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Welcome Isaiah Joe

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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#21 » by phillynative » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:16 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
stormi wrote:
phillynative wrote:Isnt he just another skinny project shooter like furkan. Or can he be better because he is a better athlete and defender? Will barton?

Can he put on some more muscle? The last i heard he is up to 180 pounds .


I love this high end comparison


Barton was a textbook athletic slasher who developed a good enough jumper, Joe is a much smaller shooter who might maybe maybe develop a driving game. Not seeing the comp there.

I do think Joe is basically a project shooter, nothing wrong with that. Fine with getting a decent one of those for nothing and having them be our 11th-12th man while we gauge his potential. If he becomes last year’s Furkan in a year or two, that’s great.


Yesh i know they have different games but i was compaing their body type/frame.
The hope that his body type wont deter him from lasting in the NBA. He is smaller than i thought at only 6'3 but atleast that makes his weight a wee bit less concerning seeing as he is not 6'5 , 6'6 wing i initially thought.

I saw some landry shamet and afernee simons comparisons which makes since except they have some combo guard ability.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#22 » by elchengue20 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:21 pm

Saw some highlights. Looks like a steal for a late 2nd.

Tremendous shooter and has decent size to make it work in the NBA.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#23 » by stormi » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 pm

Joe was pretty much in the 90th percentile both college seasons in production off the dribble under a system that wanted him shooting 3's at a historic rate.

I have no doubt that he has creator potential. He's athletic, and the details about his shot are excellent. Working on his body is priority #1 atm.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#24 » by LloydFree » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:44 am

He has a beautiful stroke, so I'm optimistic. He's likely a legit shooter. I'm not sure about anything else though.

His FTrate is non existent and I don't like his extremely low assist numbers from the guard spot. He gets his share of steals, so that's good.

College indicators look like Danny Green or Wayne Ellington. Either outcome would be great for a 2nd round pick.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#25 » by Arsenal » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:58 am

LloydFree wrote:He has a beautiful stroke, so I'm optimistic. He's likely a legit shooter. I'm not sure about anything else though.

His FTrate is non existent and I don't like his extremely low assist numbers from the guard spot. He gets his share of steals, so that's good.

College indicators look like Danny Green or Wayne Ellington. Either outcome would be great for a 2nd round pick.


I think you have to discount the low FTr due to his role of jacking nonstop iso 3's at a historic pace. When your 3PTr is a ridiculous .763, a .241 FTr isn't bad at all.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#26 » by Kobblehead » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:12 am

stormi wrote:Joe was pretty much in the 90th percentile both college seasons in production off the dribble


Taking two dribbles and pulling up from 30 feet while a defensive player is not even in a stance guarding you yet is not true scoring off the dribble so that data is extremely compromised. Joe can't slash to the rim or dribble his way into looks into the mid-range. He's a shooting specialist.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#27 » by BullyKing » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:15 am

Kobblehead wrote:
stormi wrote:Joe was pretty much in the 90th percentile both college seasons in production off the dribble


Taking two dribbles and pulling up from 30 feet while a defensive player is not even in a stance guarding you yet is not true scoring off the dribble so that data is extremely compromised. Joe can't slash to the rim or dribble his way into looks into the mid-range. He's a shooting specialist.


Does he have any handle at all? Could part of it be him being so skinny that he can't play through contact? If so, beefing him up seems more likely than learning to dribble.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#28 » by stormi » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:35 am

Kobblehead wrote:
stormi wrote:Joe was pretty much in the 90th percentile both college seasons in production off the dribble


Taking two dribbles and pulling up from 30 feet while a defensive player is not even in a stance guarding you yet is not true scoring off the dribble so that data is extremely compromised. Joe can't slash to the rim or dribble his way into looks into the mid-range. He's a shooting specialist.


A lot of players need a lot more than two dribbles to get open looks. The fact that he's being face guarded 35 feet away from the rim is another compliment.

A project pick with a super high ceiling.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#29 » by Kobblehead » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:55 am

BullyKing wrote:Does he have any handle at all? Could part of it be him being so skinny that he can't play through contact? If so, beefing him up seems more likely than learning to dribble.

He appears to have some basic dribbling ability and lateral shiftiness, but I've haven't seem much video of him slashing to the bucket or getting to spots amongst defenders inside the arc with his dribble.

Almost every instance of him scoring off the dribble can be described as him putting the ball on the floor well beyond the arc and pulling up from three on the other side of a ball screen.

Maybe size plays into it somewhat. I suspect he just lacks the ability, altogether, to get by defenders on the ball and score off the dribble from multiple areas of the floor, though. Which is why I view him as a pure shooting specialist.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#30 » by LloydFree » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:02 pm

Joe seems to be able to handle the ball better than the shooting specialist the Celtics took in the lottery. Nesmith can shoot and has an NBA body, but he has 2 left feet. If Joe can get his body right, he'll be able to do some things better than Nesmith.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#31 » by SixthStreet » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:10 am

I think he's too slight to be anything but a complete turnstile on D and he's never going to be a good enough offensive player to offset it. I'd be pretty shocked if he ever got more than a cup of tea in the league. Looks like a G-leaguer for a bit and then to Euro scoring machine to me.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#32 » by Kobblehead » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:32 am

BTW, for those hoping for Joe to improve his game in the NBA.

He actually plateaued and outright regressed in a few ways from his freshman year to his sophomore year. Usually not a great sign.

