ImageImageImage

Welcome Tyrese Maxey!

Moderators: BullyKing, HartfordWhalers, Foshan, sixers hoops, Sixerscan

HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 10,430
And1: 5,774
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#761 » by HotelVitale » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:26 pm

kuclas wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
Madd Squabbles wrote:Maxey reminds me of Sexton which is good because I really like Sexton. I was willing to trade Simmons for him but we may already have him in Maxey.

Fellas, Sexton just averaged 24+ ppg on solid efficiency, Maxey averaged 8 on meh efficiency. I get that if you squint there are some similarities but let the guy be a decent rotation player first before deciding who or what he is.
Sexton is a better player right now. He’s a better shooter as well.

But how much more is sexton really when adjusted for age/experience and minutes played as well as being the number 1 option than maxey.

I agree. We need to get maxey more minutes. See what he can do. But the kid was a 5 star recruit for a reason. Maxey is already a good free throw shooter which usually translate to good 3 point shooting. Plus maxey on rookie contract.


I mean, I'm all for optimism but, no, it's not the expected course for someone to shoot from 8ppg as a rookie to 25ppg two years later. That obviously almost never happens. And like 30 people are 5 star recruits every year, most of em don't come anywhere close to being decent NBA players, let alone scoring 25ppg.

I'm excited for this season and following Maxey's progression in it, just think it doesn't do anyone any good to not appreciate how difficult it is to be good in the NBA. It's a big achievement if Maxey becomes a solid score-first 7th man soon and he'll have to make real and sustained improvements to get there. To go beyond that will be very impressive and I want to be able to give him fair props if he does do it.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 34,972
And1: 15,042
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#762 » by Kobblehead » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:34 pm

18.8 ppg per-36.

There's a very easy path to a PPG explosion for Maxey with a starter role.
User avatar
Arsenal
RealGM
Posts: 11,564
And1: 6,415
Joined: Jun 05, 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#763 » by Arsenal » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:49 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
kuclas wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:Fellas, Sexton just averaged 24+ ppg on solid efficiency, Maxey averaged 8 on meh efficiency. I get that if you squint there are some similarities but let the guy be a decent rotation player first before deciding who or what he is.
Sexton is a better player right now. He’s a better shooter as well.

But how much more is sexton really when adjusted for age/experience and minutes played as well as being the number 1 option than maxey.

I agree. We need to get maxey more minutes. See what he can do. But the kid was a 5 star recruit for a reason. Maxey is already a good free throw shooter which usually translate to good 3 point shooting. Plus maxey on rookie contract.


I mean, I'm all for optimism but, no, it's not the expected course for someone to shoot from 8ppg as a rookie to 25ppg two years later. That obviously almost never happens. And like 30 people are 5 star recruits every year, most of em don't come anywhere close to being decent NBA players, let alone scoring 25ppg.

I'm excited for this season and following Maxey's progression in it, just think it doesn't do anyone any good to not appreciate how difficult it is to be good in the NBA. It's a big achievement if Maxey becomes a solid score-first 7th man soon and he'll have to make real and sustained improvements to get there. To go beyond that will be very impressive and I want to be able to give him fair props if he does do it.


Tyrese Maxey's age 20 season was better than Collin Sexton's age 20 season on a per possession basis. The only reason Maxey didn't get huge minutes is because we are a title contender while the Cavs were total trash. It's not a stretch at all to think Maxey can be just as good as Sexton is now in a couple of years.

If Maxey got the green light on a terrible team like Sexton has, he could put up Sexton type numbers right now.
HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 10,430
And1: 5,774
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#764 » by HotelVitale » Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:23 am

Arsenal wrote: Tyrese Maxey's age 20 season was better than Collin Sexton's age 20 season on a per possession basis. The only reason Maxey didn't get huge minutes is because we are a title contender while the Cavs were total trash. It's not a stretch at all to think Maxey can be just as good as Sexton is now in a couple of years. If Maxey got the green light on a terrible team like Sexton has, he could put up Sexton type numbers right now.


Sure but Sexton was trash his rookie year, like many rookies are, and then he adjusted and progressively became very good (at scoring at least), a progression which happens to few players. It seems to me obviously goofy to conclude that Maxey will be at least as good as Sexton on the basis that a) he kinda sorta plays like Sexton (i.e. fast) and b) they were both not very good as rookies. There's a ton of thing missing there.

Maybe I'm missing a frame of reference here--do you all think that there are hundreds of scorers in the NBA could score 25ppg at average efficiency in the NBA across a whole season if they were given like 18 shot per game?
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 49,040
And1: 15,800
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#765 » by 76ciology » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:16 am

HotelVitale wrote:
Arsenal wrote: Tyrese Maxey's age 20 season was better than Collin Sexton's age 20 season on a per possession basis. The only reason Maxey didn't get huge minutes is because we are a title contender while the Cavs were total trash. It's not a stretch at all to think Maxey can be just as good as Sexton is now in a couple of years. If Maxey got the green light on a terrible team like Sexton has, he could put up Sexton type numbers right now.


Sure but Sexton was trash his rookie year, like many rookies are, and then he adjusted and progressively became very good (at scoring at least), a progression which happens to few players. It seems to me obviously goofy to conclude that Maxey will be at least as good as Sexton on the basis that a) he kinda sorta plays like Sexton (i.e. fast) and b) they were both not very good as rookies. There's a ton of thing missing there.

Maybe I'm missing a frame of reference here--do you all think that there are hundreds of scorers in the NBA could score 25ppg at average efficiency in the NBA across a whole season if they were given like 18 shot per game?


Not 25ppg but maybe around 20-22ppg.

Another guy is Immanuel Quickley.
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 34,972
And1: 15,042
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#766 » by Kobblehead » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:55 am

I think the key is to identify guys with the right scoring skillset and then give a green light to them. Maxey's skillset is an elite slasher and a strong mid-range creator. He's a guy who you give the green light to. If he ever develops the three, he's an instant offensive star.
Madd Squabbles
Sophomore
Posts: 111
And1: 34
Joined: Jun 27, 2008

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#767 » by Madd Squabbles » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:17 pm

BNelley24 wrote:The only thing I hope Maxey continues to improve is his shot release. It is still a bit too low and in front of his head. Just my random fan opinion, but he should get his release a bit higher. He pushes the ball too much. If he develops a consistent 3 pointer he’ll be an all-star. Depending on playing time I think he’ll be a 12-14ppg guy this year, and then take the jump to 18-20+ year 3


This is how Steph Curry shoots. A couple of years ago I changed my jump shot to something that resembles Curry. I looked at lots of Curry jump shot instructional videos and its the prefered jump shot for shorter players now. Trey Young has the same form as well. Its more of a one motion push shot using your legs to generate power. It really helped my jump shot. I went from crappy to pretty decent in one Summer.
User avatar
Arsenal
RealGM
Posts: 11,564
And1: 6,415
Joined: Jun 05, 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#768 » by Arsenal » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:22 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
Arsenal wrote: Tyrese Maxey's age 20 season was better than Collin Sexton's age 20 season on a per possession basis. The only reason Maxey didn't get huge minutes is because we are a title contender while the Cavs were total trash. It's not a stretch at all to think Maxey can be just as good as Sexton is now in a couple of years. If Maxey got the green light on a terrible team like Sexton has, he could put up Sexton type numbers right now.


Sure but Sexton was trash his rookie year, like many rookies are, and then he adjusted and progressively became very good (at scoring at least), a progression which happens to few players. It seems to me obviously goofy to conclude that Maxey will be at least as good as Sexton on the basis that a) he kinda sorta plays like Sexton (i.e. fast) and b) they were both not very good as rookies. There's a ton of thing missing there.

Maybe I'm missing a frame of reference here--do you all think that there are hundreds of scorers in the NBA could score 25ppg at average efficiency in the NBA across a whole season if they were given like 18 shot per game?


You're missing a lot and I don't care to educate you considering your perspective.

No I don't think there are hundreds of scorers who could do it. Absurd straw man and mischaracterization of my argument to justify your pessimism.

Open your eyes. Maxey is the real deal. He's not another JAG.
Madd Squabbles
Sophomore
Posts: 111
And1: 34
Joined: Jun 27, 2008

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#769 » by Madd Squabbles » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:28 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
kuclas wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:Fellas, Sexton just averaged 24+ ppg on solid efficiency, Maxey averaged 8 on meh efficiency. I get that if you squint there are some similarities but let the guy be a decent rotation player first before deciding who or what he is.
Sexton is a better player right now. He’s a better shooter as well.

