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Offseason plan : Fixing this mess

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#721 » by KL78192020 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:04 am

Should do Horford for Gordon/Covington
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#722 » by Mik317 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:06 am

we aren't going to get perfect fits for our trash guys.

Love may very well be washed..but he can play the spot up spacer roll way better than Al or Tobias.

These dreams of getting Paul for cheap or hell at all might need to die. The most realistic outcome is getting equally flawed or washed players that might "fit" better and hope for that, our "stars" improving and the new system being the shot in the arm.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#723 » by 76ciology » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:33 am

Sure the numbers can Biid and Ben’s numbers are good when both are on the floor. But in the playoffs or during a close game down the stretch, it’s hard to generate offense just by those DHOs or post plays. This is why we always ended up “unlucky” down the stretch.

Until we can see a big jump in Ben’s game... the guard we need is someone who can play as a conductor between Biid and Ben.

Jimmy was not. Whenever Jimmy plays 2 man game with Biid, Ben was left out.

Tobi can not, because Tobi’s man can always switch at Ben.

The way I can see it happen is the guard should be more like JJ or Lowry. Where he can set a invert screen (pick and pop) for Ben, to allow ben to have a step advantage over his man or force a switch. Korkmaz played this role this season and was successful but he’s just not good enough.


Once Ben drives to the lane, via the screen, he can kick it out to the screener, drive to the hole or drop pass to Biid.

Then that guard can always play a 2 man game with one of them when one of them is off the floor. Then always be a threat for an early 3 on transition.

Looking at the Lakers blueprint, you have to run a volume of actions where Biid and Ben are involved when both are on the floor.

Then you can run a Ben centric or Biid centric offense when only one of them is on the floor.

A Biid centric offense is the one we saw during the playoffs.

A Ben centric offense is the one where we saw how Ben played without Biid to start 2020. It can be done with Al at C, both Ben and Al are great fit.

That screener should be a DEADEYE shooter and is elite on moving off the ball with decent PnR ability. The perfect model would be is a 25-27yo JJ Redick.

Havent thought this through but a simple trade would be Tobi for CJ. Or maybe trade for Gary Harris with Josh Richardson. Seth Curry?

This way you can be realistic and yet empower both guys.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#724 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:22 am

twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:I tried to move Horford, but the return looks like it would not help. 76er got to have two elite shooters in the starting lineup. That was the only I can see getting two elite saavy shooters that complement the stars in other ways as well, Love rebounding and passing and Kennard ball handling and passing.

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What do you mean by this?

I don't think the value lines up personally. Kennard while intriguing, is damaged goods. Love is on a humongous contract like Harris. Snell is FA fodder. Giving up Thybulle skews the value against Philadelphia, we brought in another 'big' and Horford is still floating around without a place on the roster.

I do like the value of Love and see the fit between him- Joel and Ben, I like more than others but #HorfOut has to be priority #1.


I like Thybulle, but he is just a role player. Treat him as such. Role players are replacable and they come and go. When you are trying
to be contenders you can't be overvaluing role players. Can't be acting like Knick fans who wanted to hold up the franchise for Iman Shumpert.

You are not getting a budding star for Harris or Horford. Horford age is not gonna net a quality return. Can't imagine a team giving the 76ers cap relief for just the rights to Horford alone. Likely need attach a player or draft pick. Harris has been terrible as a 76ers. Love contract is less and shorter than Harris. So there are some financial gain.

OKC wanted a lot for Chris Paul. They wanted multiple young players and cap relief. Plus getting Paul is taking the ball completely out of Simmons hands. He's too ball dominant.

I agree that an additional ball handler is needed (not a dominant one), that is why I think Kennard is a great fit. He brings shooting, ball handling, off the ball movement and good passer without being ball dominant.

What do you mean Kennard is damage goods? Does he have a chronic injury?

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I've never given my evaluation on Thybulle, but whether he's a perennial role player or not doesn't change his value internally to the Sixers or as a trade asset. You need good roleplayers to compete, you need versatile and switchable defenders with length, you need 3 point shooting. He checks a lot of important boxes; just like Shumpert did to help the Cavs win in 2016. He's cost controlled on a team in a financial crisis, and in the mold of a young archetypal 3&D wing which we need more of, not less. He's not being moved for Kevin Love who doesn't have positive trade value himself. His contract is also amongst the worst in the league.

