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Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason

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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2021 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:23 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Fox will be 24 in December. Pretty damn close to the "figuring it out" age range. Closer to his prime than you're indicating. Also, just as bad a defender? In what world is De'Aron Fox a bad defender? He's one of the best create+defend+pass players in the league.


He’s already almost 24? That’s even more disappointing. Every metric has him grading out as a bad defender. Just because he gets steals doesn’t mean he’s not getting beat regularly on that end.
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2022 » by DCasey91 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:27 pm

I think the Blazers should hit the restart button and start over but that’s just me. The retooling on the Blazers is a lot here folks. CJ + Dame does not work

Could get a massive haul for Lillard/CJ and Nurkic in the end. They are just prolonging the inevitable.

It like 2x Wizards teams trying to defend each other just with more offensive spread potency as long as Carmelo wasn’t on the floor (Their teams Westbrook) and MPJ not crapping the bed for most of the series lol.

Trade MPJ for Turner, sign ball

Murray
Ball
Gordon
Turner
Jokic

... Now that’s a championship lineup for the Nuggets

For us man we are almost as stubborn as them, whatever happens this year our list still needs a retool (that should have been done many many moons ago imo).

CJ
Maxey
Thybulle
Simmons
Embiid

Isn’t quite the lineup that’s optimal. Lillard kills so many birds with one stone. Lillard on the floor makes Thybulle a lot more valuable/playable here.
Big questions over Danny Green in the off-season. A lot of contending teams would sign him in an instant and we are not good at keeping players unless there’s an overpay initially or after the fact (Redick, Harris, Horford).

With CJ his contract is set in stone. Beal for that exact matter is a no no. Like 100% no it’s a worse Butler all over again FA arrives get paid $$$.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2023 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:28 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Fox will be 24 in December. Pretty damn close to the "figuring it out" age range. Closer to his prime than you're indicating. Also, just as bad a defender? In what world is De'Aron Fox a bad defender? He's one of the best create+defend+pass players in the league.


He’s already almost 24? That’s even more disappointing. Every metric has him grading out as a bad defender. Just because he gets steals doesn’t mean he’s not getting beat regularly on that end.

The plus minus metrics? They're lineup and team dependent. The Kings are the 30th ranked defense.

Fox is universally considered a fantastic defender. Not sure if anyone has ever criticized his defense. I promise you that you wouldn't be disappointed with him, defensively. He's ferocious at the point of attack. He's just like DeJounte Murray with his wiry strength on a thin build and quick hands.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2024 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:36 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:Having good young creators sounds like ‘good’ basketball, but it’s not going to strike fear into our opponents. I’m talking about championships, not just ‘good’ fit and playing styles.

Historically, teams win when they have two top-20 players.

Another thing to note — if we trade Ben for someone like Fox or these rookie contract guards you’re mentioning and it doesn’t work out, best believe Jo will want the hell out of here. He was happiest when he had Butler to carry the load down the stretch with him. I can’t see him being thrilled or sold on the idea you’re proposing. Keep your superstar happy.

I mean, Brandon Ingram and De'Aaron Fox are multi-time 20+ ppg scorers in this league. It's not like we'd be trading for an unproven guy with no clout. And both offer way more shotcreating talent than Jimmy Butler. So Joel will be even more happy because both of those guys can do more down the stretch in the halfcourt than Jimmy could.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2025 » by DCasey91 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:37 pm

There isn’t a huge difference between Ja or Fox I rate them both.

Difference is Grizzlies are super solid defensively team wise. Kings suck booty overall.

Also guard defenders outside of truly elite ones like CP3 and beyond have impact that can move the needle they are not of great wing defender value and not even close to a great big mans defensive value.

Your buying Fox’s offense here.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2026 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:37 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Fox will be 24 in December. Pretty damn close to the "figuring it out" age range. Closer to his prime than you're indicating. Also, just as bad a defender? In what world is De'Aron Fox a bad defender? He's one of the best create+defend+pass players in the league.


He’s already almost 24? That’s even more disappointing. Every metric has him grading out as a bad defender. Just because he gets steals doesn’t mean he’s not getting beat regularly on that end.

The plus minus metrics? They're lineup and team dependent. The Kings are the 30th ranked defense.

Fox is universally considered a fantastic defender. Not sure if anyone has ever criticized his defense. I promise you that you wouldn't be disappointed with him, defensively. He's ferocious at the point of attack. He's just like DeJounte Murray with his wiry strength on a thin build and quick hands.


He’s not even as good on defense as John Wall was in his prime, who was overrated on that end too.