But how much more is sexton really when adjusted for age/experience and minutes played as well as being the number 1 option than maxey.

I agree. We need to get maxey more minutes. See what he can do. But the kid was a 5 star recruit for a reason. Maxey is already a good free throw shooter which usually translate to good 3 point shooting. Plus maxey on rookie contract.


I mean, I'm all for optimism but, no, it's not the expected course for someone to shoot from 8ppg as a rookie to 25ppg two years later. That obviously almost never happens. And like 30 people are 5 star recruits every year, most of em don't come anywhere close to being decent NBA players, let alone scoring 25ppg.

I'm excited for this season and following Maxey's progression in it, just think it doesn't do anyone any good to not appreciate how difficult it is to be good in the NBA. It's a big achievement if Maxey becomes a solid score-first 7th man soon and he'll have to make real and sustained improvements to get there. To go beyond that will be very impressive and I want to be able to give him fair props if he does do it.


I don't disagree with you but I believe if you switched the teams and situations for both players their averages and efficiency would be a little closer. If Maxey was the number one option for the Cavs he puts up way more than 8 ppg and if Sexton came off the bench and played Maxey's minutes he's not scoring 24 ppg. I believe if you measure them doing the same role their scoring would be a lot closer. I could very easily see Maxey averaging 18 - 20 ppg for the Cavs as a #1 option last year.
rzzzzz
Analyst
Posts: 3,640
And1: 1,156
Joined: Feb 21, 2015
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#770 » by rzzzzz » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:34 pm

No question that Maxey is a natural born scorer, who as the talent, intelligence and motivation to add solid defense and probably a workable outside shot. But is he point guard material? I wouldn’t rule him out, but it doesn’t seem to be in his DNA. I really want us to keep Maxey, but I wish we could add a young, pure pg as well. I really like Halliburton, if the Kings are actually interested in Ben.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 34,972
And1: 15,042
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#771 » by Kobblehead » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:52 pm

I think the need for an actual PG can be eradicated as long as you're fielding guys that can dribble-pass-shoot at the 1-2-3.
LordCovington33
Analyst
Posts: 3,241
And1: 2,783
Joined: Nov 15, 2016
   

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#772 » by LordCovington33 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:05 am

Kobblehead wrote:18.8 ppg per-36.

There's a very easy path to a PPG explosion for Maxey with a starter role.

I cringe whenever i see per 36, as other variables come into play with increased minutes. He’s a nice prospect, but see him as a coming-off-the-bench guy for a team with Championship aspirations.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 49,040
And1: 15,800
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#773 » by 76ciology » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:02 am

Kobblehead wrote:I think the need for an actual PG can be eradicated as long as you're fielding guys that can dribble-pass-shoot at the 1-2-3.


Yup. Personally, I dont think its ideal to have an actual PG in today’s NBA.

These days its better to have multiple scorers who got good bball IQ to know when to pass.

Nowadays its fast pace flow offense with the offense causing chaos that defense having a hard time to read and react. Warriors/Spurs type offense is really the ideal offense in today’s basketball.

But in the end its really about what the cards the basketball god will hand over to you.
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 49,040
And1: 15,800
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#774 » by 76ciology » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:12 am

Why can’t Maxey replace Jimmy’s role on our “run it back” squad?

Couldn’t Maxey replace Jimmy and Seth replace JJ?

I think we still need a bigger sample size to be certain but I say Maxey is capable of providing Jimmy’s production on our team in the future. Maybe this season, maybe next season?

Maxey will be a better shooter and PnR player than Jimmy.

Seth or Isaiah Joe has to replace JJ’s production.

Then Milton has to stop drinking plant based protein shake.
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
User avatar
stormi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,299
And1: 3,384
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: busy making chaeyoung fancams
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#775 » by stormi » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:15 am

76ciology wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:I think the need for an actual PG can be eradicated as long as you're fielding guys that can dribble-pass-shoot at the 1-2-3.


Yup. Personally, I dont think its ideal to have an actual PG in today’s NBA.

These days its better to have multiple scorers who got good bball IQ to know when to pass.

Nowadays its fast pace flow offense with the offense causing chaos that defense having a hard time to read and react.