The trade you proposed is a lateral move at best and we still don't address our biggest needs. I don't know where the 'Sixers don't want dominant ballhandlers' narrative that you're pushing is coming from? We desperately need more. We don't currently have any in a playoff half court setting. Kennard, Love, Snell etc type players are welcome on my team. Not for what we're giving up. I'd move Horford for Love. I'd move Scott+Smith for Kennard and such deals. If Thybulle must be moved, it's for a Chris Paul esque deal.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#725 » by zimpy27 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:31 am

sixers hoops wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Yes, mistakes were made.

But a team with Harris, Simmons, Embiid was a whisker away from a championship with a bench that was worse than Milton, Burks, Thybulle, Scott.

Don't be distracted by other things, the 76ers should be looking to get back to a team like last season. Harris is a good piece that isn't worth $30m but he was part of the successful team in 2019.

Use J-Rich and Horford to get pieces equivalent to Jimmy and Redick in the roles they played. You aren't going to get a player as good Jimmy Butler with these pieces but you just have to fulfil the role. I believe that role was a 2-way player that can score in the half-court. CP3 is equivalent and may actually be a better fit. Furthermore, Seth Curry is a Redick equivalent but younger and more durable.

The goal should be this through a 3-way trade. Or it should be another trade that gets you something similar.


I was listening to a podcast, but I can’t remember which one suggested the trade, but they said it might be:

Chris Paul for Hortford, Scott expiring, Thybulle, Shake, and a some picks. At this point, Donovan was still their coach and they said he may like having Horford’s leadership.

I was pumped about a Paul trade for Hortford, Richardson, and Scott. I thought it ultimately helps Thunder in the overall financial picture as they head for a rebuild. Now there are rumors of Bucks and other teams interested. At this point, I’m not sure how much I want to give up for a 35 year old with some injury history.

Unless you believe Paul makes us a legit contender, why waste solid pieces like Thybulle, Shake, and a first.


You can only judge someone on their last season. CP3 of last season would make sixers a championship favourite.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#726 » by M2J » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:57 am

zimpy27 wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Yes, mistakes were made.

But a team with Harris, Simmons, Embiid was a whisker away from a championship with a bench that was worse than Milton, Burks, Thybulle, Scott.

Don't be distracted by other things, the 76ers should be looking to get back to a team like last season. Harris is a good piece that isn't worth $30m but he was part of the successful team in 2019.

Use J-Rich and Horford to get pieces equivalent to Jimmy and Redick in the roles they played. You aren't going to get a player as good Jimmy Butler with these pieces but you just have to fulfil the role. I believe that role was a 2-way player that can score in the half-court. CP3 is equivalent and may actually be a better fit. Furthermore, Seth Curry is a Redick equivalent but younger and more durable.

The goal should be this through a 3-way trade. Or it should be another trade that gets you something similar.


I was listening to a podcast, but I can’t remember which one suggested the trade, but they said it might be:

Chris Paul for Hortford, Scott expiring, Thybulle, Shake, and a some picks. At this point, Donovan was still their coach and they said he may like having Horford’s leadership.

I was pumped about a Paul trade for Hortford, Richardson, and Scott. I thought it ultimately helps Thunder in the overall financial picture as they head for a rebuild. Now there are rumors of Bucks and other teams interested. At this point, I’m not sure how much I want to give up for a 35 year old with some injury history.

Unless you believe Paul makes us a legit contender, why waste solid pieces like Thybulle, Shake, and a first.


You can only judge someone on their last season. CP3 of last season would make sixers a championship favourite.


I hear your point. CP3 would be a great fit. He can screen for Ben, and make Ben an effective screen and roll option, as well as a strong 2 man game with Joel. While spacing for both of them. Giving some great leadership too.

But, I wouldn't give up more than one of those cheap assets for him. Meaning this year's pick, or next year's pick, Thybulle or Shake. It would be difficult for me to give those last 2. A first rounder is all they wanted for Chris before his resurgence, and we all know he's getting traded. Maybe add 2nd rounders,Zhaire or Furk for their rebuild to the pick.

Chris typically doesn't stay healthy long enough to get to the finals. To give up essentially 3 first round picks for him with Shake and Thybulle is too much. Especially considering OKC could possibly ride Horford enough as they rebuild to get a pick for him. Horford is essentially the same player he was with Boston. Just played the 4 position for the first time in his career, and doesn't fit next to Ben and Joel together. Lots of teams could use him. Houston could've used him vs the Lakers, and he fits as center for Daryl's analytics going forward.
The Kings, Warriors. Point being, a rebuilding team could use him and collect something from a team trying to get over there hump in a year or two. I could even see a 3 way trade involving CP3 to Philly, Al to GS, Wiggins to OKC plus other assets.