Also, you’re neglecting all the key points of what’s wrong with going for someone like Fox over Dame and fixating on these finer points that, quite frankly, don’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2027 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:44 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:He’s not even as good on defense as John Wall was in his prime, who was overrated on that end too.

Also, you’re neglecting all the key points of what’s wrong with going for someone like Fox over Dame and fixating on these finer points that, quite frankly, don’t matter in the grand scheme of things.

Ugh, Fox and Wall are both fantastic defenders. Dame Lillard is one of the worst defensive players in the sport so what's the point in fixating on defense, here?

I think you've been neglecting the key points about why going for Lillard is wrong this whole thread. Lillard will be 31 in July and on the worst contracts in the NBA. You want to "maximize" an imaginary window to "strike fear in the hearts of opponents" but your plan for attack is to ruin the franchise future in the next decade and put all your eggs in the basket of an injured 285 pounder and a 31 year old munchkin?
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2028 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:46 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:He’s not even as good on defense as John Wall was in his prime, who was overrated on that end too.

Also, you’re neglecting all the key points of what’s wrong with going for someone like Fox over Dame and fixating on these finer points that, quite frankly, don’t matter in the grand scheme of things.

Ugh, Fox and Wall are both fantastic defenders. Dame Lillard is one of the worst defensive players in the sport so what's the point in fixating on defense, here?

I think you've been neglecting the key points about why going for Lillard is wrong this whole thread. Lillard will be 31 in July and on the worst contracts in the NBA. You want to "maximize" an imaginary window to "strike fear in the hearts of opponents" but you plan for attack is to ruin the franchise future in the next decade and put all your eggs in the basket of an injured 285 pounder and a 31 year old munchkin?


No hyperbole here.

Since when did you care so much about defense anyways? I thought your whole argument is that shot creation = championships. Oh wait, I forgot, that doesn’t support your current argument so you have to switch sides on the fly...

PS Mike Conley and Steph Curry at age 33 say hello to your munchkin argument. As does 36 year old Chris Paul.
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2029 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:53 pm

DCasey91 wrote:There isn’t a huge difference between Ja or Fox I rate them both.

Difference is Grizzlies are super solid defensively team wise. Kings suck booty overall.

Also guard defenders outside of truly elite ones like CP3 and beyond have impact that can move the needle they are not of great wing defender value and not even close to a great big mans defensive value.

Your buying Fox’s offense here.

Yeah, I'm not one of those people that gets influenced by what guys in different organizations have done. I just look solely at their skillsets and talents and then try to project what they can do for me. Morant landed in Memphis, a much more solid organization than Sacramento. Judging players off pure talent, I think Fox is just outright better.

Shooting: Neither can shoot. Fox is attempting more threes but shooting poor percentage. Both are subpar free throw shooters in the low 70s. Wash.

Defense: No brainer. Fox was the better defender in both college and the NBA. Morant is currently a sieve.

Shotcreating: Fox, no question. Morant can run the pick and roll and get to the rim at a decent degree, but Fox is one of the best slashers at the position.

Passing: Both have been equal distributors at the NBA level but Morant was a passing phenom in college. He's going to eventually be a 40% distributor at the NBA level. Morant gets the nod.

Overall, Fox is better, though. He's just in a crappier organization.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2030 » by the_process » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:52 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Thankfully, Dame's loyalty will save us from a mistake. Looks like McCollum plus assets for Towns could be brewing.


If Minnesota trades Towns for McCollum/Nurkic/picks… that’s incompetence of the highest order.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2031 » by Negrodamus » Sun Jun 6, 2021 4:12 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
The moment Joel Embiid is no longer a top-10 player, we are no longer title contenders. Simple as that. Those Spurs teams worked because of Duncan's longevity as a top player. Joel doesn't project to have that same trajectory.

D'aaron Fox, leader of 3 consecutive lotto teams, isn't going to save us.

NAW, a young guard who's putting up ok stats on a lotto team, isn't going to save us.

If you're so obsessed with shot creators, you can trade for Dame (who by the way, happens to be one of the top 3 shot creators in the NBA) AND acquire other (lesser) shot creators via the draft, FA, and small trades. You don't pass on one of the best guards of this generation just to get NAW and hope for the best in 3-4 years.


I see merit in what both are saying. The one thing I'll say is that there's another PG that was the leader of 3 consecutive lottery teams and took off once stars were added. Kyrie had a similar ascension as Fox while having little league success. If De'Aaron played with Joel, he'd take off big time.


Fox is good. He won’t be hitting his prime anytime soon though. He’s not nearly the offensive talent Kyrie is, and is just as bad as a defender. Compared to Kyrie, his impact has been much worse as well. If Embiid goes down and we’re left with Fox, we’re still a borderline lotto team in the East. Why is that equally or even more appealing than the sure thing in Dame?


Probably not a popular opinion, but if we had Fox replacing Ben right now, I think we’d have a better chance of winning this series. I don’t think all situations are weighed the same way, but for our current roster construction, I think Ben’s defense could be supplemented by Green, Thybulle, and even what Fox brings to the table (he’d hound Trae a bit). But what Ben can’t do is take over scoring for stretches of the game. That’s what will be our undoing in this series: stagnant offense.

That’s why it will be guys like Tobias, Maxey, possibly Shake that will be the difference in this series, not Ben. Hope he proves me wrong, but his scoring production has left a bit to be desired so far.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2032 » by 51X3RF4N » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:27 am

Harris/Simmons

For

Curry/Green

Does GSW do this deal?

I doubt it lol

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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2033 » by DCasey91 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:48 am

Simmons + Maxey + three 1sts for Lillard now we are good to go imo.

I like Ben as what he is (3rd) but I’ll always trade for a legitimate 1a/1b option and frankly the most important player on our teams setup. Both match identically (2 years of elite play clean run type stuff).

Lillard
Hill
Green
Harris
Embiid

That’s great. I’m off on Beal/Lavine etc. we need a primary on ball creator, pnr specialist and can score great. 25+/7 type numbers. I’m kind of coming around to Fox though I don’t buy his shooting at all.
Lillard is the perfect player to go for if we are serious about this imho.

Divy up most of the offensive capability between the three and surround them with defenders that can shoot, done and done.

We have two big overpays currently anyway. At least Lillard provides constant elite guard play that pairs perfectly with an elite big man. It’s how it should have been structured from the beginning. Way too much pussyfooting around for years.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2034 » by Slick SickSir » Mon Jun 7, 2021 2:58 am

DCasey91 wrote:Simmons + Maxey + three 1sts for Lillard now we are good to go imo.

I like Ben as what he is (3rd) but I’ll always trade for a legitimate 1a/1b option and frankly the most important player on our teams setup. Both match identically (2 years of elite play clean run type stuff).

Lillard
Hill
Green
Harris
Embiid

That’s great. I’m off on Beal/Lavine etc. we need a primary on ball creator, pnr specialist and can score great. 25+/7 type numbers. I’m kind of coming around to Fox though I don’t buy his shooting at all.
Lillard is the perfect player to go for if we are serious about this imho.

Divy up most of the offensive capability between the three and surround them with defenders that can shoot, done and done.

We have two big overpays currently anyway. At least Lillard provides constant elite guard play that pairs perfectly with an elite big man. It’s how it should have been structured from the beginning. Way too much pussyfooting around for years.


We would still have curry, thybulle, and shake off the bench in this scenario as well. Possibly korkmaz

This would be an infinitely better playoff team than our current one
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2035 » by DCasey91 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:06 am

Slick SickSir wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:Simmons + Maxey + three 1sts for Lillard now we are good to go imo.

I like Ben as what he is (3rd) but I’ll always trade for a legitimate 1a/1b option and frankly the most important player on our teams setup. Both match identically (2 years of elite play clean run type stuff).

Lillard
Hill
Green
Harris
Embiid

That’s great. I’m off on Beal/Lavine etc. we need a primary on ball creator, pnr specialist and can score great. 25+/7 type numbers. I’m kind of coming around to Fox though I don’t buy his shooting at all.
Lillard is the perfect player to go for if we are serious about this imho.

Divy up most of the offensive capability between the three and surround them with defenders that can shoot, done and done.

We have two big overpays currently anyway. At least Lillard provides constant elite guard play that pairs perfectly with an elite big man. It’s how it should have been structured from the beginning. Way too much pussyfooting around for years.


We would still have curry, thybulle, and shake off the bench in this scenario as well. Possibly korkmaz

This would be an infinitely better playoff team than our current one


Yep there’s still plenty of flexibility left over imo. Our starting unit is great which is what we need well balanced side inside and out. Bench is fine, Curry can be sixth man, resign Howard that’s a 8 man unit plus Thybulle. Playoffs are 8-9 deep anyway. extra depth in Korkmaz then look for scorers (Burks, Burke, Williams on min contracts just there for a scoring punch, even BBall Paul can play a role here). Plenty of budget options to get that won’t cost much.

Would even throw in Milton just to get the deal done.
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