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Welcome Tyrese Maxey!

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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#21 » by Mik317 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:46 pm

your continued acting like things are set in stone baffles me after being so wrong about the Lakers.

You just pivot to a new talking point and pound it into the ground lol. A season ago defense didn't even matter to you and it was all about 3 level scoring and whatnot....

Maxey is definitely a work in progress in general but to act like he will NEVER become a passable defender is nuts to me. Kid works hard and isn't a stiff or super tiny; Ben was a **** ass defender in college too (albeit more of an effort thing)...let these kids grow.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#22 » by Kobblehead » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:52 pm

Mik317 wrote:your continued acting like things are set in stone baffles me after being so wrong about the Lakers.

You just pivot to a new talking point and pound it into the ground lol. A season ago defense didn't even matter to you and it was all about 3 level scoring and whatnot....

Maxey is definitely a work in progress in general but to act like he will NEVER become a passable defender is nuts to me. Kid works hard and isn't a stiff or super tiny; Ben was a **** ass defender in college too (albeit more of an effort thing)...let these kids grow.

How was I so wrong about the Lakers?

They won a vacation tournament where 80% of the league didn't even want to play in. Including the prohibited favorites of the league. Lol at thinking that somehow proves teams that lack shotcreation should be viewed as title favorites in a real season.

Nonsense, Simmons was one of the best defensive players in the nation. Again, network analysts passing bad defensive opinions onto the general public.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#23 » by cool93 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:57 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
Mik317 wrote:your continued acting like things are set in stone baffles me after being so wrong about the Lakers.

You just pivot to a new talking point and pound it into the ground lol. A season ago defense didn't even matter to you and it was all about 3 level scoring and whatnot....

Maxey is definitely a work in progress in general but to act like he will NEVER become a passable defender is nuts to me. Kid works hard and isn't a stiff or super tiny; Ben was a **** ass defender in college too (albeit more of an effort thing)...let these kids grow.

How was I so wrong about the Lakers?

They won a vacation tournament where 80% of the league didn't even want to play in. Including the prohibited favorites of the league. Lol at thinking that somehow proves teams that lack shotcreation should be viewed as title favorites in a real season.

Nonsense, Simmons was one of the best defensive players in the nation. Again, network analysts passing bad defensive opinions onto the general public.


Lol at that one. Lakers smoked everyone on their way to the title. And that with losing home court advantage they would have (and playing EVERY game at home in hypothetical series against Clippers). Sometimes it's better to just take an L.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#24 » by Mik317 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:57 pm

and prior to this "vacation" tournement; you repeatedly said they had no shot at winning it. In fact the only way they could have won it was injury.

This **** isn't that serious but man your constant "smartest man in the room" act is funny as hell to me. You always find a way to come out on top despite earlier saying something would never happen. Your pivot to shot creation only is probably in part of you saying Giannis was never going to be **** those years back..I can see it now if they win it all, you giving most of the credit to Jrue or someone.

I am not even saying Maxey is going to be a lock down defender that shuts down all he sees...but to say he has NO CHANCE at being even a good defender based off what he did as a freshman in college just doesn't make much sense to me.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#25 » by Kobblehead » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:58 pm

Mik317 wrote:your continued acting like things are set in stone baffles me

I'm baffled by the notion that everyone is a handful of clay that can be molded into whatever fans want them to be.

Setting up unrealistic expectations only results in disappointment and resentment.

Expecting Maxey to be able to defend at the NBA level is unrealistic and unfair. Just like expecting Thad Young to be able to score off the dribble and develop into a two-way star was unfair.

Have expectations based on what prospects displayed in college, not what you want them to be.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#26 » by Mik317 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:05 pm

or maybe give people time to grow and learn? Its not about being a ball of clay. These dudes are going to be in a nba training staff and most of them not have to be one of the main options, and be taught up by the best coaches in the world. Its not even about them doing things they can't do at that point. Thad scoring off the dribble is a talent thing (and I'd argue if we didn't spend so much time with no actual guards, he could have improved there as well but I digress) but even he made other improvements over the course of his time here.

Your supreme POV from jump clouds even the most minute chance of things perhaps not going the way you prognosticated. And when they do, you simply pivot to another point or just act like you never said that.

