even when they had Green, Curry AND Dlo on the court at the same time...that's THREE ALL-STARS..so please come with a better excuse because this one is utterly feeble. The fact is Kerr can't win without supreme talent...FACT!!.


I still don't understand what you mean by copying Phil Jackson's system either - you're going to have to explain yourself there because I don't recall any of Phil Jackson's teams playing anything like the Kerr-led Warriors. A quick google search leads me to an article from the Athletic where an advance scout states that Steve Kerr doesn't run any of Phil Jackson's plays: https://theathletic.com/709415/2018/12/12/on-the-road-with-an-nba-spy-the-grinding-work-and-lifestyle-of-an-advance-scout/

He copied elements of Phill's triangle!!...as stated in THIS article which says...

If you tuned in for the Golden State Warriors’ first game without Kevin Durant on Thursday night, you saw a team ignoring its most potent weapon at the expense of coach Steve Kerr’s system. Rather than have Curry run countless pick-and-rolls with Draymond Green, which is easily the Warriors’ single most effective set, Kerr fell back on the triangle-based, hybrid, motion offense he holds dear.



I don't know what more to tell you. According to the Shelburne tweets I linked, 29 teams in the NBA don't have interest in hiring Ty Lue over their current situation. The 30th team, according to Ty Lue himself, only wants him as a coach for LeBron, with no commitment beyond that. If you want to continue to think that Ty Lue is a good coach, by all means die on that mountain, but realize that actual NBA management does not share your view.

LOL WEAK!!..LA wanted him and he rejected them, PERIOD!!..and why? Because rightly he knows his self worth. But hey..Lue is "such a poor coach" that the best GM in modern history and a championship winning coach INVITED him into their organisation for the last two years!!..wow what a shocker!! :D

So let me round this up real quick.

1. We should ignore his winning record

2. We should ignore that he won a championship and went to three finals in a row

3. We should ignore players talking about how great he is with the x's and o's and how much of a players coach he is

BUT WE SHOULD LISTEN TO "TWEETS" CLAIMING TEAMS DON'T WANT HIM? Ok buddy :lol: :lol: :lol:

P.S. can you name a better candidate than Lue please? Seeing as you're so against him and appear to be some "Basketball head coach expert"...so please to me who should replace Brown if he leaves?
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#48 » by Lou_23 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 2:34 pm

Kenny Atkinson? :roll:
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#49 » by Embiid P » Sat Mar 7, 2020 4:01 pm

I'm quite stunned that Kenny Atkinson just became available. How he took the fall for a team that is missing its two stars is beyond me. I think he would be my top choice to replace Brown if he gets fired.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#50 » by Sixerscan » Sat Mar 7, 2020 4:27 pm

PhillyPhilly wrote:
TTP wrote:
I'm not ignoring that fact at all. Marc Jackson and Steve Kerr each had the same all-time great shooters in 2013/14 and 2014/15. Marc Jackson (who you seem to respect from your previous posts) managed to get 51 wins with them. Steve Kerr managed to win get 67 wins with them the following season with a vastly different offensive system. You seem to be someone who thinks coaching matters (otherwise why would you be calling to replace Brown?). When one coach achieves massively greater success than the other with more or less the same team, you can make a pretty good argument that the coaching change was at least partially responsible for the increased success, and that it would be an indicator of a good coach.

The bottom line is Jackson developed the core guys who Kerr adopted...and all three will go down as great players. TALENT wins in this league so why do people like you hold Lebron's greatness against Lue but don't hold Curry and co against Kerr when his "system" has failed the moment he doesn't have those players available?


As far as this season, DLo has never been a high impact player and they've been fielding a G league level roster all season so that they can tank and get a high pick. I doubt any coach is going to have much success with that roster.

Not true...they were trash even when they had Green, Curry AND Dlo on the court at the same time...that's THREE ALL-STARS..so please come with a better excuse because this one is utterly feeble. The fact is Kerr can't win without supreme talent...FACT!!.


I still don't understand what you mean by copying Phil Jackson's system either - you're going to have to explain yourself there because I don't recall any of Phil Jackson's teams playing anything like the Kerr-led Warriors. A quick google search leads me to an article from the Athletic where an advance scout states that Steve Kerr doesn't run any of Phil Jackson's plays: https://theathletic.com/709415/2018/12/12/on-the-road-with-an-nba-spy-the-grinding-work-and-lifestyle-of-an-advance-scout/

He copied elements of Phill's triangle!!...as stated in THIS article which says...

If you tuned in for the Golden State Warriors’ first game without Kevin Durant on Thursday night, you saw a team ignoring its most potent weapon at the expense of coach Steve Kerr’s system. Rather than have Curry run countless pick-and-rolls with Draymond Green, which is easily the Warriors’ single most effective set, Kerr fell back on the triangle-based, hybrid, motion offense he holds dear.



I don't know what more to tell you. According to the Shelburne tweets I linked, 29 teams in the NBA don't have interest in hiring Ty Lue over their current situation. The 30th team, according to Ty Lue himself, only wants him as a coach for LeBron, with no commitment beyond that. If you want to continue to think that Ty Lue is a good coach, by all means die on that mountain, but realize that actual NBA management does not share your view.

LOL WEAK!!..LA wanted him and he rejected them, PERIOD!!..and why? Because rightly he knows his self worth. But hey..Lue is "such a poor coach" that the best GM in modern history and a championship winning coach INVITED him into their organisation for the last two years!!..wow what a shocker!! :D

So let me round this up real quick.

