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Offseason plan : Fixing this mess

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#701 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:29 am

Thoughts?

Excellent starting lineup with a veteran 3 star. Three shooters in the starting lineup. Kennard can share ball handling with Simmons. When Embiid sits, Horford and Love in the lineup with Simmons. More shooters with Simmons. Milton and and Snell as quality depth off the bench. ImageImage

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#702 » by VDT » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:37 am

zimpy27 wrote:Yes, mistakes were made.

But a team with Harris, Simmons, Embiid was a whisker away from a championship with a bench that was worse than Milton, Burks, Thybulle, Scott.

Don't be distracted by other things, the 76ers should be looking to get back to a team like last season. Harris is a good piece that isn't worth $30m but he was part of the successful team in 2019.

Use J-Rich and Horford to get pieces equivalent to Jimmy and Redick in the roles they played. You aren't going to get a player as good Jimmy Butler with these pieces but you just have to fulfil the role. I believe that role was a 2-way player that can score in the half-court. CP3 is equivalent and may actually be a better fit. Furthermore, Seth Curry is a Redick equivalent but younger and more durable.

The goal should be this through a 3-way trade. Or it should be another trade that gets you something similar.


The Sixers are missing a perimeter star that can create for himself and others. It is hard to have a that a roleplayer in that role(which is mostly what you are going to get for Richardson and Horford). The Sixers are paying a lot of money without having someone to fill that role and that's the root of their problems. This is even worse because their best player is a center.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#703 » by youngcrev » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:48 am

twix2500 wrote:Thoughts?

Excellent starting lineup with a veteran 3 star. Three shooters in the starting lineup. Kennard can share ball handling with Simmons. When Embiid sits, Horford and Love in the lineup with Simmons. More shooters with Simmons. Milton and and Snell as quality depth off the bench. ImageImage

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Embiid, Horford and Love on the same team makes no sense. That's like 90M in centers. I like Kennard as a target but wouldn't give up Thybulle for him due to the injuries and being on the final year of his contract
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#704 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:52 am

youngcrev wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Thoughts?

Excellent starting lineup with a veteran 3 star. Three shooters in the starting lineup. Kennard can share ball handling with Simmons. When Embiid sits, Horford and Love in the lineup with Simmons. More shooters with Simmons. Milton and and Snell as quality depth off the bench. ImageImage

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Embiid, Horford and Love on the same team makes no sense. That's like 90M in centers. I like Kennard as a target but wouldn't give up Thybulle for him due to the injuries and being on the final year of his contract
What makes no sense about Love and Embiid frontcournt? Love is an experience star, excellent scorer, shooter, rebounder and passer that would fit well next to Embiid. Love is a better fit and he is cheaper than Harris.

PG: Simmons (Paint)
SG: Kennard (SHOOTER)
SF Richardson (SHOOTER)
PF Love (SHOOTER)
Ce: Embiid (Paint)

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#705 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:57 am

Richardson (Shooter)
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#706 » by youngcrev » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:04 am

twix2500 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Thoughts?

Excellent starting lineup with a veteran 3 star. Three shooters in the starting lineup. Kennard can share ball handling with Simmons. When Embiid sits, Horford and Love in the lineup with Simmons. More shooters with Simmons. Milton and and Snell as quality depth off the bench. ImageImage

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Embiid, Horford and Love on the same team makes no sense. That's like 90M in centers. I like Kennard as a target but wouldn't give up Thybulle for him due to the injuries and being on the final year of his contract
What makes no sense about Love and Embiid frontcournt? Love is an experience star, excellent scorer, shooter, rebounder and passer that would fit well next to Embiid. Love is a better fit and he is cheaper than Harris.

PG: Simmons (Paint)
SG: Kennard (SHOOTER)
SF Richardson (SHOOTER)
PF Love (SHOOTER)
Ce: Embiid (Paint)

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That he can't defend the position anymore. At this point he's a center (and one that provides zero rim protection and would that would be a constant PnR target in the playoffs). He's a former star at this point, not an experienced one.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#707 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:10 am

youngcrev wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Embiid, Horford and Love on the same team makes no sense. That's like 90M in centers. I like Kennard as a target but wouldn't give up Thybulle for him due to the injuries and being on the final year of his contract
What makes no sense about Love and Embiid frontcournt? Love is an experience star, excellent scorer, shooter, rebounder and passer that would fit well next to Embiid. Love is a better fit and he is cheaper than Harris.

PG: Simmons (Paint)
SG: Kennard (SHOOTER)
SF Richardson (SHOOTER)
PF Love (SHOOTER)
Ce: Embiid (Paint)

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That he can't defend the position anymore. At this point he's a center (and one that provides zero rim protection and would that would be a constant PnR target in the playoffs). He's a former star at this point, not an experienced one.
He has never been a defender. You are and never was getting Love for his defense. You are getting him for his offense and rebounding. Love can still score at a star level. And his style of play complements Embiid unlike Harris. And he is cheaper than Harris.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#708 » by youngcrev » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:19 am

twix2500 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
twix2500 wrote:What makes no sense about Love and Embiid frontcournt? Love is an experience star, excellent scorer, shooter, rebounder and passer that would fit well next to Embiid. Love is a better fit and he is cheaper than Harris.

PG: Simmons (Paint)
SG: Kennard (SHOOTER)
SF Richardson (SHOOTER)
PF Love (SHOOTER)
Ce: Embiid (Paint)

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That he can't defend the position anymore. At this point he's a center (and one that provides zero rim protection and would that would be a constant PnR target in the playoffs). He's a former star at this point, not an experienced one.
He has never been a defender. You are and never was getting Love for his defense. You are getting him for his offense and rebounding. Love can still score at a star level. And his style of play complements Embiid unlike Harris. And he is cheaper than Harris.

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Right, he was never a defender. But now the league is even smaller, quicker and perimeter oriented, while he's gotten slower, compounding that issue. And he no longer gives you star level impact on the offensive end.

Trading a 3/4 for a 4/5 is the last thing this team needs positionally. They need guards, not more bigs.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#709 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:24 am

youngcrev wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
That he can't defend the position anymore. At this point he's a center (and one that provides zero rim protection and would that would be a constant PnR target in the playoffs). He's a former star at this point, not an experienced one.
He has never been a defender. You are and never was getting Love for his defense. You are getting him for his offense and rebounding. Love can still score at a star level. And his style of play complements Embiid unlike Harris. And he is cheaper than Harris.

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Right, he was never a defender. But now the league is even smaller, quicker and perimeter oriented, while he's gotten slower, compounding that issue. And he no longer gives you star level impact on the offensive end.

Trading a 3/4 for a 4/5 is the last thing this team needs positionally. They need guards, not more bigs.
76ers need players who can score in the halfcourt. Love is excellent in the halfcourt. Having one bad defending in the starting lineup is worth is worth the offense he will provide. He can play with both Embiid and Horford. He has championship experience which is highly needed. He will not take the ball out of Embiid and Simmons hands and still get his. And step up when Simmons or Embiid go to the bench. We all know how good of an outlet passer he is which will do wonders for Simmons.

I added a guard in Kennard. That solves that issue. also added a defender in Snell

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#710 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:36 am

Look at Kevin Love halfcourt offense and areas he excell at and look at the areas where the 76ers struggle to score at. He adds exactly what the 76ers need offensively.


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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#711 » by youngcrev » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:41 am

twix2500 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
twix2500 wrote:He has never been a defender. You are and never was getting Love for his defense. You are getting him for his offense and rebounding. Love can still score at a star level. And his style of play complements Embiid unlike Harris. And he is cheaper than Harris.

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Right, he was never a defender. But now the league is even smaller, quicker and perimeter oriented, while he's gotten slower, compounding that issue. And he no longer gives you star level impact on the offensive end.

Trading a 3/4 for a 4/5 is the last thing this team needs positionally. They need guards, not more bigs.
76ers need players who can score in the halfcourt. Love is excellent in the halfcourt. Having one bad defending in the starting lineup is worth is worth the offense he will provide. He can play with both Embiid and Horford. He has championship experience which is highly needed. He will not take the ball out of Embiid and Simmons hands and still get his. And step up when Simmons or Embiid go to the bench. We all know how good of an outlet passer he is which will do wonders for Simmons.

I added a guard in Kennard. That solves that issue. also added a defender in Snell

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The Sixers need creators in the halfcourt. The only way Love can do that is in the post, which is exactly what we don't need. Other than that he's a spot up shooter.

And, again, while I like Kennard, you'd then have 2 defensive liabilities in your lineup.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#712 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:43 am

youngcrev wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:
Right, he was never a defender. But now the league is even smaller, quicker and perimeter oriented, while he's gotten slower, compounding that issue. And he no longer gives you star level impact on the offensive end.

Trading a 3/4 for a 4/5 is the last thing this team needs positionally. They need guards, not more bigs.
76ers need players who can score in the halfcourt. Love is excellent in the halfcourt. Having one bad defending in the starting lineup is worth is worth the offense he will provide. He can play with both Embiid and Horford. He has championship experience which is highly needed. He will not take the ball out of Embiid and Simmons hands and still get his. And step up when Simmons or Embiid go to the bench. We all know how good of an outlet passer he is which will do wonders for Simmons.

I added a guard in Kennard. That solves that issue. also added a defender in Snell

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The Sixers need creators in the halfcourt. The only way Love can do that is in the post, which is exactly what we don't need. Other than that he's a spot up shooter.

And, again, while I like Kennard, you'd then have 2 defensive liabilities in your lineup.
That is what Kennard is for. He can handle the ball without being ball dominate taking the ball out of Simmons hands.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#713 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:51 am

I actually don't mind acquiring the players you've suggested, it's gotta be Horford going out instead of Harris for me though.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#714 » by VDT » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:56 am

twix2500 wrote:Thoughts?

Excellent starting lineup with a veteran 3 star. Three shooters in the starting lineup. Kennard can share ball handling with Simmons. When Embiid sits, Horford and Love in the lineup with Simmons. More shooters with Simmons. Milton and and Snell as quality depth off the bench. ImageImage

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Love is useless to the Sixers (and most teams). Obviously no to trading Thybylle for Kennard.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#715 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:00 am

stormi wrote:I actually don't mind acquiring the players you've suggested, it's gotta be Horford going out instead of Harris for me though.
I tried to move Horford, but the return looks like it would not help. 76er got to have two elite shooters in the starting lineup. That was the only I can see getting two elite saavy shooters that complement the stars in other ways as well, Love rebounding and passing and Kennard ball handling and passing.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#716 » by youngcrev » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:06 am

Take away the name recognition of Kevin Love and you're left with a defensive liability without a true position that can rebound, make spot up jumpers and post up. Oh, and he's got 3 years, 90+M left on his deal, is 32 years old, and has dealt with persistent injuries over the last handful of years.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#717 » by sixers hoops » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:08 am

VDT wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Thoughts?

Excellent starting lineup with a veteran 3 star. Three shooters in the starting lineup. Kennard can share ball handling with Simmons. When Embiid sits, Horford and Love in the lineup with Simmons. More shooters with Simmons. Milton and and Snell as quality depth off the bench. ImageImage

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Love is useless to the Sixers (and most teams). Obviously no to trading Thybylle for Kennard.


Yeah. Love is cooked.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#718 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:08 am

twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:I actually don't mind acquiring the players you've suggested, it's gotta be Horford going out instead of Harris for me though.
I tried to move Horford, but the return looks like it would not help. 76er got to have two elite shooters in the starting lineup. That was the only I can see getting two elite saavy shooters that complement the stars in other ways as well, Love rebounding and passing and Kennard ball handling and passing.

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What do you mean by this?

I don't think the value lines up personally. Kennard while intriguing, is damaged goods. Love is on a humongous contract like Harris. Snell is FA fodder. Giving up Thybulle skews the value against Philadelphia, we brought in another 'big' and Horford is still floating around without a place on the roster.

I like Love more than most and see the fit between him- Joel and Ben, but #HorfOut has to be priority #1.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#719 » by sixers hoops » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:25 am

zimpy27 wrote:Yes, mistakes were made.

But a team with Harris, Simmons, Embiid was a whisker away from a championship with a bench that was worse than Milton, Burks, Thybulle, Scott.

Don't be distracted by other things, the 76ers should be looking to get back to a team like last season. Harris is a good piece that isn't worth $30m but he was part of the successful team in 2019.

Use J-Rich and Horford to get pieces equivalent to Jimmy and Redick in the roles they played. You aren't going to get a player as good Jimmy Butler with these pieces but you just have to fulfil the role. I believe that role was a 2-way player that can score in the half-court. CP3 is equivalent and may actually be a better fit. Furthermore, Seth Curry is a Redick equivalent but younger and more durable.

The goal should be this through a 3-way trade. Or it should be another trade that gets you something similar.


I was listening to a podcast, but I can’t remember which one suggested the trade, but they said it might be:

Chris Paul for Hortford, Scott expiring, Thybulle, Shake, and a some picks. At this point, Donovan was still their coach and they said he may like having Horford’s leadership.

I was pumped about a Paul trade for Hortford, Richardson, and Scott. I thought it ultimately helps Thunder in the overall financial picture as they head for a rebuild. Now there are rumors of Bucks and other teams interested. At this point, I’m not sure how much I want to give up for a 35 year old with some injury history.

Unless you believe Paul makes us a legit contender, why waste solid pieces like Thybulle, Shake, and a first.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#720 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:27 am

stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:I actually don't mind acquiring the players you've suggested, it's gotta be Horford going out instead of Harris for me though.
I tried to move Horford, but the return looks like it would not help. 76er got to have two elite shooters in the starting lineup. That was the only I can see getting two elite saavy shooters that complement the stars in other ways as well, Love rebounding and passing and Kennard ball handling and passing.

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What do you mean by this?

I don't think the value lines up personally. Kennard while intriguing, is damaged goods. Love is on a humongous contract like Harris. Snell is FA fodder. Giving up Thybulle skews the value against Philadelphia, we brought in another 'big' and Horford is still floating around without a place on the roster.

I do like the value of Love and see the fit between him- Joel and Ben, I like more than others but #HorfOut has to be priority #1.


I like Thybulle, but he is just a role player. Treat him as such. Role players are replacable and they come and go. When you are trying
to be contenders you can't be overvaluing role players. Can't be acting like Knick fans who wanted to hold up the franchise for Iman Shumpert.

You are not getting a budding star for Harris or Horford. Horford age is not gonna net a quality return. Can't imagine a team giving the 76ers cap relief for just the rights to Horford alone. Likely need attach a player or draft pick. Harris has been terrible as a 76ers. Love contract is less and shorter than Harris. So there are some financial gain.

OKC wanted a lot for Chris Paul. They wanted multiple young players and cap relief. Plus getting Paul is taking the ball completely out of Simmons hands. He's too ball dominant.

I agree that an additional ball handler is needed (not a dominant one), that is why I think Kennard is a great fit. He brings shooting, ball handling, off the ball movement and good passer without being ball dominant.

What do you mean Kennard is damage goods? Does he have a chronic injury?

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