I would rather give up the youngsters for Kyle Lowry at this point. I think it would be hard for Toronto to say no... Only IF Kyle wants to be traded. Or certainly Jrue Holiday.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#727 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:17 am

stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
What do you mean by this?

I don't think the value lines up personally. Kennard while intriguing, is damaged goods. Love is on a humongous contract like Harris. Snell is FA fodder. Giving up Thybulle skews the value against Philadelphia, we brought in another 'big' and Horford is still floating around without a place on the roster.

I do like the value of Love and see the fit between him- Joel and Ben, I like more than others but #HorfOut has to be priority #1.


I like Thybulle, but he is just a role player. Treat him as such. Role players are replacable and they come and go. When you are trying
to be contenders you can't be overvaluing role players. Can't be acting like Knick fans who wanted to hold up the franchise for Iman Shumpert.

You are not getting a budding star for Harris or Horford. Horford age is not gonna net a quality return. Can't imagine a team giving the 76ers cap relief for just the rights to Horford alone. Likely need attach a player or draft pick. Harris has been terrible as a 76ers. Love contract is less and shorter than Harris. So there are some financial gain.

OKC wanted a lot for Chris Paul. They wanted multiple young players and cap relief. Plus getting Paul is taking the ball completely out of Simmons hands. He's too ball dominant.

I agree that an additional ball handler is needed (not a dominant one), that is why I think Kennard is a great fit. He brings shooting, ball handling, off the ball movement and good passer without being ball dominant.

What do you mean Kennard is damage goods? Does he have a chronic injury?

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I've never given my evaluation on Thybulle, but whether he's a perennial role player or not doesn't change his value internally to the Sixers or as a trade asset. You need good roleplayers to compete, you need versatile and switchable defenders with length, you need 3 point shooting. He checks a lot of important boxes; just like Shumpert did to help the Cavs win in 2016. He's cost controlled on a team in a financial crisis, and in the mold of a young archetypal 3&D wing which we need more of, not less. He's not being moved for Kevin Love who doesn't have positive trade value himself. His contract is also amongst the worst in the league.

The trade you proposed is a lateral move at best and we still don't address our biggest needs. I don't know where the 'Sixers don't want dominant ballhandlers' narrative that you're pushing is coming from? We desperately need more. We don't currently have any in a playoff half court setting. Kennard, Love, Snell etc type players are welcome on my team. Not for what we're giving up. I'd move Horford for Love. I'd move Scott+Smith for Kennard and such deals. If Thybulle must be moved, it's for a Chris Paul esque deal.


Yeah I can't get on that line of thinking. Thybulle is Chris Paul value is not rational thinking in my book. Overvaluing a role player is exactly how the 76ers gave Horford and Harris a stupid contract. The role players are only relative to the needs of the star players and system needs. Example, Klay and Curry do not need elite 3 pt shooting role players because those are the shots they are taking. They needed role players who can set screens, pass and score in the paint. Role players can be found around the league. Hell you can find them out of the league. No need to hold a franchise up because of a 3D role player.

Tony Snell is a 3D role player. Teams pickup these players for cheap all the time. Heat picked up Battier, Bucks picking up Wesley Matthews. Thybulle being young doesn't help the 76ers. If anything a more experienced 3D player is likely more valuable when you are contending. Bucks have a platoon of 3&D role players. And you think a team is gonna trade a star for one?

The entire roster does not have to be switchable defenders. Simmons is a switchable defender, Richardson and Snell are ones also. Im sure a 4th guy can be picked up. George Hill will be available, another low cost switchable 3D and ball handling defender.

This desire some of you have for another dominant ballhandler to pair up with Simmons, I do not see how one thinks making Simmons play off the ball enhances his game. He needs the ball in his hands. He needs spot up shooters. Not just spot up shooters but high volume shooters. Kennard and Love are just that as well as being good passers to ensure Embiid and Simmons get their shots.

I mean look at the shot charts. I do not see how you think this is just a lateral move when Love and Kennard excell at what Embiid and Simmons and the 76ers as team whole struggle at. These 3 would probably excell even more playing with Simmons and Embiid than with their current roster.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#728 » by Lou_23 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:41 am

KL78192020 wrote:Should do Horford for Gordon/Covington

Horford+1rd x Gordon+Tucker

Covington has a good value (and age),I think it is unrealistic.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#729 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:31 am

Actually undervaluing cheap assets is exactly how the Sixers got into the shambles they're in now. Covington, Shamet, Saric, Grant, Holmes, TLC + picks that were forwarded for actual stars moved for peanuts. And now you want that trend to continue for... Kevin Love. I don't see the value in that deal. I'm not moving Thybulle unless it's for a ballhandler. Simple enough.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#730 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:34 am

stormi wrote:Actually undervaluing cheap assets is exactly how the Sixers got into the shambles they're in now. Covington, Shamet, Saric, Grant, Holmes, TLC + picks that were forwarded for actual stars moved for peanuts. And now you want that trend to continue for... Kevin Love. I don't see the value in that deal. I'm not moving Thybulle unless it's for a ballhandler. Simple enough.
No man the 76ers traded for a star and improved and Timberwolves got worse because they value a star equal to replacable role players. Because stars are extremely more valuable than role players. 76ers were one bounce away from likely winning a title because they valued a star over 2 role players. Then the 76ers let a star walk and paid more for role players than the star and got extremely worse. In addition to the role players do not fit the needs of Simmons and Embiid.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#731 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:44 am

twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:Actually undervaluing cheap assets is exactly how the Sixers got into the shambles they're in now. Covington, Shamet, Saric, Grant, Holmes, TLC + picks that were forwarded for actual stars moved for peanuts. And now you want that trend to continue for... Kevin Love. I don't see the value in that deal. I'm not moving Thybulle unless it's for a ballhandler. Simple enough.
No man the 76ers traded for a star and improved and Timberwolves got worse because they value a star equal to replacable role players. Because stars are extremely more valuable than role players. 76ers were one bounce away from like winning a title because they valued a star over 2 role players. Then the 76ers let a star walk and paid more for role player than the star and got extremely worse.

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You're bouncing all over the place. You don't want the Sixers to acquire another dominant ballhandler, but you also acknowledge how good the 2019 Sixers were with another dominant ballhandler on the roster... in Jimmy Butler.

Then you're talking about star acquisition, but your trade premise is centered on 35 year old Kevin Love and Tony Snell.

I like your suggestions (again), I don't like your valuations. That's where I pass.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#732 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:52 am

stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:Actually undervaluing cheap assets is exactly how the Sixers got into the shambles they're in now. Covington, Shamet, Saric, Grant, Holmes, TLC + picks that were forwarded for actual stars moved for peanuts. And now you want that trend to continue for... Kevin Love. I don't see the value in that deal. I'm not moving Thybulle unless it's for a ballhandler. Simple enough.
No man the 76ers traded for a star and improved and Timberwolves got worse because they value a star equal to replacable role players. Because stars are extremely more valuable than role players. 76ers were one bounce away from like winning a title because they valued a star over 2 role players. Then the 76ers let a star walk and paid more for role player than the star and got extremely worse.

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You're bouncing all over the place. You don't want the Sixers to acquire another dominant ballhandler, but you also acknowledge how good the 2019 Sixers were with another ballhandler on the roster... in Jimmy Butler

Then you're talking about star acquisition, but your trade premise is centered on 35 year old Kevin Love and Tony Snell.

I like your ideas, I don't like your value. That's where I pass.
Jimmy is not a dominant ball handler. Jimmy is a player who is a good ballhandler handler but doesn't dominant the ball. He scores in variety of ways. That is why you need another ball handler with Jimmy the same with Leonard. Harden, Lebron James and Chris Paul are dominant ballhandlers. Simmons is a dominant ballhandler. Paul and Harden bickered about who should be handling the ball when they played together. Getting Paul is forcing Simmons to play the weakest part of his game, off the ball.

I'm substituting a role player who does not fit in Harris for role players who do fit in Love, Snell and Kennard.

OKC has a very good GM, he is not trading Paul for role players. They want draft picks and cap relief.

If Simmons is not used as a dominant ballhandler then you are making his game suffer. Might as well trade him for Paul.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#733 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:02 pm

twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:No man the 76ers traded for a star and improved and Timberwolves got worse because they value a star equal to replacable role players. Because stars are extremely more valuable than role players. 76ers were one bounce away from like winning a title because they valued a star over 2 role players. Then the 76ers let a star walk and paid more for role player than the star and got extremely worse.

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You're bouncing all over the place. You don't want the Sixers to acquire another dominant ballhandler, but you also acknowledge how good the 2019 Sixers were with another ballhandler on the roster... in Jimmy Butler

Then you're talking about star acquisition, but your trade premise is centered on 35 year old Kevin Love and Tony Snell.

I like your ideas, I don't like your value. That's where I pass.
Jimmy is not a dominant ball handler. Jimmy is a player who is a good ballhandler handler but doesn't dominant the ball. He scores in variety of ways. That is why you need another ball handler with Jimmy the same with Leonard. Harden, Lebron James and Chris Paul are dominant ballhandlers. Simmons is a dominant ballhandler. Paul and Harden bickered about who should be handling the ball when they played together. Getting Paul is forcing Simmons to play the weakest part of his game, off the ball.

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I think you don't watch the Sixers enough honestly. Simmons played a majority of his minutes off ball in the clutch last year and him and Butler were around equal usage rates in the playoffs. In most of our important 4th quarter moments it was Jimmy that was the make shift point guard.

Ben playing off the ball in the halfcourt is lob threat, great on boxing out and grabbing Orebs, put backs and finishing around the rim. He's probably one of the best in the league at it actually. Championship offenses win because of diversity and unpredictability. You need to have multiple shot creators and players that can cut into playoff caliber defenses from every level of the floor. Having Butler on the floor with Ben, Redick and Embiid allowed them to enter different sets and attack mismatches with different players coming up the court with the ball. Kevin Love doesn't provide that. Tobias Harris doesn't provide that. Chris Paul has historically provided that, and did again this current year. We need someone like that. Acquiring Kennard and Love puts us back at 2018 Sixers. The offense will be much more flowing than this year for sure, but that main onball threat is still mia. Get me Kennard, Love but mainly Paul. Hit the trade finder and make it work.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#734 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:07 pm

stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
You're bouncing all over the place. You don't want the Sixers to acquire another dominant ballhandler, but you also acknowledge how good the 2019 Sixers were with another ballhandler on the roster... in Jimmy Butler

Then you're talking about star acquisition, but your trade premise is centered on 35 year old Kevin Love and Tony Snell.

I like your ideas, I don't like your value. That's where I pass.
Jimmy is not a dominant ball handler. Jimmy is a player who is a good ballhandler handler but doesn't dominant the ball. He scores in variety of ways. That is why you need another ball handler with Jimmy the same with Leonard. Harden, Lebron James and Chris Paul are dominant ballhandlers. Simmons is a dominant ballhandler. Paul and Harden bickered about who should be handling the ball when they played together. Getting Paul is forcing Simmons to play the weakest part of his game, off the ball.

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I think you don't watch the Sixers enough honestly. Simmons played a majority of his minutes off ball in the clutch last year and him and Butler were around equal usage rates in the playoffs. He's like a super soldier Draymond off ball.

A lob threat, great on boxing out and grabbing Orebs, put backs and finishing around the rim. He's probably one of the best in the league at it actually. Championship offenses win because of diversity and unpredictability. You need to have multiple shot creators and players that can cut into playoff caliber defenses from every level of the floor. Having Butler on the floor with Ben, Redick and Embiid allowed them to enter different sets and attack mismatches with different players coming up the court with the ball. Kevin Love doesn't provide that. Tobias Harris doesn't provide that. Chris Paul has provided that for many years in the past, and this current year. We need someone like that. Acquiring Kennard and Love puts us back at 2018 Sixers. The offense will be much more flowing than this year for sure, but that main onball threat is mia. Get me Kennard, Love and Paul. Hit the trade finder and make it work.


No man, Simmons was the primary ball handler during the regular season. He struggle in the playoffs and then that's when Jimmy took the primary role as ballhandler because Simmons was struggling. CMon, man. Simmons didn't flourish by playing off the ball when Jimmy took the responsibility. If Simmons flourish in that role they would have easily beaten the Raptors.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#735 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:10 pm

twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Jimmy is not a dominant ball handler. Jimmy is a player who is a good ballhandler handler but doesn't dominant the ball. He scores in variety of ways. That is why you need another ball handler with Jimmy the same with Leonard. Harden, Lebron James and Chris Paul are dominant ballhandlers. Simmons is a dominant ballhandler. Paul and Harden bickered about who should be handling the ball when they played together. Getting Paul is forcing Simmons to play the weakest part of his game, off the ball.

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I think you don't watch the Sixers enough honestly. Simmons played a majority of his minutes off ball in the clutch last year and him and Butler were around equal usage rates in the playoffs. He's like a super soldier Draymond off ball.

A lob threat, great on boxing out and grabbing Orebs, put backs and finishing around the rim. He's probably one of the best in the league at it actually. Championship offenses win because of diversity and unpredictability. You need to have multiple shot creators and players that can cut into playoff caliber defenses from every level of the floor. Having Butler on the floor with Ben, Redick and Embiid allowed them to enter different sets and attack mismatches with different players coming up the court with the ball. Kevin Love doesn't provide that. Tobias Harris doesn't provide that. Chris Paul has provided that for many years in the past, and this current year. We need someone like that. Acquiring Kennard and Love puts us back at 2018 Sixers. The offense will be much more flowing than this year for sure, but that main onball threat is mia. Get me Kennard, Love and Paul. Hit the trade finder and make it work.


No man, Simmons was the primary ball handler during the regular season. He struggle in the playoffs and then that's when Jimmy took the primary role as ballhandler because Simmons was struggling. CMon, man. Simmons didn't flourish by playing off the ball when Jimmy took the responsibility. If Simmons flourish in that role they would have easily beaten the Raptors.

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Oh right, and I must have forgotten about the multiple offball gamewinners Jimmy Butler hit in his short regular season tenure in Philadelphia.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#736 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:18 pm

stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
I think you don't watch the Sixers enough honestly. Simmons played a majority of his minutes off ball in the clutch last year and him and Butler were around equal usage rates in the playoffs. He's like a super soldier Draymond off ball.

A lob threat, great on boxing out and grabbing Orebs, put backs and finishing around the rim. He's probably one of the best in the league at it actually. Championship offenses win because of diversity and unpredictability. You need to have multiple shot creators and players that can cut into playoff caliber defenses from every level of the floor. Having Butler on the floor with Ben, Redick and Embiid allowed them to enter different sets and attack mismatches with different players coming up the court with the ball. Kevin Love doesn't provide that. Tobias Harris doesn't provide that. Chris Paul has provided that for many years in the past, and this current year. We need someone like that. Acquiring Kennard and Love puts us back at 2018 Sixers. The offense will be much more flowing than this year for sure, but that main onball threat is mia. Get me Kennard, Love and Paul. Hit the trade finder and make it work.


No man, Simmons was the primary ball handler during the regular season. He struggle in the playoffs and then that's when Jimmy took the primary role as ballhandler because Simmons was struggling. CMon, man. Simmons didn't flourish by playing off the ball when Jimmy took the responsibility. If Simmons flourish in that role they would have easily beaten the Raptors.

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Oh right, I must have forgotten about the multiple.. offball gamewinners Jimmy hit in his short regular season tenure in Philadelphia.


What does end of game shots have to do with being the primary dominant ball handler? Jimmy almost took the 76ers to the finals by defense and scoring in transition. Reggie Miller made a career of game winners and can't handle the ball at all. However, nowhere in this discussion were we talking scoring in the clutch. That's what all stars do or suppose to do.

That's a totally different discussion. That's something Embiid and Simmons have to evolve into. They are getting paid to do so.

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#737 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:25 pm

twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
No man, Simmons was the primary ball handler during the regular season. He struggle in the playoffs and then that's when Jimmy took the primary role as ballhandler because Simmons was struggling. CMon, man. Simmons didn't flourish by playing off the ball when Jimmy took the responsibility. If Simmons flourish in that role they would have easily beaten the Raptors.

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Oh right, I must have forgotten about the multiple.. offball gamewinners Jimmy hit in his short regular season tenure in Philadelphia.


What does end of game shots have to do with being the primary dominant ball handler?


You continue to incorrectly peddle some narrative about a transformational underperforming playoffs resulting in Ben losing ballhandling privileges when it's something that happened quite often all throughout the regular season. Clutch time regular season is usually the best indicator at predicting go to playoff trends and desperation schemes. Jimmy and Ben shared ballhandling duties but it was Jimmy who was most often trusted to make a play down the stretch when the Sixers needed someone to. Ben isn't currently a three level scorer, thus he can't be relied on at the moment to win the game for you down 2 or 3 points; and it'd be premature to design a future roster ignoring that current void especially considering it was that negligence that sunk the current Sixers team that exists today. Also, you can have more than one strong ballhandler in the lineup. Also, Ben is great offball. Also, he pretty much won the Sixers game 6 against the Raptors playing offball with a strong 20 point triple double.

