ImageImageImage

Sixers v Celtics Round 1

Moderators: BullyKing, HartfordWhalers, sixers hoops, Sixerscan, Foshan

User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 43,180
And1: 13,489
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#161 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:37 am

76ciology wrote:
76ciology wrote:I was about to say that we should just switch the Celts PnR and force their bigs to post our guys then just zone or double their bigs to force them to make plays.

But Ive been looking at our games and other teams, seems like nowadays the best way to play D is really to give up jumpers. Specially mid range. Because the ball handler has a very easy time on getting to the line. Just a simple bump when the defender is out of position and it’s a foul.


We need to mix it up. Add switching and some zone. It should depend on how the Celts are shooting


Sixers should not drop on PnR defense. Because Theis is sealing the big after he rolls, this makes the big useless around the rim.
“Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there is absolutely no point.”
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 22,079
And1: 4,348
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#162 » by youngcrev » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:35 am

Remember when we first brought Udoka on and he was talking all that **** about fixing our pick and roll defense? Good times.

I hate this team. Watching them is torture. I keep telling myself I might just not watch tonight, but I know I will (home game...).
User avatar
Bum Adebayo
Analyst
Posts: 3,717
And1: 1,504
Joined: Apr 28, 2016
 

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#163 » by Bum Adebayo » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:00 pm

Yeah, this team is not enjoyable at all. I mean, I liked the idea of going against the norm and win the championship doing something no other team was doing: go big, there is no merit on following trends. However, not with the players we got and those contracts, and certainly not with our attitude on the court. We were supposed to be a juggernaut defensive team, instead what we have is abysmal defense and giving up when things are tough. Embiid playing matador defense was the last straw though.
kuclas
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,785
And1: 1,594
Joined: Nov 08, 2016
     

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#164 » by kuclas » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:07 pm

76ciology wrote:
76ciology wrote:I was about to say that we should just switch the Celts PnR and force their bigs to post our guys then just zone or double their bigs to force them to make plays.

But Ive been looking at our games and other teams, seems like nowadays the best way to play D is really to give up jumpers. Specially mid range. Because the ball handler has a very easy time on getting to the line. Just a simple bump when the defender is out of position and it’s a foul.


We need to mix it up. Add switching and some zone. It should depend on how the Celts are shooting


And that is the problem with Brett brown. Stevens doesn’t double team embiid all the time.

But we drop in coverage all the time. That 10-12 foot mid range has been open all season for opposing teams. Sometimes they get even greedier and are embiid drop into the protected area and get the easier 8 foot floater inside the paint (see Trey young shot attempted and other Atlanta hawks.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 43,180
And1: 13,489
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#165 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:25 pm

kuclas wrote:
76ciology wrote:
76ciology wrote:I was about to say that we should just switch the Celts PnR and force their bigs to post our guys then just zone or double their bigs to force them to make plays.

But Ive been looking at our games and other teams, seems like nowadays the best way to play D is really to give up jumpers. Specially mid range. Because the ball handler has a very easy time on getting to the line. Just a simple bump when the defender is out of position and it’s a foul.


We need to mix it up. Add switching and some zone. It should depend on how the Celts are shooting


And that is the problem with Brett brown. Stevens doesn’t double team embiid all the time.

But we drop in coverage all the time. That 10-12 foot mid range has been open all season for opposing teams. Sometimes they get even greedier and are embiid drop into the protected area and get the easier 8 foot floater inside the paint (see Trey young shot attempted and other Atlanta hawks.


Big part why the drop coverage is not working is Theis would seal our big (embiid) after he rolls, this allows easy baskets at the rim for their PnR ballhandler
“Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there is absolutely no point.”
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 43,180
And1: 13,489
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#166 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:30 pm

I thought Burks was playing well but he’s just averaging .56 ppp on PnR.

Tatum has been killing us on PnR. 8 possessions per game on 1.5 ppp
“Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there is absolutely no point.”
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 31,008
And1: 12,906
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#167 » by Kobblehead » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:35 pm

Both Tatum and Brown are mediocre slashers that prefer to score off the dribble in the mid-range.

Modern NBA players are conditioned into giving up mid-range looks in order to protect the 3 point line and the rim.

So in order to throw those two specific players off their game, you have to go against the modern conventional wisdom and actually defend the mid-range.

Do I think Brett Brown is nuanced enough to reach that conclusion and attempt to deploy that tactic? Nope.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 43,180
And1: 13,489
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#168 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:37 pm

We’re running a lot of good 2man game. We are second on scoring as PnR Roll man.

We continued to stick to our men and not provide any help, this made Celts had the least shots off spot up.

It’s good that it’s Tatum who’s killing us on PnR. This means Biid has to step up and switch. I find it easier for Biid to defend Tatum than Kemba.
“Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there is absolutely no point.”
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 31,008
And1: 12,906
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#169 » by Kobblehead » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:43 pm

76ciology wrote:It’s good that it’s Tatum who’s killing us on PnR. This means Biid has to step up and switch. I find it easier for Biid to defend Tatum than Kemba.

Embiid is too poorly conditioned and/or lazy to consistently hedge on Tatum's pick-and-rolls. He's just going to keep sitting back and having Tatum drill mid-range jumpers.

Tatum is weak at getting to the rim. I would rather blitz and hedge him on every single possession.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 31,008
And1: 12,906
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#170 » by Kobblehead » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:50 pm

There's not a single player on the Celtics that consistently scores off the dribble at all three levels. Meaning there's no reason to protect the rim at all against them. Just aggressively guard the mid-range and closeout on three point attempts.
User avatar
Bum Adebayo
Analyst
Posts: 3,717
And1: 1,504
Joined: Apr 28, 2016
 

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#171 » by Bum Adebayo » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:12 pm

I think this three level scorer thing is overrated, it is important to score on the ball but as long as you are efficient, then you can do ok if you are not strong in one of the areas. A guy that can score on the ball via 3pt shots and midrange shots is perfectly capable of taking over, Tatum is example of that.
Embiid has been playing matador defense so far, it's just that not many people realize it. I think it is for the most part Brett's clueless defensive scheme, but Embiid looks less mobile out there than 2 years ago, so his defensive potential and actual prowess may be vanishing in front of our eyes at a rapid pace.
SparksFly87
Analyst
Posts: 3,622
And1: 298
Joined: Mar 24, 2010

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#172 » by SparksFly87 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:14 pm

Underestimating the Boston Celtics scoring abilities ain’t gonna fix how **** and passive we are playing. They are flat out better coached and the guard and wing talent is superior.


We need to abandon analytic bull. Feed Embiid the ball on offense and be ready to shoot a trey or create on a bail out. When a player gets hot encourage him to seek shots. This ain’t rocket science. Also Embiid defense is faltering because of all the dead plays and useless mins running up and down the court. Horford should be strictly back up center because they don’t work together. Tobias is a 4 because he cant penetrate or create space as a wing. Shake is not a starting point he’s a better fitting 2 guard however over Josh Rich who is really a 3.

I feel Alec Berks is really disrespected and underutilized on this team in terms of role. He’s a legit shot creator with a pull up game. Neto can penetrate but however he’s limited against real talent like

This team needs Ben who’s presence and impact made them a 50 win team for 2 seasons. He’s that valuable even without a shot.



Please trade Tobias for Chris Paul and Horford and JRich for a 18+ ppg sharp shooter.
elchengue20
Senior
Posts: 516
And1: 316
Joined: Aug 17, 2013

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#173 » by elchengue20 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:32 pm

I told ya after the SA game that Biid was playing like crap on defense. One thing is to give the midrange to 3+D players, one whole different thing is to give that shot to specialists like Derozan, Rudy Gay, Taytum or Kemba. It makes no sense at all. Also its not like they are elite slashers.
User avatar
Mik317
RealGM
Posts: 29,303
And1: 9,612
Joined: May 31, 2005
Location: In your head....you have issues breh
       

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#174 » by Mik317 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:38 pm

I wonder why some feel like that they need to constantly spout the same talking points in every post.

we get it my guy
#NeverGonnaBeGood
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 31,008
And1: 12,906
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#175 » by Kobblehead » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:40 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:I think this three level scorer thing is overrated, it is important to score on the ball but as long as you are efficient, then you can do ok if you are not strong in one of the areas. A guy that can score on the ball via 3pt shots and midrange shots is perfectly capable of taking over, Tatum is example of that.


He wouldn't be efficient if we had a logical gameplan and a coach that knows what he's doing.

Guys that only score off the dribble from the mid-range are far easier to defend than guys that score from all three levels.

Tatum was terrible against the Bucks in last year's playoffs (12 ppg on 46% true shooting) because Budenholzer hedged and blitzed him on pick and rolls and took away his primary source for on-ball scoring (midrange). He reduced him to a guy that had to shoot threes and cut to the rim on assisted fga's to generate offense.

We should be defending Tatum like we did De'Angelo Russell last year. They're very similar in the way they score. Tatum is just a bigger version.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 31,008
And1: 12,906
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#176 » by Kobblehead » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:46 pm

Our team making public comments about having no answer for incomplete scoring talents like Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown is pretty pathetic.

A collective realgm poster group could devise a gameplan to reduce each of those guys to 16-18 ppg players (instead of them toasting us for a combined 57+ each playoff game).
User avatar
Mik317
RealGM
Posts: 29,303
And1: 9,612
Joined: May 31, 2005
Location: In your head....you have issues breh
       

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#177 » by Mik317 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:57 pm

Tatum is hitting pull up 3s tho.

not sure how giving him those is the solution
#NeverGonnaBeGood
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 43,180
And1: 13,489
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#178 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:02 pm

Kobblehead wrote:There's not a single player on the Celtics that consistently scores off the dribble at all three levels. Meaning there's no reason to protect the rim at all against them. Just aggressively guard the mid-range and closeout on three point attempts.


Yes but theis and their other bigs have been sealing our bigs we cant protect the rim.
“Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there is absolutely no point.”
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 43,180
And1: 13,489
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#179 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:06 pm

Mik317 wrote:Tatum is hitting pull up 3s tho.

not sure how giving him those is the solution


Force him left.

He like lures you with the Between the leg cross over with his left side then steps back to the right. This creates a big gap to cover.
“Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there is absolutely no point.”
mike76
Junior
Posts: 360
And1: 319
Joined: Jan 21, 2018
         

Re: Sixers v Celtics Round 1 

Post#180 » by mike76 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:12 pm

Kobblehead wrote:There's not a single player on the Celtics that consistently scores off the dribble at all three levels. Meaning there's no reason to protect the rim at all against them. Just aggressively guard the mid-range and closeout on three point attempts.


Tatum in the regular season shot
38% from midrange
40% from 3
59% at the rim.

obviously, you want to contest a Tatum shot at every level because a contested shot is the best defense.

but if you have to pick your poison, it is much better to concede a bunch of midrangers to Tatum than a bunch of 3s or layups to Tatum. Selling out on the midrange would be a bad strategy against Tatum.

Really Tatum hasn't killed us from midrange at all.
Game 1 he killed us at the FT line with 10+ FTs.
Game 2 he killed us from 3 shooting 8-12 on mostly pullup 3s.

I had concerns that with the tatum-thybulle size mismatch that thybulle would have a harder time contesting the Tatum 3. Best way to deter a 3 is with speed and size on the perimeter. Thybulle has the speed, but not the size. That said, he's our best bet against Tatum and I don't think Tatum will continue to shoot over 50% from 3 this series.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers