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Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler

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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#81 » by Sixerscan » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:40 pm

76ciology wrote:
XtremeDunkz wrote:Front office obviously trying to pin it all on Brown. Sad.


It’s unfair.

But like the previous post, how can you win when you can ask a player to do what you want them to do? I also find Biid to have poor conditioning. But I know that some people here are OK with that given his “300lbs 7’ frame”

You build a roster around Biid and Ben, expecting both guys will improve. But Ben has been the same player while Biid’s defense has been on a decline in the last 3 seasons.

Will the Lakers have any problems if their 3rd and 4th best players are Tobias and Horford, behind AD and LeBron?

It’s been reported (Pompey) that our guys also need some growing up to do. They’ve been treated like stars since their rookie year. Ask Ben why he won’t shoot and he’ll reply that he’s an allstar and you don’t have any rights to demand for more.

If you ask me, from a fellow fan’s opinion, we still expect both Biid and Ben to be at some point as good as AD and LeBron. And we know we’re not going to get that from Brett. So if you can see, we’re looking at Lue. Lue has experience from Bron so Ben might listen to Lue’s demands.

The coach we’re looking now is more than just X&Os. It’s more of who can be a leader that these guys can respond to in order to reach their potential.

Does anyone at this point think they should have brought Brown back? It was time for a change. But the point is if everyone else involved (ownership, front office, players) look at what happened this year and say it's all on the coach then we're probably going to be back here whenever next seasons ends talking about another disappointing ending.

Say what you want about Hinkie and now Brown, but one thing that was very apparent was that their chief focus was on putting together what they thought would be a winning team. They were never looking for individual credit or accolades.

You put that in contrast to first Colangelo and now the people he hired that remain, and even someone like Scott O'Neill, who all seemed *way* too focused on making sure that they got credit for whatever success the team had while making sure everyone knew the failures weren't their faults (in Colangelo's case he was so obsessed with that it blew up in his face and killed his career and the last public image we have of him is blaming everything on his wife and taking no responsibility).

That is what has to change if we want to get this franchise into shape. I don't want to hear anymore reports that some person in the front office didn't want to make this draft pick or that trade. I don't want to hear that the GM wanted to make one move but someone in ownership stepped in and decided they were going to do another. It's complete BS and not something you hear out of well functioning franchises, and yet somehow we have over a dozen examples of things like that happening over the last 4 years.

There needs to be one person making the decision, and whether that's Brand or someone brought in above him, and if you are an owner or work for this franchise you need to at least publicly stand by the decision. That's just how it works. When the Celtics were a complete tire fire last year you never heard about Mike Zarren or someone in Celtics ownership trashing the moves Ainge made or how Stevens was coaching. If you hire people to be the public face of your franchise you stand by them until they are fired.

And while a new coach may help, frankly I expect before they even meet with Ty Lue or whoever for the first time for Ben to be ready to shoot, Joel to be in shape, and them both to actually take ownership and be ready to be leaders of this team. If we have to wait for Ty Lue to yell at them or whatever during training camp it'll be too late.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#82 » by 76ciology » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:59 pm

Spoiler:
Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:
XtremeDunkz wrote:Front office obviously trying to pin it all on Brown. Sad.


It’s unfair.

But like the previous post, how can you win when you can ask a player to do what you want them to do? I also find Biid to have poor conditioning. But I know that some people here are OK with that given his “300lbs 7’ frame”

You build a roster around Biid and Ben, expecting both guys will improve. But Ben has been the same player while Biid’s defense has been on a decline in the last 3 seasons.

Will the Lakers have any problems if their 3rd and 4th best players are Tobias and Horford, behind AD and LeBron?

It’s been reported (Pompey) that our guys also need some growing up to do. They’ve been treated like stars since their rookie year. Ask Ben why he won’t shoot and he’ll reply that he’s an allstar and you don’t have any rights to demand for more.

If you ask me, from a fellow fan’s opinion, we still expect both Biid and Ben to be at some point as good as AD and LeBron. And we know we’re not going to get that from Brett. So if you can see, we’re looking at Lue. Lue has experience from Bron so Ben might listen to Lue’s demands.

The coach we’re looking now is more than just X&Os. It’s more of who can be a leader that these guys can respond to in order to reach their potential.

Does anyone at this point think they should have brought Brown back? It was time for a change. But the point is if everyone else involved (ownership, front office, players) look at what happened this year and say it's all on the coach then we're probably going to be back here whenever next seasons ends talking about another disappointing ending.

Say what you want about Hinkie and now Brown, but one thing that was very apparent was that their chief focus was on putting together what they thought would be a winning team. They were never looking for individual credit or accolades.

You put that in contrast to first Colangelo and now the people he hired that remain, and even someone like Scott O'Neill, who all seemed *way* too focused on making sure that they got credit for whatever success the team had while making sure everyone knew the failures weren't their faults (in Colangelo's case he was so obsessed with that it blew up in his face and killed his career and the last public image we have of him is blaming everything on his wife and taking no responsibility).

That is what has to change if we want to get this franchise into shape. I don't want to hear anymore reports that some person in the front office didn't want to make this draft pick or that trade. I don't want to hear that the GM wanted to make one move but someone in ownership stepped in and decided they were going to do another. It's complete BS and not something you hear out of well functioning franchises, and yet somehow we have over a dozen examples of things like that happening over the last 4 years.

There needs to be one person making the decision, and whether that's Brand or someone brought in above him, and if you are an owner or work for this franchise you need to at least publicly stand by the decision. That's just how it works. When the Celtics were a complete tire fire last year you never heard about Mike Zarren or someone in Celtics ownership trashing the moves Ainge made or how Stevens was coaching. If you hire people to be the public face of your franchise you stand by them until they are fired.

And while a new coach may help, frankly I expect before they even meet with Ty Lue or whoever for the first time for Ben to be ready to shoot, Joel to be in shape, and them both to actually take ownership and be ready to be leaders of this team. If we have to wait for Ty Lue to yell at them or whatever during training camp it'll be too late.


Sixerscan, we both could be wrong. This is discussion only ok?

There are two routes to winning.

1- You find really good players that you can slide Biid and Ben into your 3rd and 4th spot. Like maybe signing Bron when he was a FA or when we went hard to get Kawhi for Roco and scrubs.

2- You organically develop Biid and Ben. Let them live up to their potential. Be good enough that teams would say having Tobi and Al as your team’s 3rd and 4th best players would be unfair. Like for instance, think Lakers with Tobi and Al. (My gut feel is this will end by 2022. 3 year cycle)

I think we went route 1, like very hard. But it’s not really in our cards. Bron just used us as leverage in getting all his demands in LA. Kawhi is just a weird guy who likes LA.

Then we transitioned from route 1 to route 2, this season. The key guy that lead us from changing route was Jimmy.


If you are investigating for a crime, you look who has the motive. Ask yourself who would want Jimmy gone.. I think the very likely guy is Ben. Like when last season I was rooting hard for Jimmy, I wanted Ben gone. Offense was just so much better when Jimmy was in charge. Even Brett had surrendered and let Jimmy be the closer (i read recently about this).

Jimmy said about how some guys on the team only care about money and fame in his interview in JJ’s podcast. There’s no way he’s referring to James Ennis :lol: I’m pretty sure that’s Ben.

I really believe we choose Ben over Jimmy and it’s basically was the last straw for route 1 and this means we we will go ALL IN into route 2, which is relying Biid and Ben to live up to their potential.

Regarding the failure of the FO. I feel like we’re being unfair by looking at the result than the process with this regard. All you can do is check the trade threads when the Fultz, Jimmy or Tobias trades. Hell, recently someone even brought up the Al horford signing thread and everyone was happy with those moves.

Before the season started, we were the favorites to win the championship based on analytics of 538.

We turned a bunch of role players and draft picks that will likely draft guys who wont matter like Romeo Langford into Tobi and Butler. I think the FO deserve some credit for getting us the one of the most talented starting roster last season. And having one of the most talented starting 5 this season with a really deep bench. We constantly get talent that fit with basically bad paper asset like drafting Thybulle for whatever pick that is and getting Burks and Grob for whatever we traded for.


if there’s an award for most likeable coach or the nicest coach. I will vote for him. I feel so bad and almost teary eyed when i saw that clip of our locker room celebrating Brett’s first playoff series victory

But I think based on the info we’re getting, Brett is not really a good coach. BC even had D’Antoni as his back-up.

When it comes to coaching, Brett relied too much on the analytics. Like look how he went to the extreme in letting guys get open mid range shots that it made our defense predictable for the Celts.

His first year, he was really bad with his adjustments. Even I think Brett said it during one of our victories in 2018. He sticked to line-ups that weren’t working in a playoff series and his response was.. “but that was the best 5 man unit based on regular season NetRtg”.

If you watch how other team’s play. You’ll tell yourself how simple basketball should be but we’re just making it hard.

Why are we making it hard? Because this team was built for an Embiid and Ben to play like how the best of the bests player play nowadays, route 2. Enough talent to carry a team like how Luka carried the Mavs in G3. But no.. they are not good enough.

I mean.. Embiid said it himself how too much post offense may not be good. Sure. But what about your defense? I think we could have won 1 or 2 games if he played defense like in 1-2 years ago. His oncourt DRtg was 120.

Brett is not the answer in unlocking their potential. Ben and Biid don’t respond to his challenge anymore. Both guys won’t go the extra mile for him. I didnt see them playing 200% for their head coach to have his job. Biid kind of decided this (replacing Brett) even when the season started, when he played poorly the entire season.

Brett is again betrayed by the analytics. Ego and emotions can’t be predicted by the numbers.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#83 » by 76ciology » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:00 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#84 » by Sixerscan » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:02 pm

I don't think you really responded to my post there unless I'm missing something. I said it was time for Brown to go and I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Here's the first paragraph:

"Does anyone at this point think they should have brought Brown back? It was time for a change. But the point is if everyone else involved (ownership, front office, players) look at what happened this year and say it's all on the coach then we're probably going to be back here whenever next seasons ends talking about another disappointing ending."

My criticism of the front office is less about the moves (though we can talk about that, like the Fultz trade failed for reasons that the public had no way of knowing about but a good front office might have. They are the ones that traded for Butler in the first place and should have realized that him talking **** to the coach and a young player was inevitable) and more about how whenever a move doesn't work out it seems like a report comes out from someone within the organization that so and so within the organization is to blame for the move. It's just a sign that the organization not well run.

Enough of the palace intrigue. If Brand is gonna be in charge let him be in charge and anyone that's gonna leak to Keith Pompey or anyone that they weren't on board with some move they've gotta go.

And I don't know who you think was providing Brett with whatever you think is the "analytics", but it's the front office. Colangelo regularly bragged about he built out the biggest analytics staff in the league (which is classic corporate BS that we would expect from someone like him but that's neither here nor there).
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#85 » by elchengue20 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:35 am

How we let this man go? I understand his contract could look ugly in the final year or two, but for sure it was a better option than giving Tobias freaking Harris 180 million. Huge mistake by Brand, it crazy that it seems it won't cost him his job.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#86 » by stormi » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:56 am

Luv you BB but I want you in jail for this.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#87 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Sep 1, 2020 10:41 am

Imagine if we just kept it simple and re-signed Jimmy + JJ then S&T Harris to BKN for Dinwiddie + LaVert.

Dinwiddie/Milton
LaVert/JJ
Butler/Thybulle
Simmons/Scott
Embiid/MLE
2019-2020 Philadelphia 76ers:

Milton/Neto
Richardson/Korkmaz/Smith
Harris/Thybulle/Burks
Simmons/Robinson/Scott
Embiid/Horford/Pelle/O’Quinn
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#88 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Sep 1, 2020 10:46 am

Edit: double post
2019-2020 Philadelphia 76ers:

Milton/Neto
Richardson/Korkmaz/Smith
Harris/Thybulle/Burks
Simmons/Robinson/Scott
Embiid/Horford/Pelle/O’Quinn
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#89 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Sep 1, 2020 10:58 am

Edit: triple post, wow
2019-2020 Philadelphia 76ers:

Milton/Neto
Richardson/Korkmaz/Smith
Harris/Thybulle/Burks
Simmons/Robinson/Scott
Embiid/Horford/Pelle/O’Quinn
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#90 » by youngcrev » Tue Sep 1, 2020 11:16 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:Imagine if we just kept it simple and re-signed Jimmy + JJ then S&T Harris to BKN for Dinwiddie + LaVert.

Dinwiddie/Milton
LaVert/JJ
Butler/Thybulle
Simmons/Scott
Embiid/MLE


What's simple about a S&T that was never on the table?
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#91 » by ankle420breaker » Tue Sep 1, 2020 11:24 am

Imagine if we just ran it back with Ben, Joel, JJ, Jimmy, and Tobias like Elton Brand said he had authorization to do.

Clueless organization.

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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#92 » by 76ciology » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:00 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:Imagine if we just kept it simple and re-signed Jimmy + JJ then S&T Harris to BKN for Dinwiddie + LaVert.

Dinwiddie/Milton
LaVert/JJ
Butler/Thybulle
Simmons/Scott
Embiid/MLE


Imagine if we have chosen Ben over Jimmy then traded Ben for Dinwiddie and lavert.

Dinwiddie
Lavert
Jimmy
Tobias
Embiid

That starting five can give you atleast a 100points per game and enough offensive firepower to be a dynasty in the making.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#93 » by VDT » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:17 pm

If you want to go into these missed trade opportunities, we could have had Embiid, Kawhi and Butler last year and win the title.

I am not sure how these discussions help though.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#94 » by stormi » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:56 pm

imagine if we kept Butler and Redick but s&t Tobias for Kemba.

Kemba
Redick
Butler
Simmons
Embiid
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#95 » by youngcrev » Wed Sep 2, 2020 3:18 am

Imagine if we were able to create such a perfect simulation of reality that we could fast forward and know the outcome of any decision that we make... And then only used that technology for the betterment of our favorite basketball team.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#96 » by 76ciology » Wed Sep 2, 2020 7:28 am

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#97 » by rzzzzz » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:02 am

so we moved him ''cause you can't "control" him. he insists on playing the game the right way.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#98 » by Kova » Sat Sep 5, 2020 7:43 am

I was a bit sceptical about Butler's 5-year max, cause he is on the wrong side of the '30s, and given his injury history.

However, this season proved that he is really putting in work to stay healthy, and his experience is helping him and the team. He even improved since the last year.

That being said, we made a mistake. Should have signed him instead of Harris.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#99 » by kriss73 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 9:32 am

The sad truth is that bouncy shot will hunt us for years.
It was a big sliding door for us. Too big.
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Re: Report: Brett Brown played hand in breaking up team because he didn’t want to deal with Jimmy Butler 

Post#100 » by Zumramania » Sat Sep 5, 2020 10:37 am

Sixerscan wrote:
My criticism of the front office is less about the moves (though we can talk about that, like the Fultz trade failed for reasons that the public had no way of knowing about but a good front office might have. They are the ones that traded for Butler in the first place and should have realized that him talking **** to the coach and a young player was inevitable) and more about how whenever a move doesn't work out it seems like a report comes out from someone within the organization that so and so within the organization is to blame for the move. It's just a sign that the organization not well run.

Enough of the palace intrigue. If Brand is gonna be in charge let him be in charge and anyone that's gonna leak to Keith Pompey or anyone that they weren't on board with some move they've gotta go.


Imagine something like that happening in an organization anyone of us works for...If anyone was that stupid and narcissistic to begin with to feed accusations to the media, they would get fired on the spot and most probably sued for breaching NDA's. Or these "reports" are actually implicitly approved by the Sixers organization? I don't know what's worse. The Sixers don't even look like an organization from that perspective, it's more of a private party for Harris and co, a "Cargo cult" imitation of an organization.

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