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Championship hopes

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elchengue20
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#41 » by elchengue20 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:34 am

76ciology wrote:
rulebook wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
Even Giannis struggles in close games in the Playoffs. To win it all the Bucks need Middleton/Bledsoe to make plays. That's why i'm not so high on their chances like most people are. Maybe if Giannis continues to make his outside shot things will get a little easier for them this time.

If it were only a size issue, we should be in great shape. With Ben at PG,J-Rich, Tobias, Horford and Embiid we have the biggest lineup in the NBA. That's is our plan, to create mismatches size wise. The problem is most of them aren't good one on one scorers and playmakers, they won't punish mismaches consistenly.

I think it's more of a skill issue. You need players who can create shots in the half court for himself and for others, specially when things get harder in the Playoffs. We only have Biid and as we said, Center is the most difficult position to rely on in those situations, they get doubled more easily.

I get that with our current lineup defense can be great, but still i don't think you can win a championship if your lacking that kind of player. The closest thing we had was Jimmy and we let him walk away. Plus, if you take account that our spacing isn't great, things gets even more difficult in that regard.


Agree. I tend to think we romanticize jimmy’s playoff heroics, but the reality is that we went from having “a guy” to having none. That will hurt.


We wont have “a guy” we will have “the guys”.

The problem with “a guy” you need to have drafted a guy like Giannis in 2013 or a LeBron type player who can win 99% of the match-ups. Jimmy is not that good enough to be “the guy”. He isn’t that good of a shooter or has more than elite length to win most match-ups.

Personally I think Ben and Biid can be better “guys” if we can slide them down, because they are high fg% scorers thr can pose a bigger mismatch than butler can.


I didn't say Jimmy was that kind of player. I didn't expect him to drop 30 a night. Embiid and the rest of the team can carry the load a lot,but you need someone to close the games, or to give you a few buckets in key moments of the game when things get ugly.

Also i didn't say that with Jimmy we would be a tittle favorite, but i'm sure we would have been better than now. Obviously with a Khawi instead of him we would be nearly unstopabble.

A lot of people talks about San Antonio team game and don't realize they had two geniuses like Parker and Ginobili.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#42 » by 76ciology » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:36 am

elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
It's very difficult nowadays to rely on your PF/C to be the go to player. I think only Hakeem won a championship playing that way and still had good shoters and a couple of shot creators around him. Even Shaq needed a Hardaway/Kobe/Wade to make plays for him. Kareem needed Magic. AD as the go to player only played in mediocre teams.

If you don't have a consistent shot creator in the half court, at least you need great spacing, like the Howard Orlando Magic teams(still had Turkoglu and Nelson who were decent shot creators). We don't have neither of those things.

Sure, Ben could learn to shoot and our fit problems would be mainly solved. But i don't see that happening. He hasn't improved in 3 years, he's basically the same player. At this point is more probable to expect Embiid to become an volume above average shooter.


My thoughts exactly and you can backtrack to one of my similar post about this.

It’s a size issue. Centers faced the biggest and best defenders on almost every night. It takes a freak like Shaq or Wilt to be dominant. I think we’re seeing Giannis as really the modern day center. Anyway, I dont see Biid being in that category. And if he does, you have to worry his health.

For me, to make Biid the best or one of the top 3-5 players in the league, you have to slide him to PF where he can take advantage among all PFs and also have the footspeed to stay with them.

Healthwise, losing weight and having also a refined perimeter game helps his longevity and compliments Ben better.

In the end, its the FO’s responsibility to put the players in favorable stage to perform better. And I think Biid at C and having a mobile PF defend Ben is not the way to go. I mean, sure you can have a +1 million NetRtg 5 man unit and brag it on twitter. But come the playoffs, smart team will just neutralized like a yearly parade of the emperor without clothes.

*I already looked at it. PFs had good track record


Even Giannis struggles in close games in the Playoffs. To win it all the Bucks need Middleton/Bledsoe to make plays. That's why i'm not so high on their chances like most people are. Maybe if Giannis continues to make his outside shot things will get a little easier for them this time.

If it were only a size issue, we should be in great shape. With Ben at PG,J-Rich, Tobias, Horford and Embiid we have the biggest lineup in the NBA. That's is our plan, to create mismatches size wise. The problem is most of them aren't good one on one scorers and playmakers, they won't punish mismaches consistenly.

