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Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason

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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2001 » by Foshan » Sun Jun 6, 2021 9:39 am

the_process wrote:If the Wolves keep their pick, assuming the Blazers then want to tank...

MIN gets Simmons
POR gets Edwards, Rubio, MIN 1st, PHI 2023 1st
PHI gets Lillard

The Blazers can figure out what to do with Rubio and CJ after the fact.


The perpetual youth movement guy in me would want to take Edwards/Green (#3) and run them with Maxey and see what happens. Maybe that's what happens when you've spent soooo many years draft boards watching and not competing. Or not wanting to pay Dame 54M in a few years. I don't know.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2002 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:28 am

the_process wrote:If the Wolves keep their pick, assuming the Blazers then want to tank...

MIN gets Simmons
POR gets Edwards, Rubio, MIN 1st, PHI 2023 1st
PHI gets Lillard

The Blazers can figure out what to do with Rubio and CJ after the fact.


I like this iteration or the one with Golden State (Wiggins, Wiseman, MIN pick to Portland). Regardless, I think Simmons is the most valuable available piece for Dame, whether he goes directly to Portland or not.

In terms of 'going young' or getting younger guards to pair with Embiid...why? Embiid has maybe 4 prime years left. We need to maximize his window. There's no route to a championship outside of him. We don't have time to develop young guys anymore. He's gotten injured every year. Why should we pretend to believe that a 32-year-old Embiid can still be the best player on a championship team? The process is peaking NOW.

Is Dame's contract ridiculous? Sure. Is he a bonafide top-15 player? Yes. Of all the available options, does he give us the best shot to win a title? Yes. It shouldn't matter if you're paying Simmons $37 mil vs Dame $51 mil if one wins us a chip and the other doesn't -- you can never overpay for a title.

Even if Dame drops off after 3 years, that's one year of Dame being *just* an all-star caliber guard instead of a superstar. Steph is doing AMAZING things at age 33. Dame will be 31 in July. Historically, most superstars tend to fall off at ~34-35. The odds of winning a chip(s) with prime Embiid + Dame over the next 4 years >>> anything else.

Let's not overthink this guys. Thankfully, I don't think Morey will.
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2003 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:39 am

We don't need Embiid to be in his prime to win a championship.

We can keep drafting young creators like Maxey and build this thing the right way.

Or you trade Ben Simmons for a similarly aged creator on a similar contract (Fox, Ingram, etc).

Or you trade 1st rounder and someone like Milton for a recent draft-creator still on a rookie deal (Nickeil, etc)
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2004 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:43 am

Kobblehead wrote:We don't need Embiid to be in his prime to win a championship.

We can keep drafting young creators like Maxey and build this thing the right way.

Or you trade Ben Simmons for a similarly aged creator on a similar contract (Fox, Ingram, etc).

Or you trade 1st rounder and someone like Milton for a recent draft-creator still on a rookie deal (Nickeil, etc)


So you're saying Tyrese Maxey or D'aaron Fox can be the best player on a championship team?

What team in recent memory has won a chip without a top-10 player?
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2005 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:54 am

Joel Embiid would be the best player. You just surround him with a stable of talented creators. De'Aaron Fox is already better than Tony Parker. Can Maxey be better than Patty Mills? Can we get a Ginoboli?

There are other options for us to build an elite, Finals team other than ruining the next decade of Sixers basketball by doubling down and attempting to maximize an imaginary window.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2006 » by Stanford » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:59 am

How comfortably can Tobias slide into the Rasho Nesterovic role?
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2007 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:04 pm

Stanford wrote:How comfortably can Tobias slide into the Rasho Nesterovic role?

Can you project this current Spurs iteration of Rudy Gay onto those Spurs teams that were actually winning? 'cause there's how Tobias would fit in.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2008 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:15 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Joel Embiid would be the best player. You just surround him with a stable of talented creators. De'Aaron Fox is already better than Tony Parker. Can Maxey be better than Patty Mills? Can we get a Ginoboli?

There are other options for us to build an elite, Finals team other than ruining the next decade of Sixers basketball by doubling down and attempting to maximize an imaginary window.


The moment Joel Embiid is no longer a top-10 player, we are no longer title contenders. Simple as that. Those Spurs teams worked because of Duncan's longevity as a top player. Joel doesn't project to have that same trajectory.

D'aaron Fox, leader of 3 consecutive lotto teams, isn't going to save us.

NAW, a young guard who's putting up ok stats on a lotto team, isn't going to save us.

If you're so obsessed with shot creators, you can trade for Dame (who by the way, happens to be one of the top 3 shot creators in the NBA) AND acquire other (lesser) shot creators via the draft, FA, and small trades. You don't pass on one of the best guards of this generation just to get NAW and hope for the best in 3-4 years.
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2009 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:20 pm

Nah, no thanks. Trading for Dame would ruin this franchise for the next decade. And then you're banking on Joel staying healthy and Dame not falling off the cliff (the cliff comes for 6' munchkins in their 30s very fast). Unnecessary risk.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2010 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:29 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Nah, no thanks. Trading for Dame would ruin this franchise for the next decade. And then you're banking on Joel staying healthy and Dame not falling off the cliff (the cliff comes for 6' munchkins in their 30s very fast). Unnecessary risk.


So your argument is that you'd rather rely on these "young guards" over Dame to carry the team if Embiid goes down? What you're describing in that scenario is a lotto team. I don't understand how that's any better than going for it all and potentially falling short.

The odds of at least 1 championship in 4 years is very high with a Dame/Tobias/Embiid trio in their primes. The alternative(s), one of which you are describing, are not any better.
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2011 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:46 pm

I'd rather have a continuous faucet of young creators being poured into the program and just hope for a healthy Embiid to be the cherry.

Trading for Dame is signing up for the certainty the Sixers basketball will be trash until the late 2020s.

You can't just assume Dame+Embiid = high championship odds. Dame + looming cliff lowers those odds. Joel's rapidly diminishing durability lowers those odds even further. How can odds for a championship be high when our odds for getting those two to the conference finals in perfect condition over the next three years will be so low?

You're taking on the certainty of rock bottom finish and the perceived improvement on the championship odds aren't fully vetted.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2012 » by Negrodamus » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:53 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Joel Embiid would be the best player. You just surround him with a stable of talented creators. De'Aaron Fox is already better than Tony Parker. Can Maxey be better than Patty Mills? Can we get a Ginoboli?

There are other options for us to build an elite, Finals team other than ruining the next decade of Sixers basketball by doubling down and attempting to maximize an imaginary window.


The moment Joel Embiid is no longer a top-10 player, we are no longer title contenders. Simple as that. Those Spurs teams worked because of Duncan's longevity as a top player. Joel doesn't project to have that same trajectory.

D'aaron Fox, leader of 3 consecutive lotto teams, isn't going to save us.

NAW, a young guard who's putting up ok stats on a lotto team, isn't going to save us.

If you're so obsessed with shot creators, you can trade for Dame (who by the way, happens to be one of the top 3 shot creators in the NBA) AND acquire other (lesser) shot creators via the draft, FA, and small trades. You don't pass on one of the best guards of this generation just to get NAW and hope for the best in 3-4 years.


I see merit in what both are saying. The one thing I'll say is that there's another PG that was the leader of 3 consecutive lottery teams and took off once stars were added. Kyrie had a similar ascension as Fox while having little league success. If De'Aaron played with Joel, he'd take off big time.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2013 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:57 pm

Yeah, I don't get that jab at Fox.

It makes no sense to judge the winning acumen of early 20s guys in trash organizations.

Didn't Devin Booker just own all the people calling him a career loser?
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2014 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:03 pm

Thankfully, Dame's loyalty will save us from a mistake. Looks like McCollum plus assets for Towns could be brewing.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2015 » by DCasey91 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:07 pm

If Dame is available you bet your bottom dollar we’d be gunning for him. Age aside, this is a player you go for when you have the championship cornerstone (Embiid).

Youth is all well and good but the next two years is critical, Lillard gives us the best chance to win it all imo.

We may only have one clean run at the thing in totality I’d rather have Embiid + Lillard and worry about the rest then Embiid and no Lillard.

But the most obvious one is MCCollum for Harris + extra assets. Blazers don’t need him at all. And they themselves should be looking towards the next stage of what they want to do moving forward.