After his freshman year, he looked like a pretty unique novelty 3&D prospect. However, he had a pretty crappy sophomore year. Defense fell off, offensive efficiency waned, no strides as a creator, and he never developed his passing trait at all. Just more jacking up a bunch of threes and diminished everywhere else.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#33 » by Kolkmania » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:45 am

Kobblehead wrote:BTW, for those hoping for Joe to improve his game in the NBA.

He actually plateaued and outright regressed in a few ways from his freshman year to his sophomore year. Usually not a great sign.

After his freshman year, he looked like a pretty unique novelty 3&D prospect. However, he had a pretty crappy sophomore year. Defense fell off, offensive efficiency waned, no strides as a creator, and he never developed his passing trait at all. Just more jacking up a bunch of threes and diminished everywhere else.


Hmm not sure about that. When you have a limited skill set (shooting is basically his one true skill) and you still have a usage rate of >24%, while playing 36 MPG, that's actually really impressive.

If he showed that he can be a decent defender in his freshman year, then why would he have lost that ability? Probably because he had to allocate his energy on the offensive end (in combination with playing 90% of the total amount of minutes).

That he struggled with creating his own shots/or others at an efficient rate is not alarming for me. He has a clear role in the NBA and that's running around screens/hand-offs and shoot the ball. He "just" needs to add 20 lbs to his frame, that might take a while.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#34 » by LloydFree » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:55 pm

Kolkmania wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:BTW, for those hoping for Joe to improve his game in the NBA.

He actually plateaued and outright regressed in a few ways from his freshman year to his sophomore year. Usually not a great sign.

After his freshman year, he looked like a pretty unique novelty 3&D prospect. However, he had a pretty crappy sophomore year. Defense fell off, offensive efficiency waned, no strides as a creator, and he never developed his passing trait at all. Just more jacking up a bunch of threes and diminished everywhere else.


Hmm not sure about that. When you have a limited skill set (shooting is basically his one true skill) and you still have a usage rate of >24%, while playing 36 MPG, that's actually really impressive.

If he showed that he can be a decent defender in his freshman year, then why would he have lost that ability? Probably because he had to allocate his energy on the offensive end (in combination with playing 90% of the total amount of minutes).

That he struggled with creating his own shots/or others at an efficient rate is not alarming for me. He has a clear role in the NBA and that's running around screens/hand-offs and shoot the ball. He "just" needs to add 20 lbs to his frame, that might take a while.

He also played through some knee issues most of the season. That likely had a negative effect on his defense.
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Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#35 » by ankle420breaker » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:21 pm

He seems adept at moving off the ball and doesn't need much room to get his shot off. Appears to play grounded without forcing anything.

I could see him being a James Jones'ish kind of player.

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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#36 » by Kobblehead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:32 am

Kolkmania wrote:Probably because he had to allocate his energy on the offensive end (in combination with playing 90% of the total amount of minutes).

I have a problem here because I think he plays the most passive, non-taxing style of offense I've ever seen from a team-leading scorer so I can't see how that could be the case.

The big minutes thing and the possible injury thing that Lloyd brought up makes sense. I can't see how the playstyle would ever sap his energy, though.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#37 » by stormi » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:11 am

LloydFree wrote:
Kolkmania wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:BTW, for those hoping for Joe to improve his game in the NBA.

He actually plateaued and outright regressed in a few ways from his freshman year to his sophomore year. Usually not a great sign.

After his freshman year, he looked like a pretty unique novelty 3&D prospect. However, he had a pretty crappy sophomore year. Defense fell off, offensive efficiency waned, no strides as a creator, and he never developed his passing trait at all. Just more jacking up a bunch of threes and diminished everywhere else.


Hmm not sure about that. When you have a limited skill set (shooting is basically his one true skill) and you still have a usage rate of >24%, while playing 36 MPG, that's actually really impressive.

If he showed that he can be a decent defender in his freshman year, then why would he have lost that ability? Probably because he had to allocate his energy on the offensive end (in combination with playing 90% of the total amount of minutes).

That he struggled with creating his own shots/or others at an efficient rate is not alarming for me. He has a clear role in the NBA and that's running around screens/hand-offs and shoot the ball. He "just" needs to add 20 lbs to his frame, that might take a while.

He also played through some knee issues most of the season. That likely had a negative effect on his defense.


on his entire game, and then he got surgery and arkansas lost a bunch of games

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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#38 » by Kolkmania » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:12 am

Kobblehead wrote:
Kolkmania wrote:Probably because he had to allocate his energy on the offensive end (in combination with playing 90% of the total amount of minutes).

I have a problem here because I think he plays the most passive, non-taxing style of offense I've ever seen from a team-leading scorer so I can't see how that could be the case.

The big minutes thing and the possible injury thing that Lloyd brought up makes sense. I can't see how the playstyle would ever sap his energy, though.


I was just trying to guess some causes, point is that if he's shown to be a decent defender (on college level) before, why would he have lost this ability? It's different than a hot shooting streak that might fool you into thinking someone is a good shooter.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#39 » by Kobblehead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:02 pm

I don't know, that's where my distrust in him lies. Joe plateaued across the board offensively and outright regressed defensively from his freshman to sophomore year. I wouldn't have even taken Joe. Skylar Mays went the pick right behind him and is likely going to be the steal of the draft. I think this was a bad pick.
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Re: Welcome Isaiah Joe 

Post#40 » by Monix » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:52 pm

I think the mid-season knee surgery needs to be factored in with Joe - there were 3 weeks between the Alabama game and his return vs Missouri. I haven't seen when it is believed that the injury occurred, just that it got to the point where they did the surgery after the Bama game.

After his return his 2pt attempts were down, rebounds were down, and fouls were up - to me these are indicators that his movement was compromised.

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