I think it's more of a skill issue. You need players who can create shots in the half court for himself and for others, specially when things get harder in the Playoffs. We only have Biid and as we said, Center is the most difficult position to rely on in those situations, they get doubled more easily.

I get that with our current lineup defense can be great, but still i don't think you can win a championship if your lacking that kind of player. The closest thing we had was Jimmy and we let him walk away. Plus, if you take account that our spacing isn't great, things gets even more difficult in that regard.


I was thinking about this the other day.

I think the problem with the double team at the post is when the center is involved. Because the center then becomes a goalie to protect the rim.

What most of the modern contenders do is they have a stretch 5 with having a more than elite star caliber PF at the paint. Biid can handle double against a PF and a wing or guard, he should have better court vision and when it misses they can crash the board. Another thing with a 5 at the perimeter is they dont have strong footspeed to make good closeouts, that allows you to strengthen your dribble drive attack to compensate having poor dribblers. Imagine BroLo closing out on Al. Al is not that quick with the ball but im sure he can attack the closeout of Brolo.

Then another thing is spacing. First off, we have more floor spacers on the court this season compared to last season given that Butler and Ben are non shooters. Second, i think spacing can be a misconception that favors the 3 ball when I think if you can generate a 4v5 situation at the post with the center outside the paint, that can also spell good spacing even if you have your guys inside the 3pt line.

In the end, its this. It’s not ideal. I love watching the pre durant warriors. I love watching the beautiful game of the Spurs. I hate post ups (only my Jah can burn my desire for this). But this is the cards we’re dealt with.

I think we’re going to try to make a run with this style. Sliding our guys down a position with Al. Neutralizing and creating mismatch. Bullyball. 4 out at most times. Hope for organic growth for our guys (i.e Biid and Ben developing). Then if it fails (likely because we can’t sustain this much salary and talent), then we will have to trade one of Biid or Ben and favor better fits.

Until then, enjoy the ride.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#43 » by 76ciology » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:41 am

elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
rulebook wrote:
Agree. I tend to think we romanticize jimmy’s playoff heroics, but the reality is that we went from having “a guy” to having none. That will hurt.


We wont have “a guy” we will have “the guys”.

The problem with “a guy” you need to have drafted a guy like Giannis in 2013 or a LeBron type player who can win 99% of the match-ups. Jimmy is not that good enough to be “the guy”. He isn’t that good of a shooter or has more than elite length to win most match-ups.

Personally I think Ben and Biid can be better “guys” if we can slide them down, because they are high fg% scorers thr can pose a bigger mismatch than butler can.


I didn't say Jimmy was that kind of player. I didn't expect him to drop 30 a night. Embiid and the rest of the team can carry the load a lot,but you need someone to close the games, or to give you a few buckets in key moments of the game when things get ugly.

Also i didn't say that with Jimmy we would be a tittle favorite, but i'm sure we would have been better than now. Obviously with a Khawi instead of him we would be nearly unstopabble.

A lot of people talks about San Antonio team game and don't realize they had two geniuses like Parker and Ginobili.


Do you have faith on Ben and Jojo?

Because we’re going to rely on them this time around. They have to live up to their potential.

We’re going to put them on favorable match-up situations with atleast 4 shooters at most times.

We’re going to win it sort of our way.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#44 » by elchengue20 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:57 am

76ciology wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
We wont have “a guy” we will have “the guys”.

The problem with “a guy” you need to have drafted a guy like Giannis in 2013 or a LeBron type player who can win 99% of the match-ups. Jimmy is not that good enough to be “the guy”. He isn’t that good of a shooter or has more than elite length to win most match-ups.

Personally I think Ben and Biid can be better “guys” if we can slide them down, because they are high fg% scorers thr can pose a bigger mismatch than butler can.


I didn't say Jimmy was that kind of player. I didn't expect him to drop 30 a night. Embiid and the rest of the team can carry the load a lot,but you need someone to close the games, or to give you a few buckets in key moments of the game when things get ugly.

Also i didn't say that with Jimmy we would be a tittle favorite, but i'm sure we would have been better than now. Obviously with a Khawi instead of him we would be nearly unstopabble.

A lot of people talks about San Antonio team game and don't realize they had two geniuses like Parker and Ginobili.


Do you have faith on Ben and Jojo?

Because we’re going to rely on them this time around. They have to live up to their potential.

We’re going to put them on favorable match-up situations with atleast 4 shooters at most times.

We’re going to win it sort of our way.



I trust Embiid a lot more than Ben. If he's in shape and plays smart he can be dominant. He still has to grow up a bit, the bad thing is he isn't showing much improvement in that regard.Plus he will get doubled a lot if others don't show up. So, a lot of IF with Embiid(conditioning, character, system fit). Maybe he can put it all together.

Ben is damn talented, if he ever improved a little he could be special. But he hasn't improved his shooting in any way( not even his damn FT's are decent). He is a total liabilty ofensively in close games.And he's even more inmature than Embiid. So no, i don't think you can rely on him a lot to make deep playoffs runs. Maybe he makes the leap we all have been waiting for, but i think its too soon for him yet. And at this point i dond't know if he ever bee. Maybe he has the Fultz curse(Somebody should be fired in our shooting and player development staff).
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#45 » by elchengue20 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 5:07 am

76ciology wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
My thoughts exactly and you can backtrack to one of my similar post about this.

It’s a size issue. Centers faced the biggest and best defenders on almost every night. It takes a freak like Shaq or Wilt to be dominant. I think we’re seeing Giannis as really the modern day center. Anyway, I dont see Biid being in that category. And if he does, you have to worry his health.

For me, to make Biid the best or one of the top 3-5 players in the league, you have to slide him to PF where he can take advantage among all PFs and also have the footspeed to stay with them.

Healthwise, losing weight and having also a refined perimeter game helps his longevity and compliments Ben better.

In the end, its the FO’s responsibility to put the players in favorable stage to perform better. And I think Biid at C and having a mobile PF defend Ben is not the way to go. I mean, sure you can have a +1 million NetRtg 5 man unit and brag it on twitter. But come the playoffs, smart team will just neutralized like a yearly parade of the emperor without clothes.

*I already looked at it. PFs had good track record


Even Giannis struggles in close games in the Playoffs. To win it all the Bucks need Middleton/Bledsoe to make plays. That's why i'm not so high on their chances like most people are. Maybe if Giannis continues to make his outside shot things will get a little easier for them this time.

If it were only a size issue, we should be in great shape. With Ben at PG,J-Rich, Tobias, Horford and Embiid we have the biggest lineup in the NBA. That's is our plan, to create mismatches size wise. The problem is most of them aren't good one on one scorers and playmakers, they won't punish mismaches consistenly.

I think it's more of a skill issue. You need players who can create shots in the half court for himself and for others, specially when things get harder in the Playoffs. We only have Biid and as we said, Center is the most difficult position to rely on in those situations, they get doubled more easily.

I get that with our current lineup defense can be great, but still i don't think you can win a championship if your lacking that kind of player. The closest thing we had was Jimmy and we let him walk away. Plus, if you take account that our spacing isn't great, things gets even more difficult in that regard.


I was thinking about this the other day.

I think the problem with the double team at the post is when the center is involved. Because the center then becomes a goalie to protect the rim.

What most of the modern contenders do is they have a stretch 5 with having a more than elite star caliber PF at the paint. Biid can handle double against a PF and a wing or guard, he should have better court vision and when it misses they can crash the board. Another thing with a 5 at the perimeter is they dont have strong footspeed to make good closeouts, that allows you to strengthen your dribble drive attack to compensate having poor dribblers. Imagine BroLo closing out on Al. Al is not that quick with the ball but im sure he can attack the closeout of Brolo.

Then another thing is spacing. First off, we have more floor spacers on the court this season compared to last season given that Butler and Ben are non shooters. Second, i think spacing can be a misconception that favors the 3 ball when I think if you can generate a 4v5 situation at the post with the center outside the paint, that can also spell good spacing even if you have your guys inside the 3pt line.

In the end, its this. It’s not ideal. I love watching the pre durant warriors. I love watching the beautiful game of the Spurs. I hate post ups (only my Jah can burn my desire for this). But this is the cards we’re dealt with.

I think we’re going to try to make a run with this style. Sliding our guys down a position with Al. Neutralizing and creating mismatch. Bullyball. 4 out at most times. Hope for organic growth for our guys (i.e Biid and Ben developing). Then if it fails (likely because we can’t sustain this much salary and talent), then we will have to trade one of Biid or Ben and favor better fits.

Until then, enjoy the ride.


Yes,i agree thats one of the mains problems with the C position. Our strategy has good logic, but i dont know if its going to work.I hope speccially Al Horford and also Tobias can attack closeouts consistenly.

I agree we still have a chance. The East is wideopen. I woudn't be shocked if the Bucks choke again. It woudn't be crazy if we beat them, we matchup well.The Finals against Lakers or Clippers would be a different animal tough. Also we could lose in the first round if Biid isn't healty, Ben dissapers in close games, Al/Tobias sudendly can't take advantage of a mismatch or something like that lol.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#46 » by 76ciology » Sat Jun 6, 2020 6:21 am

elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
I didn't say Jimmy was that kind of player. I didn't expect him to drop 30 a night. Embiid and the rest of the team can carry the load a lot,but you need someone to close the games, or to give you a few buckets in key moments of the game when things get ugly.

Also i didn't say that with Jimmy we would be a tittle favorite, but i'm sure we would have been better than now. Obviously with a Khawi instead of him we would be nearly unstopabble.

A lot of people talks about San Antonio team game and don't realize they had two geniuses like Parker and Ginobili.


Do you have faith on Ben and Jojo?

Because we’re going to rely on them this time around. They have to live up to their potential.

We’re going to put them on favorable match-up situations with atleast 4 shooters at most times.

We’re going to win it sort of our way.



I trust Embiid a lot more than Ben. If he's in shape and plays smart he can be dominant. He still has to grow up a bit, the bad thing is he isn't showing much improvement in that regard.Plus he will get doubled a lot if others don't show up. So, a lot of IF with Embiid(conditioning, character, system fit). Maybe he can put it all together.

Ben is damn talented, if he ever improved a little he could be special. But he hasn't improved his shooting in any way( not even his damn FT's are decent). He is a total liabilty ofensively in close games.And he's even more inmature than Embiid. So no, i don't think you can rely on him a lot to make deep playoffs runs. Maybe he makes the leap we all have been waiting for, but i think its too soon for him yet. And at this point i dond't know if he ever bee. Maybe he has the Fultz curse(Somebody should be fired in our shooting and player development staff).


Personally, I prefer Ben to be our alpha on offense. He’s just a better ball handler, passer and decision maker on the court. But you have to factor scoring which Biid is way better than Ben in this regard.

That said, we can go with either one of them depending on whichever match-up that is more favorable for us.

With regards to his shooting, I don’t think he’s comfortable with it. And i personally think that the people around him doesnt want him to jack up 3s for it will lower his value (considering he should be a sub par shooter). His people would prefer his shooting to be a mystery. An extra upside of how good he can be. And his numbers without shooting has been good so they dont want to mess up with it. And just as Biid, i dont think his guys want him to shoot perimeter shots and mess up his %s and give up the alpha role to Ben on offense. That’s just my guess.

But if Ben can shoot the 3s at atleast league average with volume (which is a big leap for him), i wouldnt be surprised if he’ll take them.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#47 » by SparksFly87 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 9:52 am

76ciology wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Do you have faith on Ben and Jojo?

Because we’re going to rely on them this time around. They have to live up to their potential.

We’re going to put them on favorable match-up situations with atleast 4 shooters at most times.

We’re going to win it sort of our way.



I trust Embiid a lot more than Ben. If he's in shape and plays smart he can be dominant. He still has to grow up a bit, the bad thing is he isn't showing much improvement in that regard.Plus he will get doubled a lot if others don't show up. So, a lot of IF with Embiid(conditioning, character, system fit). Maybe he can put it all together.

Ben is damn talented, if he ever improved a little he could be special. But he hasn't improved his shooting in any way( not even his damn FT's are decent). He is a total liabilty ofensively in close games.And he's even more inmature than Embiid. So no, i don't think you can rely on him a lot to make deep playoffs runs. Maybe he makes the leap we all have been waiting for, but i think its too soon for him yet. And at this point i dond't know if he ever bee. Maybe he has the Fultz curse(Somebody should be fired in our shooting and player development staff).


Personally, I prefer Ben to be our alpha on offense. He’s just a better ball handler, passer and decision maker on the court. But you have to factor scoring which Biid is way better than Ben in this regard.

That said, we can go with either one of them depending on whichever match-up that is more favorable for us.

With regards to his shooting, I don’t think he’s comfortable with it. And i personally think that the people around him doesnt want him to jack up 3s for it will lower his value (considering he should be a sub par shooter). His people would prefer his shooting to be a mystery. An extra upside of how good he can be. And his numbers without shooting has been good so they dont want to mess up with it. And just as Biid, i dont think his guys want him to shoot perimeter shots and mess up his %s and give up the alpha role to Ben on offense. That’s just my guess.

But if Ben can shoot the 3s at atleast league average with volume (which is a big leap for him), i wouldnt be surprised if he’ll take them.




Would moving Embiid for a shot creater on the wing such as Tatum or Ingram increase our chances of winning a chip with our current core Simmons, Tobias, Horford and JRich ?
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#48 » by youngcrev » Sat Jun 6, 2020 12:57 pm

SparksFly87 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:

I trust Embiid a lot more than Ben. If he's in shape and plays smart he can be dominant. He still has to grow up a bit, the bad thing is he isn't showing much improvement in that regard.Plus he will get doubled a lot if others don't show up. So, a lot of IF with Embiid(conditioning, character, system fit). Maybe he can put it all together.

Ben is damn talented, if he ever improved a little he could be special. But he hasn't improved his shooting in any way( not even his damn FT's are decent). He is a total liabilty ofensively in close games.And he's even more inmature than Embiid. So no, i don't think you can rely on him a lot to make deep playoffs runs. Maybe he makes the leap we all have been waiting for, but i think its too soon for him yet. And at this point i dond't know if he ever bee. Maybe he has the Fultz curse(Somebody should be fired in our shooting and player development staff).


Personally, I prefer Ben to be our alpha on offense. He’s just a better ball handler, passer and decision maker on the court. But you have to factor scoring which Biid is way better than Ben in this regard.

That said, we can go with either one of them depending on whichever match-up that is more favorable for us.

With regards to his shooting, I don’t think he’s comfortable with it. And i personally think that the people around him doesnt want him to jack up 3s for it will lower his value (considering he should be a sub par shooter). His people would prefer his shooting to be a mystery. An extra upside of how good he can be. And his numbers without shooting has been good so they dont want to mess up with it. And just as Biid, i dont think his guys want him to shoot perimeter shots and mess up his %s and give up the alpha role to Ben on offense. That’s just my guess.

But if Ben can shoot the 3s at atleast league average with volume (which is a big leap for him), i wouldnt be surprised if he’ll take them.




Would moving Embiid for a shot creater on the wing such as Tatum or Ingram increase our chances of winning a chip with our current core Simmons, Tobias, Horford and JRich ?


No, moving the best player on the team for a worse player doesn't get you closer to a championship. I'm not even sure someone like Luka gets you closer, though they'd certainly be a lot more exciting.

The current core is Ben and Jo. Those other guys are just support players (even the ones that aren't paid like it). They are the pieces you move for fit purposes.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#49 » by Kobblehead » Sat Jun 6, 2020 2:31 pm

76ciology wrote:We wont have “a guy” we will have “the guys”.

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree.

I don't think you can synthetically manufacture the impact that "a guy" typically gives a team by taking lesser players and hunting size mismatches.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#50 » by Kobblehead » Sat Jun 6, 2020 2:36 pm

SparksFly87 wrote:Would moving Embiid for a shot creater on the wing such as Tatum or Ingram increase our chances of winning a chip with our current core Simmons, Tobias, Horford and JRich ?

For maximized gains, Simmons would be the one to move.

Until he unlocks his scoring and proves he's capable of being a star building block, we should constantly have our head on a swivel looking to get value for him.

If he's just going to be a Josh Smith or Andre Iguodala level scorer, we should probably move him now because Embiid needs a true star running mate to give us the best chances of winning it all.

I'm not sure if you can win a title in the modern NBA with Ben Simmons as your 2nd best player. Most contenders these days tend to have two guys capable of being #1s.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#51 » by VDT » Sat Jun 6, 2020 2:39 pm

Yea it is very hard to win like that. Hunting mismatches can help, but you generally need a player that is a mismatch by himself to win the title.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#52 » by elchengue20 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:14 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
SparksFly87 wrote:Would moving Embiid for a shot creater on the wing such as Tatum or Ingram increase our chances of winning a chip with our current core Simmons, Tobias, Horford and JRich ?

For maximized gains, Simmons would be the one to move.

Until he unlocks his scoring and proves he's capable of being a star building block, we should constantly have our head on a swivel looking to get value for him

If he's just going to be a Josh Smith or Andre Iguodala level scorer, we should probably move him now because Embiid needs a true star running mate to give us the best chances of winning it all.

I'm not sure if you can win a title in the modern NBA with Ben Simmons as your 2nd best player. Most contenders these days tend to have two guys capable of being #1s.


I agree 100%, i'm glad others can see this.

Fit between your 1/2 punch is as important(maybe even more) than the fit of the complementary players. Plus, fit between all players is related.

It makes no sense to say i don't care if Simmons and Embiid fit, we just have to find players who fit around them.

Simmons at this point is a poor mans Giannis(worse scoring, shooting, defense, rebounding,better passer) or a rich man Josh Smith. Very good player for sure,but for now he's not even close to being able to carry a team deep in the Playoffs. Your alpha can't be a player who is a liabilty scoring wise.Your 2nd o 3rd option can't be a bad fit.

A lot of his value and status still relies on potential and mystery. Every game he plays without shooting his value decreases. I would trade him for better fits around Embiid, sooner then latter while i can get a haul for him. I think there is still some GMs who wants to bet big on his potential. Plus, hes younger/healthier than Embiid, so yes, you can get a better package for him.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#53 » by rulebook » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:38 pm

elchengue20 wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:
SparksFly87 wrote:Would moving Embiid for a shot creater on the wing such as Tatum or Ingram increase our chances of winning a chip with our current core Simmons, Tobias, Horford and JRich ?

For maximized gains, Simmons would be the one to move.

Until he unlocks his scoring and proves he's capable of being a star building block, we should constantly have our head on a swivel looking to get value for him.

If he's just going to be a Josh Smith or Andre Iguodala level scorer, we should probably move him now because Embiid needs a true star running mate to give us the best chances of winning it all.

I'm not sure if you can win a title in the modern NBA with Ben Simmons as your 2nd best player. Most contenders these days tend to have two guys capable of being #1s.


I agree 100%, i'm glad others can see this.

Fit between your 1/2 punch is as important(maybe even more) than the fit of the complementary players. Plus, fit between all players is related.

It makes no sense to say i don't care if Simmons and Embiid fit, we just have to find players who fit around them.

Simmons at this point is a poor mans Giannis(worse scoring, shooting, defense, rebounding,better passer) or a rich man Josh Smith. Very good player for sure,but for now he's not even close to being able to carry a team deep in the Playoffs. Your alpha can't be a player who is a liabilty scoring wise.Your 2nd o 3rd option can't be a bad fit.

A lot of his value and status still relies on potential and mystery. Every game he plays without shooting his value decreases. I would trade him for better fits around Embiid, sooner then latter while i can get a haul for him.


Simmons and Embiid do fit. The numbers bear it out. Neither are ideal together, I understand.

I don't think you can compare ben to Giannis. Compare Giannis to Embiid. Giannis isn't locking down players on the perimeter or running the offense. Ben is a more valuable overall defender.

I think the choice is obvious: build around Ben and Embiid. Don't think we can go far until we have a shot creator, though. We need a guy who can get his when the chips are down; a guy who can make shots he shouldn't make against playoff defenses when it's absolutely critical. A "no way he makes that" guy. Like Jimmy (but not Jimmy). Like Tony Parker if it were 2005. Like Van Fleet. Like Fultz was supposed to be. We don't need our best player(s) to be our closer. Obviously that would be ideal, but we need to go to war with the core we have.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#54 » by elchengue20 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 4:55 pm

Ben is very similar to Giannis from a fit standpoint. He plays a similar role. Giannis overall is way better obviously.

If you build around Ben or Giannis, you need an stretch 5 rim protector(even more with Ben) and a star guard who is a very good shooter and playmaker/shotcreator.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#55 » by 76ciology » Sat Jun 6, 2020 5:14 pm

VDT wrote:Yea it is very hard to win like that. Hunting mismatches can help, but you generally need a player that is a mismatch by himself to win the title.


If you watch how top teams play even Rockets or Warriors hunts mismatches.

NBA playoffs has become a heavy ISO game because teams are now advanced in their ability to switch and pre-switch the screen plays. A good example is how hard it is for our sets to work in the playoffs compared in the regular season.

So by inserting Al and sliding Ben, Biid and Tobi. They are “mismatch by himself”. Guards are too small to guard Tobi or Ben while PFs are not big enough to defend Biid.

The key is, our guys have to be able to defend guys lower their position. Which if you notice, is something we’re doing. Biid was on Siakam and Giannis most times when we faced them. Tobi improved his footspeed on defense while Ben has been defending point guards.

The problem with our team, IMO. Was we focused too much on that type of style that we moved away from the Jj-Biid DHO which kills most teams in the regular season (and doesnt work that well in the playoffs). So we were looking for furkan, Milton, Burks and maybe GRob to generate it for us.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#56 » by 76ciology » Sat Jun 6, 2020 5:28 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
76ciology wrote:We wont have “a guy” we will have “the guys”.

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree.

I don't think you can synthetically manufacture the impact that "a guy" typically gives a team by taking lesser players and hunting size mismatches.


This is something we learned from the Celtics when they had 2-4 guys (including morris) who can attack mismatches. Crazy how they met the perfect opportunity to show it against our squad in the 2018 playoffs. The Celts practiced heavy 1v1 on their practice.

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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#57 » by thenbaman » Sat Jun 6, 2020 6:00 pm

Biid and simmons would be very rested and it would be the very first time they are rested like this going into a playoff series
think the sixers can go very far this year,of course they must stay healthy.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#58 » by Kobblehead » Sat Jun 6, 2020 6:47 pm

76ciology wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:
76ciology wrote:We wont have “a guy” we will have “the guys”.

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree.

I don't think you can synthetically manufacture the impact that "a guy" typically gives a team by taking lesser players and hunting size mismatches.


This is something we learned from the Celtics when they had 2-4 guys (including morris) who can attack mismatches. Crazy how they met the perfect opportunity to show it against our squad in the 2018 playoffs. The Celts practiced heavy 1v1 on their practice.



The Celtics had a handful of guys who could legitimately create their own shot and they sicked them on bad defenders.

I don't see the parallel between that situation and the situation with us that you're describing regarding having guys who aren't apt at creating their own shot relying solely on size mismatches to gain an advantage.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#59 » by VDT » Sat Jun 6, 2020 7:58 pm

76ciology wrote:
VDT wrote:Yea it is very hard to win like that. Hunting mismatches can help, but you generally need a player that is a mismatch by himself to win the title.


If you watch how top teams play even Rockets or Warriors hunts mismatches.

NBA playoffs has become a heavy ISO game because teams are now advanced in their ability to switch and pre-switch the screen plays. A good example is how hard it is for our sets to work in the playoffs compared in the regular season.

So by inserting Al and sliding Ben, Biid and Tobi. They are “mismatch by himself”. Guards are too small to guard Tobi or Ben while PFs are not big enough to defend Biid.

The key is, our guys have to be able to defend guys lower their position. Which if you notice, is something we’re doing. Biid was on Siakam and Giannis most times when we faced them. Tobi improved his footspeed on defense while Ben has been defending point guards.

The problem with our team, IMO. Was we focused too much on that type of style that we moved away from the Jj-Biid DHO which kills most teams in the regular season (and doesnt work that well in the playoffs). So we were looking for furkan, Milton, Burks and maybe GRob to generate it for us.


Rockets just have Harden and Westbrook and have built their entire team to accommodate them, to the point that they have no center.
They even traded the guy that Harden run pick and roll with because he couldnt shoot 3s.They dont hunt any matchups, they just give the ball to their best players and let them create.

Warriors had Durant who can score on anybody.

Also i am not sure why you want Embiid (or any other player) to defend a position down. The reason he did against the Bucks and the Raptors was that the PFs couldnt shoot 3s while the opposing centers camped the three point line. The whole idea was for him to stay in the paint. Most of the teams have Fs that can shoot so the situation is not the same.

Offensively, you cant force the other team to defend Embiid with their PF unless you can force a switch, in which case playing Horford is irrelevant if not detrimental.
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Re: Championship hopes 

Post#60 » by elchengue20 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 9:39 pm

GSW has ATG shooting and off the ball players in Curry and Thompson, is much easier to play a motion offense with those players, just moving the ball, setting screens looking for open shots or a clear mismatch.

Houston emphasize shooting a lot, they have Westbrook as their only interior player, sorounded by elite shooting. And Westbrook as bad a shooter as he is, he still is waaay better than Ben. He is closer to Embiid more then Ben in that regard. Also they have another ATG 1vs1 player, elite shooter in Harden playing at guard.

Simmons doesn't offer any of those things. With Embiid at least you know he can be a threat 1vs1 and dominate most matchups (tough he gets doubled more easily in the C position).

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