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Championship hopes

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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#161 » by Filthadelphia » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:25 am

Until Brett decides he wants to use set plays or until Simmons decides to take a star's usage as a scorer this doesnt solve a thing.

Brown's throwing **** at the wall
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#162 » by sixers hoops » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:03 am

Sixerscan wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:He mentioned Ben will play the 4. Is not sure which forward position he and Tobias are best suited for, but I believe I heard Larry Brown mention that he thought Tobias needs to guard fours. Brett has said he is not a big fan of cross-switching matchups.

I think long term we need to replace Josh with a high level shooter at the two, but this lineup still works for me short-term.

Even if Ben is playing the 4 I feel like teams will still cover him with a 3 to handle the transition threat.

Ben has cross matched a bunch over the years I feel like? It was more a concern with someone like Okafor instead of a smart elite defender Like Ben.


Yeah, he has definitely cross-matched a lot. I’m just hanging onto a Brett comment prior to Ben’s first game. It prob not very relevant anymore.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#163 » by rzzzzz » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:23 am

Filthadelphia wrote:
Brown's throwing **** at the wall


its about time. Einstein says doing the same thing over and over and expecting change is insanity. i thought the change would have to be Brett, and that still can well be the case. but trying something different, giving Shake a real chance, and picking up on some of those sly moves Ben was showing through the lane just before he got hurt, are really kind of intriguing. now i can't wait for the playoffs.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#164 » by 76ciology » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:18 am

sixers hoops wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:He mentioned Ben will play the 4. Is not sure which forward position he and Tobias are best suited for, but I believe I heard Larry Brown mention that he thought Tobias needs to guard fours. Brett has said he is not a big fan of cross-switching matchups.

I think long term we need to replace Josh with a high level shooter at the two, but this lineup still works for me short-term.

Even if Ben is playing the 4 I feel like teams will still cover him with a 3 to handle the transition threat.

Ben has cross matched a bunch over the years I feel like? It was more a concern with someone like Okafor instead of a smart elite defender Like Ben.


Yeah, he has definitely cross-matched a lot. I’m just hanging onto a Brett comment prior to Ben’s first game. It prob not very relevant anymore.


The smart thing is to put your 4 on Ben and have both your 4&5 sag off Ben and Biid to deny any chance of shots at the rim. AKA, Bucks and 2018 Celts defense against us.

But nevertheless, teams are gonna play us this way and Ben at PF is the best way to counter this by allowing more guys who can hurt our opponents by their perimeter shooting
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#165 » by 76ciology » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:20 am

Mik317 wrote:still not sure how taking Ben off ball makes much sense if he is not going to take jumpers.

PNR with him as the roller is interesting but that will also mean EMbiid has to space more.

idk but I am glad they are trying something.


I think Ben at PF doesnt mean him playing off ball. Maybe he plays a more aggressive wing like a baby Giannis like how he did when he went saiyan (not super saiyan) to start the year.

P.S. looking at the tapes. Milton-Ben two man action has a lot of promise
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#166 » by ankle420breaker » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:39 am

Intrigued to see Ben at the 4 and relieved that Brett seems open to shaking things up and bringing Horford off the bench.

Ideally we just slide Harris to the 4 when Horford checks in. I could see transitioning from the starters to a Simmons, Burks, Thybulle, Harris, Horford lineup after first subs, then plugging in Korkmaz & GRIII as our 9th & 10th guys.



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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#167 » by youngcrev » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:20 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:Intrigued to see Ben at the 4 and relieved that Brett seems open to shaking things up and bringing Horford off the bench.

Ideally we just slide Harris to the 4 when Horford checks in. I could see transitioning from the starters to a Simmons, Burks, Thybulle, Harris, Horford lineup after first subs, then plugging in Korkmaz & GRIII as our 9th & 10th guys.



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I wouldn't mind seeing Harris and Richardson flipping staggers, particularly with how bad Mike Scott has been this year. JRich/Simmons/Horford and Milton/Harris/Embiid with various bench wings filling in depending on need.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#168 » by sixers hoops » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:47 pm

76ciology wrote:
Mik317 wrote:still not sure how taking Ben off ball makes much sense if he is not going to take jumpers.