1. We should ignore his winning record

2. We should ignore that he won a championship and went to three finals in a row

3. We should ignore players talking about how great he is with the x's and o's and how much of a players coach he is

BUT WE SHOULD LISTEN TO "TWEETS" CLAIMING TEAMS DON'T WANT HIM? Ok buddy :lol: :lol: :lol:

P.S. can you name a better candidate than Lue please? Seeing as you're so against him and appear to be some "Basketball head coach expert"...so please to me who should replace Brown if he leaves?


There's a pretty obvious distinction between Kerr and Lue. Kerr completely changed how the Warriors played, and they became a much better team. While Lue more or less stayed the course and the Cavs improved slightly.

I'm not sure how anyone can say Jackson solely developed Draymond. He played him 22 minutes a night and started David Lee over him his last year. Then when Kerr got there he started Draymond, played him at center more and completely changed their style of offense getting them to play faster and rely on the 3 more which caused them to go from a decent 50 win team to a 67 win champion. Kerr committing to the Death Lineup was one of the greatest coaching moves of the last decade to the point that the entire league has been trying to copy it ever since.

Lue on the other hand took over a team that had made the finals the year before and took that series 6 with two of its three all stars injured and Delly being like the 3rd or 4th best guy on the team. Then when Lue took over midseason the following year they were healthy and won it all. Was he that much better of a coach than David Blatt, or did he mostly just have Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love?

Lue didn't completely change the way the Cavs played like Kerr did the Warriors. That would have been incredibly difficult to do given that he took over midseason. He stayed the course and he was Lebron's guy so things clicked better. And I don't think it's some sort of awful thing that he was Lebron's guy, part of being a coach is knowing what buttons to push, and the right button to push on that team was to take a step back and let arguably the smartest player in NBA history do his thing.

I don't think Lue is some sort of awful coach but he's not an obvious upgrade over Brown and I don't get why someone would be super excited about hiring him unless you're just looking for some sort of default alternative.

I don't think there's any obvious upgrade out there, and people are mostly using Brown as a lightening rod to direct their blame rather than pointing it at the players or front office.

That being said, Brown is obviously going to be the scapegoat if they don't have a great playoff run. If you're looking for some sort of lesson from Kerr or Lue, the most important thing for a new coach would be if they can connect with your best players and get the most out of them. Hard to say who that would be from the outside.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#51 » by mjkvol » Sat Mar 7, 2020 4:30 pm

I'll third the Atkinson nomination. It's hard to believe that the Nets would let this guy go, and clearly shows that Irving and Durant are running the ship now, which is a lock to end in a dumpster fire.

I hope Brand makes contact with him sooner than later, as he won't be unemployed for very long.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#52 » by the_process » Sat Mar 7, 2020 7:18 pm

Embiid P wrote:I'm quite stunned that Kenny Atkinson just became available. How he took the fall for a team that is missing its two stars is beyond me. I think he would be my top choice to replace Brown if he gets fired.


Atkinson is out because Kyrie wanted him out. And obviously Durant backed Kyrie's play.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#53 » by the_process » Sat Mar 7, 2020 7:21 pm

I would be good with any of Jeff Van Gundy, Kenny Atkinson, Tyronne Lue, or Jay Wright at this point.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#54 » by rzzzzz » Sat Mar 7, 2020 11:47 pm

Lou_23 wrote:Kenny Atkinson? :roll:


Kenny Atkinson!

Kenny >>> Brett. if Embiid is healthy, and Ben can play some in the playoffs, we could win it all this year.
hell of a story either way.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#55 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sun Mar 8, 2020 1:26 am

Yo...Kenny Atkinson here all freakin day!!!! I'm high schooler hype right now that he's a potential fit if we part ways with Brett. I love BB, but if he gets canned, Atkinson is first up on my list. Jay Wright would be 1A.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#56 » by Mik317 » Sun Mar 8, 2020 1:34 am

...i mean we are going to sit here and act like Brett didn't outcoach him last year orrrrrrr
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#57 » by PhillyPhilly » Sun Mar 8, 2020 2:23 am

Mik317 wrote:...i mean we are going to sit here and act like Brett didn't outcoach him last year orrrrrrr


That's something I've thought about too but let's be fair, the gap In talent was pretty big between the two teams. Embiid, Simmons, Harris, Reddick and Butler against DLO, Levert, Allen, Harris and Dinwiddie? No contest. The nets did give us problems In the regular season though which is what I'm looking at.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#58 » by XtremeDunkz » Sun Mar 8, 2020 3:23 am

the_process wrote:I would be good with any of Jeff Van Gundy, Kenny Atkinson, Tyronne Lue, or Jay Wright at this point.


Every time I hear JVG commentate one of our games I am convinced he knows how to get the best out of the guys we have. Whether that translates into reality is another thing, but Id be fine with it.
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Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#59 » by the_process » Sun Mar 8, 2020 4:00 am

Mik317 wrote:...i mean we are going to sit here and act like Brett didn't outcoach him last year orrrrrrr


Was that outcoaching or out-talenting? I tend to think the latter.
HartfordWhalers wrote:The Tobias Harris trade was set your pants on fire while wearing them bad at the time. And still is.
kio80
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Posts: 644
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Joined: Nov 22, 2018
 

Re: Who would you have as head coach? 

Post#60 » by kio80 » Sun Mar 8, 2020 4:01 am

You can get the best coach in the world to coach this team and it won’t make a difference, cause the main problem is Elton Brand.


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