Again Maxey does have to work on his game total. There is a reason he fell to 21. There is a chance that yeah he is a zero on the defensive end. There is always a chance that things just don't translate...but holy **** the supreme confidence that it won't is just weird to me.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#27 » by 51X3RF4N » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:11 pm

Below is a collection of very bright scouting minds commenting on Maxeys defense...


The immediate eye-catching skill Maxey possesses is in being a pesky, active on ball defender. He tallied an incredible mark of 0.26 points per possession allowed in one-on-one situations, which placed him in the 97th percentile of college players. His 6’7 ¾” wingspan was an immediate havoc creator for producing turnovers and awkward shots.
Here is Maxey defending probable top-three pick Anthony Edwards around a pin down screen and finishing with a tough closeout.
It’s not a rare occurrence to see Maxey pick up his opponent at 3⁄4 court or even full court to slow down team’s ability to get into their offensive set. His lateral agility to cut the handler off from getting to the top of the key is a sight to behold
Maxey’s hustle is second to none. He is often seen fighting through screens, making life difficult for those who handle the ball with his active hands and rapidly shuffling feet to stay in proper defensive position. Despite logging over 34 minutes a game, he almost never showed signs of slowing down late in the second half of games

Defense

Best utilized defending the primary ball handler

Guarding two-guards seems promising, as long as they aren’t too big

Good instincts, sees plays before they happen

Not really a gambler, which is usually a good thing, but sometimes misses out on a big play opportunity (think Maxi Kleber’s interior defense)

He is a good all-around athlete who can play above the rim with a head of steam and move his feet well on the defensive end.


Despite regularly guarding taller wings, Maxey held his own on the defensive end last season.  He may not have forced many turnovers, but he used his size and length well to pressure the ball and allowed only  0.26 points per one-on-one possession [97th percentile].  Doing a nice job getting over screens at times and containing smaller guards in spurts, he showed the two-way potential that earned him accolades at the prep level.

Although he doesn’t have great size he’s a stout defender who can hold his own against taller players and keep pace with point guards. He’s pesky and tenacious and plays hard on defense.


Awareness / Team Defense: Good awareness on the perimeter and interior (though size limits his rim protection potential as a help defender). Does a good job with his positional help defense and rotates well. Tags and recovers, stunts (forcing guys to change directions, pick up dribble, etc), hands usually out, head is usually on a swivel keeping track of his man and the ball, and he is quick to react to help situations when there is an open man 1 pass from the ball – nice job anticipating where the next pass will be. I really like his digs – active, quick hands reaching in and pulling back, making drivers uncomfortable / forcing them to pick up dribble, etc. Has not been a huge defensive playmaker this year for Kentucky (and his 1.4% steal and block percentages line up to Malik Monk’s at Kentucky (1.6% and 1.5% respectively) and his 2.8% total STOCKs is the lowest of any 6’6 player and smaller under Coach Calipari…which is not a good sign. Two things to note. First, he’s opportunistic with his steal attempts – he picks his spots and does not gamble much, but when he does go to make a play, he does a nice job making the correct decision in doing so. Second, in AAU and with FIBA, Maxey showed defensive playmaking prowess both on ball and off ball, showing the ability to jump passing lanes and protect the rim (on and off ball a little), being the only player in EYBL with 30+ steals and 15+ blocks.

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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#28 » by Kobblehead » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:13 pm

Mik317 wrote:or maybe give people time to grow and learn?


I'd be thrilled with the organic reversing of a weakness into a strength.

But to deny that weakness and pass it off as a strength is both terrible analysis and irresponsible in regards to expectation setting. Studio analysts saying Maxey can defend are being bad at their job. Daryl Morey saying that Maxey can play defense and giving the impression that he's a multi-position defender is giving bad analysis and being irresponsible in creating a false impression for the fanbase of the kid we just drafted.

The only thing Daryl Morey should be talking about right now is Maxey's ability to create off the dribble. He should be selling the fanbase on Maxey's tremendous ability to score in the halfcourt. He's being bad at his job selling a myth to the fanbase and giving a false impression of Maxey. Or maybe he's trying to publicly shame him into becoming a two-way player. Either way, he's being disingenuous.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#29 » by 51X3RF4N » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:17 pm

These are the resources I was using, plus my own eyeballs, when I mention he is a good PoA defender with speed and lateral quickness and something the Sixers have lacked (other than TJ) for years.

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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#30 » by Kobblehead » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:18 pm

51X3RF4N wrote:He may not have forced many turnovers, but he used his size and length well to pressure the ball and allowed only  0.26 points per one-on-one possession [97th percentile]. 


That's because he didn't defend anyone who could score off the dribble! Maxey was hidden defensively by being stuck on catch-and-shoot players.

Any opposing player worth a damn that Kentucky went up against was guarded by Ashton Hagans.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#31 » by Kobblehead » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:18 pm

Negrodamas is an actual Kentucky fan. Let's hear his thoughts on Maxey's defense.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#32 » by Negrodamus » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:19 pm

I don't think Maxey was a complete lost cause on defense for Kentucky, but he certainly didn't seem good. It felt like he'd have nice POA possessions where he'd stop a guy or filter him towards Nick Richards. He did seem lost on help defense more times than I like, which could be a product of being a freshman. He doesn't have that inherent defensive instincts that a Hagans, or even fellow freshman Devin Vassell, has. But he puts in effort, which is promising.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#33 » by cool93 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:22 pm

Everywhere I look, I see Maxey described as a solid defender. I guess everyone are being disingenuous.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#34 » by 51X3RF4N » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:24 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Negrodamas is an actual Kentucky fan. Let's hear his thoughts on Maxey's defense.
Lol yes, a fans perspective thats what we need.

Regardless, I can see you will die on this hill, and I simply won't. We shall see what time tells.

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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#35 » by Kobblehead » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:30 pm

cool93 wrote:Everywhere I look, I see Maxey described as a solid defender. I guess everyone are being disingenuous.

Make note of what sources are saying this and evaluate their takes after seeing Maxey in action. That's the best advice I can give you.

We saw many Gs who were defensive studs come out of Kentucky in recent years:
- John Wall
- Eric Bledsoe
- DeAaron Fox
- Shai Alexander
- Ashton Hagans (the next one)

We also saw many Wildcat Gs come out who were defensive sieves:
- Brandon Knight
- Marquis Teague
- Archie Goodwin
- Jamal Murray
- Malik Monk


Run the numbers and tell me which group Maxey has more commonalities with, defensively.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#36 » by Mik317 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:37 pm

The latter 4 are also all space cadets.....

I'm not even saying Maxey is going to be a great defender either. I just push back against the notion that he will be a liability on that end long term.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#37 » by Negrodamus » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:37 pm

51X3RF4N wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Negrodamas is an actual Kentucky fan. Let's hear his thoughts on Maxey's defense.
Lol yes, a fans perspective thats what we need.

Regardless, I can see you will die on this hill, and I simply won't. We shall see what time tells.

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I mean, don't take my word for it, do you own research. Here, I'll timestamp the defensive portion of an hour long scouting video of Maxey. I feel like he's a high effort guy on defense. He also had a tendency to play bad defense (great offense though) in crunch time of a close game. I don't anticipate he'll pick up elite defensive intuition, but I think he can be a hard working defender still that isn't completely exploitable.

https://youtu.be/QeBE572vJqw?t=4192

I also have some takes about his offense that concerns me, but that's for another time. He was a clutch scorer though.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#38 » by Kobblehead » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:51 pm

Mik317 wrote:The latter 4 are also all space cadets.....

I'm not even saying Maxey is going to be a great defender either. I just push back against the notion that he will be a liability on that end long term.

Are were sure Maxey isn't a space cadet?

His complete lack of defensive plays made suggests a lack of defensive awareness/instincts. His terrible shooting percentage despite being a really strong shooting talent suggests his poor shot selection.

When I think of known space cadets in the NBA, many of them are low IQ defenders with awful shot selection.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#39 » by 76ciology » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:51 pm

Defense? Who cares.

How good can he be on offense? That’s the question IMO.
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Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#40 » by Mik317 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:53 pm

Yall got it lol.
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