I think ideally your guy is a 2 in 1. A Steph/CP3/Harden/Trae/Luka type. A guy that has total control of the half court. Makes the perfect reads when necessary, but is totally unguardable off the dribble as well.

I like Maxey a lot, but the showdown with Sharife Cooper highlighted his game on the spectrum. Not that Cooper won that matchup, but he was creating wide open looks for guys but also did his fair shares worth of scoring. Maxey's facilitation was quite primitive in comparison (usually swinging the ball around the perimeter), but he was straight attack and a complex bag of moves and finishes to counter whenever we'd go down.

That's why you need to put guys around Beal and Lavine and Booker. They're ceiling raisers, their value becomes apparent once you put that floor general beside them. Maxey is another good, but not great distributer of the ball.

I think #25 has left a bad taste in the mouth here in terms of evaluation of "playmaking" and we're pulling back a bit too dramatically as compensation. A guy that creates looks and scores is the most valuable non-Lebron archetype in the game. They drive the most floor tilting win-rates.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 49,040
And1: 15,800
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#776 » by 76ciology » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:39 am

stormi wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:I think the need for an actual PG can be eradicated as long as you're fielding guys that can dribble-pass-shoot at the 1-2-3.


Yup. Personally, I dont think its ideal to have an actual PG in today’s NBA.

These days its better to have multiple scorers who got good bball IQ to know when to pass.

Nowadays its fast pace flow offense with the offense causing chaos that defense having a hard time to read and react.


I think ideally your guy is a 2 in 1. A Steph/CP3/Harden/Trae/Luka type. A guy that has total control of the half court. Makes the perfect reads when necessary, but is totally unguardable off the dribble as well.

I like Maxey a lot, but the showdown with Sharife Cooper highlighted his game on the spectrum. Not that Cooper won that matchup, but he was creating wide open looks for guys but also did his fair shares worth of scoring. Maxey's facilitation was quite primitive in comparison (usually swinging the ball around the perimeter), but he was straight attack and a complex bag of moves and finishes to counter whenever we'd go down.

That's why you need to put guys around Beal and Lavine and Booker. They're ceiling raisers, their value becomes apparent once you put that floor general beside them. Maxey is another good, but not great distributer of the ball.

I think #25 has left a bad taste in the mouth here in terms of evaluation of "playmaking" and we're pulling back a bit too dramatically as compensation. A guy that creates looks and scores is the most valuable non-Lebron archetype in the game. They drive the most floor tilting win-rates.


Im thinking more like the Bucks where Jrue, Middleton and Giannis are smart enough to know when to pass and also be able to score. It’s similar to the old Spurs squad that I believe what Kobble would like to do if we dont trade for Lillard.

Its a very likely setup when your franchise player is a big. Where as if you have a guy like Doncic or Harden, what you need is a roll man like Ayton or Capela than a guy like Embiid.
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
User avatar
stormi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,299
And1: 3,384
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: busy making chaeyoung fancams
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#777 » by stormi » Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:16 am

76ciology wrote:
stormi wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Yup. Personally, I dont think its ideal to have an actual PG in today’s NBA.

These days its better to have multiple scorers who got good bball IQ to know when to pass.

Nowadays its fast pace flow offense with the offense causing chaos that defense having a hard time to read and react.


I think ideally your guy is a 2 in 1. A Steph/CP3/Harden/Trae/Luka type. A guy that has total control of the half court. Makes the perfect reads when necessary, but is totally unguardable off the dribble as well.

I like Maxey a lot, but the showdown with Sharife Cooper highlighted his game on the spectrum. Not that Cooper won that matchup, but he was creating wide open looks for guys but also did his fair shares worth of scoring. Maxey's facilitation was quite primitive in comparison (usually swinging the ball around the perimeter), but he was straight attack and a complex bag of moves and finishes to counter whenever we'd go down.

That's why you need to put guys around Beal and Lavine and Booker. They're ceiling raisers, their value becomes apparent once you put that floor general beside them. Maxey is another good, but not great distributer of the ball.

I think #25 has left a bad taste in the mouth here in terms of evaluation of "playmaking" and we're pulling back a bit too dramatically as compensation. A guy that creates looks and scores is the most valuable non-Lebron archetype in the game. They drive the most floor tilting win-rates.