You're wasting keystrokes misremembering or flat out just not knowing things about a basketball team you don't watch very often, or at all. There's a reason most Sixers fans feel a certain way and you're confused about it. Go back and watch some film. But anyways, I'm not moving Thybulle for Love and his fat ass contract, or adding another big with Horford still on the roster still toiling. thx
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#738 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:33 pm

stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
Oh right, I must have forgotten about the multiple.. offball gamewinners Jimmy hit in his short regular season tenure in Philadelphia.


What does end of game shots have to do with being the primary dominant ball handler?


You continue to incorrectly say that some transformational underperforming playoffs resulted in Ben losing ballhandling privileges when it'd been happening all regular season. Jimmy and Ben shared ballhandling duties and Jimmy was quite often the point guard in late game situations. Ben isn't currently a three level scorer, thus he can't be relied on at the moment to win the game for you down 2 or 3 points and it'd be premature to create a future roster making that assumption when that negligence sunk the current Sixers team that exists today. Also, you can have more than one ballhandler in the lineup. Also, Ben is great offball. Also, he pretty much won the Sixers game 6 against the Raptors with a strong 20 point triple double.

You're wasting keystrokes misremembering or flat out just not knowing things about a basketball team you don't watch very often, or at all. There's a reason most Sixers fans feel a certain way and you're confused about it. Go back and watch some film. But anyways, I'm not moving Thybulle for Love, or adding another big with Horford still on the roster still toiling. thx
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Read on Twitter
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Bro, so me and Jimmy have bad memories? The commentators during that playoffs pointed out the exact same thing.

Cmon fam!

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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#739 » by stormi » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:36 pm

twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
What does end of game shots have to do with being the primary dominant ball handler?


You continue to incorrectly say that some transformational underperforming playoffs resulted in Ben losing ballhandling privileges when it'd been happening all regular season. Jimmy and Ben shared ballhandling duties and Jimmy was quite often the point guard in late game situations. Ben isn't currently a three level scorer, thus he can't be relied on at the moment to win the game for you down 2 or 3 points and it'd be premature to create a future roster making that assumption when that negligence sunk the current Sixers team that exists today. Also, you can have more than one ballhandler in the lineup. Also, Ben is great offball. Also, he pretty much won the Sixers game 6 against the Raptors with a strong 20 point triple double.

You're wasting keystrokes misremembering or flat out just not knowing things about a basketball team you don't watch very often, or at all. There's a reason most Sixers fans feel a certain way and you're confused about it. Go back and watch some film. But anyways, I'm not moving Thybulle for Love, or adding another big with Horford still on the roster still toiling. thx
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Bro, so me and Jimmy have bad memories? The commentators during that playoffs pointed out the exact same thing.

Cmon fam!

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https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html

Jimmy's usage rate in the regular season, 22.1%, in the playoffs 22.9%.
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Re: Offseason plan : Fixing this mess 

Post#740 » by twix2500 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:38 pm

stormi wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
stormi wrote:
You continue to incorrectly say that some transformational underperforming playoffs resulted in Ben losing ballhandling privileges when it'd been happening all regular season. Jimmy and Ben shared ballhandling duties and Jimmy was quite often the point guard in late game situations. Ben isn't currently a three level scorer, thus he can't be relied on at the moment to win the game for you down 2 or 3 points and it'd be premature to create a future roster making that assumption when that negligence sunk the current Sixers team that exists today. Also, you can have more than one ballhandler in the lineup. Also, Ben is great offball. Also, he pretty much won the Sixers game 6 against the Raptors with a strong 20 point triple double.

You're wasting keystrokes misremembering or flat out just not knowing things about a basketball team you don't watch very often, or at all. There's a reason most Sixers fans feel a certain way and you're confused about it. Go back and watch some film. But anyways, I'm not moving Thybulle for Love, or adding another big with Horford still on the roster still toiling. thx
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Bro, so me and Jimmy have bad memories? The commentators during that playoffs pointed out the exact same thing.

Cmon fam!

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https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html

Jimmy's usage rate in the regular season, 22.1%, in the playoffs 22.9%.
So Jimmy and everyone is lying. Ok I gotcha

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