Clean house and use Harris as the player to absorb extra $$$, who knows but they should be great trading partners very very soon.

The only young player I’d want is Green that’s the only one warrants extensive assets for a young player. If he’s there at pick three I’d be very very tempted because that prospect is potential best in draft in 3 years time.

Blazers org makes no sense why in the world would they go for Towns, that archetype doesn’t produce winning impact it just doesn’t, never has & never will.

Myles Turner on the other hand with the Blazers/Nuggets/Nets/Mavs gee whiz look the hell out, that’s an undervalued really good player if I ever saw one.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2016 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:11 pm

I don't think Dame would view Harris as a good enough 2nd banana, and thus, may not sign off on that trade.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2017 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:16 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Joel Embiid would be the best player. You just surround him with a stable of talented creators. De'Aaron Fox is already better than Tony Parker. Can Maxey be better than Patty Mills? Can we get a Ginoboli?

There are other options for us to build an elite, Finals team other than ruining the next decade of Sixers basketball by doubling down and attempting to maximize an imaginary window.


The moment Joel Embiid is no longer a top-10 player, we are no longer title contenders. Simple as that. Those Spurs teams worked because of Duncan's longevity as a top player. Joel doesn't project to have that same trajectory.

D'aaron Fox, leader of 3 consecutive lotto teams, isn't going to save us.

NAW, a young guard who's putting up ok stats on a lotto team, isn't going to save us.

If you're so obsessed with shot creators, you can trade for Dame (who by the way, happens to be one of the top 3 shot creators in the NBA) AND acquire other (lesser) shot creators via the draft, FA, and small trades. You don't pass on one of the best guards of this generation just to get NAW and hope for the best in 3-4 years.


I see merit in what both are saying. The one thing I'll say is that there's another PG that was the leader of 3 consecutive lottery teams and took off once stars were added. Kyrie had a similar ascension as Fox while having little league success. If De'Aaron played with Joel, he'd take off big time.


Fox is good. He won’t be hitting his prime anytime soon though. He’s not nearly the offensive talent Kyrie is, and is just as bad as a defender. Compared to Kyrie, his impact has been much worse as well. If Embiid goes down and we’re left with Fox, we’re still a borderline lotto team in the East. Why is that equally or even more appealing than the sure thing in Dame?
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2018 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:17 pm

DCasey91 wrote:Blazers org makes no sense why in the world would they go for Towns, that archetype doesn’t produce winning impact it just doesn’t, never has & never will.

Towns' archetype doesn't produce singular impact on winning. Blazers aren't in need of that, though. They're already a winning organization. It appears they're just looking to add firepower of the non-munchkin variety.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2019 » by Kobblehead » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:19 pm

Fox will be 24 in December. Pretty damn close to the "figuring it out" age range. Closer to his prime than you're indicating. Also, just as bad a defender? In what world is De'Aron Fox a bad defender? He's one of the best create+defend+pass players in the league.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread: 2020 Offseason 

Post#2020 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:20 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I'd rather have a continuous faucet of young creators being poured into the program and just hope for a healthy Embiid to be the cherry.

Trading for Dame is signing up for the certainty the Sixers basketball will be trash until the late 2020s.

You can't just assume Dame+Embiid = high championship odds. Dame + looming cliff lowers those odds. Joel's rapidly diminishing durability lowers those odds even further. How can odds for a championship be high when our odds for getting those two to the conference finals in perfect condition over the next three years will be so low?

You're taking on the certainty of rock bottom finish and the perceived improvement on the championship odds aren't fully vetted.


Having good young creators sounds like ‘good’ basketball, but it’s not going to strike fear into our opponents. I’m talking about championships, not just ‘good’ fit and playing styles.

Historically, teams win when they have two top-20 players.

Another thing to note — if we trade Ben for someone like Fox or these rookie contract guards you’re mentioning and it doesn’t work out, best believe Jo will want the hell out of here. He was happiest when he had Butler to carry the load down the stretch with him. I can’t see him being thrilled or sold on the idea you’re proposing. Keep your superstar happy.
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Maxey/Milton
Curry/Hill/Korkmaz
Green/Thybulle/Joe
Harris/Scott/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed

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