Im thinking more like the Bucks where Jrue, Middleton and Giannis are smart enough to know when to pass and also be able to score. It’s similar to the old Spurs squad that I believe what Kobble would like to do if we dont trade for Lillard.

Its a very likely setup when your franchise player is a big. Where as if you have a guy like Doncic or Harden, what you need is a roll man like Ayton or Capela than a guy like Embiid.


That Bucks squad is good. That's the win by committee approach surrounding a star. The Raptors team was the same way having Kawhi be the go-to scorer insulated by strong defenders and scorers (Lowry/Pascal/FVV/Gasol/Norm/Green). The Bucks had a deep roster surrounding their star with guys that could get a bucket on command and defend really well (Middleton/Jrue/Lopez/Tucker/Connaughton/Portis). That was the Embiid surrounded by (Simmons/Butler/Harris/Redick) approach that almost won us the chip in 2019. Our depth wasn't anywhere near comparable however. You could go on and on listing impact players for those two championship rosters. Without Donte Divincenzo or OG Anunoby who both missed the entire playoffs. Our team fell apart without Danny Green and was rotating Mike Scott and Greg Monroe as serious bench players.

There isn't a specific blueprint to win a championship, there are multiple ways, for sure. I think it still boils down to:

a) Having a superstar surrounded by a mega deep team, or b) Going all in on two superstars surrounded by roleplayers - like the Lebron/Davis Lakers or the Booker/Paul Suns that almost got it done.

Identifying this roster, with this putrid and inconsistent bench, the easiest pathway I see to a championship is pairing Embiid with a co-star, and then selling off Tobias for multiple players that can knock down shots and defend. Ideally it was Harden/Embiid. And now we're scouring for alternatives.
Madd Squabbles
Sophomore
Posts: 111
And1: 34
Joined: Jun 27, 2008

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#778 » by Madd Squabbles » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:04 pm

rzzzzz wrote:No question that Maxey is a natural born scorer, who as the talent, intelligence and motivation to add solid defense and probably a workable outside shot. But is he point guard material? I wouldn’t rule him out, but it doesn’t seem to be in his DNA. I really want us to keep Maxey, but I wish we could add a young, pure pg as well. I really like Halliburton, if the Kings are actually interested in Ben.


Maxey is a scoring guard. Some teams need point guards and some need scoring guards. It depends on the makeup of the team. I personally believe that the Sixers need more of a scoring guard than a traditional point guard like let's say a Rondo. I believe the Sixers need a point guard that puts pressure on the defense to take some of the scoring load off Embiid and Harris. I believe in time Maxey will learn to distribute at a league-average level but it's his scoring that we really need. Especially late in games.
rzzzzz
Analyst
Posts: 3,640
And1: 1,156
Joined: Feb 21, 2015
 

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#779 » by rzzzzz » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:58 pm

Madd Squabbles wrote:
Maxey is a scoring guard. Some teams need point guards and some need scoring guards. It depends on the makeup of the team. I personally believe that the Sixers need more of a scoring guard than a traditional point guard like let's say a Rondo. I believe the Sixers need a point guard that puts pressure on the defense to take some of the scoring load off Embiid and Harris. I believe in time Maxey will learn to distribute at a league-average level but it's his scoring that we really need. Especially late in games.


I think Embiid really liked Fultz, until he broke his orbital, because Fultz had that interaction that caters to big guys. That was his natural talent even if he hadn’t busted his shooting arm. I’m all for Maxey working out, but unless we trade for a natural point guard, I hope that Maxey can learn the position. Jrue would be a good role model.
DCasey91
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,737
And1: 2,397
Joined: Dec 15, 2020
   

Re: Welcome Tyrese Maxey! 

Post#780 » by DCasey91 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:46 pm

Maxey is a scorer first and foremost. Not a shooter, a scorer.

He is also not a PG nor a great defender which lowers his overall value as an archetype.

So the ideal backcourt would be to pair him with a player that plays D and can shoot threes and dish out 7+ assists.

Think Kyle Lowry but younger. With how the kids are being brought up there’s not many around nowadays.

Unfortunately Springer doesn’t fit that mold.

Cooper is a lot closer imo to what the pairing should be like. He has all the traits to be a stud PG.

I’m fine for doing whatever duo it is but it has to compliment each other well enough.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers