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Sixers v Celtics Round 1

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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#141 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:56 pm

phillynative wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:When tobi was struggling in game 2.

Would letting Burks play SG and Jrich sliding to SF the better move?

Play a Milton-Burks-JRich trio.

Raps run a small backcourt.
Blazers run a dame-cj-trent-nurkic-whiteside 5 man


This year’s deathball had CP3/Schroeder&SGA at 1,2&3 positions.


Dallas last night was killing the Clippers with Burke(lol), Curry and Hardaway Jr. The problem is, to run that type of offense you need a coach who actually knows what the **** is going on.


Peremeter offense ruling the NBA.


It is all about scoring on the ball nowadays, with 3pt shooting being a priority. It is why players like Embiid are dinosaurs in today's NBA, trading him while his value is at his peak is the only logical move now that our roster is kind of capped. I argued for many time against this notion that Big Man are dead, but reality just keeps spamming in front of my face.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#142 » by AI_Efficiency » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:14 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:
phillynative wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
Dallas last night was killing the Clippers with Burke(lol), Curry and Hardaway Jr. The problem is, to run that type of offense you need a coach who actually knows what the **** is going on.


Peremeter offense ruling the NBA.


It is all about scoring on the ball nowadays, with 3pt shooting being a priority. It is why players like Embiid are dinosaurs in today's NBA, trading him while his value is at his peak is the only logical move now that our roster is kind of capped. I argued for many time against this notion that Big Man are dead, but reality just keeps spamming in front of my face.

Lol it has only been two games, but Embiid is putting up 30 ppg on 64% true shooting. That is better than what Kawhi put up during his dominant playoffs last year. I don't think Embiid's play so far is evidence that a big man cannot work / be an efficient scorer on a contender. No one can do it alone, and Embiid just doesn't have other efficient scorers to help him. The team defense is also terrible, but that is likely some combination of the scheme and the abilities of our perimeter defenders to guard their perimeter guys.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#143 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:22 pm

AI_Efficiency wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:
phillynative wrote:
Peremeter offense ruling the NBA.


It is all about scoring on the ball nowadays, with 3pt shooting being a priority. It is why players like Embiid are dinosaurs in today's NBA, trading him while his value is at his peak is the only logical move now that our roster is kind of capped. I argued for many time against this notion that Big Man are dead, but reality just keeps spamming in front of my face.

Lol it has only been two games, but Embiid is putting up 30 ppg on 64% true shooting. That is better than what Kawhi put up during his dominant playoffs last year. I don't think Embiid's play so far is evidence that a big man cannot work / be an efficient scorer on a contender. No one can do it alone, and Embiid just doesn't have other efficient scorers to help him. The team defense is also terrible, but that is likely some combination of the scheme and the abilities of our perimeter defenders to guard their perimeter guys.


The evidence is that Embiid cannot be your first option on offense, there is no problem if he takes a lesser role, a 2nd or 3rd option depending on the roster construction, and he could conserve more energy to play proper defense, which clearly it's nowhere to be seen from him these days. However, with our current roster construction and situation, I don't see who is that 1st option that we could get?
Embiid can score no doubt, but not when things get tough, he just disappears, be it because of stamina issues or god knows why, he is not a reliable scoring option if you want to win a championship.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#144 » by phillynative » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:56 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:
phillynative wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
Dallas last night was killing the Clippers with Burke(lol), Curry and Hardaway Jr. The problem is, to run that type of offense you need a coach who actually knows what the **** is going on.


Peremeter offense ruling the NBA.


It is all about scoring on the ball nowadays, with 3pt shooting being a priority. It is why players like Embiid are dinosaurs in today's NBA, trading him while his value is at his peak is the only logical move now that our roster is kind of capped. I argued for many time against this notion that Big Man are dead, but reality just keeps spamming in front of my face.


Yes scoring on the ball the sixers have not prioritized that for a long time.

Trade Embiid for who?
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#145 » by Mik317 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:13 pm

i like how some of yall just take any breadcrumb to validate your narrative and just run with it; context be damned
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#146 » by VDT » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:30 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:
AI_Efficiency wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:
It is all about scoring on the ball nowadays, with 3pt shooting being a priority. It is why players like Embiid are dinosaurs in today's NBA, trading him while his value is at his peak is the only logical move now that our roster is kind of capped. I argued for many time against this notion that Big Man are dead, but reality just keeps spamming in front of my face.

Lol it has only been two games, but Embiid is putting up 30 ppg on 64% true shooting. That is better than what Kawhi put up during his dominant playoffs last year. I don't think Embiid's play so far is evidence that a big man cannot work / be an efficient scorer on a contender. No one can do it alone, and Embiid just doesn't have other efficient scorers to help him. The team defense is also terrible, but that is likely some combination of the scheme and the abilities of our perimeter defenders to guard their perimeter guys.