PNR with him as the roller is interesting but that will also mean EMbiid has to space more.

idk but I am glad they are trying something.


I think Ben at PF doesnt mean him playing off ball. Maybe he plays a more aggressive wing like a baby Giannis like how he did when he went saiyan (not super saiyan) to start the year.

P.S. looking at the tapes. Milton-Ben two man action has a lot of promise


I think he will definitely play more off the ball, which I think worries people because you have a star that you are essentially trying to hide on offense. Ben is an elite player in so many areas, but initiating the offense coming across halfcourt, he is just wasting 8 seconds pounding air out of the ball with nobody guarding him. He is historically reluctant to shoot the ball, so I think this will see him touching the ball less, but our offense being more effective.

He will still initiate the offense a good chunk of the time in transition. He can run the point against certain mismatches. He has nice moves around the basket, although he seemed to struggle finishing a lot earlier this season. He is a beast when attacking the basket with a head of steam with his combination of speed, ball handling, and quickness. He is super athletic and can rebound and get putbacks. As you mentioned, he can be used as a roll man. And it’s more realistic that he develops a 10-12 footer in the near future than he does a reliable three point shot.

I think this has the ability to make us faster, more athletic, and a better shooting first unit. And if Ben keeps improving he will touch the ball plenty. Then when Joel sits, he gets more shooting around him to create space to operate, so he may touch the ball more when Joel sits.

We make this change after we start losing every year in the playoffs anyway. Might as well work Ben at the four with the first unit now so he can start to get comfortable, and try to expand his offensive repertoire through a mini training camp and eight game play-in stretch.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#169 » by Eyeamok » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:16 pm

sixers hoops wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Read on Twitter


That's a relief.


Just mentioned by Rich Hoffman too. This was my biggest gripe with Brown, using the guy that has no perimeter game to initiate the offense from the perimeter. Now Ben can still run the point off the break, but allow someone who has to be guarded to initiate the offense from the perimeter. Ben is dynamic and will still have a lot of opportunities to handle the ball, but I love Shake being the primary ball handler in the half court.


I agree with your post. I also think that Simmons has bought into how this would be best for the team. From all indications Simmons is a stubborn young man. He wants to do things his way and forget what everyone else thinks. Perhaps the injury and just having time off has helped him to mature some. Maybe and just maybe he is thinking more team first than just Simmons first.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#170 » by Eyeamok » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:31 pm

Mik317 wrote:being that guy but the fact that our season hangs on the balance of a former 55 pick and our best shooter is a dude we were going to let walk...is pretty sad no?


Actually it's pretty fabulous if it works out. It's like that book acres of diamonds. Guy sells his assets and travels the world to find his fortune, returns home broke. Only to find out that the guy he sold his property to dug in the backyard and uncovered a diamond mine.

A lot of our assets were squandered/ the team did not get maximum value for. But Shake and Kork were picked later on and they were developed. They took a lot of their development on their own shoulders and now we will see if it pays off and if it does. It's a great story.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#171 » by VDT » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:01 pm

It is the correct move but making this kind of changes on your lineup this late in the season is basically admitting defeat and hoping for a miracle. We will see how it works, but a lineup of Milton, Richardson, Harris, Simmons and Embiid feels a bit lacking in playoff experience which is usually required to go deep in the playoffs. Also having Milton run your half court offense is asking for trouble. He has been surprisingly good thus far, but it was the regular season and the low expectations that lead to that. Now in the playoffs and with much higher expectations from him it is a completely different ballgame and i would be surprised if he doesnt disappoint to a degree.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#172 » by Negrodamus » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:31 pm

I'm kind of confused why the ESPN talking heads are calling this a "desperate" move. It's the only move that makes sense. If the plan is to maximize Embiid and Simmons, they need to have someone else who can create offense while being an above average three point shooter. To me, Shake isn't the question heading into the playoffs. Tobias and JRich are the concern as they have not shown great promise for hitting 3s this year.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#173 » by Tony Franciosa » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:36 pm

VDT wrote:It is the correct move but making this kind of changes on your lineup this late in the season is basically admitting defeat and hoping for a miracle. We will see how it works, but a lineup of Milton, Richardson, Harris, Simmons and Embiid feels a bit lacking in playoff experience which is usually required to go deep in the playoffs. Also having Milton run your half court offense is asking for trouble. He has been surprisingly good thus far, but it was the regular season and the low expectations that lead to that. Now in the playoffs and with much higher expectations from him it is a completely different ballgame and i would be surprised if he doesnt disappoint to a degree.


or this early in the season. :evil:
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#174 » by Negrodamus » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:50 pm

VDT wrote:It is the correct move but making this kind of changes on your lineup this late in the season is basically admitting defeat and hoping for a miracle. We will see how it works, but a lineup of Milton, Richardson, Harris, Simmons and Embiid feels a bit lacking in playoff experience which is usually required to go deep in the playoffs. Also having Milton run your half court offense is asking for trouble. He has been surprisingly good thus far, but it was the regular season and the low expectations that lead to that. Now in the playoffs and with much higher expectations from him it is a completely different ballgame and i would be surprised if he doesnt disappoint to a degree.


Our offense isn't really designed to let the main ball handler create offense. Usually Ben dribbles it down and passes it to a guy coming off a screen. If we were a PnR heavy offense, I'd definitely agree. I think Ben, Shake, Tobias, and JRich (but mostly Ben) will be the guys handling the ball off a rebound and into a fast break. However, if the defense is already set, might as well put Ben in the best position to get him towards the basket; especially if we have a beneficial mismatch.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#175 » by Negrodamus » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:06 pm



Here's what our offense could look like. Smart players like Ben and Shake figure each other out on how to get each other the ball. Obviously this game left a bad taste in our mouths for a variety of reasons: lost the game to a bad team, defense was poor, Trae Young went absolutely nuts. But four of our starters (Ben, Tobias, Embiid, Shake) went for 20+ and had an all around great offensive game. Obviously this is somewhat anecdotal, but it's promising to see. Additionally, we didn't have JRich who could have been an option on Trae Young instead of Thybulle who got absolutely exposed. Us at full force could be interesting.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#176 » by VDT » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:12 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
VDT wrote:It is the correct move but making this kind of changes on your lineup this late in the season is basically admitting defeat and hoping for a miracle. We will see how it works, but a lineup of Milton, Richardson, Harris, Simmons and Embiid feels a bit lacking in playoff experience which is usually required to go deep in the playoffs. Also having Milton run your half court offense is asking for trouble. He has been surprisingly good thus far, but it was the regular season and the low expectations that lead to that. Now in the playoffs and with much higher expectations from him it is a completely different ballgame and i would be surprised if he doesnt disappoint to a degree.


Our offense isn't really designed to let the main ball handler create offense. Usually Ben dribbles it down and passes it to a guy coming off a screen. If we were a PnR heavy offense, I'd definitely agree. I think Ben, Shake, Tobias, and JRich (but mostly Ben) will be the guys handling the ball off a rebound and into a fast break. However, if the defense is already set, might as well put Ben in the best position to get him towards the basket; especially if we have a beneficial mismatch.


Yes Milton running the offense was an exaggeration on my part, but since they say that Simmons will be the official PF i assume in the half court he will not really handle the ball. So it would be up to Harris, Richardson and Milton to make plays and Richardson and Harris are not very good at creating for others anyway. So probably they count on Milton to run some plays, unless they plan to just run isos in the half court which also doesnt sound that exciting either.

We will see, i am just afraid that the higher intensity and the higher stakes in the postseason will impact Milton's game.

I am also wondering if Simmons moving to PF will be something permanent and what does this mean for his future as a player.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#177 » by Sixerscan » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:32 pm

VDT wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
VDT wrote:It is the correct move but making this kind of changes on your lineup this late in the season is basically admitting defeat and hoping for a miracle. We will see how it works, but a lineup of Milton, Richardson, Harris, Simmons and Embiid feels a bit lacking in playoff experience which is usually required to go deep in the playoffs. Also having Milton run your half court offense is asking for trouble. He has been surprisingly good thus far, but it was the regular season and the low expectations that lead to that. Now in the playoffs and with much higher expectations from him it is a completely different ballgame and i would be surprised if he doesnt disappoint to a degree.


Our offense isn't really designed to let the main ball handler create offense. Usually Ben dribbles it down and passes it to a guy coming off a screen. If we were a PnR heavy offense, I'd definitely agree. I think Ben, Shake, Tobias, and JRich (but mostly Ben) will be the guys handling the ball off a rebound and into a fast break. However, if the defense is already set, might as well put Ben in the best position to get him towards the basket; especially if we have a beneficial mismatch.


Yes Milton running the offense was an exaggeration on my part, but since they say that Simmons will be the official PF i assume in the half court he will not really handle the ball. So it would be up to Harris, Richardson and Milton to make plays and Richardson and Harris are not very good at creating for others anyway. So probably they count on Milton to run some plays, unless they plan to just run isos in the half court which also doesnt sound that exciting either.

We will see, i am just afraid that the higher intensity and the higher stakes in the postseason will impact Milton's game.

I am also wondering if Simmons moving to PF will be something permanent and what does this mean for his future as a player.


I don’t think that is so different though? Like it’s been so rare that we’ve had everyone healthy but when they were Tobias and Jrich initiated sets a lot. I watched the clippers game before the break recently (basically the only healthy game of 2020) and down the stretch it was all Jrich making plays.

Simmons is such a weird player that even if he’s going to play the “4” it’s not gonna be clear what that really means until we see it on the court.

Agreed that it remains to be seen whether Shake can stay on the court in a playoff game. Or even just if he can be an effective player as the 5th best guy on the court instead of getting all the touches with Ben and jo out or even in the g league last year.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#178 » by sixers hoops » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:57 pm

Eyeamok wrote:
Mik317 wrote:being that guy but the fact that our season hangs on the balance of a former 55 pick and our best shooter is a dude we were going to let walk...is pretty sad no?


Actually it's pretty fabulous if it works out. It's like that book acres of diamonds. Guy sells his assets and travels the world to find his fortune, returns home broke. Only to find out that the guy he sold his property to dug in the backyard and uncovered a diamond mine.

A lot of our assets were squandered/ the team did not get maximum value for. But Shake and Kork were picked later on and they were developed. They took a lot of their development on their own shoulders and now we will see if it pays off and if it does. It's a great story.


Thybulle is a really good value for his draft position too.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#179 » by sixers hoops » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:07 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
VDT wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Our offense isn't really designed to let the main ball handler create offense. Usually Ben dribbles it down and passes it to a guy coming off a screen. If we were a PnR heavy offense, I'd definitely agree. I think Ben, Shake, Tobias, and JRich (but mostly Ben) will be the guys handling the ball off a rebound and into a fast break. However, if the defense is already set, might as well put Ben in the best position to get him towards the basket; especially if we have a beneficial mismatch.


Yes Milton running the offense was an exaggeration on my part, but since they say that Simmons will be the official PF i assume in the half court he will not really handle the ball. So it would be up to Harris, Richardson and Milton to make plays and Richardson and Harris are not very good at creating for others anyway. So probably they count on Milton to run some plays, unless they plan to just run isos in the half court which also doesnt sound that exciting either.

We will see, i am just afraid that the higher intensity and the higher stakes in the postseason will impact Milton's game.

I am also wondering if Simmons moving to PF will be something permanent and what does this mean for his future as a player.


I don’t think that is so different though? Like it’s been so rare that we’ve had everyone healthy but when they were Tobias and Jrich initiated sets a lot. I watched the clippers game before the break recently (basically the only healthy game of 2020) and down the stretch it was all Jrich making plays.

Simmons is such a weird player that even if he’s going to play the “4” it’s not gonna be clear what that really means until we see it on the court.

Agreed that it remains to be seen whether Shake can stay on the court in a playoff game. Or even just if he can be an effective player as the 5th best guy on the court instead of getting all the touches with Ben and jo out or even in the g league last year.


I expect some Shake growing pains, but it’s our best option. After Furkan had a few lights out games, fans thought we developed an All-Star. I think Milton’s huge game really raised expectations very high for him. His shooting should regress some and he will have some tough defensive assignments, but I think he will be okay. I think losing with Shake, Furkan, and Thybulle playing big roles is better than losing with Neto, Horford, and Mike Scott getting the minutes anyway. We need to develop those guys now, and they also prob give us the best chance to win now.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#180 » by sixers hoops » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:09 pm

I keep forgetting we got Glen Robinson and Burks.

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