The evidence is that Embiid cannot be your first option on offense, there is no problem if he takes a lesser role, a 2nd or 3rd option depending on the roster construction, and he could conserve more energy to play proper defense, which clearly it's nowhere to be seen from him these days. However, with our current roster construction and situation, I don't see who is that 1st option that we could get?
Embiid can score no doubt, but not when things get tough, he just disappears, be it because of stamina issues or god knows why, he is not a reliable scoring option if you want to win a championship.


No one is going to trade you a championship caliber first option (Leonard was the once in a few decades exception). Trading Embiid could only net you potentially a second/third option so even if you dont view him as a first option you are still not going anywhere.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#147 » by elchengue20 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:51 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:
AI_Efficiency wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:
It is all about scoring on the ball nowadays, with 3pt shooting being a priority. It is why players like Embiid are dinosaurs in today's NBA, trading him while his value is at his peak is the only logical move now that our roster is kind of capped. I argued for many time against this notion that Big Man are dead, but reality just keeps spamming in front of my face.

Lol it has only been two games, but Embiid is putting up 30 ppg on 64% true shooting. That is better than what Kawhi put up during his dominant playoffs last year. I don't think Embiid's play so far is evidence that a big man cannot work / be an efficient scorer on a contender. No one can do it alone, and Embiid just doesn't have other efficient scorers to help him. The team defense is also terrible, but that is likely some combination of the scheme and the abilities of our perimeter defenders to guard their perimeter guys.


The evidence is that Embiid cannot be your first option on offense, there is no problem if he takes a lesser role, a 2nd or 3rd option depending on the roster construction, and he could conserve more energy to play proper defense, which clearly it's nowhere to be seen from him these days. However, with our current roster construction and situation, I don't see who is that 1st option that we could get?
Embiid can score no doubt, but not when things get tough, he just disappears, be it because of stamina issues or god knows why, he is not a reliable scoring option if you want to win a championship.


Embiid can be 1B, or an elite second option. Maybe he can even be a 1rst option. But you need an elite perimeter scorer/playmaker alongisde him if you want to be a real contender. Just like Shaq had Kobe/Penny, Duncan had Parker/Ginobili, KG had Pierce/Allen, etc.

Ben isn't and is never going to be that kind of player. We need to trade him and try to bring Beal. Maybe Lavine, or something like that. Jimmy actually was very close to the player we need. We just had to soround him and Joel with 3+D guys and not fricking Tobias Harris.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#148 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:18 pm

elchengue20 wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:
AI_Efficiency wrote:Lol it has only been two games, but Embiid is putting up 30 ppg on 64% true shooting. That is better than what Kawhi put up during his dominant playoffs last year. I don't think Embiid's play so far is evidence that a big man cannot work / be an efficient scorer on a contender. No one can do it alone, and Embiid just doesn't have other efficient scorers to help him. The team defense is also terrible, but that is likely some combination of the scheme and the abilities of our perimeter defenders to guard their perimeter guys.


The evidence is that Embiid cannot be your first option on offense, there is no problem if he takes a lesser role, a 2nd or 3rd option depending on the roster construction, and he could conserve more energy to play proper defense, which clearly it's nowhere to be seen from him these days. However, with our current roster construction and situation, I don't see who is that 1st option that we could get?
Embiid can score no doubt, but not when things get tough, he just disappears, be it because of stamina issues or god knows why, he is not a reliable scoring option if you want to win a championship.


Embiid can be 1B, or an elite second option. Maybe he can even be a 1rst option. But you need an elite perimeter scorer/playmaker alongisde him if you want to be a real contender. Just like Shaq had Kobe/Penny, Duncan had Parker/Ginobili, KG had Pierce/Allen, etc.

Ben isn't and is never going to be that kind of player. We need to trade him and try to bring Beal. Maybe Lavine, or something like that. Jimmy actually was very close to the player we need. We just had to soround him and Joel with 3+D guys and not fricking Tobias Harris.


Agree, with Butler here we wouldn't be having this dilema at all, with Jimmy scoring on the ball, you could either add more shooters to try to "salvage" the inevitable bad fit of Embiid+Simmons, or later on choose between one or the other. Jimmy can score when Embiid disappears on offense, and this would allow Embiid to save energy to play better defense.
If you could net a good, maybe not great, shot creator trading Simmons then it is worth exploring IMO, I just think he is the player who has been held back the most by clueless Brett, and so his potential is higher and unexplored.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#149 » by Arsenal » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:25 pm

Before we give up on Ben Simmons, we need to get a coach in here who will FORCE him to start shooting, instead of coddling and indulging him like Brett Brown has done. Need a total hardass who will bench him if he refuses to shoot. For all his faults, I bet a guy like SVG would bring the hammer down. That is imperative for our next coach.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#150 » by kuclas » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:52 pm

The sixers blew at least 4-5 point blank layups the first 4-5 minute of the third quarter. That’s the game. You can’t leave 10 points off
The board. We are talking basic nba layups.

The shots just weren’t falling. It’s demoralizing especially when they had the early 14 point lead. When Tatum banked in that 28 foot 3 pointer. I just knew it wasn’t gonna to be our night.

I’m still keeping a positive outlook. It’s not like the Celtics are stopping the sixers with their defense. Game one was turnovers. Game 2 was about missing shots.

Playoffs are about attitude and focus. And things just unraveled once they got down 15 in the third.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#151 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:22 am

Bum Adebayo wrote:
phillynative wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
Dallas last night was killing the Clippers with Burke(lol), Curry and Hardaway Jr. The problem is, to run that type of offense you need a coach who actually knows what the **** is going on.


Peremeter offense ruling the NBA.


It is all about scoring on the ball nowadays, with 3pt shooting being a priority. It is why players like Embiid are dinosaurs in today's NBA, trading him while his value is at his peak is the only logical move now that our roster is kind of capped. I argued for many time against this notion that Big Man are dead, but reality just keeps spamming in front of my face.


Yes.

TLC is dropping atleast 20 a game and is now the face of the Nets. I’ll just leave it there.

Right now, it’s really about how strong the offensive firepower of your guards. And it’s not just shooting but shooting with creation. It’s pretty much what Kobble is saying about “closers”

My take away is that the 2 man game with a guard is very hard to stop. This is why Jrich is lowkey thriving this series. While Bucks are struggling with Bledsoe and GHill’s poor play.

Anyway, I think that we should explore inserting Burks or Neto whenever one of Jrich, Milton or Tobi is struggling. This would also maximize Al Horford.

Then if Al is struggling, replace him with Thybulle or Scott.

Then if Biid is sluggish, replace him with Pelle. I find Biid to be sluggish in the third quarter of g2. He had horrible body language.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#152 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:25 am

There are two active discussions now.

1 - this series
2 - off season

Let’s focus on this series.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#153 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:33 am

elchengue20 wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:
AI_Efficiency wrote:Lol it has only been two games, but Embiid is putting up 30 ppg on 64% true shooting. That is better than what Kawhi put up during his dominant playoffs last year. I don't think Embiid's play so far is evidence that a big man cannot work / be an efficient scorer on a contender. No one can do it alone, and Embiid just doesn't have other efficient scorers to help him. The team defense is also terrible, but that is likely some combination of the scheme and the abilities of our perimeter defenders to guard their perimeter guys.


The evidence is that Embiid cannot be your first option on offense, there is no problem if he takes a lesser role, a 2nd or 3rd option depending on the roster construction, and he could conserve more energy to play proper defense, which clearly it's nowhere to be seen from him these days. However, with our current roster construction and situation, I don't see who is that 1st option that we could get?
Embiid can score no doubt, but not when things get tough, he just disappears, be it because of stamina issues or god knows why, he is not a reliable scoring option if you want to win a championship.


Embiid can be 1B, or an elite second option. Maybe he can even be a 1rst option. But you need an elite perimeter scorer/playmaker alongisde him if you want to be a real contender. Just like Shaq had Kobe/Penny, Duncan had Parker/Ginobili, KG had Pierce/Allen, etc.

Ben isn't and is never going to be that kind of player. We need to trade him and try to bring Beal. Maybe Lavine, or something like that. Jimmy actually was very close to the player we need. We just had to soround him and Joel with 3+D guys and not fricking Tobias Harris.


Agree.

I think in terms of roster construction based on offense, a good model is the Celtics.

Biid can be as good of a scorer like Tatum. But he needs a Kemba, Hayward and Jaylen.

This is why I said Ben creates a domino effect of problems. Because you need to make him number 2, max him out, and have to give him the ball whenever he is on the court while not being the scorer. He is a below average scorer for a number of a championship team. A guy like Hayward, who is number 4 scorer for the Celts, is a better scorer than him.

Having Ben also means you can’t have Brogdon or Jimmy. Both also needs the ball to be maximized while both also are poor 3pt shooters.

Not saying Biid and Ben won’t work. But it just means you then need to ask a lot for your 3rd and 4th best players. They should be so good that Ben will look like a role player like Rajon Rondo with the Celts.

Anyway, we’re here and let’s just focus what we can extract in this series.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#154 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:00 am

kuclas wrote:The sixers blew at least 4-5 point blank layups the first 4-5 minute of the third quarter. That’s the game. You can’t leave 10 points off
The board. We are talking basic nba layups.

The shots just weren’t falling. It’s demoralizing especially when they had the early 14 point lead. When Tatum banked in that 28 foot 3 pointer. I just knew it wasn’t gonna to be our night.

I’m still keeping a positive outlook. It’s not like the Celtics are stopping the sixers with their defense. Game one was turnovers. Game 2 was about missing shots.

Playoffs are about attitude and focus. And things just unraveled once they got down 15 in the third.


Yup we had several point blank misses courtesy of Tobias Jrich and Burks.

One way I find to kill the momentum when an opponent goes into these kind of hot shooting rhythm is to slow the game down, get to the line and change the defense.

Another thing is the energy and body language was super bad in the third quarter. This is where a guy like Thybulle coming off the bench would have been great. But we need some energy when the energy drops. Maybe insert Burks? Pelle? Maybe even Al?
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#155 » by VDT » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:23 am

76ciology wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:
The evidence is that Embiid cannot be your first option on offense, there is no problem if he takes a lesser role, a 2nd or 3rd option depending on the roster construction, and he could conserve more energy to play proper defense, which clearly it's nowhere to be seen from him these days. However, with our current roster construction and situation, I don't see who is that 1st option that we could get?
Embiid can score no doubt, but not when things get tough, he just disappears, be it because of stamina issues or god knows why, he is not a reliable scoring option if you want to win a championship.


Embiid can be 1B, or an elite second option. Maybe he can even be a 1rst option. But you need an elite perimeter scorer/playmaker alongisde him if you want to be a real contender. Just like Shaq had Kobe/Penny, Duncan had Parker/Ginobili, KG had Pierce/Allen, etc.

Ben isn't and is never going to be that kind of player. We need to trade him and try to bring Beal. Maybe Lavine, or something like that. Jimmy actually was very close to the player we need. We just had to soround him and Joel with 3+D guys and not fricking Tobias Harris.


Agree.

I think in terms of roster construction based on offense, a good model is the Celtics.

Biid can be as good of a scorer like Tatum. But he needs a Kemba, Hayward and Jaylen.

This is why I said Ben creates a domino effect of problems. Because you need to make him number 2, max him out, and have to give him the ball whenever he is on the court while not being the scorer. He is a below average scorer for a number of a championship team. A guy like Hayward, who is number 4 scorer for the Celts, is a better scorer than him.

Having Ben also means you can’t have Brogdon or Jimmy. Both also needs the ball to be maximized while both also are poor 3pt shooters.

Not saying Biid and Ben won’t work. But it just means you then need to ask a lot for your 3rd and 4th best players. They should be so good that Ben will look like a role player like Rajon Rondo with the Celts.

Anyway, we’re here and let’s just focus what we can extract in this series.



The Celtics roster is built on completely different principles. Defensively they value switchability from their bigs, which is why the normally dont play Kanter much and play 6'9 Theis at center and offensively they value wing and guard scoring. Neither Embiid nor Simmons are a fit there.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#156 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:25 am

Read on Twitter


Look at how Jazz play defense.

I think we could leave Smart or Theis.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#157 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:49 am

I was about to say that we should just switch the Celts PnR and force their bigs to post our guys then just zone or double their bigs to force them to make plays.

But Ive been looking at our games and other teams, seems like nowadays the best way to play D is really to give up jumpers. Specially mid range. Because the ball handler has a very easy time on getting to the line. Just a simple bump when the defender is out of position and it’s a foul.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#158 » by VDT » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:49 am

Embiid is staying to deep in the paint perhaps, but what we are doing makes some sense. If you try to switch the Celtics will abuse to tire Embiid and draw fouls on Embiid. Having Embiid defend Kemba in a switch play after play is not a sane gameplan. What you can do is try to semi contest the jumpers or try ti trap the ball handler from time to time.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#159 » by VDT » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:49 am

Embiid is staying too deep in the paint perhaps, but what we are doing makes some sense. If you try to switch the Celtics will abuse to tire Embiid and draw fouls on Embiid. Having Embiid defend Kemba in a switch play after play is not a sane gameplan. What you can do is try to semi contest the jumpers or try ti trap the ball handler from time to time.
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Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#160 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:58 am

76ciology wrote:I was about to say that we should just switch the Celts PnR and force their bigs to post our guys then just zone or double their bigs to force them to make plays.

But Ive been looking at our games and other teams, seems like nowadays the best way to play D is really to give up jumpers. Specially mid range. Because the ball handler has a very easy time on getting to the line. Just a simple bump when the defender is out of position and it’s a foul.


We need to mix it up. Add switching and some zone. It should depend on how the Celts are shooting
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